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71
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by Query on February 19, 2024, 11:37:28 AM »
I'm largely unconcerned with cosmetic issues too. A few people on this forum have claimed they can tell they are slower with scratched blade sides, so maybe it isn't just cosmetic. Intuitively, it makes sense, if you consider boats in water, and studded tires on ice - but those are a lot different. Without objective measurements under conditions similar to figure skating, it's hard to tell.

In my case, I'm personally certain that getting stronger would make much more difference than minor scratches.

At the moment, I'm pleased with and used to what Pro-Filers do for me. Refinements are mostly a curiosity issue for me. But it would be very cool if Kaitsu were to offer his 3D printed tools, assuming they work well.

I've also thought about simply pulling an abrasive cylinder against the bottom of the blade, using a stretched cloth, pulled tight with my hands and fingers across the sides of the blade - but suspect that would be slower, and possibly harder to control.

I will later take measurements of the thickness of my old Matrix I blades. Near the bottom of the blades, they were ground a little thinner than the rest of the runner - and in a way that pre-scratched them there - which I don't understand since they were Stainless 440 (440C??) alloy blades. It's hard to tell if any additional scratches I create could possibly matter. But measurements of the old Matrix I blades won't do anyone much good - people bought out Jackson Ultima's remaining stock rather quickly (I think a few weeks or less) after they stopped making them, and it's very hard to find them or the chassis for sale over the Internet.

72
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by tstop4me on February 18, 2024, 02:13:36 PM »
Another issue, now that I think of it - I'm not sure the entire 2" length of the abrasive cylinder ("stone") is in contact with the blade - it seems like the rocker curvature would confine it to one short length of contact at a time. Does that mean a shorter tool would do as well?

You could get by with a shorter cylinder, but why would you?  Suppose you used a cylinder 1/2" long instead of 2" long.  You would still want a longer chassis to provide better longitudinal guiding and to make it easier to grasp (otherwise add a handle to make it easier to grasp).  The shorter cylinder would initially be cheaper than a longer one, but it would wear out faster (if you operate the existing Pro-Filer properly, you can spread out the wear over nearly the full length of the cylinder).
73
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by Query on February 17, 2024, 04:18:21 PM »
Holding the blade with the edges down, and pushing up with the sharpener would likely reduce the number of particles that get in between the chassis and polished surfaces, but I don't think it would eliminate them...

And maybe it would leave more particles next to the hollow surface - which might matter more.

I guess almost any abrasive process could have problems with scratching. Do you think it is better or worse with powered sharpening tools?

I've seen powered sharpening tools on which the tech failed to clean the filings off the surface on which the side of the blade glides - but that is a correctable error.

Another issue, now that I think of it - I'm not sure the entire 2" length of the abrasive cylinder ("stone") is in contact with the blade - it seems like the rocker curvature would confine it to one short length of contact at a time. Does that mean a shorter tool would do as well?
74
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by tstop4me on February 17, 2024, 05:16:14 AM »
Not if the tool is UNDER the blade. E.g., if you hold the tool with a vice, as I think Bill_S once suggested, or maybe in your hand, though holding it underneath with my hand makes it a little harder to center it.

As I've said before, I have no trained tool skills, but have to learn from my mistakes. So I have indeed made some scratches. I had to learn to lubricate the sides of the blade, by wetting them - which helps.

Holding the blade with the edges down, and pushing up with the sharpener would likely reduce the number of particles that get in between the chassis and polished surfaces, but I don't think it would eliminate them.  Some will still migrate upwards (particularly in the presence of a lubricant film) during operation.  And when you remove the tool from the blade to flip the orientation of the tool, rotate the cylinder, clean the cylinder, switch blades, or end the operation, it'll be difficult to prevent particles from becoming embedded in the walls of the slot eventually:  e.g., particles will tend to accumulate along the edges of the blade; as you remove the tool, the edges of the blade will likely contact the walls of the slot, and particles will be transferred from the edges of the blade to the walls of the slot.

And as you realize, the edges-down configuration is not ideal for viewing and for applying controlled pressure.  Overall awkward configuration for operation.  As I discussed before, I prefer to mount the blades sideways.

At any rate, I value functionality over cosmetics; however, I realize that many figure skaters place a premium on cosmetics.

75
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by tstop4me on February 17, 2024, 05:15:39 AM »
Just a though: if Blademaster's variant on the Pro-Filer (which they don't seem to call Pro-Filer) has no extensions, just a gap, does that make it harder to align, because the gap isn't as high as the gap+extension? But does it also mean that the tool could sharpen some current generation Matrix and Paramount blades that Pro-Filer might have trouble with?

