rlichtefeld
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Posted: 08-20-2010, 03:30 PM
I'm all for them and have had several aha moments.
We've had Bobbe Shire (the Spin Doctor) come to our rinks a few different years. Each time she was able to give me some key points to keep in mind, and my spins did improve.
I've also attended the Oleg Vassiliev Adult Pairs weekend in Chicago 4 different times with 3 different partners, and I will definitely go back. He has his elite teams work with you on and off ice, and we've had many aha moments at these weekends.
Rob
RachelSk8er
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Posted: 08-20-2010, 04:17 PM
As a change of pace/something fun, could be good, but as others have said, it's probably not good to redirect your coaching money for a workshop/clinic. If you have the opportunity to go to a camp for a week and get regular lessons during that time from a big name coach, it's probably more worthwhile. I went to synchro camp for a week every summer in high school (and the senior level skaters were always coached by the big name coach at this camp). It was always a really good experience, we learned a lot and had a blast.
If I really wanted to, there are several big names in my area I could go get a lesson from. But in my opinion, my coach meets my needs and I really don't feel like I need to go take from Carol Heiss at twice the cost, as cool as that would be to say I got a lesson from her.
I would, however, kill to go to Dorothy Hamill's adult skater camp. Or get a lesson from her. <3 But I can't justify spending that much $$ for the camp. It's like $3,000.00....that's more than I pay my coach for an entire year's worth of lessons.
Skate@Delaware
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Posted: 08-20-2010, 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlichtefeld
I'm all for them and have had several aha moments.
We've had Bobbe Shire (the Spin Doctor) come to our rinks a few different years. Each time she was able to give me some key points to keep in mind, and my spins did improve.
I've also attended the Oleg Vassiliev Adult Pairs weekend in Chicago 4 different times with 3 different partners, and I will definitely go back. He has his elite teams work with you on and off ice, and we've had many aha moments at these weekends.
Rob
Bobbe was heading up the spin clinic-I was looking forward to it & hoping that it would help my spins as well. I can still go over and take a lesson, but it's a 2-hour drive each way.
I'd like to attend the Pairs Clinic as well but it's difficult to do anything while in school, and it will be a while before I have vacation built up when I finally have a job. My pair partner went 2 years ago and had a blast.
Basically, I go in order to skate with other adults and to network. If I get anything useful out of it, that's a bonus.
Query
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Posted: 08-21-2010, 08:47 AM
MOST COACHES ARE CELEBRITIES. Most competed at at least a regional level, maybe toured with a show too. They all work at a glamorous job, teaching people an elegant form of motion on ice. Ask your coach what they did, and do!
Many rinks and clubs run specialized group lesson classes, that fall outside the usual USFSA Basic 8 and ISI LTS/Freestyle curricula. Some are week-long, some are hourly multi-week classes, or have other schedules.
These classes often assume students are more seriously interested in learning than in most group lesson classes. The coaches can respond to what the students want to learn, because there is no external curricula. They focus on one skill, instead of barely touching on 5 or 10 different moves in an hour.
Many kids doing amazingly athletic things that I could never do, like double jumps, and amazing spins, who have never learned to skate on good edges (especially outside edges). They never get good crossovers (partly because of the edges), and many skate slowly. Obviously, their coaches must be very good at teaching jumps and spins, but I've talked to judges who pay attention to these edges and speed too. So a class on edges, and another on power skating, perhaps from an ice dance coach who focuses on those things, might be fun and helpful.
A big advantage of these classes is that they cost about what other group lessons cost/hour. Many rinks let you drop in on the first lesson for a nominal cost, so you can decide if it is what you want.
I've also taken a few ice dance clinics from a group of East European coaches. I could never quite understand the idea some earlier private coaches had tried to teach of swinging the leg forward while twisting the hip back. And I also misunderstood some of what is meant by an "open" torso. The clinic coaches explained it a different way: the hip and torso stay still. Leg swings and and rotations occur in the hip socket. The open torso position occurs because it stays still through most motions, while the leg rotates out to point the toe in the right direction. (These things may be unique to ice dance styling, and may not apply to freestyle - I don't know. It's not the most efficient way to move.) This was a complete revelation, that makes sense and provides a measure by which to determine if I am doing it right. They also explain a lot of things about off-ice training that I had missed elsewhere. These coaches might be considered celebrities, and spend most of their time teaching much better students than me - but they teach group lessons at a local rink.
I used to take lessons from another celebrity coach. Sometimes teaching a group lesson class (on edges, though the class was called ice dance) made him teach a skill more clearly than he had explained it to me in private lessons. He still teaches group lessons, but only to competitive kids - sigh.
If you love a local coach, you can switch, or take a few privates from him or her, which isn't practical with a traveling celebrity.
dreamnmusic
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Posted: 08-21-2010, 12:14 PM
I don't know about figure skating, but when I was in high school studying music seriously we used to have things called master classes which involved a professional from the community coming in and doing a mini-voice lesson with a student infront of some other students. We would also have speakers come in and give presentations sometimes about different things that were important to singing. It was always really valuable. We were told that any time you can get out and learn from someone, do it because everyone does things a little bit differently and no matter how good a coach (in this case they were talking voice coach) they don't know everything, and what they don't know someone else might. I always loved these because I learned more about singing every time I went. I mean, they all had varying degrees of usefulness but they were all useful in one way or another.
