Which EDEA model?

[EricaDer]

Hi all,

New here, but lurk often.  My DD is almost 9, competing at non-test level this season, about to start her axel.  Historically, her feet have been slow-growing, so I anticipate (optimistically) that the next pair of boots will last about a year, so into her axel and (again, optimistically!) MAYBE first double jump.  She has struggled a long time with her lutz, but her other jumps have come easily to her, and she has a fair bit of power when she skates.

She started with Riedell's, which were not a good fit for her C-ball/A-heel feet.  We switched to SP Teri in the summer, and had a lot of QC problems (first pair was ruined by the rep when mounting blades, second pair had hooks separating from the boot after just a few weeks of use).  So Teri is giving us a refund and we're hunting for a new pair of boots!  She skates on a Coronation Ace blade.

EDEA's are starting to get popular at our rink.  We have 2 high level skaters wearing Ice Fly and Concerto, and another who just went into the Chorus boot (working on her doubles).  We have a fitter not too far away in BC who sells EDEAs and can mold them and mount the blades, but I'll need to order them from SkatesUS because he doesn't carry EDEAs in such a small size (most likely 220, but I'll need to order a few sizes and return the ones that don't fit).  Both SkatesUS and this other fitter recommended the Chorus boot for DD, but I noticed on the SkatesUS site that they say you can't "overboot" in EDEA and that even lower level skaters are doing well in the Ice Fly.

So my question is: would Ice Fly be way overkill?  DD is small, only 50lb and petite, is a great spinner and showing great promise at footwork, though jumps are coming along slower because she's gotten seriously hung up on her lutz (she struggles with anything on an outside edge - back spins, lutz, due to her pronation and leg shape).  The ultra light weight of the Ice Fly seems like it would be of benefit to her, but I'm not sure?  Her skating already improved a lot after switching to the lightest weight SP Teri, so is lighter always better for a small skater?  I imagine lightness will help her get her legs up for camels, catch-foot spins, etc.
 
I'm planning to ask the SkatesUS rep about this tomorrow, but thought I'd check in here to see what people think, and what younger kids at other rinks are having success with. 

Oh, and I also plan to use yellow superfeet or the EDEA special ortho insole, because DD is a serious hardcore pronator with flat feet, and I've read that the EDEAs' thin sole can be uncomfortable, so an upgraded insole is recommended.

Thoughts? 

Let's assume that, when choosing the model, the price is not a factor.  I just want to get her the best possible boot, since we've had such a string of bad luck lately. 

Thanks!   

PS - she currently skates 4 days a week, about 10 hours/week, maybe more during summers and competition season. 

[irenar5]

I hear EDEAs are very comfortable and easy to break in.  My coach got them after custom Harlicks and said there is quite an adjustment period- there is a higher pitch inside the boot, so you are closer to the toe pick.

We have a few kids at the rink who love EDEAs as well- their boots are mostly Ice Fly and the range of skill is from Juvenile and up.
I don't really think you can predict the fit- just have to try them on and see. 

[spiralina]

The Edeas have a lot of padding and a very wide but stable tongue so breaking in is much easier (than any other boot I've tried). However, the Choruses are already very lightweight - andhere in Europe, half the price of Ice Flys. Not sure it's worth the extra?

[sarahspins]

So my question is: would Ice Fly be way overkill?

Yes, and here's why:  No 8 year old truly needs a $700 boots unless they are custom made to correct a functional foot or ankle problem, then that puts you in a different category of buying something made to fit your needs (customs can be made to match any age/ability), rather than spending money on a higher level boot just to have a higher level boot.  All of the Edea models are lightweight.  The Chorus might be fine for her if Edea works for her foot.  If it doesn't, then the ice fly wouldn't have been any better for her, and you'd have spent more money to figure that out. 

That said, I have a daughter the same age/size and while mine does not yet have all of her single jumps, I'd be hesitant to put her in a boot as stiff as the Chorus until she was actually landing doubles.  Beginning to work on the axel or doubles, or anticipating the start of working on doubles doesn't always dictate a higher level boot than what she currently needs right now unless her own history has shown that she tends to break down boots before she outgrows them - that would be a sign that she needs a stronger boot.  Also, something to consider is that a smaller skater can usually get away with using "less" boot that someone who is larger or heavier.

In your position unless you have clear evidence she actually needs a stiffer boot, I'd probably be looking at the Overture.  I would also suggest doing something more than relying on superfeet to correct pronation - from what you have described she has more severe pronation than what the superfeet can correct.  Blade position sometimes needs to be tweaked a little more than normal for skaters with pronation.

