skatingforums
On the Ice => The Pro Shop => Topic started by: 4d10s on March 06, 2016, 09:33:16 PM
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according to Edea guidelines, boot size 25 has a sole length of 249mm, does sole length equal to footbed length?
From their guidelines, recommended blade size are 9 2/3 n 9 3/4. So can i mount a 9 1/2" MK blade to a 255 Edea boots?
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What does your skate technician say?
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because there's only 1 retailer in singapore and i not confident with them since they are more profit minded. im used to a Risport 250 so now change yo Edea so i needed some professional guidance.
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I've got a 255 Ice Fly, with a 9 3/4" blade mounted. The blade is completely heel to toe on the sole. I don't think that most skate techs would recommend to put a 9 1/2" blade on a 255, it will definitively be short for a heel to toe mounting. Assuming you would mount a 9 1/2" blade on you'd have about 1/4" on the back... I know that some people do do that but I dont think it is recommend.
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I had this conversation with our skate tech just a month ago because we bought 255s. He said we could mount either a 9.5 or a 9.75 but he recommended the 9.75 so that the blade could move up to the next two pairs of boots with her when she grows.
Her 9.75 blade reaches the absolute ends of the sole so the 9.5 is probably going to sit only about a 1/4" short. Her 9.25 MK Pros that had been on her 250s would not work well for her on the 255s and were too small.
Hope that helps.
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Also, how much life is left in your current blades and does it really make sense to keep them for the next pair of skates or are you going to be ready for a new blade sometime soon anyway. That could help make the decision.
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I'm grown adult now and i think the blade still can last for a long time. I seldom skate now but the boot really need to change.
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I've got a 255 Ice Fly, with a 9 3/4" blade mounted. The blade is completely heel to toe on the sole. I don't think that most skate techs would recommend to put a 9 1/2" blade on a 255, it will definitively be short for a heel to toe mounting. Assuming you would mount a 9 1/2" blade on you'd have about 1/4" on the back... I know that some people do do that but I don't think it is recommend.
My skate tech (who has a very good reputation) mounts with about a 1/4"of space left at the heel. The toe plate is flush with the front of the boot. He would put you in the 9 1/2's. The only people I know who consistently recommend the heel to toe mounting are Klingbeil/Avanta, but it seems Physics' tech does it that way too. Looks like you can do whatever, stick with the 9.5's or go up like Physics has done.
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My tech has always insisted on doing the heel to toe mounting on my Edeas and Jacksons.
I have 245 Edeas with a 9" blade if that helps
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I have Edea 255 (Chorus) and bought new blades (pattern 99) for them at 9.5". That was what my skate tech recommended. Then again, my feet aren't growing.
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I have Edea 255 (Chorus) and bought new blades (pattern 99) for them at 9.5". That was what my skate tech recommended. Then again, my feet aren't growing.
how your skates tech mount it? the blade position
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As I recall, the sole plate is pretty close to the front of the boot and there is a small gap between the back of the heel plate and the back of the heel.
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One custom boot maker told me that, on full custom boots, they try to size and position the outsole so that type of mounting (the front of the outsole flush with the front of the blade front mounting plate) will be ideal.
Of course that is hard to do, if they don't see the skater, but have to use someone else's measurements. E.g., the position of the front will vary if the blade is offset - and they have to guess where the foot is most flexible (which should be placed a little behind the sweet spot) based on a foot tracing. In addition, if they don't provide the blades, and they don't know what type of blades will be used, they have to guess where the sweet spot on the blades will be - which varies by blade brand and model.
AFAIK, most of the skate techs try to size the blade so that, with the front flush mount, the back of the blade heel plate will be between flush with the back of the outsole, and up to 1/4" forwards of that (many say 1/8"). Presumably, as with the front mount point, a custom boot maker can try to make that work well with the skater's foot.
But the "normal" positions and lengths can't be expected to work optimal on a non-custom boot, or, even on a custom boot, when the boot maker has incomplete information.
The skate tech I've discussed this with most, who is very well respected, told me that he mounts the front mounting plate flush to the front of the outsole. He knows it doesn't always make the most sense - but if he didn't, most of the people in the business would view him as incompetent.
So, instead of adjusting the front/back mounting position and length, he often reshapes the blades to work with the skater's feet.
Of course he does custom work, so if a skater asked for a different position and length, he would provide it.
Regardless, AFAIK, Edea doesn't create full custom boots. Some of their dealers are trained to modify boot shapes with heat guns or hair driers (their version of "heat molding"), but they can't modify the sole area. So there is no reason whatsoever to presume that a "normal" mounting will be optimal for a given skater and blades.
