Petition to Bring Back Figures

[icedancer]

Page Polk Lipe has started an open Facebook group that follows the progress of a Patch class that she's teaching this month.  All 22 patches are used during the class, according to one of her posts!  Awesome.

There are several educational links in other posts.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/417864058269890/

Thanks. This is great.

I just wanted to add that I notice a lot of people have signed the petition who I would consider some of the top coaches/spokepersons through the years for our sport.

I am just saying that I don't think that this proposal will be taken lightly.

[supra]

I saw this petition advertised at LP. While I'm in favor of restoring figures, and  changing moves, it's just impossible to do old style figures at modern rinks.
a. no ice time available, yeah unless rinks want to go bay to the past when they had sessions in the wee hours of the morning (like 4 am)
b. even if you try to practice on freestyle no one will yield to you

So old style figures is out.
The only way to make figures successful is to modify them to make them new style. Blend them in with moves, earlier on, or have the first test as a pre-req for moves.
Bring new audiences into figures to expand the demand for ice time: adults for fitness/balance/core training, and hockey players for edge control.
but no one in USFSA thinks way out of the box.

As far as the new audience thing, that's a pretty neat idea, hockey players and adults. My idea for figures was basically make it another sport. Basically, compulsory figures I would see as good, because, it wouldn't take the sheer athleticism that freestyle does, and it'd pretty much level the playing field for adults and people who start late, whereas with freestyle now, it's hard to really get good unless you've been practicing since you were in the womb. And even for the people that have the practice in, the other issue of just sheer athleticism comes into play with the triple and quad jumps. And as far as freestyle skating's direction, the general public would much rather see it move in the direction of "gymnastics on ice" and make it into more purely an athletic sport.

So I think compulsory figures pretty much would have to be it's own sport, and pretty much be a "precision" sport like golf or archery or something like that, just on ice. I think it could happen that way, similar to how ice dancing evolved into its own discipline, but I think because of the "gymnastics on ice" thing, the ship has totally sailed as far as including compulsories into freestyle skating. So, if compulsories survive at all (it does seem most people were quite happy to be rid of them) it will survive as it's own sport or discipline. I think what will happen is people will start doing independent compulsory figure classes and whatnot, basically out of novelty (as far as I understand it, the ISI actually still does compulsory figures competitions) and if it catches on, the USFSA will sanction it somehow.

As far as ice time goes, yeah, it's not gonna get much ice time. But even curling gets ice time. At the rink I went to in Vermont, they'd have a few curling sessions every week. So I don't see how compulsory figures couldn't get the same type of success. One possible advantage in the general public's eyes for trying compulsories is boots could be cheap, no need for crazy stiff boots. You'd be legitimately OK in a set of beginner boots and you'd be able to stay in them a long time. But, as I said, it'd have to start at the grass roots level, and then USFSA would eventually recognize it as another discipline.

The only possible problem is the temporary image crisis it'd create, since figure skating for such a long time has tried to distance itself/move away from compulsory figures, and sorta erase it from history, so it would be an image issue to work on, and in the most extreme case, freestyle figure skating might just be called "freestyle skating" or like in many other countries "artistic skating" instead of "figure skating." So that'd potentially be an issue depending on how popular compulsory figures got again.

But that's how I see this happening. Online petitions generally never do anything ever. BUT, if a grassroots effort to revive compulsory figures in the way I described happened, then USFSA would have to accommodate it somehow.

Just my thoughts, I'm 21 and compulsory figures weren't even around when I was born, so I have no personal memories of them or anything like that, though when I saw them on youtube I thought it was very neat. 

[icedancer]

As far as the new audience thing, that's a pretty neat idea, hockey players and adults. My idea for figures was basically make it another sport. Basically, compulsory figures I would see as good, because, it wouldn't take the sheer athleticism that freestyle does, and it'd pretty much level the playing field for adults and people who start late, whereas with freestyle now, it's hard to really get good unless you've been practicing since you were in the womb. And even for the people that have the practice in, the other issue of just sheer athleticism comes into play with the triple and quad jumps. And as far as freestyle skating's direction, the general public would much rather see it move in the direction of "gymnastics on ice" and make it into more purely an athletic sport.

So I think compulsory figures pretty much would have to be it's own sport, and pretty much be a "precision" sport like golf or archery or something like that, just on ice. I think it could happen that way, similar to how ice dancing evolved into its own discipline, but I think because of the "gymnastics on ice" thing, the ship has totally sailed as far as including compulsories into freestyle skating. So, if compulsories survive at all (it does seem most people were quite happy to be rid of them) it will survive as it's own sport or discipline. I think what will happen is people will start doing independent compulsory figure classes and whatnot, basically out of novelty (as far as I understand it, the ISI actually still does compulsory figures competitions) and if it catches on, the USFSA will sanction it somehow.