[sampaguita]

There are a lot of rich kids and adults in my rink, and they are wearing Ice Flys even if they are just in the ISI FS1-3. They say these boots are as comfy as sneakers.

If budget is not a problem, I would suggest the Ice Fly over any other Edea model. The Edeas are made from a different material and are not supposed to be heat moldable (despite SkateUSA's claim). I've tried the Edea Overture and I don't quite like the feel. If it were Jackson or Riedell vs Edea, I'd go for Jackson or Riedell, unless we're talking about the Ice Fly.

[EricaDer]

Realized that I never came back to update this thread!

So to answer a few posters above, DD was previously in a $600 SP Teri boot, so my budget for new boots was really anything in this range, of which all EDEAs are.  DD also has difficult foot anatomy - split width, extreme pronation and very angular protruding inner ankle bones.  All former boots (riedells and teris)  required major and repeated modifications for basic comfort.

So after doing my research, I decided to order the EDEA Chorus and Ice Fly models for her to try on, thinking we'd most likely choose the cheaper Chorus boot.  As soon as she put her feet into the Chorus, she had major ankle pain and they were uncomfortable, and would have required modifications.  She just hated the feel of them.

The Ice Flys, however, fit like a glove.  No joke - I couldn't get her to take them off.  We decided to take a chance and put her in them (back in Feb) and she LOVES them.  She didn't need any modifications at all, and we've had zero problems with the boots.  No break in period, and she adjusted to the loose fitting ankles within a couple of days.  Cosmetically, they still look brand new - they hold up very well and don't show scuffs.  She lost a couple of crystals, but I just used my hot fixer to attach new ones.  I love that the soles are zero maintenance.

So I really can't recommend the EDEA Ice Fly enough, even for a lower level, young skater.  She's had a terrific season, finishing 1st or 2nd at every competition, with one left to go.  She's been working on her axel and she really likes how far she can flex in the ankle for her spins and footwork.  I've noticed that she's holding her axel landings much better than other kids who are at the same stage in their axels, which is the opposite of what you'd expect in a boot with less ankle support.  Maybe it's because she's able to bend so deeply on her takeoff.  She's only been jumping her axel for a couple of lessons and is already landing it, though not consistently yet, but she has landed it maybe a dozen times.  Other kids at our rink have taken months to land it the first time and spend a lot of time falling on their landings.  Is it the boots?  Maybe!  She's not a jumping prodigy by any means - jumps have historically been harder for her than her peers.  Who knows - maybe the axel is just going to be her "thing".  Or maybe these boots are just anatomically what she needs.

And I love knowing that the Ice Fly is the top of the line boot at $700, and that's the most we're going to ever have to spend on boots!  Many skaters in our club are wearing custom boots of $1200+, but these "stock" boots are perfect for her and don't break the bank.

She loves them to pieces and hopefully we won't see her foot change too much over the years so that she can stay in them, because they truly fit her feet perfectly.

I highly recommend them!

[EricaDer]

Yes, and here's why:  No 8 year old truly needs a $700 boots unless they are custom made to correct a functional foot or ankle problem, then that puts you in a different category of buying something made to fit your needs (customs can be made to match any age/ability), rather than spending money on a higher level boot just to have a higher level boot.  All of the Edea models are lightweight.  The Chorus might be fine for her if Edea works for her foot.  If it doesn't, then the ice fly wouldn't have been any better for her, and you'd have spent more money to figure that out. 

That said, I have a daughter the same age/size and while mine does not yet have all of her single jumps, I'd be hesitant to put her in a boot as stiff as the Chorus until she was actually landing doubles.  Beginning to work on the axel or doubles, or anticipating the start of working on doubles doesn't always dictate a higher level boot than what she currently needs right now unless her own history has shown that she tends to break down boots before she outgrows them - that would be a sign that she needs a stronger boot.  Also, something to consider is that a smaller skater can usually get away with using "less" boot that someone who is larger or heavier.

In your position unless you have clear evidence she actually needs a stiffer boot, I'd probably be looking at the Overture.  I would also suggest doing something more than relying on superfeet to correct pronation - from what you have described she has more severe pronation than what the superfeet can correct.  Blade position sometimes needs to be tweaked a little more than normal for skaters with pronation.

Thanks Sarahspins!  Regarding her pronation, I took her to an ortho who sees lots of skaters, and his opinion was not to mess with the natural shape of her feet and ankles.  He feels that she's young and the pronation isn't causing her pain - that it's a developmental stage and to not try artificially "correcting" it because, as her body grows and changes, we're then creating an artificial position that could later lead to injury.

