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Author Topic: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"  (Read 4116 times)

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Online Bill_S

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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2016, 05:59:24 PM »
That's money that you wouldn't have otherwise! Glad to hear that it all worked out for you.
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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2016, 06:31:51 PM »
Great news!!  When my health insurance was erroneously cancelled Friday I proceeded to the rink before it was reinstated thinking, well I have "that insurance"....
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Offline dlbritton

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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2016, 07:16:02 AM »
Great news!!  When my health insurance was erroneously cancelled Friday I proceeded to the rink before it was reinstated thinking, well I have "that insurance"....

Just remember the $2500 deductible.

I just hit my primary insurance $4000 out of pocket max so the most the sports insurance will have to pay is $1500.
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Offline Query

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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2016, 07:30:00 PM »
Great!

Now that you've openly published this, it will be interesting to see if USFSA has to change its policy.

I don't know how many people this could affect. I've seen a few people with severe injuries at ice rinks. But between the high deductible, and the part of the policy that says it is "excess", maybe there are just so few people that qualify that it isn't significant?

Do you think most skaters in the U.S. have general health insurance that would cover injuries anyway?

Offline dlbritton

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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2016, 07:49:03 PM »
Great!

Now that you've openly published this, it will be interesting to see if USFSA has to change its policy.

I don't know how many people this could affect. I've seen a few people with severe injuries at ice rinks. But between the high deductible, and the part of the policy that says it is "excess", maybe there are just so few people that qualify that it isn't significant?

Do you think most skaters in the U.S. have general health insurance that would cover injuries anyway?

The sports accident policy is listed on the Basic Skills/Learn to Skate "brochure" as a benefit so they aren't trying to hide it. However it took a bit of searching to actually find out what it is and how to apply so while it wasn't hidden it wasn't easy to apply for.

I doubt my discussing it on this forum is going to change how USFSA handles it. It is partially a pr move in the first place I think. The high deductible and being secondary certainly limits what the insurance company can expect to pay out.

I presume most general health insurance policies in the US would cover this type of injury, albeit maybe with a high deductible of their own. In my case, their exposure is around $1500 since I have met my $4000 out of pocket max with my primary insurance. Many ACA (Obamacare) policies do have deductibles in the $5000 and up range so the sports insurance would be on the hook for any portion above $2500 until the other insurance kicked in. Not to overgeneralize things, but I assume most people figure skating (or having kids skating) do have health insurance since it is "mandatory" under Obamacare.

Overall, it is a "feel good" benefit that probably doesn't have to pay off in many instances and is limited when it does have to pay off.
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Online rd350

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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2016, 02:08:01 PM »
Even with the deductible, $2,500 for not the worst should something like surgery be involved.  Believe it or not, I haven't completely straightened out this mess with my "actual" health insurance yet.  Theoretically, I have it but they "cancelled" my credit card payment from Monday - though no one can explain why!

It's nice to have the additional ice insurance anyway.
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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2016, 09:00:27 PM »
I didn't see the insurance in anything in the LTS USA program materials.
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Offline Query

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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2016, 09:15:50 PM »
I didn't see the insurance in anything in the LTS USA program materials.

Maybe that will mean most people don't realize it is there, to use.

But it is referenced at

  https://www.learntoskateusa.com/signuphomepage

under "Member Benefits":
 
  "Receive secondary sport accident insurance"

There is a lot of info about the new LTS program at http://www.learntoskateusa.com

However, if you then search for "sport accident insurance" at

  http://usfsa.org

or

  http://usfigureskating.org

you (as of this moment) won't find anything. So in some respects maybe it is getting harder to find info about it.

But realistically, they are at the beginning of this revision. Some things can be fixed.

Offline dlbritton

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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2016, 09:18:06 PM »
I was typing my response when Query replied as well:


From   https://www.learntoskateusa.com/signuphomepage/

Member benefits

With your annual fee of $12* you will:
  •   Be a member of the best skating program endorsed by U.S. Figure Skating, USA Hockey and US Speedskating.
  •     Gain great information to make sure your first glides on ice are successful ones.
  •     Access full listings of where to sign up for skating classes.**
  •     Receive a Welcome Packet in the mail
  •     Receive secondary sport accident insurance
  •    Participate in lessons, performances, competitions, and all activities associated with Learn to Skate USA.

I had to call US Figure Skating to find out where it is on the main USFS web site.
It is at http://www.usfsa.org ; Clubs tab ; Then Risk Management ; Look about 1/2 way down the page.
PDF is at http://www.usfsa.org/content/Insurance%20Program.pdf
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Offline Query

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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2016, 09:39:03 PM »
Yes, but looking at that policy, I honestly don't see how injuries occurring while practicing on a rink-run session could possibly be covered. Look at page 3, under Covered Activities". Note also, that the named insured is "USFSA", not you the skater, which I find confusing.

I think you got lucky, and the insurance adjuster gave you money under a very liberal interpretation of the policy - assuming this is the way it was written when you were insured.

Incidentally, Oh, sucrose! Since the rink hasn't renewed my membership yet, I can't log in to the USFSA member page.

However, as of last year, the back of my membership card did mention insurance:

Benefits of Membership
(Some benefits do not apply to all members)
• A subscription to SKATING magazine (1st family member)
• Right to test at U.S. Figure Skating sponsored sessions
• Right to compete at U.S. Figure Skating sanctioned events
• Athletes receive certificates of accomplishment
• Right to participate in U.S. Figure Skating programs and camps
• Right to represent your club at regional, sectional and national events (pending qualification)
• Opportunity to become a member of the U.S., World or Olympic Figure Skating Team
Insurance programs / for information call
  1.800.332.9256 x100


Does the current membership card no longer mention insurance?