Another thing they told us to do a lot was to go to concerts, operas, musicals, what-ever we could get to to see professionals in action because even through observation you learn something. We used to have to go to a certain number of performances a year.
d b n y
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Posted: 08-21-2010, 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Query
MOST COACHES ARE CELEBRITIES. Most competed at at least a regional level, maybe toured with a show too. They all work at a glamorous job, teaching people an elegant form of motion on ice. Ask your coach what they did, and do!
Not in my 9 years experience coaching at 3 different rinks! I've seen lots of coaches from all over come and go. I would say that most coaches have passed the highest levels of testing in their disciplines and many have competed (most unsuccessfully) at Regionals and maybe even Sectionals. A few have competed at Nationals with some success and a few more have toured in shows. I hardly consider it a glamorous job, and it can be very hard work. Most skating schools require either teaching group lessons or paying a hefty commission on private lessons for coaching privileges, and some require both. Celebrity coaches, and even coaches with multiple gold's in testing are not always the best teachers. As I've said often, skating and coaching are two very different skills. I believe there are quite a few here who agree with that statement.
jjane45
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Posted: 08-21-2010, 03:03 PM
I agree d b n y. There is a Worlds gold medalist teaching at my rink, and many skaters avoid taking his group lessons at all costs. Skating and coaching are completely different animals.
Isk8NYC
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Posted: 08-21-2010, 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d b n y
As I've said often, skating and coaching are two very different skills. I believe there are quite a few here who agree with that statement.
ITA The most expensive skating coaches probably competed at elite levels, but that doesn't make them any better at teaching. It just means they have to charge more to break even or turn a profit.
While we're discussing it, there's a difference between teaching and coaching. Short encounters of the skating kind are basically instructional, although they sometimes include "coaching tips" in the form of mental preparation, dietary and training/planning classes.
Most of the coaches I respect have said to me over the years that becoming a good instructor or coach helps make them a better skater because they have to plan, understand and communicate.
Skittl1321
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Posted: 08-21-2010, 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Query
MOST COACHES ARE CELEBRITIES. Most competed at at least a regional level, maybe toured with a show too. They all work at a glamorous job, teaching people an elegant form of motion on ice. Ask your coach what they did, and do!
Competing at regionals or sectionals hardly makes one a celebrity, nor does touring in a show- though both show you were/are a good skater.
I think to be called a celebrity you need name recognition at least within your group (there are a heck of a lot of girls skating in shows whose names are unknown- they are great skaters, but not celebrities)- which means you probably need to be top 10 at nationals and have some international experience, and argueably name recognition to the general public (that's going to be a lot harder to come across.)
Query
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Posted: 08-22-2010, 04:22 PM
Gee, you folks have pretty high standards for celebrity! Also for glamor.
If you are known as one of the best local skaters or coaches, that is quite enough celebrity for me.
I agree that athletic skill and teaching ability are not exactly the same thing, and have met a few people with the former but not the latter, but for me, good skill is a requisite for good teaching.
What is the distinction between a teacher and coach?
phoenix
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Posted: 08-22-2010, 04:45 PM
Yeah, it's so glamorous to get up at 5:00 a.m. on a Saturday to stand on the ice for 3 hours!! I'm one of the few people on the planet who hates Saturdays....
--And I'm certainly no celebrity, but I'm a good low level coach.
jazzpants
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Posted: 08-22-2010, 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d b n y
As I've said often, skating and coaching are two very different skills. I believe there are quite a few here who agree with that statement.
Yup! My secondary coach is no celebrity and is the cheapest out of the 3 coaches I have, but she's probably the best bargain I've ever had. Not to say my other coaches aren't worth the money. I wouldn't take them if they weren't. AAMOF, my "celeb coach" admits that he's no better a coach than all the other coaches out there.
d b n y
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Posted: 08-22-2010, 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix
Yeah, it's so glamorous to get up at 5:00 a.m. on a Saturday to stand on the ice for 3 hours!! I'm one of the few people on the planet who hates Saturdays....
Count me in, and add Sundays too!
Isk8NYC
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Posted: 08-22-2010, 07:00 PM
Most of my coaching is late afternoon/evening, so I'm no glamour queen at that time of the day, having started work at 7am.
I do think that most workshops and seminars intended for instructors or coaches are good, so good that regular skaters should consider them as part of their own education plans.
Those events are usually well-planned since the attendees are knowledgeable and experienced in skating. The information is delivered in a very forward manner and networking is encouraged.
Skittl1321
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Posted: 08-22-2010, 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Query
What is the distinction between a teacher and coach?
A coach should be a good teacher, but needs to be a lot more- a much more personal relationship needs to form- they need to be a good motivator, a good planner (see into the future with where you might be going, and plan to take you there), a guide to the skating world, an advocate when necessary, etc.
An instructor should also be a good teacher, but they are much less personal. To me an instructor is usually the leader of a learn to skate group class, the coach (who 90% of the time is also an instructor) is primarily private lessons, or a group they put together of their own students.