skatingforums
On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: jumpingbeansmom on August 30, 2010, 09:32:28 AM
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:o
A good friend of my dd (the friend is 11)- has changed coaches. We have been told point blank from the parents 2 things.....the girl is looking for kinder gentler coaching, AND, they are going to split the family to train her for the Olympics. :o
Seriously, I was stunned into silence....not only do I not think this girl is Olympic material (she ONCE skated pre-juv in a local competition), but who SAYS at 11 they are going to train for the Olympics?? I mean, what are the chances even the best skaters are going to the Olympics?? Talk about high pressure...and then looking for gentler coaching to train for the Olympics?
I just nodded my head and said, good luck to you. Would you have done anything different???
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There's really nothing you can say in a situation like that. it's ill-advised, so do exactly what you did & just hope they will not do anything that destroys the family or the daughter's future, education-wise/financially etc. I've seen that happen & it's always a tragedy.
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The odds on getting to the Olympics are lower than winning Powerball. (That reminds me, gotta check those tickets.) Many parents think/say their kids are going to the Olympics even earlier - at 5 or 6 years old. I know of kids who were doing conditioning and weight training at 7 in preparation for finishing all the girl's doubles before puberty.
I wouldn't rule a skater out just because she's only 11. Sounds like the parents are committed to make the sacrifices and investments, so it's possible. Anytime someone says "is my daughter/son too old?" Johnny Weir's name comes up. Weir started skating at 12 and I'd say he's done incredibly well. However, there were probably a hundred other 12-year old boys who started that year and didn't stick with it or didn't find the right coach who brought out the best in him.
It really depends on the skater; maybe she resisted competitions because the coach was pushing too hard. The "kinder, gentler" approach may be just what she needs to overcome some anxiety issues or to encourage her with a different viewpoint. I hope the girl does well and the family stays intact.
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There is no way to predict who is going to be a top-notch skater (national, Olympic level), and being basically geeky and overly analytical, I've started mentally charting the trajectory of the skaters in our area. The "early stars" who got their doubles, etc, at age 8, landing axels at age 7-1/2 first try etc etc etc are not necessarily the ones who are now excelling. Many of our top level skaters, when they get to the competitive level, are often the kids who were lower in the rankings at the younger age. They may have started later; taken longer to develop; had different coaching philosophies at play; been injured; etc.
Talent ID is not a science, it's an art. It takes into account a range of things, including body type; interest; athleticism; personality; trainability; and musicality. It's hard to predict that in an 8 year old or 10 year old or 11 year old ... Also, at the lower levels, the focus seems to be on JUMPS and somewhat on spins, so the jumper gets the "ooh-wow" response, whereas skating is so much more. Thus, your 11-year-old who was never much at competitions may have been at the back of the pack for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to:
a) injury
b) staged development, with a coach who focussed on all skills and not just jumps
c) a coach who focusses on perfect singles and doesn't move on to doubles etc until technique is great; this leads to future quality doubles and triples, just takes longer
d) lack of focus on skating; i.e. may have been participating in other sports
Or a range of other factors. Of course, her parents may also be overly ambitious ... seen a lot of parents who are convinced their kid is going to the Olympics, when it's not likely on the cards; as long as they don't have a coach feeding it for personal reasons, it's just like the parents of the kids who are convinced that a scholarship to Harvard is what their kid should be ready for ... high goals are okay, as long as they don't result in personal misery later.
As for the gentler coaching thing ... coaching is a fit thing, and some kids really do excel with a gentle coach who will not succeed with a tough coach. Gentle doesn't mean weak. My kid's coach is tough, directive and brutal, and it works for him; other kids do not deal well with this coach, and are more successful with a gentler more suportive coach. Some of the gentlest coaches I know are the most exacting ... different kids respond to different coaches ... my son's coach would destroy my daughter's confidence, for example, but my daughter's gentle coach is still just as tough and rigorous, just with a different manner.
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I just nodded my head and said, good luck to you. Would you have done anything different???
oh yes ... the head nod and good luck wish is perfect. Every skating parent should perfect it. Actually, every parent should perfect it. Cuts down on stress, makes your life pleasanter, and makes everyone comfortable around you. You're supportive and nice. That's a good skating parent trait. A very very very good skating parent trait. Teach it to the skaters, and the dressing room also becomes a pleasanter place and less stressful for the skaters ...
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Or a range of other factors. Of course, her parents may also be overly ambitious ... seen a lot of parents who are convinced their kid is going to the Olympics, when it's not likely on the cards; as long as they don't have a coach feeding it for personal reasons, it's just like the parents of the kids who are convinced that a scholarship to Harvard is what their kid should be ready for ... high goals are okay, as long as they don't result in personal misery later.
This is my worry...the girl is not that tough, and easily upset and discouraged. I cannot imagine, at this juncture (not even qualifying level) saying out loud we are training for the Olympics...what a burden on the kid!
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This is my worry...the girl is not that tough, and easily upset and discouraged. I cannot imagine, at this juncture (not even qualifying level) saying out loud we are training for the Olympics...what a burden on the kid!
We always say that we are training for Nationals for my one kid. Not that we expect it, although it's not impossible - because if we said that we weren't training for and working towards Nationals, it would be seen as a sign of lack of confidence in the ability to get there. Different kids, different ways of managing their expectations and various neuroses; my other kid, we would never say something like that because of too much pressure which would be a problem. Fortunately, the two different coaches get their different manners of motivation. Which is why we love our coaches! ;D ;D ;D
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We always say that we are training for Nationals for my one kid. Not that we expect it, although it's not impossible - because if we said that we weren't training for and working towards Nationals, it would be seen as a sign of lack of confidence in the ability to get there. Different kids, different ways of managing their expectations and various neuroses; my other kid, we would never say something like that because of too much pressure which would be a problem. Fortunately, the two different coaches get their different manners of motivation. Which is why we love our coaches! ;D ;D ;D
THAT I can see...it is a more short term immediate goal-- I don't know, the Olympics at this juncture sounds like....well like someone else said Powerball.
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This is my worry...the girl is not that tough, and easily upset and discouraged. I cannot imagine, at this juncture (not even qualifying level) saying out loud we are training for the Olympics...what a burden on the kid!
Whenever parents start saying "WE" are doing this or that, is when I cringe and suspect parents who say those things of living their own childhood dreams through their kids.
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Whenever parents start saying "WE" are doing this or that, is when I cringe and suspect parents who say those things of living their own childhood dreams through their kids.
Good point...and to be fair, I cannot remember if they used 'we'. I don't think they did except maybe to see 'we' are training her for the Olympics...I mean, the parents do have some role right?? (money, time, sacrafice?)
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Depending on how long they've been in the skating world, and how many larger competitions they may or may not have seen, it could also be that they're really not aware of how very long a shot it is--and if the skater isn't a high enough level yet where it's gotten really really hard, they may not realize really what it takes. People on the outside don't realize that those Olympians represent the 1 millionth percentage of all skaters.
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Depending on how long they've been in the skating world, and how many larger competitions they may or may not have seen, it could also be that they're really not aware of how very long a shot it is--and if the skater isn't a high enough level yet where it's gotten really really hard, they may not realize really what it takes. People on the outside don't realize that those Olympians represent the 1 millionth percentage of all skaters.
That could be true.
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This makes me really, really mad. These kind of parents that use their kids to play out their little dream. Are these parents idiots? The girl can't even do a double axel (if I am correct, Juv is when double axels come in??) and they think she's going to be competing on the national scene in less than seven years? Did they even ask the poor girl? They're going to split her from the family! The only thing that's gonna come out of this is broken hearts, debt and destruction of the girl's future.
