skatingforums
On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: FigureSpins on January 11, 2011, 04:42:40 PM
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Students (beginners/low-level) come up to me all the time and ask: "Is this something?" then proceed to execute their latest achievement. They all want to be able to claim a unique glide, jump or spin. My scariest experience was the kid who would jump off two feet then land forwards after doing some wacky crossover, lol. Everyone wants to invent the next Denise Beilmann or do Scotty Turns or even a Mike Pike.
Here's a challenge: describe some manuever you've seen or done. Others try to figure out what it really was, lol. Make sure to check back to see others' answers and respond to questions or "I got it!"
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Courtesy of a DD:
Skate backwards on a RBI edge, jump with the foot behind you, turn CW and land on a RBI edge.
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Haha--love this topic!
Hmmm, there are lots of possibilities, but given the topic I'm going with-- failed salchow?
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Close enough - a one-footed CW salchow! It's cool to see - makes you wonder what she did.
Anyone have another "Is This Something?"
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Close enough - a one-footed CW salchow! It's cool to see - makes you wonder what she did.
I love this - it sounds like an inside-out loop jump - I love it when I see a program and I think - "what is that and how did they do it?" - Can she do it in a program? I would love to see a little video.!
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I'll see if I can get her to skate it for the camera, but she's working on her ice dances, so freestyle's been taking a backseat. Part of it came from getting confused since she's a CW skater and her twin is a CCW skater.
Seen something/anything cool? Tell us what it looks like and we'll guess what it is!
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Enter on LFO edge, pick with right leg, turn half revolution CCW, and land on LBI. How would you name this jump?
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a half-floop?
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floop? lol but the take off is forward...
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(I feel like I'm hogging this topic)
A half floopy hop? (half flip + half a half loop + bunny hop)
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This is a good one...the takeoff is forward with a toe assist...half-turn into curve...change edges but not feet...
Is it a toe-assisted three jump?
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Enter on LFO edge, pick with right leg, turn half revolution CCW, and land on LBI. How would you name this jump?
This was a question on Yahoo answers a while back, originally the asker did not specify the jump direction and said the landing was on LBO. Big mess =P
Later it turns out to be CCW with LBI landing. The closest description from Wikipedia jump list is one-foot-axel, except this has 1 revolution less and toe assistance = one-foot-waltz with toe assistance
In my opinion it cannot be called "one-foot-toe-waltz" because toe waltz (0.5 rev) is a cheated toe loop (1 rev) with half of the revolution done on the picking foot (left foot) and takes off forward. Since picking foot is the right foot, it cannot use the specific "toe waltz" terminology.
Is it reasonable to name the jump "one-foot-waltz with toe assistance"? LOL
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A jump that turns CCW from LFO to LBI
LFI is called a "jumped three" or "three jump" in the US.
I haven't heard the term "one foot waltz jump" but it's an apt description.
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LOL that's because I've never heard of "three jump", and iceskating.org.uk says it's the same as waltz! On the other hand, you mean LFO to LBI, right?
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Ah, yes, things get lost in the UK-US translation void. Forgot you were from the UK. US:Waltz does equal UK:Three Jump. I wonder if "one foot waltz jump" is the UK term for the US Jumped Three? Hmmmm.. ..
Yes, I did mean LBI. I'll change my post.
Maybe we're both right, just using different terms. Does anyone know the correct answer, though, if this came from Yahoo! Answers?
Truthfully, a lot of newbies just stick their toe in the ice whenever they feel like it and think they've invented something special. They're not actually toeing-in, they're just chipping at the ice and their weight never transfers, so using the toepick in this example could be a red herring. It's like watching an illusionist: the use of the toepick just distracts the viewer long enough to confuse them.
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LOL that's because I've never heard of "three jump", and iceskating.org.uk says it's the same as waltz! On the other hand, you mean LFO to LBI, right?
Yes, but the one footed version is called a jumped three in the UK.
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Oh boy... Sorry for the series of confusion. I am not from UK and never heard of three jump nor jumped three before today. I made up the term "one foot waltz" because I could not think of anything better, haha.
It's a fun thread!
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One of the old skating books (can't remember which and I'm not home to check) has a table of all possible jumps. Basically take any turn and you can do a half jump or a full rotation. Given that there are four basic turns (3 turn, bracket, counter, rocker), forwards and backwards and the different edges, toe-assisted or not, that's a lot of jump possibilities, and that's without worrying about the fact that some jumps are landed on opposite feet, eg waltz/ three jump versus a jumped three.
What was interesting with the table, was that it listed the names of the jumps, so a 1 revolution jump from a back counter with a toe-assist is a lutz, and without the toe-assist is a toe-less lutz (bit unoriginal on that one!). Quite fascinating to realise how many jumps used to be performed and have dropped out of favour and IJS doesn't really allow for some of the more unusual ones to make a come back.
