How much can you blame the ice conditions?

[spiralina]

Just wondering.

On clear, soft ice I skate fairly well. I may not be super-elegant, but I look competent and I'm working on Moves up to Juvenile equivalent. I skate powerfully and fast.

But when ice conditions are less good I feel like a totally different person. Today I came  back from a demoralising skate at another rink, with ice so hard and mashed up that I could barely hold an edge. I couldn't centre a spin, my posture was all over the place and I slipped on jumps. Yet other people there - even beginners - seemed to be coping better than me.

It makes sense that better ice = better skating but I feel like, at this stage, I should at least be able to MANAGE on bad ice, not have so huge a contrast.

Any thoughts...?

[FigureSpins]

If you only skate on fast, pristine ice, you don't get as difficult a workout.  Everything comes easier.

I started out skating on outdoor ice, which is hard and slow (not to mention FREEZING) so I had to work for every bit of speed.  I have a lot of power as a result and that training lasted a long time.

Our crowd of adult skaters used to go to different rinks to skate and you learned which rink had hard ice, which one had slow ice and which was fast and great for spins.  You had to adjust your skating techniques to make everything work under different conditions.

So, don't write off a rink with poor (for you) ice - think of it as a challenge.  I used to coach with a guy from the Ukraine who said that we're really fortunate in the US to have such nice ice to skate on.

[Skittl1321]

To answer you question: A LOT.  A TON.

I blame the ice A LOT.  It's ALWAYS the ice's fault.  It's too hard, too soft, too brittle, too wet, someone put a big rut in it, there's a hole right where I wanted to do my loop... it goes on and on.  

The problem is- when you compete or test, you don't know what kind of ice you are going to get.  So even if it is the ice's fault, you have to learn to deal with it.

I spin best on beautiful clear ice- a rut can ruin a good spin, but perfer to jump on more messed up ice...I don't like to jump when skating fast, and you skate faster on good ice.

If the ice is very bad- I will not even try 8-step mohawk.  That is my limit.  My coach understands.  He doesn't really want to take me to the hospital, and I'm so uncomfortable with the move, it isn't worth adding another bad element to the equation.

[AgnesNitt]

To answer you question: A LOT.  A TON.

I blame the ice A LOT.  It's ALWAYS the ice's fault.  It's too hard, too soft, too brittle, too wet, someone put a big rut in it, there's a hole right where I wanted to do my loop... it goes on and on. 

The problem is- when you compete or test, you don't know what kind of ice you are going to get.  So even if it is the ice's fault, you have to learn to deal with it.

I spin best on beautiful clear ice- a rut can ruin a good spin, but perfer to jump on more messed up ice...I don't like to jump when skating fast, and you skate faster on good ice.

My friend the Big Guy says it best, "The Ice Doesn't Care."  A skater just has to learn to skate around it as a problem. I've seen ice so snowed up that I could barely move on it, but a more experienced skater just goes out and does expert graceful figures. It's a matter of technique.

[Skittl1321]

The ice may not care, but the ice is just a jerk.  It's still its fault!

[karne]

I think a lot of it is psychological.

I try not to blame the ice. I always blame myself - I stayed up too late the night before and didn't get enough sleep, I wasn't trying hard enough, I wasn't focusing on engaging my muscles enough, and so on.

I don't blame the ice because I know that in summer, the ice will have an inch of water on the surface and that's a non-negotiable. As soon as the temperature outside creeps over 30 degrees, the water appears, and increases with the temperature outside. There's nothing I can do about that. What I CAN do something about is the way I skate and how hard I'm working.

The one time I DID blame the ice was when the Zamboni was doing something so weird...it was like skating on corrugated iron. Literally. To the point that everyone's skates were making audible knocking sounds just gliding! It was so bad that the coaches told the Nationals-level skaters not to pull out the big jumps (especially as the Senior girl was there - she took one heck of a fall trying to set up  her triple sal, and after that no-one was keen anyway!) Everyone's spins were wobbly, and the session turned into one giant Moves session.

[sarahspins]

It's a matter of technique.

I agree.. the only thing that truly bothers me is when the ice has an uneven cut (like when the zam blade is off or something, it leaves little 1/2"+ high "steps" everywhere the zam goes and it's really irritating to skate on) or there are condensation bumps (those can get pretty big) because they haven't resurfaced since the night before.. or the condensers are out and there are puddles or the ice is slushy all over (part frozen and part water and feels like skating on gravel).  Anything else is really not that big of a deal.