All over the internet you see this- just look at Yahoo!Answers. There are tons of questions "is it too late to start figure skating/go to the olympics?" etc. and the people answering say "no! anything's possible! go for it!" What is with this stupid obsession with the figure skating Olympians? People don't join the swim team or track team and say "Oh I wanna go to the Olympics."
/rant
Since people like this don't listen when told what a long shot it is, there's nothing you can do but exactly what you did. If they ask you if you think she can make it, politely say that it's not very likely because only about .0001% of skaters go to the Olympics.
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This makes me really, really mad. These kind of parents that use their kids to play out their little dream. Are these parents idiots? The girl can't even do a double axel (if I am correct, Juv is when double axels come in??) and they think she's going to be competing on the national scene in less than seven years? Did they even ask the poor girl? They're going to split her from the family! The only thing that's gonna come out of this is broken hearts, debt and destruction of the girl's future.
All over the internet you see this- just look at Yahoo!Answers. There are tons of questions "is it too late to start figure skating/go to the olympics?" etc. and the people answering say "no! anything's possible! go for it!" What is with this stupid obsession with the figure skating Olympians? People don't join the swim team or track team and say "Oh I wanna go to the Olympics."
/rant
Since people like this don't listen when told what a long shot it is, there's nothing you can do but exactly what you did. If they ask you if you think she can make it, politely say that it's not very likely because only about .0001% of skaters go to the Olympics.
Well yeah, I mean, it seems like WAY premature to be saying anything like that. .... I wasn't trying to say it was impossible, but I was just stunned to hear this.
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OP: You handled the situation beautifully. There's no point on stomping on someone's dreams. Reality will sink in soon enough. Was the mother obnoxious about it? I once met a mom who simply couldn't stand it that non-competitors were sharing the ice with her little princess and she never let an opportunity pass to inform us that we all had to get out of her daughter's way because little princess was going to the Olympics. LOL! Of course, the other skaters and their parents just ignored her.
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OP: You handled the situation beautifully. There's no point on stomping on someone's dreams. Reality will sink in soon enough. Was the mother obnoxious about it? I once met a mom who simply couldn't stand it that non-competitors were sharing the ice with her little princess and she never let an opportunity pass to inform us that we all had to get out of her daughter's way because little princess was going to the Olympics. LOL! Of course, the other skaters and their parents just ignored her.
No she wasn't obnoxious at all...I really just think they don't know. I mean, the girls isn't even yet able to skate at regionals this year because she couldn't pass pre-juv moves-- it seems like such a big hill to put in front of her at this juncture especially talking about splitting the family to do it. The skater is just not really tough, often complaining of aches and pains and tiredness and honestly my 9 year old trains longer hours-- and no, I don't expect her to go to the Olympics!
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No she wasn't obnoxious at all...I really just think they don't know. I mean, the girls isn't even yet able to skate at regionals this year because she couldn't pass pre-juv moves-- it seems like such a big hill to put in front of her at this juncture especially talking about splitting the family to do it. The skater is just not really tough, often complaining of aches and pains and tiredness and honestly my 9 year old trains longer hours-- and no, I don't expect her to go to the Olympics!
Yeah, I guess reality will come down soon. Let's hope it's just a phase, and the kid will move on to soccer in a couple of months.
Couldn't pass pre juv? Wow. Has this mother seen Senior moves?
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Yeah, I guess reality will come down soon. Let's hope it's just a phase, and the kid will move on to soccer in a couple of months.
Couldn't pass pre juv? Wow. Has this mother seen Senior moves?
I know! :o They went on an extended summer vacation, met a famous coach by chance, took a couple of lessons and then this idea was hatched.
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I know! :o They went on an extended summer vacation, met a famous coach by chance, took a couple of lessons and then this idea was hatched.
Oooh. Wait a second here. Did this coach give them this idea? I have heard of coaches telling parents how gifted and talented their child is, just to get them to keep paying for lessons.
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Oooh. Wait a second here. Did this coach give them this idea? I have heard of coaches telling parents how gifted and talented their child is, just to get them to keep paying for lessons.
I have no idea
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I know one parent who seems to be living through her child. She forces her kid to skate all the time and do lots of competitions. She has big goals for her daughter, who she refers to as "my athlete."
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The whole Olympic thing just annoys the daylights out of me. Whenever anyone finds out that DD is a figure skater they immediately ask "Oh, is she going to the Olympics?" as if that is the only reason anyone ever puts on a pair of skates. No, she skates because she loves it, loves to coach, loves to perform and compete and because it's a life-long pursuit (her Nana is still skating at age 77). DS is a football star, but no one asks us if he is trying to get into the NFL (although he has a way better shot than DD does at ever making the Olympic team!)
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Yeah, I guess reality will come down soon. Let's hope it's just a phase, and the kid will move on to soccer in a couple of months.
Couldn't pass pre juv? Wow. Has this mother seen Senior moves?
Lots of skaters dont pass pre juv moves the first time, I dont think I would base her chances on one moves test.
And no, I would say 85 percent of even Juv girls dont have D/A in a program yet.I wouldnt base anything on a low level. Its those that stick with it that do the best IMO.
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I wouldn't assume that the parents are living through their child.
I know a lot of skaters who really do think that they have a shot at the Olympics and their parents are supportive. Life does get in the way of those ambitions because of the cost, logistics, ice time, social events, school, etc. that prevents skaters from focusing on that target. Just getting to the Pre-Juv level requires a lot of training and dedication. Perhaps her progress vs. her dream is what help spur on this decision.
These parents seem ready to help their daughter chase the dream by relocating, hiring coaches, etc. It might happen, you never know.
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Well, they picked a new coach, locally- a guy from the Ukraine, who seems to be a good coach- his own daughter is a phenomenal skater with several triples under her belt- I think she is 15. However, the daughter is crying just about every day when her father is coaching her....maybe he will be different with someone else's child, but I have my doubts I guess. It doesn't seem to me she went to someone gentler.
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I try to avoid coaching my own kids for this very reason. It's not a good mix unless you have the perfect parent and the perfectly cooperative child. My kids ask me to help them when they really just want an excuse to use the harness, lol. They get disappointed when I have them do jump and spin drills. The "help" session pretty much goes downhill from there.
Yet, I rarely get that attitude from my students. They just listen and work hard.
FWIW, I'd mind my own business - it's their money and time. You never know what can happen with a lifestyle change like this.
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I try to avoid coaching my own kids for this very reason. It's not a good mix unless you have the perfect parent and the perfectly cooperative child. My kids ask me to help them when they really just want an excuse to use the harness, lol. They get disappointed when I have them do jump and spin drills. The "help" session pretty much goes downhill from there.
Yet, I rarely get that attitude from my students. They just listen and work hard.
FWIW, I'd mind my own business - it's their money and time. You never know what can happen with a lifestyle change like this.
I have no intention of saying anything at all to them! I was just stunned by it all
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Well, they picked a new coach, locally- a guy from the Ukraine, who seems to be a good coach- his own daughter is a phenomenal skater with several triples under her belt- I think she is 15. However, the daughter is crying just about every day when her father is coaching her....maybe he will be different with someone else's child, but I have my doubts I guess. It doesn't seem to me she went to someone gentler.
This seems to happen a lot, doesn't it.. kid of the famous coach is forced into being star skater, and coach seems oblivious to their daughter/son really hating it..
Guess you'll have to wait and see what happens. Nothing you can do. I am still quite steamed, but seeing as there is nothing I can do.. :-\
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I think there's some conclusion-jumping going on here. I've seen skaters have meltdowns on every lesson with coaches that aren't their parents. My heart breaks for them, but when their parents suggest taking a break from skating or quitting entirely, the skaters insist they want to be there and training. That doesn't mean anyone's being forced into skating or someone else is being oblivious.
