Verbally ....Unpleasant.... Coaches?

[Hanca]

Icefrog, I would hope that the coach shouts correction if it is needed. But what if the jump you didn't land is something completely easy, something that you have been landing for ages and suddenly it is not happening. The chances are that you know exactly what you are suddenly doing wrong, so you don't need to be reminded that you for example slightly changed the timing. You know it, you just somehow suddenly don't do it right. And you need to find your timing yourself.

[Sierra]

If yelling is not your coaching style - then don't do it. If you don't like coaches who yell - then don't hire one.

Exactly what I was thinking. I like my loud coach. Other people can have their nice coaches.

If your coach is going to pretend that he/she haven't noticed, you may start wondering whether he/she bothers to look at all (and if he/she does look, whether he/she cares at all). Whereas if your coach shouts at Sierra 'just land the damn thing', she will know that her coach cares and is trying to encourage her. 

I didn't realize this before, but you're absolutely right. I know the days that she quietly moves on to a different element are the days I feel most hopeless.

[TheAquarian]

Yes I am a skater. If I can't land something and I keep falling or putting my foot down or not rotating the jump or whatever my coach would never say "land the damn thing" she would tell me that my head is in the wrong place, I'm doing that weird arm thing again, my take off edge was wrong, I was swinging my free leg into the jump, I dropped my free hip. I could go on.

My coach does sometimes shout, and it is very encouraging and done because she cares about us, but when she shouts its a correction or if we do something super fantastic, like someone lands a double axel. I guess its why there are so many coaches so everyone can pick one with a style that works for them.

I took some time away because of final exams, and I'm kind of surprised to see how much this thread has grown.   That said,  I agree with IceFrog completely.    Shouting is NOT helpful, constructive feedback IS.  When I attempt to do anything on the ice, my goal is NOT to mess it up.  Anyone who tells me I'm doing something on purpose can and will be fired on the spot because it is an insult to my capacity to use my time on the ice effectively, and is extremely presumptive for someone else to claim they know exactly how I am thinking (especially when they are wrong).  I don't need an ice god, I need a person who can effectively show me how to skate.

Sometimes I know what needs to be done, however can't seem to wrap my mind around a block that prevents me from doing it correctly.   Is yelling going to fix that?  No, it's going to make me spiteful, angry, and non-productive.   If the way something that is being explained clearly isn't working, then I need and expect my coach to take an active role in the learning process and come to the same point from a different angle to help me overcome the block.   I am not paying someone for incompetence, and if the only way they know how to try and get their point across is hollering useless comments about the students's intentions and going home for the entire rink to hear, then they are incompetent.

More Information:

Some people have said that we don't know the whole situation which is true, however as the only first hand eyewitness,  I can say that these girls were not the rude, uppity or rebellious types.  You should have seen the looks on their faces;  at least two looked like they were about to cry.   I'm sorry but there is no excuse for that.  Skating is something that should be fun and enriching, not something that sends students during lessons to tears.    Yes, people are serious about competing and such,  but the fact is if a person thinks the sport sucks enough to feel upset, inadequate, shameful, or any other variety of unpleasantness on a regular basis, then the person SHOULD NOT BE COMPETING and drop the sport ASAP.

Look at some of the elite Olympic skaters over the past 10-15 years like Kim Yuna,  Kristi Yamaguchi,   Nancy Kerrigan, or Michelle Kwan.   Did ANY of them look like they were going out on to the ice with a noose around their neck?      That is how some of students looked after I heard shrieking from half way across a full sized rink (I was going around the perimeter of the rink).   Meanwhile, the parents all sat around a table behind a nearly sound proof barrier drinking coffee and nibbling coffee cake.

I personally don't believe this coach should be permitted to teach children anymore, at least not without extensive anger management therapy.

[jumpingbeansmom]

More Information:

Look at some of the elite Olympic skaters over the past 10-15 years like Kim Yuna,  Kristi Yamaguchi,   Nancy Kerrigan, or Michelle Kwan.   Did ANY of them look like they were going out on to the ice with a noose around their neck?      That is how some of students looked after I heard shrieking from half way across a full sized rink (I was going around the perimeter of the rink).   Meanwhile, the parents all sat around a table behind a nearly sound proof barrier drinking coffee and nibbling coffee cake.

I personally don't believe this coach should be permitted to teach children anymore, at least not without extensive anger management therapy.

You really think those skaters have never been shouted at??  I'd bet my kids Klingbeil's that they have been... plenty

[TheAquarian]

I didn't say that.  I said that they didn't look like they were mourning the sport rather than savoring it.    My issue is with coaches that can't seem to give any kind of instruction beyond shrieking, and leaving not one, but a series of pupils looking like they are about to cry on the ice.

Some kids parents need to realize that their kids are NOT tools to be exploited in the pursuit of their own lost dreams.    So how about betting something besides your KID'S skates.   They are human beings not property.

[jumpingbeansmom]

I didn't say that.  I said that they didn't look like they were mourning the sport rather than savoring it.    My issue is with coaches that can't seem to give any kind of instruction beyond shrieking, and leaving not one, but a series of pupils looking like they are about to cry on the ice.

Some kids parents need to realize that their kids are NOT tools to be exploited in the pursuit of their own lost dreams.    So how about betting something besides your KID'S skates.   They are human beings not property.

ok... of course, but I don't think the two things are mutually exclusive...  kids sometimes being yelled at, and even crying from time to time AND still loving it overall.  Who said kids are or should be property.   I am sure the coaches and the elite skaters have all had moments that looked ugly getting to where they are.

[Hanca]

The Aquarian, you obviously feel very strongly about shouting coaches. The bottom line is, people are all different. If you notice, in this thread there are people who are very strongly against it (e.g. you, Sk8Dreams and others), and then there are people who do admit that it works for them, (Sierra, me and others). I think it would be best to accept that as people are different, everyone needs something else. I still think it is seriously unfair to brand every louder coach as verbally abusive, because after all if you or  the parents of the children pay for the lesson, they have the choice who they want to to teach them. As someone above said, if you don't want such coach, don't have him/her.

It feels to me that you are trying to dictate how other people should bring up their children. I do believe that some people may prefer to have stricter coaches because perhaps their style of bringing up their children is also in stricter way.  Why are you making assumptions that they are treating their kids as tools to be exploited? Why do you assume that their kids will grow up somehow damaged by the experience? In each society there are slightly different rules on how to bring up the children, but you seem to imply that your own must be the best. I am not saying that you don't have the right to have your opinion, but maybe apply your opinion on coaches when looking for a coach for yourself, but don't expect everyone choosing a coach in accordance to your opinion when it is about their kids.

 

[davincisop]

Personally for me, my coach is a combo of both. She can be quite and observe very well, but she will shout when necessary, but it's not mean shouting. For example, doing my crossstrokes I'll hear "BEND KNEE, UP, BEND KNEE, UP" and jumping "PULL IN".  Just pleasant reminders because she knows I try not to think when I skate so I don't OVERTHING things, but she yells so it grabs my attention.

[Clarice]

We may be combining a couple of things in this thread.  A loud coach is not necessarily a problem, if what they are yelling is instructional or motivational stuff like "Arms in!" or "Push!".  If what they're saying is more like "You idiot, why can't you do that right?", it's a problem even if it's being said quietly.  Sensitive kids can't deal with shouting in any form, because they hear the tone as harsh and angry even if it isn't meant that way.  Adults can evaluate for themselves what works for them and choose a coach accordingly, but parents need to be aware of a coach's teaching style and make sure it's a good match for their child.  True abuse should not be tolerated by anyone.

[Isk8NYC]

Perfect ending - thanks, Clarice!