Petition to Bring Back Figures

[FigureSpins]

Andrea Cooper (form. LovePairs) posted a petition to bring Figures back as a requirement in US Figure Skating.
She plans to present it to the Governing Council.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-figures/

The petition has several "big name" signers, including Janet Lynn and Scott Hamilton among the almost-200 signatures.

Do you think it will bring back figures and, if so, in what way(s)?

[Skittl1321]

I'd love to know how the people behind this expect for ice time to be available.  Figure skating already fights for ice time.

If coaches find figures valueable, the should teach their students them.  All my coaches teach them.  But it makes no sense for USFS to require skaters to spend precious time and money testing a discipline that the ISU does not use anymore.

[jjane45]

I'd love to know how the people behind this expect for ice time to be available.  Figure skating already fights for ice time.

If coaches find figures valueable, the should teach their students them.  All my coaches teach them.  But it makes no sense for USFS to require skaters to spend precious time and money testing a discipline that the ISU does not use anymore.

I am assuming petition advocates to replace MITF test with figures test as a prerequisite to freestyle test, or maybe add figures to existing MITF tests, not to actually bring figures back as a mandatory part of the competition. (big assumption, I know) 

Why were MITF tests made prerequisites to freeskate tests? My feeling is they aim to ensure skaters have the appropriate basic skating skills before entering the respective freestyle levels. Do MITF tests do the job? According to my coaches, MITF cannot compare to figures when it comes to teaching the edges, body position, check, etc. What does MITF offer that figures do not?

Ice time is a serious issue. MITF can at least happen on freestyle sessions, I'd for sure freak out if more than 2 skaters start to pull out scribes on freestyle ice...

[AgnesNitt]

I saw this petition advertised at LP. While I'm in favor of restoring figures, and  changing moves, it's just impossible to do old style figures at modern rinks.
a. no ice time available, yeah unless rinks want to go bay to the past when they had sessions in the wee hours of the morning (like 4 am)
b. even if you try to practice on freestyle no one will yield to you

So old style figures is out.
The only way to make figures successful is to modify them to make them new style. Blend them in with moves, earlier on, or have the first test as a pre-req for moves.
Bring new audiences into figures to expand the demand for ice time: adults for fitness/balance/core training, and hockey players for edge control.
but no one in USFSA thinks way out of the box.

[FigureSpins]

I think it needs more clarification on exactly how they want to incorporate figures.  I was watching someone try to teach a Waltz-8 recently and they kept getting cut off by freestyle skaters.  The same thing happens with the forward and backward Circle 8 patterns.  Part of it is that our rink doesn't have a Dance or Moves session; they've tried it and it's poorly attended.  I can't imagine them adding time for Figures.

[icedancer]

The point of this petition is just to get enough signatures (500) to bring the idea to Governing Council.  It is not for us to decide how it will be implemented and I don't see anything in the petition that states bringing figures back into the system as a requirement for anything. 

I am sure the people behind this idea have been thinking about how to implement the bringing back of figures.  I know that in some countries (Japan in particular) the skaters are doing figures as part of their training - whether it is part of their test structure as a requirement for anything else - I have no idea.

I think there are lots of ways to work on figures without having to do actual "patch" sessions (although that would be great!).

I love Janet Lynn's very eloquent comments accompanying her signature on the petition:

School figures are "pearls on ice!" Benefits of school figures are irreplaceable figure skating skills and techniques that can only be learned on ice. 1. They build physical safety and security for the skater. 2. They build muscular and neurological maps and alignment in the body specific for gliding, turning, moving, jumping and spinning on a thin blade, on a natural lean, on ice. 3. They build mental concentration and physical strength in gentle, consistent ways. 4. They build knowledge of the "language of figure skating." 5. They build intellectual evaluation of cause and effect; movement shown in ice tracings. 6. They build skills for creativity. 7. They build skills for interpreting music. 8. They build skills for creating beauty. 9. They build the foundation for freedom on ice! 10. Beatrice Schuba, 1972 Ladies Olympic Champion, deserves every commendation for her utmost expertise in school figures. 11. I thank all of my competitors for their excellent contributions to figure skating, and for spurring me on to become the best I could be. I honor all of them. Slavka Kohout, my brilliant coach, used other exercises to bring the "language of figure skating" gained in both school figures and ice-dance into all the glorious fullness of free-skating. Her training methods should be valued and sought out by skaters, coaches, parents and all skating associations as the highest teaching of the sport and art of figure skating in the world. She is a genius in figure skating.

Please sign the petition!!

[icedancer]

Please sign the petition!!

Or at least read the comments accompanying the signatures!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-figures/

[JSM]

I've taken my scribe out a few times on empty sessions- though really empty sessions are rare, so it doesn't happen often!

I passed my first figure test when I was very young, then MITF was implemented.  I really hated patch sessions when I was little, but I miss it now.  I miss the quiet, the concentration, the rhythmic repetition.  It does help edge quality and body alignment.  I wish I had more time and money so I could pursue them further.