So we've left it alone and moved to stiffer boots to try to "contain" those crazy ankle bones, lol.  The Teris we had her in were softer, rated for singles but since she's so little, the rep felt they were more than enough for her.  Well 5 weeks into the new boots, the inside hooks started separating from the boots, and a local skate fitter inspected them and felt that the leather was just too soft for the aggressive shape of her ankles, and that constant pressure is what caused the leather to split.

So I think that, for our daughter, the stiffness of the Ice Flys, coupled with the loose and open ankle, is the perfect combo for her. 

Honestly, when I read that "you can't overboot with EDEAs" I was skeptical, but I'm a total believer now!

As the whether any 8 year old "needs" a $700 boot, no of course they don't.  But a good pair of boots and blades is really the only piece of equipment a skater requires, and IMO that's not the place to scrimp.  I can make up the difference in price between a top tier boot and a mediocre boot by saving on costumes, etc.  But the boots and blades are really the most important thing I buy for her.  It's such an expensive sport that a few hundred extra dollars, in the scheme of things, is not much when your child is skating 5 days a week with 2 coaches, etc.  It's just a drop in a really big and expensive bucket.  Sure, I'd love it if the best boot for her feet was a $300 Riedell, but we tried that route and it didn't work out - she hated the feel of them.  I'm just grateful that she doesn't require custom $1500+ Klings, though if that's what she needed, then that's what we'd get for her - it's about finding the best boot for the skater, and it will vary from kid to kid. 

I have seen tremendous improvement to her skating since switching to EDEAs, and seeing how much she adores them makes me happy.  She takes meticulous care of them, and I swear there are times I catch her staring at them, hugging them to her chest - she loves and appreciates them that much, lol. 

 

[EricaDer]

One more note - EDEAs are supposed to be laced "outside-in" or basically the reverse or "Russian" style.  It drove me to homicidal mania every time I had to lace up DD's skates, so I pulled them out and relaced them the regular way, and she's used them that way ever since.  There don't seem to be any detrimental effects to her skating or the wear of the boots.

That being said, one of these days I'll switch them back and try again.  I'm a natural born rule follower, so knowing that I'm lacing them "wrong" bugs me, lol.

And also, the Ice Fly has the WORST tongue hook ever invented, so I don't use it.  It's seriously AWFUL.  But her tongue never turns so skipping it hasn't had any negative effect either.

All in all, manageable complaints.   

[rd350]

Can you adopt me?! 

My parents never gave me lessons, or even a really great pair of skates! :'(

Glad you found what works and your kids are lucky to have your support!!

[littlerain]

Can you adopt me?! 

My parents never gave me lessons, or even a really great pair of skates! :'(

Glad you found what works and your kids are lucky to have your support!!

Lol me too?

So glad it is working out well for you guys! ☺️

[Nate]

As the whether any 8 year old "needs" a $700 boot, no of course they don't.  But a good pair of boots and blades is really the only piece of equipment a skater requires, and IMO that's not the place to scrimp.  I can make up the difference in price between a top tier boot and a mediocre boot by saving on costumes, etc.  But the boots and blades are really the most important thing I buy for her.  It's such an expensive sport that a few hundred extra dollars, in the scheme of things, is not much when your child is skating 5 days a week with 2 coaches, etc.  It's just a drop in a really big and expensive bucket.  Sure, I'd love it if the best boot for her feet was a $300 Riedell, but we tried that route and it didn't work out - she hated the feel of them.  I'm just grateful that she doesn't require custom $1500+ Klings, though if that's what she needed, then that's what we'd get for her - it's about finding the best boot for the skater, and it will vary from kid to kid.

This is what Edea wants you to think.  They're a business.  They're in it to make money.

Their design is ingenious.  They get to milk a lot of cash where other Boot Manufacturers can't...

But there is no benefit to getting an Ice Fly over an Overture or Chorus for an 8 year old.  It's practically money in the drain.  And I know people think the boot is higher end and it's better so it's "worth it."

But it's money down the drain.

I can't help but be frank.

"She doesn't like the feel of the $300 Riedells" is not really a logical entrance to buying $649 Ice Fly boots, considering all Edea boots are heavily padded and will feel considerably better than $300 Riedell skates, except some are actually designed for smaller lower level skaters and cost considerably less than an Ice Fly, which is nothing more than a Concerto with Quality-of-Life features for Elite Skaters (but lots of girls love the bling and patterning on them).

That's just my opinion, so take it with a bucket of salt.

