skatingforums
On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: jlspink22 on November 18, 2014, 04:44:44 PM
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Can some explain to me the difference between free skate levels 1-6 via the basic skills program and the pre-preliminary/preliminary/junior etc levels of competition? Are they two different tracks? Or Do you finish FS1-6 first? Please enlighten me.
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Most skaters will complete the basic skills curriculum before moving on to standard track testing and competition (actually most move on to compete in "no test" for a while beyond FS6 if it is offered at non-qualifying comps). Despite the test elements being of a much lower level, most skaters in pre-pre aren't competitive without an axel, some competitions offer additional pre-pre categories (that are not test track) to exclude the axel, but that really depends on your region - some have more skaters than others, making those level breakdowns make more sense.
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But once you get to freestyle, then private lessons and coaching become more important ... meaning the group type lessons for freestyle seem more casual/self paced? Freestyle is still a good 6 months to a year away for us...depending in how fast she perfects the rest of basic skills.
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There is a general "Freeskate" class at our rink that covers levels 1-6. The number of instructors increases as the enrollment goes up, but still, there aren't enough skaters to separate everyone. Every kid in the class is working on at least their pre-pre test (some are up to pre-juv), and are in the class simply because classes are a cost effective way of getting more ice time and instruction.
The class covers transitions, jumps, spins, and is tailored to the students in the class. For example, students fresh out of basic skills start working on real spin entrances and exits, the beginning skaters can be working on basic camel spins, the ones in the middle on back camels, and the more advanced students on flying entrances and variations. It's a fun set up.
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Right now we skate privates/joined the club at the rink closest to my house. That rink offers basic 1-8 and freestyle 1-6 at separate times.
We don't take group basic lessons there because we had started at a different rink that was more relaxed and DD got used to the place...but the FS groups at this other rink have more casual learners, prompting my ?.
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Under the US Figure Skating Basic Skills program, the Basic Levels 1 - 8 teach the general all-purpose learn to skate skills. They serve as an introduction to skating, slanted towards figure skating skills. Freeskate 1 - 6 serve as the foundation for figure skating and completion of those levels prepares the skater for entry into the standard competitive test structure which begins with the Pre Preliminary Moves and Free Skating tests. The Competitive Test Track structure is an alternate path to USFS's Well Balanced Program competition format - the one that eventually leads to National Championships. CTT has stricter limits for the elements that may be done in the program than the WBP standards.
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Looks like there's enough tests to last a lifetime haha.
I'm just looking forward to her getting out of basic skills......about 60% there! Yeah!
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My rink doesn't offer specific group lessons for FS 1-6, instead we have the regular basic skills classes up through 5. Once a skater passes B5, we offer two group lessons called Bridge Basics and Beyond the Basics - BB is B6-8 and BTB is the FS levels although they don't follow the FS 1-6 curriculum at that point. Once a skater is at B6 or higher they can participate in our ice theater program so we draw kids in that way. Usually by this point they have started with private lessons also. The two higher level lessons also have an off ice class as part of them and designated practice ice.
As far as competition, kids in my club usually do Basic Skills competitions through B6 or so and then switch over to the Beginner/High Beginner levels and move from there to either No Test or Pre-Pre test track, etc. Not many around here do the FS levels in competition.
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I'm replying to this old thread because I found it while trying to understand this very thing. My kids' coach was talking about having them skate at a competition that she thought had basic skills but actually only goes down to Beginner. I looked at the elements for Beginner and they can definitely handle them, but the last time they competed was at Basic 5, back in April. The coach thinks it's fine but even though the elements are fairly simple (half-rotation jumps, basic 1-foot spins) I was worried that the kids they'd be competing against will be way beyond their competitive abilities. Then I saw CaraSkates' note that most kids in her club switch over to beginner after B6 or so, which would be pretty much what my kids would be doing. What I don't understand is why, when the required skills for Beginner are lower than, say, FS6. It's confusing and I would love more insight if someone has it!
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beginner non test are all the same, different words at different rinks/areas of the country. When my Novice skater was at that level we just had basic 8 and then non or no tests.
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Here's how it was explained to me, for the region I live in:
FS 1-6 levels at competitions are there for kids who are recreational skaters who are probably skating once or twice a week. Judges are mostly focusing just on the required elements and less on all the rest.
Either Limited Beginner, then No Test or Beginner, High Beginner, then No Test events (depending upon competition) are before taking the MIF and freestyle Pre-Pre tests for kids heading for a more competitive route. Kids competing in these levels are generally taking multiple privates a week and are pretty serious about skating. Judges expect to see connecting steps, musicality, good posture, glide, flow, overall good presentation, etc.
