Skate buying stress- WWYD?

[Skittl1321]

I am currently wearing Jackson Competitors size 3 D width.  They are too small (before them I had the same skate in the C width, and they were much too small- the majority of my skate problems -feet falling asleep while skating- resolved when I switched widths.  My current problem is that my big toes feel squished and are developing major calluses on the joint.  When sweaty, I feel like my heel is slipping.)

I am also having a lot of problems with shin splints and tendonitis on top of my ankle joint when doing power class.  I don't know if I can place any of this blame on my boots or not, as there is a lot of repetitive motion, so that aggrevates it too.

Anyhow- it's time for new boots.  They aren't really creasing, but I got them used and they aren't in great shape, plus- too small.
Problem is, I can't tell if they are too small in the length or the width.  I feel like the length is fine.  Standing in them, they are just fine, it's skating when the issues come up. I can lift my toes and wiggle them around.

So I went to have my blades sharpened and got measured for boots.  She also sells Jacksons - so same brand.  She looked at my foot on the insole and went "woah! way too small" and then measured me and came up with a size 4 C width.

I'm just so nervous to order them, because a full size up seems like a BIG jump, especially since I don't feel like length is the problem . My big toe does touch the tip of my skates now, but I have very tapered feet, so the rest of my toes don't.  Could I really need a whole size up?   Going back down to C width means my heel won't likely slip, but am I going to have the "foot falling asleep" problems of the past- or is that from squeezing them into a size too small.

So here's my issue.  This fitter only sells Jacksons (and so does another coach in the area, no one has anything else).  I had been planning on going to Chicago this summer, but buying through her means that I would save enough money in gas and hotel fees that I can get the blades "free" (and then some if I have to go back for adjustments) going up a full size for sure means new blades.

Or do I just suck it up, spend the money to go to Chicago where I can hopefully actually try on other brands? 


Tl:dr I'm stressing about buying skates. Do I buy from the local fitter (who has happy customers, including adults - and sells the brand I currently wear, but I can't try anything on) or do I take a 4-5 hour roadtrip, plus pay for a hotel, to get fitted at Rainbo Sports where I can try on different brands.

[AgnesNitt]

If you're going to go to that much trouble, why not spend a little more and go to Harlicks or Klingeill's and get customs?

Mine are creasing too, and I really want dance boots but they've got another year in 'em.

[Skittl1321]

Because if I don't need customs why spend $800 if the boots I need only cost $300.
I'm not against getting customs if that's what my feet need, but getting those won't be easy either.  It would still entail an overnight road trip.

[hopskipjump]

Do you have a trusted fitter in Chicago? 

Will a rep be in town from other vendors?  My thought...I was going to a local skate shop and for 2 pair of skates we were really happy.  No complaints at all.  For her next pair, I found I could get skates for $60 less elsewhere.  So we did the sizing at the second place (the skates and blades came to about 320). 

I am thinking we made a mistake.  Yes, these skates are lasting longer but I think it is because they were probably too big.  They rub and she has a callous on the back of her heel.  The only reason I don't buy her new skates now is she will have a big growth spurt in August (saves all her growing for summer).

Most of the high level skaters at our rink go to the second place, but I think we will go back to the first place.  I think they do better measurements.  They also pushed for her to upgrade the blade.  Being new to skating I didn't think she needed more than the stock blade.  I do think a better blade would make a difference when it comes to learning doubles. 

Looking at foot damage due to ill fitting skates, I would rather get the best fit vs convenience (or price). I mean she isn't getting custom skates, but at least she can try on all the major brands and find the ones that fit the best.

If you order locally, will she return them if they don't fit correctly?

[aussieskater]

Do you have a trusted fitter in Chicago?  

If you order locally, will she return them if they don't fit correctly?

Both really good questions.

Also, something to consider:  Jacksons come as one-size split width standard, so a skate marked "D" width is D at the ball and C at the heel.  From your description, it might be that if you stick with the Jacksons, you really need a split width: D (or D+?) ball plus narrower than C heel?

As far as the length goes, if you unlace your current boots so they're really loose through the throat, then push your foot far into the front so the longest toe is *just* brushing the toe end of the boot, and then put weight on that foot, do you have any room at the heel?  No room = too short.  Thickness of a finger = too long.

[fsk8r]

Is there a reason why you don't trust the sizing the local fitter came up with? I can appreciate that going up a whole boot size sounds drastic, but did she show you the insole of your current boots. They can tell a lot from that. If you're toes are over the end of the insole, then you do need a size up, and possibly the width issues you're having are because they're not long enough.
There have been numerous topics where people have said that they've gone up a boot size because they couldn't get a boot wide enough in their correct size, so perhaps you've done the reverse?

However, I think if it was me, I'd rather have a choice of boots to try on. I have a very good boot fitter, but he doesn't hold stock in everything I'd want to try. Therefore I've ended up driving around different shops to try on boots from the different manufacturers so that I could make sure I was making the right choice. I've also tried on other people's boots to get a feel for what they are like. It's not easy when you don't have a good pro shop with choice nearby, but there are ways around the situation.

