USFSA Governing Council 2013

[FigureSpins]

You do know that there are prerequisite tests, right?  You cannot pass preliminary FS without having passed prelim moves first.  That means the skater is eligible to take the adult bronze FS test.  Under the old rules, it would only qualified them to take the pre-bronze FS test.  Adult Nationals doesn't offer a Pre-Bronze event, so those skaters have to take and pass the Bronze FS test in order to compete at AN.

Most standard-track skaters test up one or more Moves levels anyway.  I'm not sure why adults seem to take their moves and FS tests in pairs only as needed.

 The new equivalencies align the standard and adult-track moves levels, as a follow-on to the prior GC's decision to up the ante on adult tests.  (Ex: edge spirals on Silver).

I wonder why the adult committee keeps doing these short-term implementations?  They did the same thing last year - approved in April/May, effective 7/1.  It affects anyone who is preparing to test over the summer.  My club doesn't have a test session between now and July, so anyone prepping now for a July test has to check the Internet to find out about these changes, as opposed to checking the rule book for the normal September implemented changes.

[sarahspins]

So the levels are off. People now have to take MIF a level in advance rather than the same level as the FS level. Too confusing. They need to re-designate names for the MIF or something.

No, it's saying that if you have passed preliminary FS then the next test you have to pass is silver moves in order to take silver FS... you don't need to take bronze FS if you've already passed prelim fs, that's where you already are.

FigureSpins - I'm pretty sure based on past posts that she passed prelim FS way back before there were MITF.

The changes are weird though, and it's frustrating because it's like chasing a moving target.  I'm also a little annoyed now realizing that based on the changes this year, I wouldn't have needed to take pre-bronze moves and free because I'd already taken pre-pre moves and free years ago - that's over $100 I spent on testing that I wouldn't have had to spend if I had waited until this summer.  But it's just proof that as much as they say "no more changes" they keep making changes anyways.

[TreSk8sAZ]

What does it entail?

Basically my understanding is 502 clears up the confusion that occurred this season between the different adult committees. Throughout the season, the solo dances were doing 2 patterns of most dances. Got to ANs and they were higher for every dance (in some cases 2 more patterns, others 1). The paired dancers were doing the normal competition patterns. It's a clarification of test patterns vs competition rule book pattern numbers. I don't know how it came out yet, but at least it should be clear from here on out.

[techskater]

Most standard-track skaters test up one or more Moves levels anyway.  I'm not sure why adults seem to take their moves and FS tests in pairs only as needed.
I wonder why the adult committee keeps doing these short-term implementations?  They did the same thing last year - approved in April/May, effective 7/1.  It affects anyone who is preparing to test over the summer.  My club doesn't have a test session between now and July, so anyone prepping now for a July test has to check the Internet to find out about these changes, as opposed to checking the rule book for the normal September implemented changes.

Most adults are only on the "next" moves due to more limited practice time and typically are slower to learn new skills, so it takes them longer to be ready to take the next test.

Everything has moved to 7/1 implementation with the changes to USFS fiscal year being 7/1 to 6/30 now.

[sarahspins]

Most adults are only on the "next" moves due to more limited practice time and typically are slower to learn new skills, so it takes them longer to be ready to take the next test.

Agreed, though I also want to add that I made a choice to concentrate on moves last fall so I could get through silver moves... a choice that I don't think most adult skaters would have made.  I put testing my bronze freeskate on the back burner because I really wanted to get through silver moves, and getting ready for that took up a vast majority of my practice time.  Even now that I'm not actively working on a moves test (I am still working on them, but not with the focus and determination I had before) I still spend at least half of my practice sessions doing moves... mostly because I don't want to lose anything I worked so hard to achieve, but also because nothing will get me more comfortable and confident with the gold patterns than skating them.. a lot.  Of course now that I have two freeskate test programs to work on at the same time that has been interesting as well... I don't think that is a position that many adults find themselves in either.  I am not planning on contingency testing those though, we are planning on inviting a judge to do my bronze test on a freeskate or adult session (less pressure!) and then I'll test silver in a regular test session.

[treesprite]

Wow, they will do that where you are, test someone during a regular skating session?

