skatingforums
On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: cameocooper on July 27, 2016, 03:26:58 PM
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For the last few times I have attended public sessions at my home rink it has been virtual unusable for anything more than stroking and turns. I attended my on Monday night during the school break while sparsely attended there was a guy who actually works at the rink with a pucks and stick taking shots. I saw the puck hut into a skater. People playing around with frame and just general chaos. Again I attended the public session after my lts lesson mid week was about 20 frames on the ice with people who could skate if they tried and again chaos. People everywhere. Wanted to know of this is common during public sessions to have no rules or ice Marshalls. I can only make figure session as I am adult skater and work about 30 min away from the rink and the sessions are made mainly for school kids so public sessions are my only practice time. I know I have a code of conduct mainly no camels spins and no jumps higher than single loop and seems the public have to respect for anyone and rink does nothing to foster a safe environment. Usually when there is more than five frames I just go home and without practice as I have been hit by frames to many time, once hit a frame with my neck hitting the metal bar of the frame. Just wanted to know if it's reasonable to expect dome kind of order.
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Oh, ugh. That's really too bad. Our rink has a corner blocked off with foam bumpers and the walkers are supposed to stay over there. The rink guards are pretty good about making sure they do, though every so often one escapes. And most of the guards are pretty good about stopping dangerous behaviors, but not all the time. Sticks and pucks aren't allowed, and they're pretty good about keeping the middle clear for figure skating (though I've sometimes had to chase kids out as they cut through). I even had one overzealous guard tell me I wasn't allowed to go backwards (at a snail's pace, along the wall) on a session with about four other people on it. (In fairness, this was because she had just told a higher level figure skater that he couldn't go backwards and she didn't want there to be a double standard.) So no, what you're seeing wouldn't be normal at my usual rink or the couple others I've visited. I wonder whether there's a way you could let the rink know that they're losing business (yours and maybe others) because they're allowing an unsafe environment?
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I'm sure that every rink is different. I've been on public sessions in other cities where backward skating is prohibited - but you wouldn't want to because of the pressing crowds anyway. Our rink officially forbids jumps and spins, but they are fairly reasonable about it depending upon the crowd. My favorite rink in another city allows all sorts of moves, jumps and spins, but no pucks, during the lunch skates. It's pure heaven.
It does sound like your rink is out of control though. I'm not sure what to tell you, except try writing a real letter (not an email) to someone in management saying how you don't feel safe with the current situation. Cite days and times where you have observed the wild behaviour so that they may know who to talk to about it.
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My ice rink is pretty chaotic too. All the same issues. Weekend/night/school-holidays public sessions are totally unusable for practicing on. Luckily I can attend the weekday morning sessions which are 90% low to medium level adult figure skaters, which is bliss.
My roller rink is a total free-for-all. No guards ever. Worst thing is the wannabe hockey kids playing tag (or outright hockey!). But thankfully that's relatively rare. At one point they had a trend of kids bringing three wheeled trike things. Which by themselves aren't all that much of a problem, except that they're usually ridden by kids who can't skate AT ALL, and thus are totally oblivious to such things as "the general flow" or cutting people off or watching where they are going. At one point I resorted to making a fake facebook account and left negative feedback saying "not a safe place to learn to skate", listing these reasons. Which may actually have helped, because things have improved a bit lately. I'm pretty sure if I had just complained in person I would have been politely blown off.
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My rink is clockwise only, center coned off, usually guards (even when every skater on the ice is freestyle level), and if you know the guards you can usually signal them to a problem to fix it. Jump and spins okay in the center.
ON the other hand, there are other rinks in the region that reverse the direction of skating at half time.
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Agnes - clockwise only?
Are you sure that isn't a typo and you meant counterclockwise?
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Agnes - clockwise only?
Are you sure that isn't a typo and you meant counterclockwise?
Yes, you're right.
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Where do you skate?
Completely varies by rink in our area. Often on how crowded the session is.