You might find it interesting that when figures were first "eliminated" (as it were) figures were still done even at Nationals, but as a separate event from the freestyle events.  I'm not sure when the last figures were done competitively at a National level here in the States but it was somewhere in the late 90s.

I'm not sure most people were quite happy to get rid of them.  I know that a LOT of coaches lost a lot of revenue for a while because they used to teach figure lessons and then they were unable to make up the difference with just freestyle lessons.  I think when MITF were instituted then they were able to pick up the revenue somewhat.  I know that a LOT of coaches really miss teaching figures.

As far as ice time goes, yeah, it's not gonna get much ice time. But even curling gets ice time. At the rink I went to in Vermont, they'd have a few curling sessions every week. So I don't see how compulsory figures couldn't get the same type of success. One possible advantage in the general public's eyes for trying compulsories is boots could be cheap, no need for crazy stiff boots. You'd be legitimately OK in a set of beginner boots and you'd be able to stay in them a long time. But, as I said, it'd have to start at the grass roots level, and then USFSA would eventually recognize it as another discipline.

This is exactly what I am thinking re: time - if learning figures becomes important then the schedules will change to accomodate people doing/learning figures.  You might have less freestyle sessions and more figures/patch sessions - like in the "old days" people did more figures sessions than freestyle as figures were such a large % of the score and were so difficult, etc. 

The only possible problem is the temporary image crisis it'd create, since figure skating for such a long time has tried to distance itself/move away from compulsory figures, and sorta erase it from history, so it would be an image issue to work on, and in the most extreme case, freestyle figure skating might just be called "freestyle skating" or like in many other countries "artistic skating" instead of "figure skating." So that'd potentially be an issue depending on how popular compulsory figures got again.

School figures are the basis of all skating - they help to strengthen muscles - it would be like me just going to lift 200 pounds without doing any preparatory work - you have to build strength, etc., to skate and figures did this for the skater.

But that's how I see this happening. Online petitions generally never do anything ever. BUT, if a grassroots effort to revive compulsory figures in the way I described happened, then USFSA would have to accommodate it somehow.

Just my thoughts, I'm 21 and compulsory figures weren't even around when I was born, so I have no personal memories of them or anything like that, though when I saw them on youtube I thought it was very neat.

A agree that online petitions are generally not the way to go but if it starts a conversation (and it has) then I think this is a good thing.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I realize that talking about figures with people who have never done them, didn't do them "back in the day" is like someone trying to describe to me what it was like to live in the horse-and-buggy era.  You just haven't experienced it!

[jjane45]

The hardest part IMO is to package and sell it as an interesting sport.

[supra]

School figures are the basis of all skating - they help to strengthen muscles - it would be like me just going to lift 200 pounds without doing any preparatory work - you have to build strength, etc., to skate and figures did this for the skater.

I know that, and you know that, and the USFSA also knows it, but the fact is, there's been a whole generation without figures, that doesn't know that, and the closest they have is MITF. It's a hard sell in today's society where people want instant results in things, instant fun, etc. It's hard enough getting kids (or adults for that matter) to wanna skate in circles for learning their edges without figures being there.

This is exactly what I am thinking re: time - if learning figures becomes important then the schedules will change to accomodate people doing/learning figures.  You might have less freestyle sessions and more figures/patch sessions - like in the "old days" people did more figures sessions than freestyle as figures were such a large % of the score and were so difficult, etc.

I don't think it'd really dent freestyle much to be honest, that's very wishful thinking. I think it'd be more along the lines of just one or two sessions a day if that, or even something like 3-4x a week. Remember, it has to compete with like, curling, and speed skating for that matter.

[Skittl1321]

This is exactly what I am thinking re: time - if learning figures becomes important then the schedules will change to accomodate people doing/learning figures.  You might have less freestyle sessions and more figures/patch sessions - like in the "old days" people did more figures sessions than freestyle as figures were such a large % of the score and were so difficult, etc. 

Our rink has two freestyle sessions a week.  I can't imagine having fewer...
To add figures, we'd either have 1 and 1, or they'd have to take away from hockey or public.  That just isn't going to happen.

How many manufacturers are still making figure blades?  With the rest of the world not doing figures, is there enough of a market in the US for it to be worth their while to sell them?  You can fool around with figures, and learn the basics, in freestyle blades- but mastery just can't happen with that giant toe pick.



There is nothing stopping people from still doing figures now, getting rinks to hold patch sessions, or even holding competitions- all that is needed is demand.  I don't understand why USFS would need to require them.  The only thing I think USFS could do that would be useful is continue to certify judges.

