Better design for rental skate blades

[AgnesNitt]

This is just a thought experiment.

Suppose we could invent a 'safety blade' for rental skates. What would we do?

The blades on rental skates have the traditional toe rake and drag pick. No one needs to jump in rentals. If you're jumping, you should have your own skates so you don't need the toe rake.

But rental skaters need something to help them stop, that's the drag pick's job. But a lot of men hesitate to skate in rental skates because they're 'girl skates'.  What if the blade didn't have the figure skate look, but retained the stopping function.

I've toyed with the idea of keeping the drop pick, but in front of the drop pick there would be a serrated curve with the points facing forward but rising on the curve.

This would primarily be decorative. It just wouldn't look like a toe rake. I think with the serrated curve picks you'd really have to work to get up on the picks, since the drop pick is really doing the job, the other stuff is just there to make people think of it as  a toe stop.

Maybe there might be new skills with a new front end, what the roller skaters call 'jam skate', that appeal sto men.

Yeah, I know this is 'out there', it's just for fun

[icedancer]

I saw a pair of skates at the rink this year that I had never seen before - they were like a "Softec" type of skate but the blade looked like a hockey blade AND it has serrations like you are describing.  I thought it was a great blade for a beginning skater.

It would be great if someone could invent something to help all of those public session skaters - I fear for them.

Training wheels? 

Of course there were those double runners in the past! I haven't seen those I don't think lately.

[Loops]

Ack- the double runners.  Our rink has them for children below a certain shoe size (think toddlers).  Those things are awful- training wheels indeed.  I was so glad I always found a way to not put my kids in them.

This is an interesting thought experiment.  But I wonder also if just giving the skates a light (light light) sharpen now and again might not make a dramatic difference for the users.

Might beginners depend more on the actual toe-rake to stop- i.e. digging the whole toe?  I usually see them using the "crash-into-the-boards/another skater" method, so I doubt the rake has much effect.

[Bill_S]

 But a lot of men hesitate to skate in rental skates because they're 'girl skates'.  What if the blade didn't have the figure skate look...

I wish that modern men would stop being such narcissistic sissies and get over irrational fears.

I'm all for thought experiments though. Serrations in a blade are fairly inexpensive to add compared to a real toe pick, and are all that a true beginner really needs.

There is one thing about our local rink though - we have a lot of LTS kids who stay with rentals far longer than they should (were in Appalachia, wages are low), and a number of them learn jumps on the rentals. They actually need a real toe pick.

Our rink also offers rental hockey skates for kids who are into that, and there are a number of hockey classes.

The cost of warehousing and maintaining two types of skates is not cheap though, so a single generic skate would have some financial appeal to cash-strapped rinks.

Side note: When I'm done with a freestyle session, a younger hockey crowd takes the ice afterward. I'm unlacing skates while the 10-year olds are putting on their hockey gear. I've noticed that some of the kids look curiously at the largish toe picks on my skates - which do look formidable. If they ask about them, I explain "They're called toe picks. They're very manly, aren't they?"

Just putting the bug in their ear that there's another way to view them.

[Query]

In practice, hockey blades are hard for beginners to balance, because it's easy to roll forward or back on rounded off tips and tails - so maybe you have a flattened rocker tail and tip instead of shaping it exactly like a hockey blade.

All beginner style figure skates already have short and far-forwards toe picks. And most are have a flattened rocker in the center for stability. And some are close to the ice, so it isn't as much like balancing on stilts as some skates are.

Lots of pseudo-hockey style skates with toe picks have been made - like these.

(OK, the picks on those are too far forwards and microscopic to be of much use, and they rounded off the tail like a hockey skate, but you get the idea.)

I'm not sure what they mean by "The skates adjust to fit the foot with a push button", but anything that would help rental skates fit better would be a great idea.

I've seen inflatable fit skates advertised too. Sounds great, if it can be made durable.

I think a large part of the safety and balance problems that new skaters have has to do with not getting the skates tight enough. I loved the old blue rental skates with ski-boot style closures.

Oh, I've got it: Paint the picks red and black, to emphasize the coolness factor, like the angry jaws you see painted on some aircraft!

Vampire teeth would be cool too. Goth skates!

And claim they are tungsten tool-steel (or surgical steel, which isn't far from the truth for stainless blades), like the tips of ultra high end screw drivers.

And maybe create an extra wide K-pick to emphasize that special angry tip, and/or make the pick adjustable like the oft-promised Skateology blades.

I wonder if a wide blade would be easier or harder to balance...