A 4 or 5 hour road trip sounds like a really long way. Is there any chance you can visit different pro shops locally on lots of shorter trips to get the different boots to try? You've quite small feet, so I'd thought there's a good chance your size would be held in stock as they're generally more popular.

[Skittl1321]

Is there a reason why you don't trust the sizing the local fitter came up with? I can appreciate that going up a whole boot size sounds drastic, but did she show you the insole of your current boots.

Just because it seems like a huge step up, and there is no way to try it on.  I need to ask her if I can return them if I'm ordering stock boots, that would make it a little easier.  My toes don't hang over the current insoles, but they are exactly on the top.  They look way too narrow though, but a measuring tape around my foot puts me firmly in the regular width.

A 4 or 5 hour road trip sounds like a really long way. Is there any chance you can visit different pro shops locally on lots of shorter trips to get the different boots to try? You've quite small feet, so I'd thought there's a good chance your size would be held in stock as they're generally more popular.

Unfortunately, it looks like my choices are Omaha (4 hours), Minneapolis (5 hours), or Chicago (4 hours) + a likely an additional hour on each of these because map estimates don't account for traffic and construction.    I was told the fitter from Omaha is going to be at a local competition, so I'm going to wait until that and see if he brings any boots with him, plus he does other brands.

Also, I'm going to start looking at the bottom of everyone at the rink's skates- and see if some of the girls will let me try theirs on.  One of them is bound to be in a 4, and almost everyone of them is in Jacksons.

[Skittl1321]

Do you have a trusted fitter in Chicago? 

Will a rep be in town from other vendors? 

If you order locally, will she return them if they don't fit correctly?

Not a trusted fitter for me, but Rainbo sports was highly recommended by elite skaters in town (well, one told me his fitter was in Ontario, but worth the drive- um... I'm not quite up to an 8+ hour drive, and border crossing. But he trained in Detroit for a good amount of time, so he makes the trip a lot). 

It does sound like a vendor will be at a competition that I'm going to, so I'm going to hold off my decision until then.  That's uncommon though (well, maybe not for them- I've never been to this competition) as most of the competitions around here don't have them.  Our rink doesn't regularly have anyone visit- most of the coaches sell Jackson's. 

Need to find out if she can return them, that will make it a little less stressful.

[Kim to the Max]

Just because it seems like a huge step up, and there is no way to try it on.  I need to ask her if I can return them if I'm ordering stock boots, that would make it a little easier.  My toes don't hang over the current insoles, but they are exactly on the top.  They look way too narrow though, but a measuring tape around my foot puts me firmly in the regular width.

Did the fitter take the measurement both with your foot elevated (resting) and with you standing? My fitter always takes both measurements to make sure to get an accurate fit.

Personally, I am trying to figure out if I have gone down a width or if the padding in my skates is just that compressed. I have lost a lot of weight lately so I wouldn't be surprised if I have gone down a width. I will be ordering new skates around October, but I have given my fitter a heads up that I might be back down to a B width instead of the C I was in. I have also been lusting after blades, which is where my anxiety is coming from...do I go with the new light weight revolution blades, paramounts, or do I stick with my classic Pattern 99....OR do I switch profiles all together and upgrade to a gold seal? Decisions decisions!

Good luck!

[Skittl1321]

Only standing measurements...

Ah blades... I think I'm switching to the Ultima Legacy- I have to decide if I want the Matrix pink ones like my current blades, or just the silver non-matrix ones that are cheaper.

I'm not sure the "light weight" of the Matrix really does anything. (I have paramounts right now.)  But the pink is pretty... of course more kids at our rink have them now, so they aren't so unique.

I'll be going back to a cross-cut toe pick on these though. I liked that when I had Gold Seals, but I've gotten used to the straight one again.  The revolution blades look so cool- but way out of my price range. I only had gold seals because they came on the boot!

[MadMac]

If I were in your place I would definitely make an appointment and do the long drive. The opportunity to try several brands and sizes is key.  The best fit is just too important to your health and your enjoyment of the sport.  

When you call to make the appointment (or email might be better, so everything is in writing)  you could let the fitter know your history so they can maybe check their stock of sizes for you to try.  Let them know you will be making a long drive to see them so they will be sure to give you ample time and attention.  

Good luck!  

[fsk8r]

Can you contact the fitter who's going to the competition in advance so he can bring any boots which are possibly in your size with him?
That way you can get to try boots without having to go that far. Although, it does sound like you might need to make the drive.
 

[FigureSpins]

Definitely ask about the return and refund policies at all shops.  Some charge a restocking fee.


Several years ago, my DD's Jackson boots were painfully small, so I took her for new ones.  She was measured at the exact same size for the new skates.  When I compared the insoles, it was obvious that the new skates were bigger than the old ones, even though the size/width was the same.  The width was closer because it had been heat-molded and stretched.  As you go up in sizes, the last is wider, so you can go down in width.  Just watch the heel to make sure it's not too narrow.

I do think getting measured / fitted at the competition is a great idea as well.  If nothing else, it will give you peace of mind that the sizing is correct at the local shop.