Now it gets more confusing, you choose test track or well-balanced after taking your first tests.
Test track is aligned with the elements passed in the tests.
Well-balanced is more advanced then the elements needed to pass.
There is a big difference in the quality of skating, even though both events require the same set of tests. Take spins, for example:
Test track: two spins of a different nature, one position only, no change foot, no flying entry
Well-balanced: two spins of a different nature, may change feet and/or position, may start with a fly
You'll see kids in the test track who have just learned a sit and camel spin compared to a kid who may start with a flying entry into a sit with multiple variations, change foot to back sit.
Qualifying events at regionals are well-balanced, not test track. You can skate test track as a non-qualifying event but you won't go on after regionals even if you win your final round. You can switch between test track and well-balanced throughout your skating career, but you can't enter a test track event and a well-balanced event at the same competition.
I don't think they could make it more confusing if they tried! It is helpful to watch a competition to see the difference. My dd has skated test track and has a friend in well-balanced at the same level, her friend is skating at a much higher level.
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Either Limited Beginner, then No Test or Beginner, High Beginner, then No Test events (depending upon competition) are before taking the MIF and freestyle Pre-Pre tests for kids heading for a more competitive route. Kids competing in these levels are generally taking multiple privates a week and are pretty serious about skating. Judges expect to see connecting steps, musicality, good posture, glide, flow, overall good presentation, etc.
Great job explaining! Most competitions around here (South Atlantic region) seem to offer Beginner, High Beg, No Test. The kids at my rink who compete in those levels are either working on or passed at least Pre-Pre MIF. The No Test skaters are more likely to be working/passed on Prelim moves or the first couple dances. And like I said before, these skaters likely did a few competitions in the basic 2-6 levels before moving up to Beginner.
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I did not know that you could pass a MIF test and still skate at a lower level. I thought once you passed a test you were stuck at competing at that level, or does just the freestyle test count? And can you keep progressing through MIF tests without taking the freestyle tests? I guess it makes sense since the MIF tests seem much easier then the skills necessary to do well in competitions for the same level, especially well-balanced events. As soon as I feel like I sort of have a grasp of all this figure skating stuff, I realize I really don't - LOL.
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Yes the testing is quite separate! In our area the skaters usually have their Moves a couple of levels ahead of their Freeskate or Dance tests (remember not all people who skate Moves also do Freestyle - they are also required for Dance competition as well!
I think the confusion lies in the fact that the test level requirements are so far below what is actually done in competition - Axel at Pre-Pre? You don't need it for the test but if you want to be competitive you have to have it!!
We have long wondered why they don't change the test requirements! It seems ridiculous that on a Senior FS test you only need a single axel (although you can also do a double or a triple!) - BUT I think the thinking is that if they made the test requirements harder skaters would get frustrated and quit and we'd like to keep skaters in the sport!
It is confusing. There is a lot of cross-over (so to speak) between the levels - especially at the lower levels. After a while it might start to make sense - or once the skater is past Preliminary Test then the whole FS level in Basic Skills becomes a moot point.
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The tests are a goal by themselves. They do not exist to serve competitions. I believe the figure and free dance tests are irrelevant to competition. For competitions, they prevent skaters from dropping down a level, which would be unfair (assuming the skater is improving).
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Thank you for these comments! It's definitely a little clearer to me now, and it's also helpful to know it truly is confusing to other people and I'm not just clueless.
I'm still not 100% clear on whether they should compete at beginner or not, but I feel like I have more background to inform my conversations with their coach. I do trust her judgment and know that she wouldn't throw them in a situation in which they'd be destined to fail.
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They do not exist to serve competitions. I believe the figure and free dance tests are irrelevant to competition.
Figure tests are irrelevant to competition BUT the Free Dance tests will determine which level a dancer can compete (in dance).
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I read a while ago that only 1% of all skaters pass their Senior FS test, so to make it harder would mean that less than 1% ever pass
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Figure tests are irrelevant to competition BUT the Free Dance tests will determine which level a dancer can compete (in dance).
You are right. Free dance tests are only ignored in the adult competition rules.
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I read a while ago that only 1% of all skaters pass their Senior FS test, so to make it harder would mean that less than 1% ever pass
What is so odd about that is SR test only has double lutz. I dont understand why even if you arent competive you dont finish your tests. Its not hard.
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What is so odd about that is SR test only has double lutz. I dont understand why even if you arent competive you dont finish your tests. Its not hard.
- It is primarily a test of endurance. For men senior is twice the length of the juvenile test.
- Not that many skaters can do double lutz.
- Not everyone wants to be stuck competing at the senior level.