I don't know how realistic it is to reincorporate them into the testing structure at this point, due to ice time issues as everyone has said. More of them in MITF would be great.  I actually LIKE the loop pattern on novice - though I think loops are easier in a circle than on a line - but not everyone does.

[iomoon]

I am conflicted. Figures is very important, but it's also difficult to find room to practice.

[jjane45]

I think it needs more clarification on exactly how they want to incorporate figures.

The point of this petition is just to get enough signatures (500) to bring the idea to Governing Council.  It is not for us to decide how it will be implemented and I don't see anything in the petition that states bringing figures back into the system as a requirement for anything. 

I too think the petition needs more clarification in order to get people putting down their names. No doubt figures are beneficial, but how is it likely implemented will affect whether or not I'd support the cause (what / how / when etc.)

Skaters CAN take figures tests in the USFS system right? Diminishing amount of tests but still a possibility?

[icedancer]

I too think the petition needs more clarification in order to get people putting down their names. No doubt figures are beneficial, but how is it likely implemented will affect whether or not I'd support the cause (what / how / when etc.)

The petition is just to get it to Governing Council.  If there is serious discussion on the issue then committees would be formed to determine how adding figures in would be implemented.

Skaters CAN take figures tests in the USFS system right? Diminishing amount of tests but still a possibility?

You can take any figure test you want - from Preliminary through 8th - there is also an adult track that includes many figures per level = There are Bronze, Silver and Gold levels. 

The hard part is getting the judges together to do the test but a lot of the judges are THRILLED to be judging figures and so getting a panel together is not as hard as it might seem.  We have done it in our area and have judges asking to come and judge at our figures competitions.

I think you can find the descriptions of the figures and tests as they were previously arranged on the USFS website.  I will try to find it and post - maybe tomorrow.

[jjane45]

If figures test track is available, to me it means figures are currently in the system. Then I assume the petition is meant to *increase* the presence of figures, whether or not it affects the test structure by becoming a prerequisite test is a big one.

I'm hesitant to sign because I cannot tell what I'm really signing. not unlike like electing someone to the public office without even knowing the agenda...

[Skittl1321]

If the petition is for usfs to keep qualifying judges for tests, I'd sign it. But I agree with Jjane, I won't sign it without knowing WHAT they want to present.

I people on this thread seem to think they would still be optional, but why is GC needed for that? They already are optional and most coaches utilize them.

[FigureSpins]

The point of this petition is just to get enough signatures (500) to bring the idea to Governing Council.  It is not for us to decide how it will be implemented and I don't see anything in the petition that states bringing figures back into the system as a requirement for anything. 

Bring WHAT idea to GC?  It's just an "I Like Figures" popularity petition - there's no ACTION or IDEA in the wording and yet people are being asked to back it.  No, sorry, I won't sign something that vague. 

We all know that School Figures was and still is the Foundation for Figure Skating.  This is evident as we've watched Figures being reintroduced to Moves-in-the-Field.  The IJS is calling for well defined and clear entry edges into jumps, footwork sequences, and spins.  School Figures trained us to really understand and use edges for clarity and definition.  There are so many other reasons to Bring Back Figures and we invite anyone who is interested in signing this petition to state their reasoning "comment box" provided when signing the petition.  Let's see if there is enough interest and turn out to present this petition to USFS Governing Council for consideration."

This resolution is (at best) ineffective and at worst, a time-eater that will waste GC time while they figure out exactly what action the petitioner wants to see done.  This just seems like it was put up on a whim with no forethought or planning.

Unfortunately, all discussions of Figures on the Facebook group have ended because of the focus on this petition.  It's a shame because there are some highly-knowledgeable people who were sharing tips and techniques prior to the introduction of this topic.  The repeated bumping and reposting of petition pleas have ended all such discussions.

The only signatures that are worth reading are the ones that actually provide an idea or suggestion.  While I think the Carrie Jones idea of skate dress rental was great, their signature is nothing more than spam.

I'd like to see Figures incorporated in this manner:

. Create a Basic Skills track for Figures - four levels (initially) with the core figures that skaters of any age can complete should suffice for starters.
. Incorporate Figures competition events into the template announcement packages.
. Create a "How to teach Figures" educational course for Coaches as part of the CER-C compliance track.
. Challenge judges to become certified for Figures, at least the lower-level ones.

[Clarice]

I'd like to see Figures incorporated in this manner:

. Create a Basic Skills track for Figures - four levels with the core figures that skaters of any age can complete should suffice for starters.
. Incorporate Figures competition events into the template announcement packages.
. Create a "How to teach Figures" educational course for Coaches as part of the CER-C compliance track.

Now this makes sense to me!  I haven't signed the petition yet either, much as I think figures are important, for the reasons you and others have already given.  I applaud the addition of some figures to the Moves in the Field, and was aware that it is still possible to test them, as well as compete in some places.  I think a Basic Skills track is a fabulous idea, and really like the idea of specific coaches' education.  Let's not limit it to CER-C, though.  I'm a CER-B coach, but as an adult-start skater I didn't have a lot of formal instruction in figures.  (I have passed the Preliminary test, but that's all.  I'm also the only person in my club who has even done that much, not counting our two most senior coaches.)  I also know plenty of young coaches who know a lot about free skating, but not the first thing about figures, having never done them themselves.  I wouldn't want to make "How to Teach Figures" mandatory for all coaches, but would love it as an option towards CERs at all levels.