It just means that one or both of the involved parties (none of you, btw) need to find a different way to express their frustration or anger and open up a dialog to resolve the problem. That's part of being a coach vs. being an instructor - you have to channel that emotion into productive methods that lead to communication and resolution. If it means stopping skating, fine.
You shouldn't joke in public about stalking people because it creates a permanent record of a threat.
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I think there's some conclusion-jumping going on here. I've seen skaters have meltdowns on every lesson with coaches that aren't their parents. My heart breaks for them, but when their parents suggest taking a break from skating or quitting entirely, the skaters insist they want to be there and training. That doesn't mean anyone's being forced into skating or someone else is being oblivious.
It just means that one or both of the involved parties (none of you, btw) need to find a different way to express their frustration or anger and open up a dialog to resolve the problem. That's part of being a coach vs. being an instructor - you have to channel that emotion into productive methods that lead to communication and resolution. If it means stopping skating, fine.
You shouldn't joke in public about stalking people because it creates a permanent record of a threat.
Oh, there is no doubt, my kids has the occassional melt downs too- but every day seems, well, not good.
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mm, thanks.
A kid who has constant meltdowns/cries/throws tantrums.. if they are not doing it because they don't want to skate/be with that coach/etc (as would be the immediate conclusion :-[), then I lose all sympathy for them, seeing as the reason they are crying is either because they weren't brought up right or want attention.
I was recently in an off ice class, any healthy child could have done it, but many of the kids were crying and faking stomach problems. Why? Because their parents didn't teach them any better.
I agree that every day, all the time, seems not so good, but that's another thing nobody can do anything about.
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mm, thanks.
A kid who has constant meltdowns/cries/throws tantrums.. if they are not doing it because they don't want to skate/be with that coach/etc (as would be the immediate conclusion :-[), then I lose all sympathy for them, seeing as the reason they are crying is either because they weren't brought up right or want attention.
I was recently in an off ice class, any healthy child could have done it, but many of the kids were crying and faking stomach problems. Why? Because their parents didn't teach them any better.
I agree that every day, all the time, seems not so good, but that's another thing nobody can do anything about.
It seems weird that you said... many of the kids were faking. How did you come up with that idea?It does seem you have an bias on not liking kids, or thinking they are divas.
Some are, I am sure. But they are people just like adults, and we all have off days!!
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A kid who has constant meltdowns/cries/throws tantrums.. if they are not doing it because they don't want to skate/be with that coach/etc (as would be the immediate conclusion :-[), then I lose all sympathy for them, seeing as the reason they are crying is either because they weren't brought up right or want attention.
I was recently in an off ice class, any healthy child could have done it, but many of the kids were crying and faking stomach problems. Why? Because their parents didn't teach them any better.
I agree that every day, all the time, seems not so good, but that's another thing nobody can do anything about.
Or, maybe the child has some sort of mental problem that doesn't allow them to interact socially correctly, or the child gets frustrated easily and while the parents have "taught them better" it is something they must work on, or any other number of reasons.
I skated with a child that was like that. Her parents were as frustrated as she was as to why she would meltdown during a lesson when she couldn't get a difficult jump right away, or she was having trouble with footwork, or whatever the issue was that day. Each day was different in severity, and good days there were no meltdowns. This child was immensely talented, loved skating and wanted to be there, wasn't doing it for attention, and didn't have the same problem in school or anything else.
Her parents tried everything - pulling her off the ice, making her stay on the ice, a number of different things. She just was so passionate about skating and loved it so much, she couldn't handle not doing it well. Her parents and coaches tried to get her to redirect, but ultimately it took professional help.
Her parents are wonderful people and did everything they could. It would be highly unfair to claim they didn't raise her right, as they did and instilled wonderful values.
I won't disagree that those parents are out there that push their children when they don't want to skate, or have unrealistic dreams for their children, or the children do just want attention. But blanket statements and judgments may not be correct.
As far as the OP, switching coaches at the pre-juv level and claiming to be training for the Olympics may seem unrealistic, but unless it's actively hurting or endangering the child, then I don't see a problem (other than the parents may look poorly in others eyes, but hey, they'll learn).
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This seems to happen a lot, doesn't it.. kid of the famous coach is forced into being star skater, and coach seems oblivious to their daughter/son really hating it..
Guess you'll have to wait and see what happens. Nothing you can do. I am still quite steamed, but seeing as there is nothing I can do.. :-\
Would love to hear some examples of famous coaches making their kids skate?
I am sure it happens now and then, but really dont think the rinks are overun with these skaters..
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It seems weird that you said... many of the kids were faking. How did you come up with that idea?It does seem you have an bias on not liking kids, or thinking they are divas.
Some are, I am sure. But they are people just like adults, and we all have off days!!
Because, they are also the type of kids who make a big deal out of falling down (there was one poor little girl who got her hand run over by a blade, but all the other falls were not serious at all) and don't listen to the coaches, and ask people to tie their skates when I know they are capable of tying their own skates (have seen them tie their own skates with no adults around), and such. There were nice kids in the group, but many of them were like this. Not little tiny kids either.. like 10 yr olds. The off ice was honestly not that hard, and most of them tried the faking thing at the beginning, when we were simply running around to warm up. Unless all of them already had a severely upset stomach or have a serious breathing/muscular condition (in which circumstance they shouldn't be skating anyway), they were most likely faking. You didn't see them in this situation.. please don't accuse me of being biased against kids.
Or, maybe the child has some sort of mental problem that doesn't allow them to interact socially correctly, or the child gets frustrated easily and while the parents have "taught them better" it is something they must work on, or any other number of reasons.
There are, of course, the exceptions, but not every child is like that.
Would love to hear some examples of famous coaches making their kids skate?
I am sure it happens now and then, but really dont think the rinks are overun with these skaters..
Well, maybe there aren't that many of them :-[
OT here, back to the olympic kid??
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Because, they are also the type of kids who make a big deal out of falling down (there was one poor little girl who got her hand run over by a blade, but all the other falls were not serious at all) and don't listen to the coaches, and ask people to tie their skates when I know they are capable of tying their own skates (have seen them tie their own skates with no adults around), and such. There were nice kids in the group, but many of them were like this. Not little tiny kids either.. like 10 yr olds. The off ice was honestly not that hard, and most of them tried the faking thing at the beginning, when we were simply running around to warm up. Unless all of them already had a severely upset stomach or have a serious breathing/muscular condition (in which circumstance they shouldn't be skating anyway), they were most likely faking. You didn't see them in this situation.. please don't accuse me of being biased against kids.
There are, of course, the exceptions, but not every child is like that. Well, maybe there aren't that many of them :-[
OT here, back to the olympic kid??
Because I would find it hard to believe that MOST of the kids in an off ice class would be faking illness to get out of it.I have been around skate kids for more than 7 years and I dont think that MOST would fake it.I am just making you see that it doesnt make sense.You said you skated out of a rink that had Kids doing Triples, I dont see them letting skaters fake it to get out of off ice.
There will always be kids who dont want it as much as parents, but they do end up stopping.
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As a former athlete who had a teenaged crybaby phase myself, my own bias was to assume the coach's 15 y/o must be one of those perfectionists who cares intensely because she's so passionate and dedicated ...
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Because I would find it hard to believe that MOST of the kids in an off ice class would be faking illness to get out of it.I have been around skate kids for more than 7 years and I dont think that MOST would fake it.I am just making you see that it doesnt make sense.You said you skated out of a rink that had Kids doing Triples, I dont see them letting skaters fake it to get out of off ice.
They didn't get out of it ;) And it was many.. not most. Most of the kids I see around the rink are not this bad, but for some reason the off ice had a larger concentration. (It was part of a skating camp.)