Offline dlbritton

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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2016, 10:01:26 PM »
Yes, but looking at that policy, I honestly don't see how injuries occurring while practicing on a rink-run session could possibly be covered. Look at page 3, under Covered Activities". Note also, that the named insured is "USFSA", not you the skater, which I find confusing.

I think you got lucky, and the insurance adjuster gave you money under a very liberal interpretation of the policy - assuming this is the way it was written when you were insured.


Insurance programs / for information call
  1.800.332.9256 x100


Does the current membership card no longer mention insurance?

The wording is very vague and open to interpretation.

Incidentally I looked at the ISI site and their Sport Accident Policay states (paraphrased) it covers accidents incurred while an ISI member is ice skating (period). Nothing about practices, competitions, etc. Plus the ISI policy has a $1000 deductible.

I have not received any new materials including a new card since I renewed. Since I was not in Basic Skills I paid the renewal myself to make sure there would be no question of coverage after the original "rink" sponsored membership expired.
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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2016, 12:04:01 PM »

Does the current membership card no longer mention insurance?

I just got my new card in the mail yesterday and yes, that line with phone number is still on it. 

Who knows what it really means?  Maybe someone should call and find out!

drbritton I think it is great that you are getting something out of this.  I really wonder how many claims made through this LTS insurance program actually pay out at all?

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Re: US Figure Skating sports accident insurance and "ah, the dreaded mohawk"
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2016, 07:57:36 PM »
I looked at the ISI site and their Sport Accident Policay states (paraphrased) it covers accidents incurred while an ISI member is ice skating (period). Nothing about practices, competitions, etc. Plus the ISI policy has a $1000 deductible.

You may disagree with me, but here is my take on this:

The USFSA was formed for the explicit stated charter purpose of helping U.S. elite athletes win International ISU competitions. For the most part, a few thousand dollars here and there aren't an overwhelming issue for the elite athletes, most of whom probably also carry very good health insurance of their own. They don't really need this insurance.

The USFSA also supports associated clubs and associated professionals.

This page

  http://www.usfigureskating.org/clubs?id=84048

make it clear that USFSA insurance is really meant to protect coaches, clubs, and club officers, from liability suits, not individual recreational skaters.

In the sue-happy USA, you can sue a skating club, skating coach, or skating facility, for injuries received while skating. Are legal system being what it is, you might even win. They might well give you more than this insurance policy itself covers - e.g., for "pain and suffering", "loss of work", etc.

I.E., the insurance Company was not trying to help the o.p., who is not their nominal customer. They hope that by giving the o.p. some money, they will prevent the o.p. from suing coaches, clubs, facilities, and their officers. For those people and organizations, defending themselves against such a suit could cost much more than this small payout. Losing the suit could cost even more.

I realize that USFSA's decisions, over the past few years, to advertise and push LTS classes, make it seem that they are interested in supporting recreational skaters. But that isn't their charter purpose. Perhaps it is a meant as way of raising more money to support their elite athletes - and to support USFSA member coaches.

Many sports organization and sorts teacher certification programs offer liability insurance for professionals and organizations - e.g., the American Canoe Association offers insurance to canoe and kayak instructors that they certify. And many sports clubs buy insurance to protect themselves, their officers and their event leaders. No one really expects them to help individual participants, except incidentally.

It doesn't mean the USFSA is doing something wrong by offering a non-comprehensive policy. They just don't happen to provide all things to all people. The National Cattlemen's Beef Association doesn't have to provide consumer health information to the consuming public. That's not their job. Likewise for the USFSA.

ISI was formed to serve a less exclusive group, which includes elite and non-elite skaters, their coaches, and the facilities that support them. So while ISI offers insurance for professionals and facilities, they also include insurance in all individual skater memberships

  http://www.skateisi.com/site/Sub.Cfm?Content=membership_individual_eamc_coverage_summary

which is meant to help help recreational skaters too. It was potentially even more useful before the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" (Obamacare) made health insurance more commonplace - although many people opt for extremely high-deductible health insurance, so it still applies.

All I'm saying is that the USFSA isn't doing anything wrong, compared to the ISI. One just has to understand who they are there to serve. It might be nice if they offered better insurance to recreational skaters, but it isn't central to their purpose. I don't find it troubling that their insurance isn't as good as some might want it to be. I'm surprised the insurance came through as well as it did for the o.p.

Offline dlbritton

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Tomorrow is the 1 year anniversary of my fall.

As far as I can tell, everything has healed up nicely. I have been back on the ice since mid November 2016 and just started another session of LTS tonight. I even did a few mohawks in both directions to prove to myself that I am healed and comfortable on the ice.

I still have a slight reduction in my range of motion compared to my right ankle, but my skates stop me before I reach that point.
However my LTS coach wants much more knee and ankle bend for my power pulls so I may find that point after all.

Several of the parents that were around last year during the time I was in a cast have asked how I am feeling and expressed both admiration and disbelief that I am back on the ice.

As an aside, the Sports Accident insurance paid a little more than $1400 which was the amount of my out of pocket above the $2500 deductible. I signed up for ISI as well just to get a $1000 deductible policy for effectively $10/year.
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