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Okay, new round of "Is This Something?" This IS a name-brand move - name the skater and his/her element title!
Skater travels forward with free leg extended to the front. Skater catches free foot by the heel (opposite hand), then lowers body down into a one-foot glide in a sit-spin position.
Who did it and what was it called?
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I had no idea this move has a name and that someone invented it. I admit that I've never seen a skater grab his/her heel--I've only seen (and done) a variation where you place your free leg on the skating leg, in a sit position with the free leg looking as if you are sitting cross-legged. Tee hee, in mind I've always called this move "shoot the duck for suckers," which is no reflection on the difficulty of the move, just its appearance. :D
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Need a hint?
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A jump that turns CCW from LFO to LBI LFI is called a "jumped three" or "three jump" in the US.
I haven't heard the term "one foot waltz jump" but it's an apt description.
What a coincidence, at the end of group lesson yesterday coach said "now do a one-footed waltz". I immediately asked "it's also called a three jump, right?" but he didn't seem to get it.
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It's called a "Mike Pike" or so Michael Weiss once stated. He dropped it in favor of the Tornado, but he really wanted to have something of his own in skating. It really isn't impressive - check out his 2006 Nationals program on YouTube.
I had no idea this move has a name and that someone invented it. I admit that I've never seen a skater grab his/her heel--I've only seen (and done) a variation where you place your free leg on the skating leg, in a sit position with the free leg looking as if you are sitting cross-legged. Tee hee, in mind I've always called this move "shoot the duck for suckers," which is no reflection on the difficulty of the move, just its appearance. :D
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Mike Pike is really just a variation of shoot the duck. no biggie.
Kay
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Mike Pike is really just a variation of shoot the duck. no biggie.
Ah, but it's still "something!"
New round: describe a skating move and let others guess if it's "something."
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** New Round! **
Skate forward on a RFI edge
Jump and rotate CCW
Land on a LBI edge
What is it?
Hint: takes off forward, lands backward
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Half loop?
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Half loop?
No, sorry. Try again.
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3-jump or a jumped 3-turn :)
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Skate forward on a RFI edge
Jump and rotate CCW
Land on a LBI edge
Kind of like a bracket jump, but it changes feet. I don't know that I have heard a name for it.
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That is just a jumped mohawk unless I'm missing something... right foot, ccw rotation, left foot, that's more like a mohawk. If it was bracket like it would be cw.
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That is just a jumped mohawk unless I'm missing something... right foot, ccw rotation, left foot, that's more like a mohawk. If it was bracket like it would be cw.
ding ding ding! We have a winner!
It is a jumped mohawk. Played with them as a Fip entrance today (with a student)
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Here's one I like:
Skate backward on RBO
Jump up and rotate 180 degrees CCW
Land on facing forward on left toe pick and push forward onto RFI edge
What is it?
Bonus section: name some of the popular variants for different positions of the skater in the air
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I know this one because I have a variant of it in my program, but I'll let someone else answer :)
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Here's one I like:
Skate backward on RBO
Jump up and rotate 180 degrees CCW
Land on facing forward on left toe pick and push forward onto RFI edge
What is it?
Bonus section: name some of the popular variants for different positions of the skater in the air
Sounds like a jumped back 3 turn which I think is known as a falling leaf if you get the position right.
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Correct! Falling leaf is what I was going for. Anybody want to name the variants?
I learned the falling leaf as a pretty connector for doing with a series of waltz jumps.
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Correct! Falling leaf is what I was going for. Anybody want to name the variants?
I learned the falling leaf as a pretty connector for doing with a series of waltz jumps.
In my mind it should be called a half loop, given that a half flip and a half Lutz land on the toe pick forwards. However when I do it I'm pretty much open to forwards before I take off (but I bizarrely jump this the opposite way to my natural rotation).
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There's more than one variant? I have the split falling leaf in my bronze program.. but depending on how tired I am at that point (it's at the end) it sometimes doesn't end up being very split-like though.
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The Falling Leaf jump variants are Split Falling Leaf and Stag Falling Leaf.
I've seen skaters attempt a "tucked" variation, but very few of them accomplish it.
(You take off, then bend both knees to "kick yourself in the butt.") Getting to a safe landing position is difficult from that variation, but I'm sure an elite skater could pull it off. These skaters aren't at that level.
A half-loop takes off from a BO edge and lands on the BI edge of the opposite foot.
It's considered a Loop variant, not a half-jump.
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Skate forward on a RFI edge
Jump and rotate CCW
Land on a LBI edge
What is it?