I really wish not to continue this discussion, seeing as the thread was originally about a family that thinks their daughter is going to the Olympics.
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Back OT, this is not an uncommon occurence in figure skating. We often joke that figure skating engenders its own special kind of delusion. :laugh:
At 11, if the kid doesn't already rotate most double jumps, I find this a far stretch, but anything is possible, I guess. &) Even kids who show a natural affinity for skating don't all make it even to Nationals. Last year there were 117 Intermediate Ladies at Upper Great Lakes Regionals. Only 6 moved on to Junior Nationals (and did very well, I might add, I think almost all of them made FR and one made the podium for sure). UGL was the largest Intermediate Ladies field last year, but let's assume the other 8 regions averaged 75 Intermediate Ladies, so there were approximately 700 Intermediate Ladies competing across the country to get 4 podium spots. Those aren't great odds, even if you are a very strong skater, because let's face it, you could have a bad day. Many skaters quit competing at this level and decide to just test out because they get discouraged, if they don't quit altogether! From there, you move up to Novice which probably had 400-500 competitors at the 9 Regionals vying for 4 spots on the National podium (and have to make it through Sectionals as well!) Also, then there's the Juniors and the Seniors (but the numbers are lower there). On top of all that, there's the potential for injury and the ever so scary puberty monster that gets a lot of talented skaters...But good luck to them!
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I think there's some conclusion-jumping going on here. I've seen skaters have meltdowns on every lesson with coaches that aren't their parents. My heart breaks for them, but when their parents suggest taking a break from skating or quitting entirely, the skaters insist they want to be there and training. That doesn't mean anyone's being forced into skating or someone else is being oblivious.
It just means that one or both of the involved parties (none of you, btw) need to find a different way to express their frustration or anger and open up a dialog to resolve the problem. That's part of being a coach vs. being an instructor - you have to channel that emotion into productive methods that lead to communication and resolution. If it means stopping skating, fine.
You shouldn't joke in public about stalking people because it creates a permanent record of a threat.
Yup. I would agree. There are a couple of skaters in my daughter's club who are like this. Don't assume they are being forced on the ice. One girl in particular LOVES to skate but has meltdowns. To be honest, I think ALL skaters(and sometimes their parents...lol) have their moments. Some just do a much better job of working through their emotions then others do. My daughter has never had a meltdown on ice, but she HAS completely lost her confidence. When that happens, it usually results in a very OFF day. She gets frustrated too, she just expresses it in another way...and one way is losing her confidence. Every skater is different. :)
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....We have been told point blank from the parents ...they are going to split the family to train her for the Olympics....Seriously, I was stunned into silence....I just nodded my head and said, good luck to you. Would you have done anything different???
My experience this week was not that extreme - but it certainly did put me on guard against any delusions I may have developed in the future. ;)
I went out of my way to compliment another little skater to her mother because I was feeling quite sorry for her. In my inexperienced, unqualified eye I thought she'd been struggling badly with LTS. But her mother beamed and told me how excited she was to have such an unusually talented child. :o
Clearly we parents have no clue and are amazingly biased. ;D It does make us incredibly vulnerable though to a coach's opinion.
It started me wondering about what - if any - sort of coach's comments should be relied upon about one's child's competitive potential?
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In my inexperienced, unqualified eye I thought she'd been struggling badly with LTS. But her mother beamed and told me how excited she was to have such an unusually talented child. :o
Could the comment have been humorous sarcasm on the mother's part? "Unusually talented" could have been her way of saying the child is a klutz, tho determined to conquer the skills.
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It started me wondering about what - if any - sort of coach's comments should be relied upon about one's child's competitive potential?
The coach knows all about a child's competitive potential. The parent knows nothing about it. The difference is if the coach actually does think the child has potential or if they're just trying to reel you in. "Susie is amazingly talented, I see Nationals in her future, she should start having more lessons per week.." uh, no. "Susie has been showing great promise and progress in her training, would you like to set competitive goals for her.." Parents just have to know the difference.
My mother tries to differentiate between good and bad in my skating, is sometimes right and sometimes not. Asks me- "Wasn't that a good spin?" Well, kind of, not really. She doesn't really seem biased. She doesn't seem very involved either, so that is probably why. I can see how mothers of very little kids and the "We" mothers can be biased, though.
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The coach knows all about a child's competitive potential. The parent knows nothing about it. The difference is if the coach actually does think the child has potential or if they're just trying to reel you in. "Susie is amazingly talented, I see Nationals in her future, she should start having more lessons per week.." uh, no. "Susie has been showing great promise and progress in her training, would you like to set competitive goals for her.." Parents just have to know the difference.
My mother tries to differentiate between good and bad in my skating, is sometimes right and sometimes not. Asks me- "Wasn't that a good spin?" Well, kind of, not really. She doesn't really seem biased. She doesn't seem very involved either, so that is probably why. I can see how mothers of very little kids and the "We" mothers can be biased, though.
Sorry dont agree. Coaches arent God, and really cant tell how a skater will end up doing in the long run.They might see clues, but then so might a parent.It really is slow and steady, and its a long long process.
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Many parents are ex-skaters, many are intelligent people who have taken the time to learn about the sport, many are judges, evaluators, or knowledgeable about athletics and trainability in general; some are even coaches! Don't underestimate us ;).
If there was a coach who could, honestly, consistently and accurately, predict the trajectory of a skater's career, that coach would be flying around the world evaluating skaters like crazy. They can look for traits, but, Lord knows, there are no guarantees. Don't forget, a lot of very high level coaches don't take kids from Step on the Ice to Step on the Olympic Podium ... they often get them when they are well into their skating career, and well along the way to where they will be (yes, there are exceptions ... some coaches really do like to have a skater's whole career in their hands).
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Could the comment have been humorous sarcasm on the mother's part? "Unusually talented" could have been her way of saying the child is a klutz, tho determined to conquer the skills.
Sadly no. It came at the end of a long speech about her grace and artistry and how worried she is about the younger sibs who are going to have to grow up living in the 7 y/os superstar shadow.
Admittedly she did win her first LTS level recently (and she did have one competitor). ;D
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Skating is roughly 97% mental. As with anything, we, as parents, always tell our children to believe in themselves, set goals (dreams), make a plan, and follow through. All skaters should have short term, long term and if applicable, competition goals. Sometimes, the long term goals seem more like a pipedream but nonetheless, these are our skaters goals. As with anything in regards to our children, we do whatever it takes to help our children reach their goals (dreams).
One of the things I have learned by being a parent of a skater is that her goals are her goals. They are certainly not mine, although I do, as a parent have the luxury of guiding her in the best direction. For instance - "getting a medal" used to be her focus...now - not so much! It took a while, but after continuous discussions and repetitive brainwashing (haha...just kidding), she now realizes she just needs to give 100% when she competes. It's made a huge difference in how she views competitions as well as her competitors. Mostly - it's changed the way she approaches skating - she skates, practices, and competes for herself now without thought about her "competition".
One of the things I used as a brainwashing, oops I mean explanation, was that although she has goals and a plan and she knows very well what those are, she has no clue what her friends or competitors goals and plans are. It really helped her understand how "individual" this sport really is. It's about individual accomplishments that make the skater all warm and glittery inside!
With that said....onto the original posters comments.....
Yes, we all know the chance of going to the Olympics is slim to quite slim! With all the skaters out there vying for so few spots at sectionals, nationals, junior nationals, etc.... it's really next to impossible. We have what, a couple hundred thousand skaters every year in the US? Yeah, it's pretty unreasonable that the average skater will advance and most do quit competing around juv/intermediate b/c it gets so difficult to hang on.