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It is true it is an endurance test. A lot of skaters can "Do" a double lutz in isolation but put it in the program with music and nerves and the pressure of getting the Senior test - it is hard.
Being "stuck" in Senior is an interesting point - you have no where else to go and yet you are not competitive against the Gracie Golds, etc. of the world.
But you have finished your tests!
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Being "stuck" in Senior is an interesting point - you have no where else to go and yet you are not competitive against the Gracie Golds, etc. of the world.
Not even just that, but you are required to have a double axel and at least one or two triples - otherwise your elements in your short are called as invalid. I have friends that finished out their tests because they were graduating high school, but still skate and still want to compete. But they're stuck because they don't have a double axel, and aren't even thinking about triples. But, they also wanted to finish their tests while they could, before life got in the way.
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The friends who want to compete and finish their tests can skate test track. Also, collegiate skating is a little different in terms of rules if the persons you talk about are nearing college age.
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The friends who want to compete and finish their tests can skate test track. Also, collegiate skating is a little different in terms of rules if the persons you talk about are nearing college age.
Test track isn't very big here, and they would have no competition. At least one of them did skate at collegiate championships (there are no intercollegiate teams in my state, so that is out), which did relax the short program rules on triples. However, that's only one competition a year. If a person would like to compete at local competitions in well-balanced, they generally have to accept they are getting no or few points for jumps in the short.
Okay, sorry for the massive thread drift!
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It is true it is an endurance test. A lot of skaters can "Do" a double lutz in isolation but put it in the program with music and nerves and the pressure of getting the Senior test - it is hard.
Being "stuck" in Senior is an interesting point - you have no where else to go and yet you are not competitive against the Gracie Golds, etc. of the world.
But you have finished your tests!
Get a reskate on the lutz if they cant do it in program.
I dont agree with Nick, I think there are a fair number of skaters that can do a double lutz.
It is a longer program but it isnt as hard as a competive program at most levels.
I agree with being stuck at SR . One reason my daughter isnt moving up this year . :angel:
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Get a reskate on the lutz if they cant do it in program.
I dont agree with Nick, I think there are a fair number of skaters that can do a double lutz.
It is a longer program but it isnt as hard as a competive program at most levels.
I agree with being stuck at SR . One reason my daughter isnt moving up this year . :angel:
They can get a re-skate on the double lutz if they miss it in the program IF there are no more than two elements that need to be re-skated for any reason and IF they judges think the test will pass if the elements are clean). Then they "just" have to get it in isolation - still not an easy task for a lot of skaters but it is do-able.
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They can get a re-skate on the double lutz if they miss it in the program IF there are no more than two elements that need to be re-skated for any reason and IF they judges think the test will pass if the elements are clean). Then they "just" have to get it in isolation - still not an easy task for a lot of skaters but it is do-able.
My point was I am surprised that only 1 percent of kids who start in LTS go on to pass SR. Double lutz isn't hard for skaters who have all their doubles, its not a double axle or a triple.
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What is so odd about that is SR test only has double lutz. I dont understand why even if you arent competive you dont finish your tests. Its not hard.
I've seen a lot of skaters struggle to pass the MIF component of the test structure, more so than the FS tests. I've even seen skaters struggle to pass their Junior MIF who could probably easily pass the Senior FS test if the moves weren't a requirement. Usually they get stuck on one skill (like the loops, or choctaws) and may even be able to perform them fine day to day, but it just doesn't happen for them in a test session.
Most of the time competitive skaters do choose to try to "finish out" their tests towards the end of HS, even if aiming for senior nationals is not in their future.
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I've seen a lot of skaters struggle to pass the MIF component of the test structure, more so than the FS tests. I've even seen skaters struggle to pass their Junior MIF who could probably easily pass the Senior FS test if the moves weren't a requirement. Usually they get stuck on one skill (like the loops, or choctaws) and may even be able to perform them fine day to day, but it just doesn't happen for them in a test session.
Most of the time competitive skaters do choose to try to "finish out" their tests towards the end of HS, even if aiming for senior nationals is not in their future.
This is so true - those MITF are hard and that Jr test has gotten much harder I think!
It is nice when they finish up their tests - then you don't have a lot of that "if only" feeling - I have seen a few quit, go to college, etc. and then finish up but that is much harder I think.
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I saw this was bumped! As of now we are using freeskate classes for practice time. She almost has enough revolutions on her camel and sit spins and all of her single jumps minus a correct loop (although she can do it from a waltz go figure) and an axel. I don't think she will be ready for pre-pre until fall at least (she just turned 6 in Oct). Probably will skate low beginner? I feel like I live at the rink already...