At the rink where I play rink guard, we generally don't allow sticks or pucks, or any other moving objects, or playing keep-away, or fighting, on public sessions. But a lot of other rules seem to depend on who plays rink guard. We are mostly pretty accommodating, but some little kids, and big "kids", like to push things to the limits of safety and harassment, and we have to intervene. I and at least one other guard reverse directions mid-session, though I won't if a speed skater is present, because modern short and long track speed skates are only designed to go CCW. OTOH, the figure skating director doesn't want us to allow skaters to sit in the hockey boxes, which I don't understand, and only she is supposed to allow novice skaters to use walkers. Management selects the music.
It helps that we have a lot of hockey sessions, and freestyle/dance sessions, which gives the hockey and high freestyle and dance skaters better opportunities. (There are some good consequences to having multiple ice surfaces.)
At one local rink, a skater wasn't allowed to practice triple jumps during crowded public sessions. On uncrowded mid-day weekday publics, as at many rinks, she would have been fine. If your hours allow you to come to uncrowded mid-day weekday public sessions, you might be surprised how accommodating they can be.
I think any competent manager would recognize the liability problems inherent in mixing full hockey play with novice skaters, and other skaters not wearing protective gear, and would put a stop to it if asked.
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I think I am going have to write strongly worded letter to management. I did used to attend mud morning sessions when I was in college and didn't the finances for a coach I now have a coach but are unable to practice as much as I would like after the last few weeks are winder in if UT is worth continuing to skate.. I just not want them knowing who is complaining as I belong to the club. I think the main problem is there is no rink guards at all.
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Our adult public sessions have no rink guards so it can be a free for all, however most of the day time sessions are OK. Depending on the people there they may reverse the skating direction. It's supposed to be adult only but every so often some parent appears with young kids who get in everyone's way and cause problems for some of the older skaters who don't see too well.
Evenings are a different story as there tends to be a lot of 20 somethings who kick water bottles around, form chains, and scare everyone else.
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I think the main problem is there is no rink guards at all.
Is there a manager present? Or at least someone who takes your money?
The manager is a great place to start, but if that fails, and it is run by a local government, or is a business, there is probably someone concerned with potential legal and financial liabilities.
Just don't take it to an extreme. You don't want the rink to close down. Stay calm and reasonable, stay within the system, and suggest affordable solutions.
E.g., lots of rinks don't have rink guards when it's not busy. A monitored video camera, or one which maintains a recording (there probably already is one) can verify the problem, and be used to identify unsafe individuals, at lower cost.
Or offer to be a rink guard? :)
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I've seen all kinds of things. At the rink where I skate the most, the official rules are no hockey pucks or other objects that could potentially trip people, no forming chains, no shoving, only jump and spin in the center. Unofficially, it's chaos. They had one AMAZING rink guard who actually built a wall of cones all around the center to stop kids from cutting through so the figure skaters could safely practice. I sent an email to management praising him; unfortunately I think he went away to college. Another rink guard will at least enforce the "no hockey pucks" rule and yell at kids who get too out of control.
The rest are terrible; worst of all was the one who skated past an adult with a head injury THREE times without noticing what was going on (how do you miss someone lying on the ice with 10 people standing around him?) and a bunch of people had to chase him down and yell at him. I would love to get paid to skate around and do nothing! This rink claims to be hard up for cash; they might as well just get rid of these deadbeats.
Another rink where I skate has some strict rules for figure skaters: No blades above knee level (no spirals or camel spins), no jumps above a flip. But whether they are enforced depends on who the guard is. There are also the typical rules about no forming chains, no shoving people, etc., and again, whether they're enforced depends entirely on the guard.
I remember skating on public sessions as a kid that were really crowded but also flowed very well: Everyone skated in the same direction, faster skaters skated close to the inside so slower skaters could grab the boards if necessary, figure skaters only jumped and spun in the middle. I've yet to find a rink as an adult that has that kind of flow.
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I remember skating on public sessions as a kid that were really crowded but also flowed very well: Everyone skated in the same direction, faster skaters skated close to the inside so slower skaters could grab the boards if necessary, figure skaters only jumped and spun in the middle. I've yet to find a rink as an adult that has that kind of flow.
LOL, you're on the wrong sort of skates.