With that said....I look at football....I have no clue how many little kids are playing/learning the game of football. I could probably look it up but I'll suffice to say it's quite a bit more than a couple hundred thousand. Yes, there are many, many more spots in professional football vs. the highest levels of figure skating. But, I'd bet the ratios are similar. Yet - we let these boys have pipedreams about playing in the NFL when they grow up. We let them decorate their rooms with their idols, we even buy jersey with their idols names on the back. We certainly don't tell them "you'll never make the pro's" and we don't look at our friends kids that play football and say "who does he think he is giving his son more time in the front yard catching passes"....or "can you believe he thinks his son will play in the pros". No - that attitude doesn't really exist.... you may have a parent a little jealous that Johnny gets to start each game and he's not that much better than billy, who is second string, but yeah - he "might" work harder at practice. Usually, the kids find their passion and continue working hard or decide football isn't for them, or they get cut from a team, or don't make the college team, etc...... It's okay - they usually know whether they have what it takes or not.
However, in skating - it's always how this skater thinks she's all that but doesn't have a _______ at this age so she's not going anywhere. Or Suzy's parents make her stay on the ice for hours and hours, yes she's progressing but she's always crying. Or Buffie's parents think she's going to the olympics....can you believe they think that....she's only in snowplow sam 2! Some one needs to tell her it's not possible, now! Or, my absolute favorite..... She's good only because her parents can afford all the ice time and lessons!
In this highly competitive sport of figure skating - the sport is hard enough, mentally and physically, without all the negativity being thrown around. I honestly think the skaters that make it to the highest level aren't the skaters that showed the most success when they were young or had the best coaches or the most ice time....I believe it's the skaters that persevered when times were tough, held on and never wavered from their goals (dreams), and mostly - had a passion for their sport of choice.
To the OP - the skater in question could very well be our country's next Olympian....who's to say she won't be! If she has the passion, support, and inner drive to get to where she needs to be - who knows what will happen. I certainly cannot predict the future. I think we, as parents need to support our children's dreams without crushing the dreams of others. I think our skaters would benefit a little if we understood that if our kids were football players, the NFL would be the ultimate goal and we'd probably be okay with that!
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kssk8fan I just wanted to say I really loved your post.
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Skating is roughly 97% mental.
As with anything, we, as parents, always tell our children to believe in themselves, set goals (dreams), make a plan, and follow through. All skaters should have short term, long term and if applicable, competition goals. Sometimes, the long term goals seem more like a pipedream but nonetheless, these are our skaters goals. As with anything in regards to our children, we do whatever it takes to help our children reach their goals (dreams).
One of the things I have learned by being a parent of a skater is that her goals are her goals. They are certainly not mine, although I do, as a parent have the luxury of guiding her in the best direction. For instance - "getting a medal" used to be her focus...now - not so much! It took a while, but after continuous discussions and repetitive brainwashing (haha...just kidding), she now realizes she just needs to give 100% when she competes. It's made a huge difference in how she views competitions as well as her competitors. Mostly - it's changed the way she approaches skating - she skates, practices, and competes for herself now without thought about her "competition".
One of the things I used as a brainwashing, oops I mean explanation, was that although she has goals and a plan and she knows very well what those are, she has no clue what her friends or competitors goals and plans are. It really helped her understand how "individual" this sport really is. It's about individual accomplishments that make the skater all warm and glittery inside!
In this highly competitive sport of figure skating - the sport is hard enough, mentally and physically, without all the negativity being thrown around. I honestly think the skaters that make it to the highest level aren't the skaters that showed the most success when they were young or had the best coaches or the most ice time....I believe it's the skaters that persevered when times were tough, held on and never wavered from their goals (dreams), and mostly - had a passion for their sport of choice.
To the OP - the skater in question could very well be our country's next Olympian....who's to say she won't be! If she has the passion, support, and inner drive to get to where she needs to be - who knows what will happen. I certainly cannot predict the future. I think we, as parents need to support our children's dreams, without crushing the dreams of others.
would that the Rep-button ;) were working... I hope everyone else would hit it too! - What a great!! Mom your child is blessed with. Good for you, and all other skaters...
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As with anything, we, as parents, always tell our children to believe in themselves, set goals (dreams), make a plan, and follow through. As with anything in regards to our children, we do whatever it takes to help our children reach their goals (dreams).
With that said....I look at football....I have no clue how many little kids are playing/learning the game of football. Yet - we let these boys have pipedreams about playing in the NFL when they grow up. We let them decorate their rooms with their idols, we even buy jersey with their idols names on the back. We certainly don't tell them "you'll never make the pro's" and we don't look at our friends kids that play football and say "who does he think he is giving his son more time in the front yard catching passes"....or "can you believe he thinks his son will play in the pros". No - that attitude doesn't really exist.... you may have a parent a little jealous that Johnny gets to start each game and he's not that much better than billy, who is second string, but yeah - he "might" work harder at practice. Usually, the kids find their passion and continue working hard or decide football isn't for them, or they get cut from a team, or don't make the college team, etc...... It's okay - they usually know whether they have what it takes or not.
The difference, though, is little Johnny's family isn't going to split up so he and mom go live in FL to play Pop Warner football because that's where the best athletes are. Little Johnny is going to play football in whatever town his family lives in. He may show some affinity for football and his parents may decide to enroll him in the Catholic HS in the area because they have a better football program and he would be in a better position to get a D1 scholarship playing there than at the HS three block from home. Little Susie in this case, who has struggled with Prejuvenile MIF, has a family that is going to go through some separation pain and strain and a lot of expense so she can go train with a coach who says she's going to the Olympics.
I am all for parents supporting their kids dreams and I am grateful every day for what my parents did for me while I was growing up to enable me to become involved in skating, dance, softball, etc. but I think parents need to use some common sense and temper their "excitment" in approaching supporting dreams. Supporting two households is very stressful. Many families look for the best possible coach in their own area for their skater to progress and don't move to an Olympic-type coach until the child can take care of him/herself on their own. Mirai Nagasu is lucky because her family already lived near Frank C's training center. Evan Lysacek didn't go work with Frank until he graduated from HS. Kimmie Miessner didn't go to FL until she was done with HS.
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The difference, though, is little Johnny's family isn't going to split up so he and mom go live in FL to play Pop Warner football because that's where the best athletes are. Little Johnny is going to play football in whatever town his family lives in. He may show some affinity for football and his parents may decide to enroll him in the Catholic HS in the area because they have a better football program and he would be in a better position to get a D1 scholarship playing there than at the HS three block from home. Little Susie in this case, who has struggled with Prejuvenile MIF, has a family that is going to go through some separation pain and strain and a lot of expense so she can go train with a coach who says she's going to the Olympics.
I am all for parents supporting their kids dreams and I am grateful every day for what my parents did for me while I was growing up to enable me to become involved in skating, dance, softball, etc. but I think parents need to use some common sense and temper their "excitment" in approaching supporting dreams. Supporting two households is very stressful. Many families look for the best possible coach in their own area for their skater to progress and don't move to an Olympic-type coach until the child can take care of him/herself on their own. Mirai Nagasu is lucky because her family already lived near Frank C's training center. Evan Lysacek didn't go work with Frank until he graduated from HS. Kimmie Miessner didn't go to FL until she was done with HS.
I agree with you, but there are always going to be parents that go off the deep end and think their skater is the best.They dont care if it rips the famiy apart.I know of a family that sent their 10 year old to Japan for a year, she came back and hates it now.They thought this would help her get to JR nats, like that is the end all be all of skating.
I just looked at the juv results of Mid Atlantics, as its a big comp.The scores were all over the place.Someone had a 48, I am sure she will get to Jr nats this year. Someof them had half that number, and I am sure some of those parents are over the top as well.I have seen prelim and pre juv skaters with higher points.