I'd personally only buy Ice Flies for a skater of that level if I got them used on eBay for $200 cause someone else's child outgrew them in 6 months, they realized how much money was going to waste, and put them up there at a huge loss to recoup as much as they could from that purchase (bet they won't get another pair of those for a while! Lol)

In the end, nothing I say or care about really matters.  Only you and what you want matters.  Parents are well within their rights to purchase whatever equipment they deem necessary for their kids.

But I do think Edea's marketing and designs are deliberately tailored to exploit the "higher end is better" line of thought a lot of people coming into this sport tend to follow.  Try your best not to fall for it.

P.S.  Jackson and Edea Boots ship with Corrective Inserts in them by default, so if you don't want a boot with Heel/Arch Corrections for feet that pronate, they're a bad choice and you're probably going to want to rip those out when they come in and replace them with something like a cheap foam Riedell insole.

[EricaDer]

Wow, Nate, did you even read through my posts?  You're awfully judgmental and are jumping to lots of conclusions.

Here's how we arrived at our decision to try the Ice Fly for our daughter, for anyone who's interested:

When we looked to Edea, we initially wanted a lower model boot, but 3 different Edea fitters (skate fitter in Vancouver BC, Skates US and the fitter at a local rink who recently started carrying Edeas) recommended the Chorus, which is one level below the Ice Fly (excluding Concerto because it's in a different category altogether).  ALL 3 FITTERS SAID NO WAY TO ANY MODEL LOWER THAN CHORUS for her level (will be doing axels and first doubles in this boot).  So we ordered in the Chorus boot ($450 range, if memory serves) and it positively killed DD's ankles.  Just hurt immediately upon slipping her foot inside.  Yes, we could have punched them and modified them, but I called the SkatesUS rep and he said that we should try the Ice Fly, that he's been putting other smaller skaters into them with success, and that the dynamics of both boots is the same, but the ice fly is more comfy and skaters who dislike Chorus tend to prefer the Ice Fly.  So we ordered it and the moment she put her foot into them they fit like a glove.  It was the fist time she ever put on boots that didn't hurt. 

So, as a mom who already spends 1/4 of her paycheck and 80% of her free time on this sport and was looking at a minimum cost of $450-$600 for new boots anyway, I sprung for the extra $150 and she now has a pair of boots that never needed a single modification made to it, fits like it was custom made for her feet, is stiff enough that she will outgrow it before she ever breaks it down, is (IMO after doing lots of research) ergonomically healthier for her feet, represents the latest in skating technology, allows her to spin lower than ever before, still looks beautiful after 7 months of use (the extra $150 was just saved by not having to buy OTB tights anymore!), and had zero break in time.  She comes off the ice daily and tells me how much she loves her skates.

So yes, I'm thrilled with the Ice Fly FOR HER, and have no regrets.  My daughter isn't a rec skater or doing basic skills LTS - she needs boots that are the best fit for her feet, and this model of Edea was the one.  She is extremely dedicated to her sport and we have the means to provide her with the best skates for her feet.  Why on earth would I push her into a lower model Edea boot that causes her pain, and goes against the recommendations of 3 fitters (who all said a resounding NO WAY to the Overture)? 

Honestly, Nate, while what you suggest might work for many skaters, it's incredibly insulting for you to imply that we didn't do our diligence and that we spent extra money because Ice Flys are pretty and sparkly and we fell for some sales pitch because we enjoy wasting money. 

I was a skater and DD has been skating for several years, and we consulted with several fitters AND her coach before coming to the decision that the Ice Fly was the best boot for her feet.  And you're doing people a great disservice by suggesting that the Ice Fly is the same as the Concerto or Chorus - they are not the same.  In fact, we had another skater at our rink start out in Chorus and quickly switched to Ice Fly (same kid I mentioned in my original post).  She had constant fit, tongue and lacing problems with the Chorus (though wanted to make them work because they were more comfy and cheaper than her former Teri's) but eventually she switched to Ice Fly and never looked back.  She adores them too, and they fit her better than the Chorus ever could have.  Each Edea model has differences in shape and fit, like with any other brand.

As skaters, we all know that some brands fit some feet great, and don't work for others.  And some models within a brand can work for some skaters and not for others.  No two models of boot will be the same in fit and feel, and no single boot will work for all skaters.  It's extremely individual and takes some trial and error to find the best brand and model for one's feet.  Case in point, we have a roller skater convert who just started, and she was in the roller equivalent to the Ice Fly, so coach put her into the Ice Fly and she's been coming off the ice crying every day because the Ice Fly is hurting her, even after getting punched out.  The Ice Fly is wrong for this kid's feet and perhaps a different brand will work better.  Maybe one of the lower level Edea boots will be a better fit.  She has to figure out what works for her.