Seems for the more serious shuffle/organ music/rollerdance orientated roller rinks, that the rules are the opposite. Advanced skaters get the outside, beginners are highly encouraged to skate closer the centre. Freestylers can do their break dance type stuff in the middle. Makes much more sense, everyone travels at the same rotational velocity. I guess when you have 200+ people on a session, you can't have the sort of shenanigans that go on on the average ice public.
e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfG5dP-RsJQ
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My rink has the rules posted on absolutely giant signs that stretch from just above the door frame leading from the lobby into the rink up 10+ feet to the ceiling in bright red bold letters. I honestly assume only about 10% of the people read them because they usually pay and head straight to get their skates. Usually they're pretty okay, but there are days where it is just chaos. People in large groups, I've noticed, tend to be the cause of a lot of it. Ice tourists who have no idea what they're doing, don't particularly care, and then feed off each others' energy. Families and smaller groups tend to behave better. And it really depends on what session. Mid-day during the week is empty. Special event/theme nights - heck, no, I'm not risking it. Weekends can be hit and miss.
The only official banned moves are hockey drills with stick and puck. Everything else is generally acceptable depending on ice conditions and crowd levels. Figure skaters, if there are any, tend to keep to center ice to work on things. There's even occasionally a coach who comes in with his senior-level skater. Although some of the implied rules of the rink should be written - like no selfie sticks. That one I got the manager over.
Only the really crowded sessions tend to have ice monitors (staffing issues, I think. Small family rink). When I'm skating on a public session and know there's no one except the manager and one or two other people in the building, I tend to keep a sharper eye.
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Although some of the implied rules of the rink should be written - like no selfie sticks. That one I got the manager over.
I've never seen a selfie stick at a rink, but texting and skating is my favorite. One year in the sessions after Christmas, I noticed a lot of people had really nice DSLR cameras around their necks, and I thought, if you are so disinterested in your nice new camera that you're willing to risk falling with it, give it to me! But the absolute worst, of course, are the people who skate carrying their children.
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Gee, I was the only person on the ice today, until the last 30 minutes, when I was joined by two other well behaved skaters.
There were no rules, because there was no skate guard present but me, and I wasn't working. Not a problem!
Should I feel guilty? :angel:
I.E., the trick to getting nice sessions is what it has always been: If you work while other people play, you can play while other people work. Would that be possible for you? It solves all these problems.
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Gee, I was the only person on the ice today, until the last 30 minutes, when I was joined by two other well behaved skaters.
There were no rules, because there was no skate guard present but me, and I wasn't working. Not a problem!
Should I feel guilty? :angel:
I.E., the trick to getting nice sessions is what it has always been: If you work while other people play, you can play while other people work. Would that be possible for you? It solves all these problems.
I think this is the bottom line. I know at our rink, weekend and evening public sessions are a wash, complete chaos. My DH and I are retired and we come up with some creative ways to avoid the crowds, get the freshest ice etc.etc. but we are lucky that we have the freedom to do so and lucky that or rink has various options. We are not advanced enough to skate freestyle and I am not sure it would even be the best place for us if we were, it is mostly younger girls who are doing a lot of jumping and spinning and of course, very fast paced.
Our rink has an adult skate that is 90 minutes MWF midday (where basically any type of skating goes, jumping, spins, ice dancing, lessons) and a two hour public session before and after (if you pay for an adult session you can also skate the public session before our after). On public sessions you cannot really do jumps if it is crowded or camel spins, there is an area in the middle for other spins and stuff). During the summer we skated exclusively the adult sessions because our rink has kids skate camp and groups all summer on public. Total chaos.
The adult sessions can get crowded, but typically I am able to get stuff done because most people are considerate skaters. I noticed pretty frequently towards the end of this summer at the adult sessions, we would see, what I suspect are older teenagers who have figured out that they can use our ice for a nice long, cheap, freestyle session. It was extremely disruptive to the adult lessons that were going on to have them flying through the middle of the lesson doing double jumps. I noticed one girl was even dropped off and picked up every time by her mom! I think they need to raise the "adult" age to 25 or 30, it is currently 18. Nobody said anything to anybody about it, probably because they are not technically breaking the age rules, but they are breaking etiquette for sure.