I have heard of tennis kids moving for better coaching, and I know hockey boys here stay with families in other places . But I think those kids are much older than 11!
Have to feel sorry for the kids, alot of stress!
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II just looked at the juv results of Mid Atlantics, as its a big comp.The scores were all over the place.Someone had a 48, I am sure she will get to Jr nats this year. Someof them had half that number, and I am sure some of those parents are over the top as well.I have seen prelim and pre juv skaters with higher points.
The girls with 48, she is from our rink and I am sure she is going to Jr. Nationals this year...she is really good and works exceptionally hard. My kid was one of the kids with half the points- of course, she is new to juvie and the girl with 48 is not-- so you can't really read much into those points right now-- nobody expects a lot of the kids with half the points to do anything right now-- alot were new to juv. Of course, I don't think my kid is going to the Olympics either-- at this point, she'd be happy to break 30 points -- little goals. How could you see prelim and pre juv skaters with higher points, how would you know- they don't get points?
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The difference, though, is little Johnny's family isn't going to split up so he and mom go live in FL to play Pop Warner football because that's where the best athletes are. Little Johnny is going to play football in whatever town his family lives in. He may show some affinity for football and his parents may decide to enroll him in the Catholic HS in the area because they have a better football program and he would be in a better position to get a D1 scholarship playing there than at the HS three block from home. Little Susie in this case, who has struggled with Prejuvenile MIF, has a family that is going to go through some separation pain and strain and a lot of expense so she can go train with a coach who says she's going to the Olympics.
I am all for parents supporting their kids dreams and I am grateful every day for what my parents did for me while I was growing up to enable me to become involved in skating, dance, softball, etc. but I think parents need to use some common sense and temper their "excitment" in approaching supporting dreams. Supporting two households is very stressful. Many families look for the best possible coach in their own area for their skater to progress and don't move to an Olympic-type coach until the child can take care of him/herself on their own. Mirai Nagasu is lucky because her family already lived near Frank C's training center. Evan Lysacek didn't go work with Frank until he graduated from HS. Kimmie Miessner didn't go to FL until she was done with HS.
This is true- not only that, I'd bet the chances of making the NFL is better than the Olympics as a figure skater-- more spots.
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I was recently in an off ice class, any healthy child could have done it, but many of the kids were crying and faking stomach problems. Why? Because their parents didn't teach them any better.
There's a girl at the rink who was much like that back before my injury (and the ballet teacher hated her guts) and now that I've come back she's not gotten better behaved either. Basically, she only does what she likes and will throw tantrums whenever she has to do something she doesn't like. Today she was crying someone got in the way of her spiral sequence and it distracted her. She wasn't even skating to music. Felt like she just wanted to get off the ice and go home and that's why she was throwing the whole scene. She probably was quite tired too, the parents apparently thought it'd be a good idea to have two consecutive trainings for her in the morning, first hockey then figure skating.
On the other hand, I wonder if figure skating really is her thing at all. She's also doing hockey and her parents want her to stop so she can focus on figure skating... The kid's not exactly a girlie girl though. No grace and no feel for art at all, she just wants to run amok and pull crazy stunts all the time, off ice or on it. I wonder what she's like in hockey training, I've not seen her train, but something tells me it's the mom's dream she becomes a figure skater and not the kid's. (Especially given how the mom likes to dress the kid in exactly the same style of clothing she wears...)
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The girls with 48, she is from our rink and I am sure she is going to Jr. Nationals this year...she is really good and works exceptionally hard. My kid was one of the kids with half the points- of course, she is new to juvie and the girl with 48 is not-- so you can't really read much into those points right now-- nobody expects a lot of the kids with half the points to do anything right now-- alot were new to juv. Of course, I don't think my kid is going to the Olympics either-- at this point, she'd be happy to break 30 points -- little goals. How could you see prelim and pre juv skaters with higher points, how would you know- they don't get points?
Go to comps where IJS is used for those levels..our regionals is using IJS for all levels this year.We have been to comps where we have gotten points for two years at low levels.Jumps are jumps, spins are spins no matter what level.My son is only prelim and is under IJS.It really doesnt matter if you just moved up or not.A girl in my daughters group from last year just moved up and she competed this am with 35 points.A double lutz has the same number of points, a layback has the same number no matter what level your skater is at.If your skater has doubles and level 3 spins, they show up in the numbers. In fact juvs get more points as below is all level 1. They dont rate them above, just on the GOE.
My point is juv has many levels, just look at the scores and see.I am sure some of the parents who had lower scores think their kids are all that. You cant control someone who thinks their skater is super talented.The results are the results.The numbers speak and they really are helpful in learning what you need to work on.!!
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I like the IJS because points are points. You can pretty much figure out exactly where your skater is exceeding or lacking based on the points for each element as well as the PCS. Your top skaters are all pretty much similar in point totals. In our region, 46-48 for juv is consistant among the top juvs. There may be no magic formula to tell the rising stars from the not so rising stars but I can certainly say that if a juv is consistently scoring 47 in their program, they have a great shot at succeeding at that level. Once they move up to Intermediate - if they are hitting in the mid 50's for their FS. they are also pretty good.
So no, there isn't a magic ball that can pick out the skaters that will be successfull, but I'd say that if a skater is hitting those huge numbers, then the kid has talent.
Also, with the IJS, there's not a "reputation" factor as much so kids that move up a level have a same opportunity to hit big numbers as those that have been at that level for a while. It all boils down to the drive and determination of the skater.
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All IJS results are not the same. There's different multipliers used for the PCS score. The TE score is comparable across levels, but the skating skills are not. At the lower levels they adjust the PCS score and so total points scores can be higher in a lower level but they have a less technically difficult program.
IJS is an improvement as it's meant to be less subjective, but where people are doing single jumps and level 1 spins, it's not that helpful.
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IJS is an improvement as it's meant to be less subjective, but where people are doing single jumps and level 1 spins, it's not that helpful.
Interestingly, in the Canadian competitive track, all spins and step sequences are called L1 in our two lowest levels, regardless of where they would be under the strict application of the rules.
I find that CPC is quite useful in the lower levels (we are now using it in test track as well) as it allows the skater, coach and parents to see where strengths and weaknesses lie. The OBO system doesn't give you an idea of how you are relative to other skaters; it simply means that based on the variety of rankings of the judges, you happened to work out to be 1st, 2nd, etc. Since we've been getting detail reports, I've seen skaters able to identify that their skating skills were above/below standard; that their lutz is/isn't a flutz; that their spins do/do not count; that they are indeed doing a difficult entry and excellent technique; etc. With OBO, you couldn't tell.
We are also seeing some shifts in placements. With the visible score given to the PCS, it means that skaters with strong skating skills and good interpretation are seeing that aspect being rewarded, and there is less "sole emphasis" on landing jumps at any cost. The kids who were cleaning up with the jumps are now finding that they have to have a more complete package, and it is also lessening the "SHE was in FIRST! But, I LANDED MY DOUBLE LOOP and SHE didn't have any doubles" debates, as the skaters can see exactly why such and such came first.
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So no, there isn't a magic ball that can pick out the skaters that will be successfull, but I'd say that if a skater is hitting those huge numbers, then the kid has talent.
The big numbers early on are great, however, as we all have seen, many of the younger kids meet the "puberty monster" and start to falter. The tiny ones who were able to pop jumps and bend into amazing spins are now having to cope with different dynamics. Or, the cute little girl who wows the judges with a sparkly routine full of life and bouncy jumps and spins matures into a young lady who can no longer sell cute and who can't simply bounce the jumps off the ice anymore. Mental shifts in performance focus occur as hormones and adolescent pressures come into play.