FigureSpins - I'm pretty sure based on past posts that she passed prelim FS way back before there were MITF.

This is correct for both FS and figures.

[blue111moon]

Wow, they will do that where you are, test someone during a regular skating session?

My club does that whenever we have just a couple of low tests that only require a single judge.  It's more practical to do that a few times a year whenever the skaters are ready than to wait until we have enough skaters ready at the same time to justify booking ice and bringing in a full panel for a full test.  Plus we have mostly low test skaters anyway and there are a lot of test sessions at other clubs in the area the high-test skaters can get onto so they don't want to wait until we have enough skaters to fill a test session.

Testing on a club session is also more comfortable for the skaters, since they're surrounded by friends and on familiar ice.  We had one little girl who too her pre-pre moves and passed without even knowing that the judge was there!  As far as she was concerned, she was just running through the moves one more time for her coach and her parents.    Of course, we're also lucky to have a judge who lives nearby and doesn't mind swinging by for an hour when asked. 

[FigureSpins]

Most adults are only on the "next" moves due to more limited practice time and typically are slower to learn new skills, so it takes them longer to be ready to take the next test.

Everything has moved to 7/1 implementation with the changes to USFS fiscal year being 7/1 to 6/30 now.

But that's not the norm from what I've seen on test schedules.  Adults are contingency-testing the same level Moves and FS.  I guess they focus on freestyle and when those skills are up to passing standard, they work on the Moves, but the intention of the prereq's is the opposite.

I didn't see that 7/1 is the new 9/1, lol.  It's still very short notice since GC is in the Spring.

[jjane45]

I may have to take the silver FS contingent of silver MITF next month. Do I want to do it? No. But I don't test often. And the moves simply were / are not quite ready.

[sarahspins]

Wow, they will do that where you are, test someone during a regular skating session?

Yes, I took my pre-bronze moves and free and bronze moves that way   But really, more importantly, if I can get my bronze free out of the way I can just focus on silver free for the next test session, rather than stressing out about doing both.

[Doubletoe]

I am also annoyed at this...I skate fast enough to have three spins in a Silver program, no problem. When I took Silver FS test, I had three spins, two were combos. My competitive program currently has three jump combos and three spins....If I have to remove a spin AND a jump combo, I'm going to have so much extra time! I already have full ice spirals and 3/4 ice footwork. However, it does make it line up more with standard track - I think first level for three spins is Intermediate or Novice?

If you skate fast, then one less spin and one less jumping pass will give you more time to show off those skating skills and gain a competitive advantage! Yes, the WBP rules will now be better aligned with the standard track jumps and spins per minute of skating.

[techskater]

But that's not the norm from what I've seen on test schedules.  Adults are contingency-testing the same level Moves and FS.  I guess they focus on freestyle and when those skills are up to passing standard, they work on the Moves, but the intention of the prereq's is the opposite.

  That's what I meant by "next" - they aren't 1-2 levels ahead, typically, but take the moves and fs at the same session or within one.  Most adults choose to concentrate on what they enjoy in their limited training time and for many that's FS and not moves.

[CaraSkates]

If you skate fast, then one less spin and one less jumping pass will give you more time to show off those skating skills and gain a competitive advantage! Yes, the WBP rules will now be better aligned with the standard track jumps and spins per minute of skating.

Good point! I think I will work on better combo spins now that I only have two chances to spin! I'm going to talk to my coach/choreographer tomorrow morning about making some of the transitions harder to take up more time also. Not competing till August now so I have some time to change the program around.

[sarahspins]

  That's what I meant by "next" - they aren't 1-2 levels ahead, typically, but take the moves and fs at the same session or within one.  Most adults choose to concentrate on what they enjoy in their limited training time and for many that's FS and not moves.

Yes, but adult is structured more like test track, so there's less incentive to "hold back" on the FS tests to stay competitive in competition.. most adults test up as high as they are able to, rather than biding their time in lower levels.  Most standard track skaters who test up several levels higher in moves than their free could likely in theory easily pass the corresponding FS tests, however it would put them at a disadvantage for competition since what skaters do compared to the test requirements is way different... this is why you see a lot of skaters who don't test any higher than intermediate or novice free in their "competitive" careers suddenly test the higher FS tests when they choose to stop competing... it was never that they couldn't pass those tests, it's that they wouldn't have been competitive if they did.