By far, our best skates are on quiet, public ice, and we find that on certain days of the week, certain times of the year. We have gotten to where we check in each week and find out if there are any large groups scheduled and avoid those days or skate adult sessions instead. This morning was a perfect example of quiet public, we had two of our adult skater friends there, one was having a lesson. And there were three small family groups with children on buckets, they usually stay on one end of the rink but today it was so quiet they kind of went all over, but there was still plenty of room to practice most anything. The rink knows most of us and seem to know that we use good judgment, and are careful about skating backwards and trying elements. If the rink is empty or only one or two other experienced skaters are there, I will often skate clockwise, it is really the only chance I get to do so.
Occasionally if we get to a morning session and it is unusually crowded and it is not a day we can wait for the adult session, we will actually hop back on the highway and drive another 45 minutes to another rink west of us. It is fairly large and not usually too busy during the week. The ice quality is not quite as good as our regular rink but it is a fun change and I have gotten some great practice at that rink. We visit there probably once every couple of months. I think we are very lucky to have both our schedule and access to good rinks.
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I think I am going have to write strongly worded letter to management.
Did you do so?
Personally, I would contact management in person. I would also show management videos that you shot of people doing things that were dangerous to other people, especially hockey play, during public sessions. And it wouldn't help to go with a group of other people, who say similar things.
Is your rink owned and/or managed by a government, or by a private business?
Another thing to ponder is whether there are any other rinks within reasonable driving distance.
I took up skating mainly it was convenient - I don't need to drive far, compared to other sports like hiking, backpacking, kayaking, skiing, beach play, dancing, etc. If it isn't convenient for you, and you are frustrated and unhappy, I don't see the point. Depending on where you live, there may be lots of other sports and other physical activities that you might enjoy.
Of course, if the sole problem is rink mis-management, you can seek to do something about it.
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Well I thought my rink was problematic with its Friday night sessions, but every other public time has been fairly reasonable. I don't like that we rarely have a skate guard, but our front desk is usually good about addressing major problems if we let them know. One of our biggest problems is people (usually 6yo-16yo) in street shoes or socks daring each other to run out onto the ice. Over rink is attached to a trampoline park and the only water fountain in the building is I'm the rink. I have told these kids to get off the ice many times because it's more dangerous for them then it is for me.
As to what to do when the rink is so out of hand, I would say it depends on your relationship with the staff. I know most of the staff at my rink, I converse and joke with them regularly. Also most of the assistant managers can't skate, but they seem to know if I'm on the ice and they need something then I'll help out. Given this relationship, I haven't ever felt I couldn't go to them with a problem. The only time I took the problem to someone else was about one of the younger figure skaters who was being rude and behaving dangerously on a public session, I went to one of the coaches to let them address it. (During most weekend publics we have at least one figure skating lesson, but sometimes 3-4 lessons going on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Rules? There are no rules at the local rinks open in the summer. At one rink the manager lets all the hockey kids onto public skate early (for free) and paying customers have to dodge them while they punch each other and carry sticks around. At the other rink I chew people out when they kick pucks and gloves around on the ice. It's a rare day when the ice has been done for public skating. But hey, it's the only ice within 100 miles!!
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I once asked a coach at my former rink (closed many years now) about all the screaming from one girl on public. "what's with that? is she a special skater?"
My coach gave me a funny look, "No that's a normal pre-teen girl. They scream a lot." Well, I have no kids and no contact with kids outside the rink, so what did I know?
Since then I've become inured to the pre-teen screaming so much I don't even notice it when I'm skating.
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At a previous rink I skated at, now turned hockey only, there was a beautiful teenage girl advanced freestylist. Her favorite move to practice during public sessions was a flying camel. Gets dangerous when the session gets crowded, especially with little kids who don't appreciate the hazard. At times, the rink manager would get on the PA and ask her to stop. I asked the rink manager, whom I was friends with, why she had to do that, why the guards didn't handle the situation. She told me: "Oh, the guards <who were teenage boys> all want to go out with her!"