* The Blademaster website calls their product a "DIAMOND PROFILER".  But if you click on the photo of the complete kit, the packaging reads "PRO-FILER", and even still bears the "Edge SPECIALTIES" mark.  Don't know whether this is just a transitionary phase or what.

* What we don't know (and it's difficult to judge from the Blademaster photo) is how deep/high the slot/gap on the current version is compared with how deep/high the total slot/gap (taking into account the main body of the chassis plus the extension rails) of the original version is.

* I have Paramount blades (their Gold Seal version in 440C stainless steel).  When new, the runners are ~6 mm wide.  For the old Pro-Filer to work, I had to file the extension rails off completely. Needs more careful control.  Some versions of the latest intermediate-grade Paramount blades I saw on display have runners ~8 mm wide. Likely easier to handle.  The Matrix blades I saw on display had narrower runners, only ~4 mm wide.  Not sure that provides sufficient guide surfaces if you modified the chassis to accommodate the narrower runners. 

Approximately how wide are your old Matrix I runners?


76
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by Query on February 16, 2024, 09:43:48 PM »
The holder is harder. I still wonder if one could cut a square board, drill a hole in the center, then cut a gap at right angles, using woodworking tools. I don't have the right tools or skills to do this with high accuracy, but maybe someone with good woodshop tools could do it, to the .01" accuracy of Bill's drawings.

Of course, the wood would eventually wear out. AFAICT, the reason wood is easy to work is precisely because it sheers off easily. One might need to make replacements, if you use it a lot.

Is .01 accuracy good enough to create reasonably even edges?

There is also the Blade Barber:

https://www.bladebarber.ca/

II tried a few cheap skate sharpening tools that were made so poorly, they did an awful job. Did you try this one? Wow would one enforce the ROH - or will it gradually flatten the hollow?

Kaitsu, you've already got real professional grade sharpening tools. So is making your own hand tool just a fun challenge for you?
77
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by Query on February 16, 2024, 09:41:32 PM »
Just a though: if Blademaster's variant on the Pro-Filer (which they don't seem to call Pro-Filer) has no extensions, just a gap, does that make it harder to align, because the gap isn't as high as the gap+extension? But does it also mean that the tool could sharpen some current generation Matrix and Paramount blades that Pro-Filer might have trouble with?

Even if the material of the chassis is soft enough that the chassis itself does not scratch polished chrome (or stainless) surfaces, scratches will be inevitable (in the absence of tape or other protective coating on the polished surfaces).  As you perform the hand grinding, particles of abrasive or steel will come loose and fall in between the chassis and polished surfaces and cause scratches.

Not if the tool is UNDER the blade. E.g., if you hold the tool with a vice, as I think Bill_S once suggested, or maybe in your hand, though holding it underneath with my hand makes it a little harder to center it.

As I've said before, I have no trained tool skills, but have to learn from my mistakes. So I have indeed made some scratches. I had to learn to lubricate the sides of the blade, by wetting them - which helps.

The problem is, I like to see what I am doing (so I only bump into the toe pick), so I do tend to hold the tool ABOVE the blade. So I have have some minor scratches. :(

Just call the scratches an "extended chrome relief" feature.  ::>)
Great idea! Claim the scratches help orient and redirect the blade, or something else vaguely plausible.

The sanding drum that Kaitsu made looks a bit challenging to make - you might need a pretty high accuracy 3D printer. There are commercially available sanding drums, and sanding sleeves that fit them. I wonder if any of them could do the job.

78
The Pro Shop / Re: Changed skates, huge difference
« Last post by Query on February 16, 2024, 09:04:49 PM »
Oh...  :-[ 
79
The Pro Shop / Re: Changed skates, huge difference
« Last post by tstop4me on February 16, 2024, 07:45:33 PM »
The tech I go to is an authorized Aura retailer.  According to him, the company was bought up by John Wilson (the blade manufacturer) and is being reorganized.  They originally sold custom boots only, but for now stock boots only. 
80
The Pro Shop / Re: Changed skates, huge difference
« Last post by Query on February 16, 2024, 07:31:17 PM »
One low level skate tech said Aura is out of business - but I can't confirm that. But he showed me one of their boots, and their website is auraskates.com, and they have a facebook page. The webpage lists an email address.
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