[TropicalSk8ter]

Wow, Nate, did you even read through my posts?  You're awfully judgmental and are jumping to lots of conclusions.

Here's how we arrived at our decision to try the Ice Fly for our daughter, for anyone who's interested:

When we looked to Edea, we initially wanted a lower model boot, but 3 different Edea fitters (skate fitter in Vancouver BC, Skates US and the fitter at a local rink who recently started carrying Edeas) recommended the Chorus, which is one level below the Ice Fly (excluding Concerto because it's in a different category altogether).  ALL 3 FITTERS SAID NO WAY TO ANY MODEL LOWER THAN CHORUS for her level (will be doing axels and first doubles in this boot).  So we ordered in the Chorus boot ($450 range, if memory serves) and it positively killed DD's ankles.  Just hurt immediately upon slipping her foot inside.  Yes, we could have punched them and modified them, but I called the SkatesUS rep and he said that we should try the Ice Fly, that he's been putting other smaller skaters into them with success, and that the dynamics of both boots is the same, but the ice fly is more comfy and skaters who dislike Chorus tend to prefer the Ice Fly.  So we ordered it and the moment she put her foot into them they fit like a glove.  It was the fist time she ever put on boots that didn't hurt. 

So, as a mom who already spends 1/4 of her paycheck and 80% of her free time on this sport and was looking at a minimum cost of $450-$600 for new boots anyway, I sprung for the extra $150 and she now has a pair of boots that never needed a single modification made to it, fits like it was custom made for her feet, is stiff enough that she will outgrow it before she ever breaks it down, is (IMO after doing lots of research) ergonomically healthier for her feet, represents the latest in skating technology, allows her to spin lower than ever before, still looks beautiful after 7 months of use (the extra $150 was just saved by not having to buy OTB tights anymore!), and had zero break in time.  She comes off the ice daily and tells me how much she loves her skates.

So yes, I'm thrilled with the Ice Fly FOR HER, and have no regrets.  My daughter isn't a rec skater or doing basic skills LTS - she needs boots that are the best fit for her feet, and this model of Edea was the one.  She is extremely dedicated to her sport and we have the means to provide her with the best skates for her feet.  Why on earth would I push her into a lower model Edea boot that causes her pain, and goes against the recommendations of 3 fitters (who all said a resounding NO WAY to the Overture)? 

Honestly, Nate, while what you suggest might work for many skaters, it's incredibly insulting for you to imply that we didn't do our diligence and that we spent extra money because Ice Flys are pretty and sparkly and we fell for some sales pitch because we enjoy wasting money. 

I was a skater and DD has been skating for several years, and we consulted with several fitters AND her coach before coming to the decision that the Ice Fly was the best boot for her feet.  And you're doing people a great disservice by suggesting that the Ice Fly is the same as the Concerto or Chorus - they are not the same.  In fact, we had another skater at our rink start out in Chorus and quickly switched to Ice Fly (same kid I mentioned in my original post).  She had constant fit, tongue and lacing problems with the Chorus (though wanted to make them work because they were more comfy and cheaper than her former Teri's) but eventually she switched to Ice Fly and never looked back.  She adores them too, and they fit her better than the Chorus ever could have.  Each Edea model has differences in shape and fit, like with any other brand.

As skaters, we all know that some brands fit some feet great, and don't work for others.  And some models within a brand can work for some skaters and not for others.  No two models of boot will be the same in fit and feel, and no single boot will work for all skaters.  It's extremely individual and takes some trial and error to find the best brand and model for one's feet.  Case in point, we have a roller skater convert who just started, and she was in the roller equivalent to the Ice Fly, so coach put her into the Ice Fly and she's been coming off the ice crying every day because the Ice Fly is hurting her, even after getting punched out.  The Ice Fly is wrong for this kid's feet and perhaps a different brand will work better.  Maybe one of the lower level Edea boots will be a better fit.  She has to figure out what works for her.

You are a bomb skating mother!!!   Keep it up!   And I definitely agree with edea models being different.  I tried the chorus and HATED it!  Then Tried on the concertos and I LOVED it.  Edea definitely makes each boot with a different shape and feel, which it shouldn't be that way IMO.

[Nate]

 

[EricaDer]

Clearly Nate is the EDEA expert and knows what fits everyone's unique feet better than the fitters, the coaches or the parents.  I'm sure Nate has personally tried on EVERY model of EDEA in order to determine that they're all EXACTLY THE SAME, and clearly Nate subscribes to the "good enough" school of skate fitting.

Sorry Nate, I guess some of us just want the best fit for our skates.  We can simply agree to disagree, lol. 

[Isk8NYC]

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Topic closed.