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Close call today. A dad is skating backwards (fast, and not looking around) as he takes a video of his kid skating towards him. I see him coming, call out, and duck out of the way. Then I see him on a collision course with a little girl in the middle of a spin; he's still totally oblivious to everything except his iPhone. I intercept him before he creams her.
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I was coaching on a really, really loud weekday public session. The music was blasting and there were a lot of kids on the ice. I said to my student, "Wow. That group is really loud today!" She said "It's only one boy. That one!" She pointed at this little 7-year old boy, cute as a button, who was screaming like a fire engine. It was just him making all. that. noise!
I saw him afterwards and asked him if he liked to sing. He said no. I told him that, with that loud a voice, he should sing opera! I seriously meant it - I wasn't chiding him or anything.
He hasn't been that loud at the rink since that day. I'm sort of disappointed, because I was hoping to teach him my version of opera...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jDcWAWRRHo&feature=youtu.be
I once asked a coach at my former rink (closed many years now) about all the screaming from one girl on public. "what's with that? is she a special skater?"
My coach gave me a funny look, "No that's a normal pre-teen girl. They scream a lot." Well, I have no kids and no contact with kids outside the rink, so what did I know?
Since then I've become inured to the pre-teen screaming so much I don't even notice it when I'm skating.
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I once asked a coach at my former rink (closed many years now) about all the screaming from one girl on public. "what's with that? is she a special skater?"
My coach gave me a funny look, "No that's a normal pre-teen girl. They scream a lot." Well, I have no kids and no contact with kids outside the rink, so what did I know?
Since then I've become inured to the pre-teen screaming so much I don't even notice it when I'm skating.
If you want to hear real pre-teen girl screaming, go to a rock concert by whatever the current fav boy band is. When my daughter was that age, I took her and her best friend to a Back Street Boys concert in an arena filled with ~18,000 pre-teen girls. I don't think my ears ever fully recovered.
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I have old broken earphones I wear as ear plugs when needed. To take the edge off the screamers and sirens. I'm betting it would exceed safe levels at times. I'm willing to trade off a little situational awareness for a little serenity.
( <3 bugs+doc ;) )
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If you want to hear real pre-teen girl screaming, go to a rock concert by whatever the current fav boy band is. When my daughter was that age, I took her and her best friend to a Back Street Boys concert in an arena filled with ~18,000 pre-teen girls. I don't think my ears ever fully recovered.
I think I've just seen my future. We have Twenty One Pilots tickets for January. At least I have time to get ear plugs.
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Can someone who used to be a screamer, tell us about why they did it? Was it entirely involuntary?
It's just such a foreign concept to me. I was most definitely not a screamer. Pathologically quiet actually.
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If you want to hear real pre-teen girl screaming, go to a rock concert by whatever the current fav boy band is. When my daughter was that age, I took her and her best friend to a Back Street Boys concert in an arena filled with ~18,000 pre-teen girls. I don't think my ears ever fully recovered.
Been there, done that. You're right: really loud and screechy. When I coached swimming, the difference between boys and girls meets was obvious. Put 25 girls in a big tiled room...it was ear-splitting when the races were close.
The secret to chaperoning all bus trips (girls or co-ed) are earplugs. Buy them at the pharmacy - great for those nights when DH has a cold, too. I've used the earbud solution at the rink, too.
That said, last night at a burger joint, our ghroup had to wait several times for the GROWN MEN at a nearby table to finish their yelling so that we could talk amongst ourselves. I thought it was yelling at the game on the big-screen TV over their table but no, they were just yelling at each other for no apparent reason.
We were very happy when the waiter brought them food to wash down their giant glasses of beer.
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I guess my rink is atypical. Most of the screaming comes from the little hockey boys playing tag and throwing gloves at each other.
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Did you do so?
Personally, I would contact management in person. I would also show management videos that you shot of people doing things that were dangerous to other people, especially hockey play, during public sessions. And it wouldn't help to go with a group of other people, who say similar things.
Is your rink owned and/or managed by a government, or by a private business?
Another thing to ponder is whether there are any other rinks within reasonable driving distance.