[FigureSpins]

I think the OP meant that the ratio of patch:freestyle might change, but I doubt that unless the skating directors start to push for the patch or freestyle sessions with rink management or the clubs step up and rent ice to hold their own "club ice" sessions. 

I think the new selling feature for Figures/Patch is the silence.  I've read several notes online about the contemplative nature of Figures and how meditative the exercise is while toning the body isometrically.  I haven't seen it yet, but I'm sure someone, somewhere is thinking that Sports Psychology wouldn't be needed if our competitors started their events with Figures, lol.  (Not starting a rumor, just guessing at a direction.)

I cannot see the USFSA doing anything as a result of this petition other than maybe highlighting the Compulsory Figures resources that are still available, such as the online "Compulsory Figures Rules" pdf, the availability of Figures tests/events and perhaps the all-figures competitions some clubs host. The ISU isn't advocating Figures, so I don't think the USFSA would ever put it into the requirements in the US.  That's why I suggested adding it to Basic Skills.

Traditionally, lower-level patch skaters would recycle a pair of broken-down boots and blades with the help of a good sharpener.  The sharpener would grind off/remove the bottom toepick and sharpen with a very-shallow ROH to convert the blades.  Less support was needed because of the slow, careful movements of figures. 

There's also a lack of good skate technicians in the US today.  Most people who claim to "sharpen skates" have created patch blades without even knowing it, by screwing up the toerake, lol.

[fsk8r]

If figure blades just need the removal of a toerake (and the flatter profile) you can start by looking at dance blades. They at least come without a mega toepick at the front.

And I fully agree about the silence being the best part. I get to skate 10 weeks of figures over the summer every year and it's wonderful. I love the silence. Sometimes there's silence on freestyle if there's no one running a program but too often the coaches put on a background CD to fill the time. Personally I think it would do people a lot of good if they could hear their toepicks scratching more often.

And some of us outside of the US are jealous that USFS has at least kept the figure tests on the books. They're not even an option with NISA. If I ever get my back 8s and my 3s to a center to a reasonable standard, I'll be flying over to do one of the figure competitions as long as they will allow international competitors.

[icedancer]

If figure blades just need the removal of a toerake (and the flatter profile) you can start by looking at dance blades. They at least come without a mega toepick at the front.
 

I do figures in dance blades.  It is true they are great because they have the very small rounded picks. 

You can find figure blades very cheap on ebay and if there were a demand for it I am sure the blade manufacturers would comply but honestly you can make a pair of figure blades with an old pair of blades.

[AgnesNitt]

I have a pair of Coronation Ace figures blades.

They are nothing but Coronation Ace blades without the drop pick. The toe rake --the stuff that points forward is still there.

My skate tech, who did figures, and was a tech in the figures day says all that has to be done is grind off the drop pick on regular coronation ace blades to get a figures blade.

For high level figures, I've been told there's a special sharpening that needs to be done...it's more than just giving the blades a 1 to 1 1/2 inch ROH.

[supra]

I have a pair of Coronation Ace figures blades.

They are nothing but Coronation Ace blades without the drop pick. The toe rake --the stuff that points forward is still there.

My skate tech, who did figures, and was a tech in the figures day says all that has to be done is grind off the drop pick on regular coronation ace blades to get a figures blade.

For high level figures, I've been told there's a special sharpening that needs to be done...it's more than just giving the blades a 1 to 1 1/2 inch ROH.

What someone told me was they'd flatten the whole blade, ie, have less rocker. Who knows.

[Isk8NYC]

On a used pair of freestyle blades, the rocker would already have been flattened out by repeated sharpenings, right?

[supra]

On a used pair of freestyle blades, the rocker would already have been flattened out by repeated sharpenings, right?

Depends on how they're sharpened, I guess. It'd take a LOT of sharpening, I think, like probably years worth of use on the blades. Some sharpeners are better than others, and some sharpeners take off a lot more. IE, some sharpeners will grind a blade flat and then put a new hollow on, so that'd take a lot away from blade life.

I had a pair of what I thought were compulsory figure boots and blades a while back, actually, old old school Riedells from the 70s with Sheffield blades of some kind. The toe pick was oddly enough, cross cut, but a little over half the size of your average toepick today. Maybe they were freestyle boots and just from the 70s? I kinda figured they were compulsory boots, though. They were a single layer of leather and laced really high, and had 5 hooks on them. The blade itself was narrower than most modern blades I've seen, it was right in between a modern blade and a hockey blade. The ROH oddly enough was somewhat deep. So maybe they were old freestyle boots.


This video shows a closeup of the boots and blades if you're interested.

[SkateToronto]

Figures is invaluable as a coaching tool to teach edges, however when it comes to professional skating, competitions and testing they are considered to be pretty old fashion.  I did figure when I learned to skate in the 80's and you just know that you have been around for a while if you do them