[FigureSpins]

Thank you.  To be honest, I don't think any of my ideas need to go before GC.  Can't the BSS and Judges' Committees effect these fairly-simple changes without GC approval?  That's why I don't understand what they'll do with this petition at GC.  It also doesn't allow for discussion, which is why I started this thread.  I didn't even think about the lack of patch sessions as an obstacle and none of the signers raised any objections.

FYI: any coach can take the optional CER-C courses on the PSA website, for free.  They're paid for by a grant awarded to the Basic Skills program.  I'm listed as CER-A and CER-C on the coaching compliance list.  I don't think the CER-A or CER-B compliance needs to mandate Figures, however a really good course in it would fit into the Sport Science curriculum, if it incorporated things like angle, lean and alignment.  Those core skills are needed for all forms of skating: figures => moves => freeskate/dance

[Clarice]

Yes, I took the CER-C courses last year, because I was interested in seeing what they were.  I'd like any potential Figures course to count towards my CERs, though.  Sports Sciences does seem like a good place to put it.  That could be suggested directly to PSA, couldn't it?

[jjane45]

I think you can find the descriptions of the figures and tests as they were previously arranged on the USFS website.  I will try to find it and post - maybe tomorrow.

Much appreciated!!

We all know that School Figures was and still is the Foundation for Figure Skating.

Side note: in a lot of languages, the term "figure skating" has nothing to do with "figures" at all, this is not a very convincing opening statement...

The only way to make figures successful is to modify them to make them new style. Blend them in with moves, earlier on, or have the first test as a pre-req for moves.

Brainstorming on possible new styles that is no more difficult to practice on normal sessions than MITF? (not to say MITF is easy to fit in...)  The basic figure 8 pattern is already part of low level MITF, what else may be incorporated?

[FigureSpins]

Yes, I took the CER-C courses last year, because I was interested in seeing what they were.  I'd like any potential Figures course to count towards my CERs, though.  Sports Sciences does seem like a good place to put it.  That could be suggested directly to PSA, couldn't it?

I think the PSA can create any course they want to make; I would think the USFSA would have input as to which ones "count" towards CER-A and CER-B requirements.  The best bet would be to send the request/suggestion to both organizations.

We all know that School Figures was and still is the Foundation for Figure Skating.

Side note: in a lot of languages, the term "figure skating" has nothing to do with "figures" at all, this is not a very convincing opening statement...

It's being presented to the United States Figure Skating Association, so it's an appropriate opening statement.  If it were being presented to the ISU, your observation would be more relevant.

[jjane45]

It's being presented to the United States Figure Skating Association, so it's an appropriate opening statement.  If it were being presented to the ISU, your observation would be more relevant.

Not inappropriate, just weak - relying on linguistics / history instead of essence / reality. Frankly, this sport has moved forward without true school figures for a decade and I especially will not say "we all know" for something that's easily challenged.

[FigureSpins]

Not inappropriate, just weak - relying on linguistics / history instead of essence / reality. Frankly, this sport has moved forward without true school figures for a decade and I especially will not say "we all know" for something that's easily challenged.

But your objection was in using the words "Figure Skating" because of the different names in other languages.  To me, it's still a relevant opening statement; the USFSA started out with Figures; Freeskate came later and Jackson Haines had to go to Europe to make it popular because the US wasn't interested, lol.  As for the "we all know," no one has signed the petition that doesn't agree.

I think you're trying to mince words to say you don't agree.  I just don't agree with the lack of specific direction/action.

Hey - why don't you start a contra-petition and see if you get as many signatures?  I'll bet it'll be close because young people would like your argument.

[jjane45]

I rest my case re: opening statement

[icedancer]

Unfortunately, all discussions of Figures on the Facebook group have ended because of the focus on this petition.  It's a shame because there are some highly-knowledgeable people who were sharing tips and techniques prior to the introduction of this topic.  The repeated bumping and reposting of petition pleas have ended all such discussions.

Which Facebook group is that?  I am in one called "Memories of Patch" and I don't remember the tips so much as the memories.  Is there another FB group devoted to figures?

[FigureSpins]

Which Facebook group is that?  I am in one called "Memories of Patch" and I don't remember the tips so much as the memories.  Is there another FB group devoted to figures?

No, that's the one.  They've talked about etiquette, sound, creative figures and a lot of other tips and techniques.  There is more reminiscing, which is understandable given the title of the group, but some of those memories included knowledge and ideas.

[FigureSpins]

Page Polk Lipe has started an open Facebook group that follows the progress of a Patch class that she's teaching this month.  All 22 patches are used during the class, according to one of her posts!  Awesome.

There are several educational links in other posts.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/417864058269890/