I've seen quite a few "tortoise" kids begin to pass the "hares" as ages increase, particularly if they were "tortoise-ing" due to early growth spurts, later entry, or simply learning in a different way than other skaters.
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sk8tmum.....I ABSOLUTELY agree with you on this! growth spurts can be wicked and the hormones that go along with that can wreck havoc on the mental state of the skater. Selling cute doesn't work for long.
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Go to comps where IJS is used for those levels..our regionals is using IJS for all levels this year.We have been to comps where we have gotten points for two years at low levels.Jumps are jumps, spins are spins no matter what level.My son is only prelim and is under IJS.It really doesnt matter if you just moved up or not.A girl in my daughters group from last year just moved up and she competed this am with 35 points.A double lutz has the same number of points, a layback has the same number no matter what level your skater is at.If your skater has doubles and level 3 spins, they show up in the numbers. In fact juvs get more points as below is all level 1. They dont rate them above, just on the GOE.
My point is juv has many levels, just look at the scores and see.I am sure some of the parents who had lower scores think their kids are all that. You cant control someone who thinks their skater is super talented.The results are the results.The numbers speak and they really are helpful in learning what you need to work on.!!
Well yes..that is why we like it, and why we didn't wait until she could make 40 points to move up. She is learning alot about what she has to work on- I agree. So I guess it depends when you decide to move up too. I guess my point was that most of those parents didn't have high expectations yet of the placings and that even the girl who had 48 didn't have that last year when she just moved up and was a year younger or the year before the first couple of times out at Juvie. If we waited until spring, my dd and some of the others too probably could have gotten 35 points the first time out too. Of course, I do also think there were a few girls who were getting to an age where it was now or never.
I have never seen IJS scores in lower than juvenile- I think it would be a good thing myself.
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The big numbers early on are great, however, as we all have seen, many of the younger kids meet the "puberty monster" and start to falter. The tiny ones who were able to pop jumps and bend into amazing spins are now having to cope with different dynamics. Or, the cute little girl who wows the judges with a sparkly routine full of life and bouncy jumps and spins matures into a young lady who can no longer sell cute and who can't simply bounce the jumps off the ice anymore. Mental shifts in performance focus occur as hormones and adolescent pressures come into play.
I've seen quite a few "tortoise" kids begin to pass the "hares" as ages increase, particularly if they were "tortoise-ing" due to early growth spurts, later entry, or simply learning in a different way than other skaters.
This is true, my dd is very tall for her age, and she hates it...but in my mind, being as tall as the 11-12 year olds now at not even 10 means she HAS to learn to skate-- she cannot win on cute, she cannot bounce off the ice- as she doesn't LOOK little or young even though she is-- I think in the end it is better for her skating.
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Some comps here do IJS at the lower levels. My dd has one coming up this weekend. It's really nice to get some indication of what the judges did or didn't like and a heads-up on things that should be changed or improved. This is her first IJS with dbl jumps--it will be interesting to see what happens.
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All IJS results are not the same. There's different multipliers used for the PCS score. The TE score is comparable across levels, but the skating skills are not. At the lower levels they adjust the PCS score and so total points scores can be higher in a lower level but they have a less technically difficult program.
IJS is an improvement as it's meant to be less subjective, but where people are doing single jumps and level 1 spins, it's not that helpful.
Yes, you are right about the lower PCS score but the tech score is the same. The pre juv my dd skates with run close numbers with juv skaters and basically have the same jumps and spins.The only difference is that juv time forprogram is 15 sec more.5 Jumps is 5 jumps is 5 jumps. 3 spins is the same is both levels.
Here the competive kids dont move to juv till they have a d lutz double toe..Unless you are going to age out,no need to move up sooner.
Its very helpful for the score, the ones who think they have clean doubles find out they dont.
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Interestingly, in the Canadian competitive track, all spins and step sequences are called L1 in our two lowest levels, regardless of where they would be under the strict application of the rules.
I find that CPC is quite useful in the lower levels (we are now using it in test track as well) as it allows the skater, coach and parents to see where strengths and weaknesses lie. The OBO system doesn't give you an idea of how you are relative to other skaters; it simply means that based on the variety of rankings of the judges, you happened to work out to be 1st, 2nd, etc. Since we've been getting detail reports, I've seen skaters able to identify that their skating skills were above/below standard; that their lutz is/isn't a flutz; that their spins do/do not count; that they are indeed doing a difficult entry and excellent technique; etc. With OBO, you couldn't tell.
We are also seeing some shifts in placements. With the visible score given to the PCS, it means that skaters with strong skating skills and good interpretation are seeing that aspect being rewarded, and there is less "sole emphasis" on landing jumps at any cost. The kids who were cleaning up with the jumps are now finding that they have to have a more complete package, and it is also lessening the "SHE was in FIRST! But, I LANDED MY DOUBLE LOOP and SHE didn't have any doubles" debates, as the skaters can see exactly why such and such came first.
In pre juv and below, its also level 1 here as well. They can be marked up on the GOE.Its doesnt mean that they really are all level one spins.
Its hard to take the score and think in 6 months it will be ten points higher.To do that the jumps must be clean, the spins must be held enough.It really does take time for jumpsto be 100 percent clean.That is why this sport really favors those that take their time, more the hare than the fox!
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The big numbers early on are great, however, as we all have seen, many of the younger kids meet the "puberty monster" and start to falter. The tiny ones who were able to pop jumps and bend into amazing spins are now having to cope with different dynamics. Or, the cute little girl who wows the judges with a sparkly routine full of life and bouncy jumps and spins matures into a young lady who can no longer sell cute and who can't simply bounce the jumps off the ice anymore. Mental shifts in performance focus occur as hormones and adolescent pressures come into play.
I've seen quite a few "tortoise" kids begin to pass the "hares" as ages increase, particularly if they were "tortoise-ing" due to early growth spurts, later entry, or simply learning in a different way than other skaters.
Interesting. I think my daughter will be a tortoise. Part of that is the fact that she IS hitting puberty and the fact that we simply cannot afford extra lessons with a bunch of different coaches. There is a former olympian who often works on jumps with many of the kids in our area. I would LOVE to have him work with my daughter, but the fact is, we can't afford regular lessons with him. I could probably find a way to finance 2 lessons a month with him, but I am not sure how beneficial it would be to go every other week. Anyway, my point is, my daughter WILL get there, but her progress will be slower since we cannot afford some of the coaching others can. it isn't a bad thing, it's just reality. We aren't shooting for the stars, just for my daughter's own goals. :)
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Interesting. I think my daughter will be a tortoise. Part of that is the fact that she IS hitting puberty and the fact that we simply cannot afford extra lessons with a bunch of different coaches. There is a former olympian who often works on jumps with many of the kids in our area. I would LOVE to have him work with my daughter, but the fact is, we can't afford regular lessons with him. I could probably find a way to finance 2 lessons a month with him, but I am not sure how beneficial it would be to go every other week. Anyway, my point is, my daughter WILL get there, but her progress will be slower since we cannot afford some of the coaching others can. it isn't a bad thing, it's just reality. We aren't shooting for the stars, just for my daughter's own goals. :)
I think that is a good thing. Not the cant afford lesson part, the whole its not a race part.Everyone doesnt need to be the 8, 9 year old in Juv with doubles. Those really arent for the MOST part, they ones you will see at 15 or 16.
Like I said my daughter skates with a 10 year old that just spent a whole year in japan. Girl jumped jumped jumped for a year. Comes back with back issues,burnt out, cheated jumps.She just competed, they told her jumps were cheated and she didnt hold her spins long enough. Needless to say, she isnt going to regionals, even though she is registered.