I have simply caught a weird edge on pristine ice as many times or more as I've been caught in a rut and could clearly blame the rut.. so I really am at the point where I won't blame the ice, it's usually me.  I've never been caught in a rut/hole/whatever landing a jump so that doesn't really scare me, and honestly if you have enough speed going into a jump, whatever you hit on the landing won't matter if the landing is strong.

All that said, I tend to skate on freshly resurfaced sessions with very few skaters (and all of us feel like it's crowded when there are 10 people on the ice) so it's what I am used to now, but I remember when I was learning to skate (mostly on publics) that clean ice really intimidated me a lot just because I wasn't used to it.. it seems scarier than it really was.  I skate once (sometimes twice) a week on trashed public ice with the kids and the condition of the ice doesn't bother me as much as the number of skaters going in random directions with random skating abilities.

[AgnesNitt]

The ice may not care, but the ice is just a jerk.  It's still its fault!

Even expert skaters like good ice. And expert skaters hate bad ice.

Good ice: My dance coach and I got on freestyle one day, and he kept skating around making happy noises. It was really good ice. Second best I've ever skated on.

Bad Ice: The Oldest Practicing Skating Coach In The World (I think she's 80) was giving me a lesson and got so mad at the horrible ice, she stormed off the ice to give the zamboni driver a piece of her mind.

I agree.. the only thing that truly bothers me is when the ice has an uneven cut (like when the zam blade is off or something, it leaves little 1/2"+ high "steps" everywhere the zam goes and it's really irritating to skate on) or there are condensation bumps (those can get pretty big) because they haven't resurfaced since the night before.. or the condensers are out and there are puddles or the ice is slushy all over (part frozen and part water and feels like skating on gravel).  Anything else is really not that big of a deal.

The corrugated iron ice: we had that on one section of the rink once. I just refused to go there. I don't have the technique to deal with it.

Ice bumps: Didn't Jim Stanmore once post a picture in the old forum, of an ice bump next to his skate? The bump was higher than the boot sole. It was more of an ice mountain.

[irenar5]

I personally like the ice when it has been skated on just a little as opposed to just freshly cut.    It helps me judge the surface better and it feels more stable. Go figure...
 When I first started skating I liked softer ice,  now I feel better on harder.  I keep my blades ROH at 1/2, so on softer ice they really dig in and slow me down.  But ice can be too brittle sometimes and then I don't feel as secure with toe jumps. 

[sk8lady]

I would like to blame the ice but we never seem to have optimal ice so I'm not sure how I would skate on it! When we have beautiful, clear ice, it's because there's going to be a big hockey thing so they drop the ice temp way down for "faster ice" which means it's harder for my sharpened-once-every-three-months skates to hold an edge after a jump. I do spin faster, though.

When we have crappy ice, it's so rutted that it's virtually impossible to spin without falling into a rut. Some of the zamboni operators don't know how to keep the ice from getting pitted or covered with pimples. Some of them don't get the water hot enough and it leaves zamboni tracks across the ice.

Maybe I will just blame my equipment...

[Isk8NYC]

I always blame the equipment. 

[LilJen]

It's always the ice's fault, or the equipment's fault. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with my crappy skating. 

[Query]

Smooth ice is nice!

I've known skaters who practice at many rinks - smooth, rough, hard (cold) and soft ice - so they can compete anywhere. Yuk!

[hopskipjump]

Dd doesn't blame the ice unless it's unsafe (the one where it was so thin sand was exposed) or if she is dripping wet and has to change gloves (and she has the rest of the session in soaking wet pants).  She thinks the bumps from the drips are funny (but she knows where they are so it's not a surprise).  She has to be flexible because there are 4 sheets of ice she skates on regularly and they all have their own quirks. 

[techskater]

It's best off to be comfortable in all kinds of situations.  One year for Adult Mids, the ice wasn't cut pretty much ALL day.  The Champ Masters Jr/Sr Ladies event was skated on a mess.  They didn't blame the ice, though...