I took up skating mainly it was convenient - I don't need to drive far, compared to other sports like hiking, backpacking, kayaking, skiing, beach play, dancing, etc. If it isn't convenient for you, and you are frustrated and unhappy, I don't see the point. Depending on where you live, there may be lots of other sports and other physical activities that you might enjoy.
Of course, if the sole problem is rink mis-management, you can seek to do something about it.
Unfortunately little bit after the original post, I had to give up skating for a few weeks, due to health issues, so never wrote or spoke to the rink. but am going back to skating soon, but will be going to a different rink. so hopefully the new rink is a bit more organized.
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Anyone who has dealt with 5 year old kids, especially but not exclusively girls, knows they often scream in normal play. I'm not sure whether it shows excitement, or whether it is just a way of fitting in. It's hard to believe the human vocal system can go as high in pitch as the girls go.
I'm tempted to say that this distinguishes kids from adults, that adults only scream in desperate fear or calls for help.
Except that isn't true at sporting events, or political rallies: many adults never grow out of the yelling/screaming phase. They apparently do it for much the same reasons: excitement, anger, fitting in. I would claim a lot of the enjoyment people get from watching spectator sports is releasing tension through a form of "primal scream therapy."
A survey was conducted relating to a proposed hockey arena, with results shown at http://www.bristolcityst.org.uk/pdf/New%20stadium%20survey%20results.pdf
24% of survey respondents agreed with, and 73.1% of respondents strongly agreed with
"The ground’s acoustics should be designed so that the fans’ cheers reverberate around the stadium, creating a cauldron of noise."
Silly me. I thought arenas should be designed to damp out excess noise and reverberation, to make it easier to understand spoken announcements. Also to make it easier to sync what you see with music played, in dance moves, cheerleading, and figure skating. I was completely wrong.
I know someone who screams at his television set (and Youtube computer screen) during political things, when no one else is watching. He knows knows the television doesn't hear him, but he screams anyway.
I conclude that making noise is normal human behavior.
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I conclude that making noise is normal human behavior.
Cheers for your thoughts. I think there must be a cultural element to it though. I've heard of rock bands playing huge crowds in Japan, with the crowd dead silent, except for enthusiastic but formally polite clapping between the songs. I've heard it's rather disconcerting playing such a crowd if you aren't used to it.
On the other end of the spectrum, at least from the common perspective here, Americans have a reputation for being very vocal and shouty, especially at sporting events. (Deserved or not, I have no idea, I never went to any sporting events in the US during my travels). I think NZers generally fall in the middle of these extremes, with possible a bigger difference between the loud kids vs quiet adults than either US or Japan.
Personally I've never been one to make noise under any circumstances. Actually I don't even know if I know how to scream. Can't say I've ever tried it. Maybe I should.
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The rules depend on how crowded it is. Weekend, forget about doing anything but stroking and maybe an upright spin or a small waltz jump. It's just too crowded.
Medium crowd , and they always put an ice monitor on the ice. I think it's an insurance/safety feature. Then, they stop all camel spins too.
During the week, absolutely empty. But, still, there is a no headphones and a no objects (pucks, sticks) and they only play their music. But, I routinely practice back camels, figures, lutzes. Usually me and one or two other skaters.
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Evenings and weekends are mostly a impractical for fancy stuff on public sessions at most rinks.
But we've recently returned to having Friday evening and Sunday afternoon skates. But the facility doesn't advertise anything, and we don't use DJs, so they aren't very busy, and people can generally do whatever figure skating tricks they want, and they show courtesy.
However, Friday two days ago was a fund raiser, and was busy. That's the thing with publics - they are unpredictable. A fund raiser, party, or school outing can change your planned private skating practice into a complete waste of time, though even there, the first 15 - 30 minutes are often not busy.
If you have the money to rent private ice, that is the way to go. Alas, if you don't rent far enough in advance, the times that you can rent private ice are limited. And it isn't cheap.
Some rinks let a small group of people rent the facility after normal hours. If you could get a group of people together, and you can plan sufficiently in advance, you can consult the rink to see if it is a possibility.