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Interesting. I think my daughter will be a tortoise. Part of that is the fact that she IS hitting puberty and the fact that we simply cannot afford extra lessons with a bunch of different coaches. There is a former olympian who often works on jumps with many of the kids in our area. I would LOVE to have him work with my daughter, but the fact is, we can't afford regular lessons with him. I could probably find a way to finance 2 lessons a month with him, but I am not sure how beneficial it would be to go every other week. Anyway, my point is, my daughter WILL get there, but her progress will be slower since we cannot afford some of the coaching others can. it isn't a bad thing, it's just reality. We aren't shooting for the stars, just for my daughter's own goals. :)
I like your attitude! Remember, that practice is very important too, not just the coaching. The general rule of thumb is to practice twice the amount of lesson time, though the more the better.
I was a 'tortoise' for the first year and a half, and I have remarkably improved in the last five months or so, especially considering that I only skate a few hours a week. I think most tortoises, if they have good skates and sufficient practice time, will eventually become hares, even if only for a few months. It all balances out in the end.
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My daughter competed this weekend. It was her first time in pre-pre. It was quite evident to me that the kids I know who recieve extra coaching, fared much better then my daughter(who psyched herself out in a BIG way!). Didn't help she was landing her axel 50% of the time that day and the day before. She'll get there...it'll just take more time! I've seen her skate a nearly flawless program yet that day... it just was not there.
:)
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I like your attitude! Remember, that practice is very important too, not just the coaching. The general rule of thumb is to practice twice the amount of lesson time, though the more the better.
I was a 'tortoise' for the first year and a half, and I have remarkably improved in the last five months or so, especially considering that I only skate a few hours a week. I think most tortoises, if they have good skates and sufficient practice time, will eventually become hares, even if only for a few months. It all balances out in the end.
I have to be honest, I have my moments...believe me I do. Ask her coach and my husband! They both know how guilty I feel at times that I cannot provide her with more lesson time. I will say tho, she does have a fair amount of ice time. She skates 4-5 days a week and 3 of those days, she skates for 2 hours at a time.
Her biggest issue rigbht now, is confidence. She CAN land an axel and she CAN skate a clean program, but she psyches herself out and then has trouble landing her axels. All in due time. :) Our finacial situation is looking up, so I am hoping in a few months time, I can afford to add in a few lessons with the jump coach the other kids have used. Still don't know if I will be able to afford him regularly but maybe even a few lessons will help. Hard to say.
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isakswings.....please don't feel guilty about not having enough lessons for your daughter. Practice time is soooo under-rated IMO. Your daughter will develop her confidence in those times on the ice without a coach, where it's just the axel and your daughter. I can only speak from our personal experience but when my daughter is learning a new element it finally appears when there's no pressure. It's at this time that she can really think about what she's been told, put it all together and try.
As for being a tortoise or a hare.....slow and steady wins the race! Or in figure skating, develops technique!
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My daughter competed this weekend. It was her first time in pre-pre. It was quite evident to me that the kids I know who recieve extra coaching, fared much better then my daughter(who psyched herself out in a BIG way!). Didn't help she was landing her axel 50% of the time that day and the day before. She'll get there...it'll just take more time! I've seen her skate a nearly flawless program yet that day... it just was not there.
:)
I know I have said this before, but it isnt always those that have more lessons that do well. Both my kids last year competed at regionals with kids who have lessons daily. My kids have two lessons a week, unless its something special.The both placed higher than the kids who have daily lessons.My Dd also placed better than kids who had higher level jumps.Its not about the jumps and its really not about who can afford more lessons.It can be about the drive and determination of the skater.
Hope she had fun this weekend!
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I know I have said this before, but it isnt always those that have more lessons that do well. Both my kids last year competed at regionals with kids who have lessons daily. My kids have two lessons a week, unless its something special.The both placed higher than the kids who have daily lessons.My Dd also placed better than kids who had higher level jumps.Its not about the jumps and its really not about who can afford more lessons.It can be about the drive and determination of the skater.
Hope she had fun this weekend!
Thanks! Her coach tells me something similar. She knows my frustration. My daughter's coach is great and honestly, part of the reason my daughter is still skating competitively. Dd usually has 2 lessons a week too. She skates 4-5 days a week. Her drive and determination varies but she seems fairly set on improving and has done so. :) We are adding in some ice dance lessons but mostly to help her with edges and posture. Those lessons will likely be 15 minute lessons weekly or 30 minute lessons every other week. Dd's primary coach said she thinks 15 minute lessons weekly would be better, so if the dance coach agrees, she will have that added into her weekly routine.
I worry now that she is advancing past the LTS levels. She's still getting her layback down in addition to other spins. Her camel-sit-back sit needs work, so she does a camel-sit-back spin for her combo spin. All in due time. :) Anyway... thanks.
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isakswings.....please don't feel guilty about not having enough lessons for your daughter. Practice time is soooo under-rated IMO. Your daughter will develop her confidence in those times on the ice without a coach, where it's just the axel and your daughter. I can only speak from our personal experience but when my daughter is learning a new element it finally appears when there's no pressure. It's at this time that she can really think about what she's been told, put it all together and try.
As for being a tortoise or a hare.....slow and steady wins the race! Or in figure skating, develops technique!
Thanks! She currently has 2 lessons a week with her primary coach and then this week, we will be adding in dance lessons. Those will be either one every other week or one 15 minute lesson a week. :) It's funny because her coach said when dd gets it in her head that she WILL land her axel, she does it. When she is waivering, she doesn't land it. She'll also spin it at times... which is what she did yesterday and likely why she didn't land it in her nearly flawless and beautifully skated, artistic program! Oh well. :)
Thanks again!
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I think that is a good thing. Not the cant afford lesson part, the whole its not a race part.Everyone doesnt need to be the 8, 9 year old in Juv with doubles. Those really arent for the MOST part, they ones you will see at 15 or 16.
Like I said my daughter skates with a 10 year old that just spent a whole year in japan. Girl jumped jumped jumped for a year. Comes back with back issues,burnt out, cheated jumps.She just competed, they told her jumps were cheated and she didnt hold her spins long enough. Needless to say, she isnt going to regionals, even though she is registered.
That is a shame for her. Why Japan?
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That is a shame for her. Why Japan?
Mom from Japan, grandparents live there. They sent her alone for a year.Parents stayed here.
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Mom from Japan, grandparents live there. They sent her alone for a year.Parents stayed here.
My dd has a friend from Bulgaria, and she goes there (with her parents) every summer. Her mom was telling me how the focus is so different, that these little kids can jump, but they cannot really skate. I didn't realize Japan was a great place to train. I would think there are plenty of places here in the US.
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Japan has a lot of great singles skaters now. Ladies - Mao, Miki, Suguri, Kanako Murakami... Men-Takahashi, Kozuka, Oda... Their training methods are different than ours, but maybe the parents really wanted their skater to get to know the grandparents while there?
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Japan has a lot of great singles skaters now. Ladies - Mao, Miki, Suguri, Kanako Murakami... Men-Takahashi, Kozuka, Oda... Their training methods are different than ours, but maybe the parents really wanted their skater to get to know the grandparents while there?
I really wish I could say that was the reason :(Her mom had this idea of how she would come back with D/A and go to Jr nats.She did improve over the past year but then so did my my skaters lol.Her grandparents speak little English.
They do things very different there and I am sure she got alot out of it . Its not her going that I find odd, its her going by herself at age 10.She told my DD she hated it,missed her brothers and sisters and her own bed. She came back and started with her back hurting her.
Its a shame, as she is a good skater. Its the Mom that has her own issues.
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Unfortunately, skate mom (or dad), is not an uncommon occurence in this sport.