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Why is fore-aft blade placement so critical anyway? What are the considerations here? i.e. what are the problems with going too far forward or back anyway? Apart from the "unfamiliar factor" of a very different mounting?
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Why is fore-aft blade placement so critical anyway? What are the considerations here? i.e. what are the problems with going too far forward or back anyway? Apart from the "unfamiliar factor" of a very different mounting?
Position of the spin rocker! It needs to be under the ball of the foot.
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Position of the spin rocker! It needs to be under the ball of the foot.
At the risk of sounding stupid, but this is a serious question: why? why not 10mm in front or behind the ball? What's so biomechanically special about that exact spot?
I see talented inline freestyle skaters spin pretty impressively on the front wheel, and that's typically miles in front of the balls. And artistic roller people often spin on their heel axle. So what gives?
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I see talented inline freestyle skaters spin pretty impressively on the front wheel, and that's typically miles in front of the balls. And artistic roller people often spin on their heel axle. So what gives?
For one thing, wouldn't it be very hard to spin inlines anywhere between wheels? :)
For me, on ice, the sweet spot represents something I can FEEL - so I know where I am on the blade. I have a lot of trouble with rocking. Feeling the sweet spot gives me feedback to try to control that. I've tried just barely scraping the drag pick (the rear-most toe pick tooth), but I don't feel as fine control that way. I sharpen my blades in such a way as to slightly exaggerate the sweet spot, so I can feel it more easily.
But personally, at least for turns, I want to have the ball of my foot a little BEHIND the sweet spot. I feel I have a lot more control of my foot just in front of the ball, by 1 or 2 mm.
What about you folks? Where exactly on your foot do feel the most control, for turns and/or spins?
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maybe i just sell the old blade n getting a correct blade fo Edea 255. how is thr combination of EdeaOverture n MK professional(parabolic) for mostly footwork, no jumps?
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my daughter is in 255 and has 9.5.
My son is in 300 and has an 11 !
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i see. can you share a picture how skate trch position mount the 9.5 blade on 255?
much appreciated. ;D
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i see. can you share a picture how skate trch position mount the 9.5 blade on 255?
much appreciated. ;D
But there is no best position. It all depends on your feet and body.
The Edea guidelines are just that - first guesses, for people who have never worn skates before. If your old blades worked well with your old boots, there is no reason to change them, unless they are worn out.
The only way in which boots should effect where the toepick, sweet spot and tail with respect to positions on your foot, is that if your heel is higher, you need a slightly shorter blade, because you would look to approximately retain the horizontal projection of the foot and blade on the ice. If the heel is lower, you need slightly longer blades, for the same reason. If the heel height is the same, the old blades should work fine, unless they are worn out - and if they are worn out, get the same blade length as before, unless you feel you needed a shorter or longer blade on the old skates.
(For kids with growing feet, blades must lengthen with the feet. But that's not you.)
I would claim you would be best off starting with your old blades. Mount them so the position of the front and back of each blade have the same relationship to the front, back and ball points on your corresponding foot (NOT the footbed or boot) as before. If that doesn't work well, play with mount position. If you really don't like the results, then and ONLY THEN get new blades.
Adopting Edea's length guidelines, or assuming you need new blades because the boots are longer or shorter is not only silly, but probably counter-productive.
Sure, a skate tech will tell you to get new blades, whether you need them or not. They are in business to make money.
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visited pro shop yesterday. the retailer told me i can choose 250(tight) or 255(comfort) after measurement. she said that is ok to mount 9.5"inch blade to 255. sp i ordered 255 n plan to mount my old 9.5" blade, exciting.
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I would also think that a 9 1/2 blade on an Edea 255, would be too short. However, if you watch any videos of Julia Lipnitskaya, you can see the on her Ice Fly's that her blades do not go heel to toe. The appear to be mounted like a blade on a traditional boot, with having 1/4 inch space at the heal.
I would also think, with the higher heal profile with Edea's, that it would make things very touchy with such a short blade.
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Updating this thread. I had a 255 Edea chorus with 9.5" pattern 99. After a year of use and much thought I decided to replace the 9.5" with a 9.75". Prior to the Edea I had a 7.5 Jackson with a 10" blade. Since I was never truly comfortable with the shorter blade (hard of course without knowing to guess if it was the blade, the higher heeled boot, or both) I decided last weekend to take the plunge and move up a size (9.75" blade also fits on a 255 Edea). Problems with the old blades included a problem checking my forward outside 3's on the exit (I'm working on silver moves and the 3-turn thing was a problem I had never had before). Two days into the new 9.75" blades and I would say the forward outside 3's are much better and all in all I feel more solid on a ll my turns. Again, I had come from a 10" blade so to some extent it makes more sense that I'm somewhat more comfortable on the slightly longer blade.