The disadvantage of the trip to Rainbo is that you may have to make two trips if they don't have your size in stock. (Initial for measuring, second one to pick up and be fitted.)  More even, if you need adjustments.  IIRC, Rainbo has good online services - I'm sure if you contact them, they'll help you verify the sizing before you make the trip.

Could you take a train instead of driving that far?  Somehow, long one-day trips are easier when someone else is driving, lol.  Then you wouldn't have to stay at a hotel overnight.

EDIT: Rainbo is having a "Jackson Days" sale from June 4th-12th.
http://shoprainbo.com/shop/site/department.cfm/id/248B9152-D610-7E99-D874562666383401?utm_source=cc&utm_medium=email&utm_content=FG&utm_campaign=JD11

You get guards, soakers and a skate bag (varies by purchase price) when you buy Jackson skates.  I think blades count, too.

Jackson Technical Expert Raj Misir will be visiting Rainbo Sports:
•Livonia, MI: Tuesday June 7th. Tel: 248-426-0700
 •Northbrook, IL: Thursday and Friday June 9th and 10th. Tel: 847-998-1000
•Pettit National Ice Center, Milwaukee, WI: Saturday June 11th. Tel: 414-443-1000

You need to make an appointment.

[sarahspins]

I guess, what I would wonder, when you moved from the C's to the D's, was the change made because you perceived the C's to be too "narrow" but maybe they were just too short and the width would have been fine in a bigger size?  How were you originally fitted for the C's?

A full size my seem like a huge change, but it's really not.... it's a 3/8" difference.  I went up about that much (plus some in width) when I bought my last pair of boots - and I definitely needed the change.  I could barely get into my old boots, and if I had tried to skate in them that way for any length of time I know I would have done some damage.

[Skittl1321]

My original fitting was at a pro-shop in Ohio. They were 99% hockey people.  They suggested a 3.5 because skates should be "roomy and comfortable", and the 3.5 was, at this shop, I got to try them on, but they didn't have any 3s to try on, so we didn't compare in person.  The phrase "roomy" threw me off because you're always told not to buy with room to grow (plus, I'm not growing).  I didn't buy them.

I did a fitting by fax with rainbo sports and that's where I ended up with the size 3Cs (they also sent me a Reidell which I thought was way too long and tight- I won't fit by fax again).  They fit fine off ice, so I went ahead and accepted them (once they are skated in, no returns- because it was a boot/blade set, although if you have to mount blades, you have the same problem- no way to try them out.)  Within minutes of being on the ice, my feet would fall asleep.  Not wearing tights helped a little bit - gave me 15 minutes of foot feeling... so that's why I skate barefoot now, the habit stuck from these skates. I tried all kinds of stretching/heat molding with these, but nothing helped.  I suffered with these for a few months until a coach told me he had a skater 3Ds for sale, I got to skate in them, and they felt okay, but of course I wasn't used to the blade, so it was tough to tell, but they were better than what I had so that's when I moved to the 3D.  The change wasn't made by any fitter.  I also had to use a bit of a width stretcher on these, but they've always been okay.  Not comfortable, but okay. I've never tried to stretch for length.  My coach doesn't have a stretcher that does that.

The 3Ds are mostly okay, but I'm getting large calluses on my big toes, and when I was injured and off ice, they went away, so it's definetly my skates.  I don't have any creasing, but I'm having the pain during my power class that I don't know if I can blame on the boot or not.  They are old though, and they aren't well padded, it's time for nicer skates.

I have gained weight since I got these, so it's possible my foot has also grown a bit. 

[jumpingbeansmom]

Because if I don't need customs why spend $800 if the boots I need only cost $300.
I'm not against getting customs if that's what my feet need, but getting those won't be easy either.  It would still entail an overnight road trip.

My daughter's Klingbeil customs cost the same as her last stock Jacksons

[Skittl1321]

I don't know how much custom Klingbeil's cost, but it looks like SP-Teri are about $775 and Harlick's seem to be about $680, so I'd expect it to be somewhat near that. That's about twice what I intend to spend on stock boots.

I have nothing against going for customs, if that's what I need, but I'd also have to find someone who fits customs.  If my feet don't fit stock boots, I don't mind spending the money on customs, but the big issue is where do I find someone to fit them?  From what I can tell Rainbo only does custom SP-Teri's.  I don't know who in the midwest does Klingbeil's, and I'm not driving more than 6-hours.  My husband already thinks I'm nuts.

[jumpingbeansmom]

I don't know how much custom Klingbeil's cost, but it looks like SP-Teri are about $775 and Harlick's seem to be about $680, so I'd expect it to be somewhat near that. That's about twice what I intend to spend on stock boots.

I have nothing against going for customs, if that's what I need, but I'd also have to find someone who fits customs.  If my feet don't fit stock boots, I don't mind spending the money on customs, but the big issue is where do I find someone to fit them?  From what I can tell Rainbo only does custom SP-Teri's.  I don't know who in the midwest does Klingbeil's, and I'm not driving more than 6-hours.  My husband already thinks I'm nuts.

True, yes, my dd's were about 650.