[techskater]

This is true also, Cara, but I was responding to the initial comment that adults are often testing "contingent".  I see a lot of adults who give a cursory nod to moves until they have that one magic bullet they need to finally be competitive/test the next level.  I know there are many of us who are also 1-2 MIF tests ahead - by choice.

[treesprite]

Some clubs do not allow contingency testing. I read somewhere that the one here doesn't. When I took prelim FS & figures I did them the same day, same club, but I guess in a couple decades they changed their rules.

[sk8gal]

Interesting - I will look for info on this. Does this mean Gus Lussi would be a "paper coach" nowadays? The coach who taught me from Novice through Gold figure and free had himself only passed the third figure test (as I am aware), but he helped many a skater earn their Gold Medals and compete successfully...of course skating experience is important, but so is the success of their students.

The Competitions Committee mentioned a term I hadn't heard before: the "Paper Coach."

That's going to be interesting - keep an eye out for the survey!

[AgnesNitt]

Interesting - I will look for info on this. Does this mean Gus Lussi would be a "paper coach" nowadays? The coach who taught me from Novice through Gold figure and free had himself only passed the third figure test (as I am aware), but he helped many a skater earn their Gold Medals and compete successfully...of course skating experience is important, but so is the success of their students.

Gus Lussi would not be a 'paper coach'

From Wikipedia.

Lussi was born in Stans, Switzerland. Lussi himself was not a competitive skater but a ski jumper. He lost his nerve for that sport after a fall, and became interested in skating instead. His previous experience with the sport was only recreational skating on Lake Lucerne as a boy. Since he had very little money, he was unable to compete as an amateur, but he made arrangements to learn skating from a top professional in Switzerland in exchange for later becoming his coach's assistant. He vowed that if he could not become a World Champion himself, he would make one through his teaching.[2]

So he skated recreationally as a child. Took up another demanding sport, then switched to  skating by taking lessons from a skating coach AND learning coaching technique from that coach.

That is not a paper coach. That is an adult skater doing an apprenticeship. The idea that a coach has to be a 'former skater' to be a good coach sounds like sour grapes that some former competitive skaters are losing students to other coaches.

[FigureSpins]

The idea that a coach has to be a 'former skater' to be a good coach sounds like sour grapes that some former competitive skaters are losing students to other coaches.

Interesting point.  In the past, experience vs. knowledge has become a contentious discussion.  Most people point out that teaching/coaching is not the same as performing.  Just become someone has won competitions doesn't make them a great coach, nor does it mean that you need a World Championship title in order to "teach tots how to lick the ice."  (To quote Slusher, lol.)

The PSA requires that the coach has either skated at a certain level and/or taken a student to a certain level for each of their ratings levels.  That already creates a barrier where the PSA matters to parents in selecting a coach.  There are also coaches who've taken students to Senior, but never tested that high themselves.

Korey Aide, Jason Brown's coach, is talented and knowledgeable, although she was never an elite contender herself.  One of the reasons she pursued PSA ratings was because she didn't have that high-level skating experience.  If she had never become a coach, that would have been unfortunate.

It will be interesting to see if the survey addresses skaters like myself, who started late and skated ISI instead of USFSA.  There was no place for me in the USFSA and the judges made that very clear back in the day.  I had also mastered freestyle elements well above my highest test, but I stopped testing when life got in the way, so my ISI tests do not reflect my then-level of skating.

[karne]

Korey Aide, Jason Brown's coach, is talented and knowledgeable, although she was never an elite contender herself.  One of the reasons she pursued PSA ratings was because she didn't have that high-level skating experience.  If she had never become a coach, that would have been unfortunate.

It also shows that one doesn't have to have been able to do the elements to teach them. Jason's air position when he jumps is just lovely and he has everything through the triple Axel - in spite of the fact that Kori never got to that level. And now he's one of the best young skaters in the world.

Or, to put it another way...I don't think Alexei Mishin has ever attempted a quad in his life... 

[FigureSpins]

In fairness, both of those coaches brought in specialists like jump and spin coaches for those more-difficult elements.