Hint: takes off forward, lands backward
Just for fun, let's add one revolution in the air. Anyone want to take a stab at it? ;)
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An inside axel with a one foot axel landing? :)
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Just for fun, let's add one revolution in the air. Anyone want to take a stab at it? ;)
So one rev = you land on LFI (different foot) or RFI (same foot). Change feet it's an inside half axel? Same foot it's like a jumped inside loop, but I have no idea? Maybe a toeless half flip?? (Like I said, no idea!! :D)
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** New Round! **
Skate forward on a RFI edge
Jump and rotate CCW
Land on a LBI edge
Hint: takes off forward, lands backward
Just for fun, let's add one revolution in the air. Anyone want to take a stab at it? ;)
CCW, RFI entry, 1.5 revs, with a LBI landing?
If it took off from a LFO edge and landed on the LBO edge, it would be a one-foot axel...
An inside axel would land on a RBO edge...
I'm stumped. *goes to check kay's site*
Is it something?
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http://north-shore-times.whereilive.com.au/sport/story/diamond-days-for-top-young-skate-star-1/ (http://north-shore-times.whereilive.com.au/sport/story/diamond-days-for-top-young-skate-star-1/)
Diamond spin :)
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I feel pain just looking at that!!! :o
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So one rev = you land on LFI (different foot) or RFI (same foot). Change feet it's an inside half axel? Same foot it's like a jumped inside loop, but I have no idea? Maybe a toeless half flip?? (Like I said, no idea!! :D)
Yep, it would be an inside axel landed on the other foot. For all listed jumps, current ISU rules allow the jump to be landed on either foot as long as it's fully rotated. Since the inside axel is an unlisted jump, whether or not this would "count" could be argued either way. It would look cool, though!
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Yep, it would be an inside axel landed on the other foot. For all listed jumps, current ISU rules allow the jump to be landed on either foot as long as it's fully rotated. Since the inside axel is an unlisted jump, whether or not this would "count" could be argued either way. It would look cool, though!
I don't think it would be considered an axel variation - axel is 1.5 rev and the move as described is only one rev around (forward takeoff to forward landing)? I absolutely agree it would look very cool indeed. Bags not being the person who tries it :D!
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A jump that turns CCW from LFO to LBI LFI is called a "jumped three" or "three jump" in the US.
I haven't heard the term "one foot waltz jump" but it's an apt description.
Another reason I like this site so much. I wanted to know if this was really a "legitimate" move and what it is called so I searched for "lfo lbi jump" and presto, here I am.
I was messing around on the ice today doing bunny hops to warm up for waltz jumps when I decided to try a LFO-LBI jump with no toe assistance. I wanted to try some other type of edge jump (beyond waltz jumps) without a full rotation and wanted to land backwards to practice "sticking" my landing, hence the forward takeoff. I like the feel and think it will help with getting comfortable on my landings.
I noticed I was curving in like for a 3-turn and only got about 90 degrees rotation in the air. I then focused on doing a shallower entrance and got more rotation. I am off the ice for about 6 inches.
To the wise and experienced out there: Is there a reason I should not be doing this (i.e. setting up bad habits of some sort, etc) ?
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Maybe you should post a video - there is something called a one-foot axel as well but honestly I can't remember if it starts on a FI and goes 1.5 times around and lands on a back outside or if it starts like an axel on a FO edge and lands on the same foot after 1.5 revolutions to a BI edge... oh, now I am confusing myself (and probably everybody else LOL)
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It is the latter. The former is an inside axel.
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It is the latter. The former is an inside axel.
Oh yeah. Thanks!! :)
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I could call it a half axel. ;D
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Half one-foot axel!
I was looking at your original post on this - a "3-jump" is another term for waltz jump I think. (maybe)
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A waltz jump changes feet, whereas a 3-jump does not (it's quite literally a 3-turn where you jump the actual turn part).
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A waltz jump changes feet, whereas a 3-jump does not (it's quite literally a 3-turn where you jump the actual turn part).
If this is the case then this is what the original poster is doing I think!
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Okay, I occasionally dream about this 'transistion'. What is it?
LBO, toepick right, CCW turn, do a little mazurka move at the top (skate cross/uncross) or skates clap together, land on RbI.
I must have seen this somewhere in a video, it seems doable of course, and to the right choreography, it may be really charming.
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A waltz jump changes feet, whereas a 3-jump does not (it's quite literally a 3-turn where you jump the actual turn part).
Actually in some parts of the world a waltz jump IS a three jump.
And as three turn where you jump the turn is a Jumped three.
Two nations divided by a common language.
Don't get us started on Cherry Flips (toe-loops) and teapots (shoot the duck).
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Actually in some parts of the world a waltz jump IS a three jump.
And as three turn where you jump the turn is a Jumped three.
Two nations divided by a common language.
Don't get us started on Cherry Flips (toe-loops) and teapots (shoot the duck).
Three nations. Eulers (loops) and Mapes (toe-loops)
Then of course there's the scissors/swizzles/fish/lemons debate....
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And crossovers-crosscuts-crossunders! ;D
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This is as bad as the turtle-tortoise-terrapin confusion!