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Author Topic: What are these called  (Read 4379 times)

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Offline hopskipjump

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What are these called
« on: August 09, 2011, 10:29:04 PM »
Watching this video:

1.  Does this have a name at 3:33 (I know it's a lunge, but the knee up thing and back to a lunge).

2.  At 3:43 - what is the part of this spin called where she drops down to a low position?

I appreciate any help!

Offline Sk8ing Wizard

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2011, 10:37:46 PM »
I'm sorry I don't know the answers to either of your questions, but do you know what level this is? It was some seriously good skating.

Offline hopskipjump

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2011, 10:43:37 PM »
It's Courtney Hicks - she competed in the senior level this weekend.

 :)

Offline Sk8ing Wizard

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2011, 10:46:58 PM »
OK thanks, I couldnt tell who it was because Im watchijg on my teensy phone screen. :)

Offline hopskipjump

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2011, 10:48:13 PM »
She is sure action packed!

Offline AgnesNitt

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2011, 10:52:26 PM »
That thing with the lunge with the foot change. I've seen Johnny Weir do that for one of his Russian programs. I think it's supposed to resemble cossack dancing (the hopak?)
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Offline FigureSpins

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2011, 12:40:43 AM »
Watching this video: <snip>
1.  Does this have a name at 3:33 (I know it's a lunge, but the knee up thing and back to a lunge).
2.  At 3:43 - what is the part of this spin called where she drops down to a low position?
I appreciate any help!

1. No name afaik - it's a lunge, she comes up on the knee, turns the foot/free leg open to drag the blade tail, then back into a lunge.

2. The downward swing is called an Illusion.  It wasn't spectacular - the free leg should really come up in the air behind her like a see-saw.  The combination spin was beautiful to watch.
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Offline Skittl1321

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2011, 08:12:06 AM »
Are you sure she was trying an illusion? (I'm assuming the part you are calling that was the entry?)
It looked to me like she just dipped down on the camel entry, rather than staying level. Her leg didn't go up at all.

Unless illusion is considered a difficult entry also, to get an illusion as a feature you have to do 3 of them, so this wouldn't count as that.

Mirai did illusions in her final spin: (around 2:53) although she could improve it too.

Offline FigureSpins

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2011, 08:21:08 AM »
An Illusion would be considered a difficult entry to a camel spin, and I do think that's what was choreographed.  She only made a half-hearted attempt at it before going into the camel. She looked off-balance or tired.  It's very early in the season, so this was just a tune-up competition.

A single pass is called an "Illusion."  Repeated three or more time as a spin, it's called an "Illusion Spin." 
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Offline MimiG

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2011, 08:38:35 AM »
I think the OP means Twhicks Pretzel bit closer to 3:52, right before the sit spin (it's her own creation) - there was a quick clip of it in the RISE skating show after the movie, and I remember looking it up then because I was pretty impressed.

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2011, 08:43:26 AM »
Oh, I thought she meant the entrance move where she dips down.  That makes more sense.
That was awesome at Nationals last year - really a trademark move.
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Offline Skittl1321

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2011, 09:10:40 AM »
An Illusion would be considered a difficult entry to a camel spin, and I do think that's what was choreographed.  She only made a half-hearted attempt at it before going into the camel. She looked off-balance or tired.  It's very early in the season, so this was just a tune-up competition.

A single pass is called an "Illusion."  Repeated three or more time as a spin, it's called an "Illusion Spin." 

Can you cite where you found that an illusion is a difficult entry? I can't find anything in the technical document: http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-197593-214816-125742-0-file,00.pdf except for it being a difficult variation (with 3 of them).  Difficult entries seem to be limited to flying entries and their variations and backward entries. 

I'm not really sure a single one counts as any sort of feature in a spin.  I do know that many skaters would use a single illusion in footwork.

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 09:21:24 AM »
I didn't say it was a feature - you did and you're right: only if there are three or more revolutions.
Using a difficult entrance wouldn't change the level, it just boosts the "soft" points.

FWIW, it looks like you're right: she just blew the entrance to the camel spin last weekend.  No illusion intended.



Same spin, different competition, no illusion. 
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Offline Skittl1321

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2011, 09:47:23 AM »
I didn't say it was a feature - you did and you're right: only if there are three or more revolutions.
Using a difficult entrance wouldn't change the level, it just boosts the "soft" points.


I know this is getting a little off topic, but I'm trying to figure out how all the judging works.  A difficult entrance, as defined by the technical manual, DOES boost the level of the spin (or at least give it a bullet point towards boosting the level), doesn't it?  This just isn't one of the defined difficult entrances.  (No doubt, it would be a hard entrance though, if that was what is intended.) 

So if someone did do an illusion to enter a spin, it would only count as a hopeful boost to GOE?  Which is probably why no one does it- because it is better to use the difficult entrances that do gain levels, right?

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2011, 10:00:29 AM »
At that level of skating, it's almost a throwaway move - Jason Brown does a single Illusion in his footwork.
It's more to demonstrate artistry and control than to gain "features."  I really wasn't thinking about the Illusion in terms of IJS points, it really is a difficult entrance to the camel spin, regardless of what the Tech Spec says.
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Offline phoenix

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2011, 10:24:16 AM »
Would an illusion in footwork count as a height change since the body goes so far down?

Offline hopskipjump

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2011, 11:18:35 AM »
Twhicks Pretzel - yes that is the part I was asking about - when she goes down.  It's an interesting drop - it looks almost impossible.  But now I know why I haven't seen it before.  :D

Offline rosereedy

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2011, 01:38:36 PM »
She is a very lovely skater!

Offline fsk8r

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2011, 04:24:20 PM »
Twhicks Pretzel - yes that is the part I was asking about - when she goes down.  It's an interesting drop - it looks almost impossible.  But now I know why I haven't seen it before.  :D


Wow! I hope she got bonus marks for creativity as I've never seen anyone drop into a sit position from a catch foot camel position (in variation).

Offline techskater

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Re: What are these called
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2011, 06:39:53 PM »
Yes, it's unusual, that's why it's called the "Tw'Hicks position" (as a play on twist and Hicks)