[jlspink22]

I think a large part of the safety and balance problems that new skaters have has to do with not getting the skates tight enough. I loved the old blue rental skates with ski-boot style closures.

The first time I got on the ice in 10 years? On rental skates, my ankles kept falling in and my feet were hurting like crazy. My 4 yr old kept falling down.  Then it dawned on me the skates were far too loose. Duh! I can't tell you how many times I see partially laced skates, loose skates, too big skates and the kids can barely move. Usually if the parents seem normal or my daughter is talking to the kid, I'll casually say something. I'm always worried someone is going to twist/break an ankle/bone.

[pegasus99]

Whenever I see loose skates, I typically offer to re-tie. I do explain that it's going to be snug, it's supposed to be snug, and it's not going to feel like a gym shoe.

90% of the time, I see the kids I just re-tied off the ice and loosening their boots pretty much right back to where they were. Too loose and caving ankles, which I guess hurts less than a tight shoe. They say it was "too tight and pinching!"

I dunno, I think Rentals in general have so little padding and support, it's a tough call on how to make them better. Ideally, I think rinks should offer the Soft Boot Skates for Rentals, not the Flimsy Brown things or the Blue Plastic things. I think it's hard to mess up tying a Soft Boot Skate, IMO.

[Loops]

Side note: When I'm done with a freestyle session, a younger hockey crowd takes the ice afterward. I'm unlacing skates while the 10-year olds are putting on their hockey gear. I've noticed that some of the kids look curiously at the largish toe picks on my skates - which do look formidable. If they ask about them, I explain "They're called toe picks. They're very manly, aren't they?"

Haha.  I show them the scar on my wrist!  I have an MK professional pick imprint from when I fell during a program practice at 13 or 14 years old, kicked myself getting up, and didn't feel it/notice until I finished my routine (it was cold, and I was pumped).  The scar has faded a lot, but I missed the main artery by a couple of millimeters.  I whip it out to remind the younglings that toe picks, if used improperly, can literally take a chunk out of you!  Unlike wussy hockey blades......

On another, and tangential note.  I keep thinking about the kids in your rink, Bill_S.  Sticking with the rentals as long as they do shows serious dedication.  I've mentioned it on other threads, but my skating club has an army of skates in standard width, covering most sizes, that they rent out to club members.  I think they're mostly mystique/artistes, but they have a couple other brands, too.  The going rate is 70Euros/year, plus sharpenings, which is waaaaaaaay less than the cost of a new pair of skates.  Some skaters in higher levels even are still using them (although they really should pony up....we aren't in Appalachia, and they're crushing those skates).  But it made a huge difference for my own kids and really allows a lot of people to get into skating who otherwise wouldn't be able to.  I'm sure the inital outlay was staggering, but at this point, the club just tops off, replacing skates as necessary, and because they buy in bulk, they get pretty good prices.    Parents also leave a deposit of.....I think 100/150?? Euros in case the skates never come back.

Is this something your club could try to do?  In our case, you have to be a member of the club to even take group lessons, so it's a closed audience.  Plus we're dance only, so no-one's jumping in those.  But I'm sure there's a way to modify the model to fit your rink/club's needs.  Perhaps find some nice donors to help with financing (if the Uni is nearby there should be some options), and a skate shop that is willing to cut them a deal?  They could even assess the parents for a portion of the fee, but it would be nice for that to be as minimal as possible.

[Query]

not the Flimsy Brown things or the Blue Plastic things.

Someone told me it's been 15 or 20 years since the Blue Plastic things have been made. Given the enormous # of hours that rental skates get, and the kind of treatment they get, if your rink still has them, there is a strong possibility they are falling apart, and may be pretty bad skates by now. I like them because they happened to fit me pretty well (if I stuffed toilet paper under the part of the insoles I needed  ), and I loved the ski-boot closures.

----

Some day you may be able to walk up to the rental counter in your stocking feet, step onto a foot scanner like the one on the "Dr. Scholl's" insole selector, have your feet scanned by a laser profiler, and a 3D printer will create perfectly fitting boots and blades. And you will get to keep them, and that will be the end of all the custom boot makers. 

A few years later, the 3D printer will be replaced by a Star Trek "replicator".

Well, maybe... It's a bit more complicated than that, because you need to take into account your safe range of motion, and the amount and types of support you need, but for beginners, it may be good enough.

Did I mention that for a few extra dollars, servo mechanisms will allow you to automatically do every possible skating trick? Coaches will love that.