[alejeather]

I blame both myself and the ice for the day I broke my ankle.
The ice was very uneven (read: hilly) and I'm not sure that going over the edge of one of those hills during my spin isn't what set off the accident. I tried to pull back towards center to avoid falling, but my foot got stuck the other way. My fault? The ice's fault? Both, I guess.

Either way, I want to have learned from it so in the future I: don't skate on ice I don't think I can handle, know when to fall instead of doing more damage by "correcting" it. If I *ever* get back on the ice. Sigh.

[Bunny Hop]

Corrugated ice: they managed to do that once at the rink I learnt at as a teenager. As that rink was also partly in a tent, so the ice was usually covered in water in places due to the heat, that was not a pleasant session (and the fact that I still remember this many years later should tell you something about the ice conditions!).

I'm with whoever said they like the ice when it's been skated on a little bit, rather than being freshly resurfaced. I agree it somehow feels more secure once it's slightly roughed up, but not too much!

It's funny how you get used to the ice at your home rink though, and how other surfaces feel different in some indefinable way. That's when I start blaming the ice conditions - the ice doesn't feel right at the 'other' rink.

[turnip]

I've skated on a few rinks, but my first away from home competition the ice was really weird and I couldn't jump at all! Someone else had the same problem and was freaking out. Obviously people could jump, and all the kids from my rink (I didn't tell them I found it so weird, didn't wanna put them off) did just fine.

[spiralina]

I think a lot of it is psychological.

I think this might be right. I also find that if I start off on OK ice which then becomes terrible, I can cope a lot better.

I skate once (sometimes twice) a week on trashed public ice with the kids and the condition of the ice doesn't bother me as much as the number of skaters going in random directions with random skating abilities.

I have to skate mostly on publics these days (start work too early to make a freestyle). I was referring to publics (none of the rinks I skate at have restrictions on figure skating on publics - it's a "common sense" approach). At one of these rinks a busy public may not be resurfaced for over 5 hours. By the end it is a mess, and you still have to watch out for the random cross-cutting kids. It's a big test of patience!

It's best off to be comfortable in all kinds of situations.  One year for Adult Mids, the ice wasn't cut pretty much ALL day.  The Champ Masters Jr/Sr Ladies event was skated on a mess.  They didn't blame the ice, though...

They also have much better technique than I could ever hope to 

But seriously, no resurface??

[Skittl1321]

It's best off to be comfortable in all kinds of situations.  One year for Adult Mids, the ice wasn't cut pretty much ALL day.  The Champ Masters Jr/Sr Ladies event was skated on a mess.  They didn't blame the ice, though...

Somehow I doubt that not a single competitor bemoaned that they didn't skate their best because the ice sucked.

Whenever ice is bad at adult nats, it is all over the boards (melting...brittle etc)

[Doubletoe]

It clearly does make a difference, as evidenced by the fact that I finally landed some nice, solid axels this week when I skated on a rink with good ice!  My usual rink has very hard, brittle, hilly ice, and not only does it make me feel like I can't get a secure edge for axel and double salchow takeoffs, but it also makes me feel exhausted by the end of my program.  I need deeper knee bend and more pushing to skate on hard, hilly ice, so it's probably good that I'm used to that instead of being used to the good stuff.

[Query]

Somehow I doubt that not a single competitor bemoaned that they didn't skate their best because the ice sucked.

What a cool sentence! A great exercise for school kids.

Make them analyze and diagram the grammatical structure, and extract the semantics.

Ask them if it is a triple or or a quadruple negative.

BTW, no offense intended. I just had to stare at it a moment to understand. Maybe several moments.

I guess you believe that at least one competitor complained that ice conditions interfered with his or her performance.

I wonder if anyone reads skatingforums.com through a computer translation program. It would be fun to feed the sentence into a computer translation program. Then tell it to translate the result back into English.

[Skittl1321]

It's possible if you did diagram it out- the sentence is wrong.  I'm not a grammar person...
I did type bemoan and think "I wonder if I need another word" but couldn't think of one.

Yes, I think the skaters complained.  Maybe privately.  But NO ONE likes bad ice, and I doubt they skated their best on it, and I'm sure they were annoyed about it.

For fun, I used google translate to put it into Spanish, then back into English.

Somehow I doubt that a competitor not only lamented that did not skate her best, because the ice cake.

[Isk8NYC]

Cake?

[jjane45]

Christmas time! I blame the ice a lot for weak spins, not so much for anything else.