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I got a pair of used Ice fly's about a month ago and they are a 240, with a 8 3/4 blade. The blade is not heel to toe. There is space at the heel like a blade mounting on a "conventional" boot.
I was watching a video of Julia Lipnitskaya and her blades are mounted the same way as mine are and she seems to be fine with it. Julia has Gold Seal blades on her Ice Fly's, as I do as well. I had not been able to try my Ice Fly's out yet, due to fitting problems. I hope to try them out this week. :0)
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Edea boots don't have high heels. And I don't know any popular brand of skates on the market (I've had almost all of them, except Harlick and Graf, and I've deconstructed many of them to measure heels and troubleshoot my own foot problems) that have a heel height that is lower than Edeas by an amount that would matter.
The footbed profile placebos people into thinking the heels are high, but they are not.
The decrease in blade size was likely a bigger issue. 0.5" is a huge difference and you're going to feel like you've gone from an 8' Rockered Blade down to a 6' with that kind of change (figuratively, not literally :-P ). If you've been skating on the longer blade for a long time, you may never adjust well to such change. The obvious fix for that is to go up 0.25" and mount end-to-end (which is what the poster above has done).
As for mounting Edeas, they tend to be mounted like any other blade. Personally, I prefer an end-to-end mounting on Edeas (for myself, I used to skate in them) on them because the design of the boot has much to do with the smaller sole measurement. The smaller measurement is expected with such a slanted footbed, but the external heel design (where the blade is mounted) also has implications in reducing blade sizing for those skates.
I'm not sure about other people, but I can feel where my heel is mounted on my boot when I am skating. In Edeas, I couldn't skate when they mounted 0.25 off the back of the boot. It felt way too forward, and it the shorter blade made the boots feel extremely steep. It was scary. I had to go up to an end-to-end mounting on them, which was actually helpful, because when I switched off I just reused the same blades on the "longer" boot soles for SP-Teri :-P
I also mounted Klingbeils and Risports end-to-end. Jacksons I had 0.25" off the back, and I couldn't really "skate" in them.
Mounting blades (gap vs. end to end, alignment, etc.) is really personal though. Like rocker profiles and R.O.H. for sharpening, Lol.
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I got a pair of used Ice fly's about a month ago and they are a 240, with a 8 3/4 blade. The blade is not heel to toe. There is space at the heel like a blade mounting on a "conventional" boot.
I was watching a video of Julia Lipnitskaya and her blades are mounted the same way as mine are and she seems to be fine with it. Julia has Gold Seal blades on her Ice Fly's, as I do as well. I had not been able to try my Ice Fly's out yet, due to fitting problems. I hope to try them out this week. :0)
Standard Guidelines call for a gap at the end, Edeas included. However, it's largely personal. If you are done growing, you can use whichever mount you find most comfortable to you... End-to-End of with <= 0.25" space behind the heel mounting plate. I look at this like I would Rocker Profiles, Radius of Hollow, Pick Designs, and Rocker Radius. Different Strokes for different folk. None of them are "wrong," even if some are more popular (or conventional). Some people will prefer it differently.
I used an end-to-end mounting on Edeas, SP-Teri, Riedell, Klingbeil, and Risport skates. I tried a "conventional" mounting on Jacksons (to save money), and skating felt unstable (even though I could just and spin just fine).
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Someone posted a reply to this thread (I won't say who, since they apparently deleted the post, though it had already been emailed to people like me who requested topic replies), which cited Edea's brtu interesting webpage discussing their heel and footbed:
http://ice.edeaskates.com/en/features/more-control-greater-sensitivity/
That page says that Edea has a substantially different heel wedge (what they call the bend in the footbed around the front of the heel) than "traditional" figure skates - that they are curved rather than flat.
However, both my several year old Graf Edmonton Special boots, and my 12 or 13 year old Klingbeil ice dance boots, have curved heel wedges that looks fairly similar to what Edea is implying to be novel and special. Could they be using "traditional" to referr to something older than 12 or 13 years?
Edea also implies that their boot uses an insole that places the foot closer to the ice than traditional boots. I can't test that claim without having an Edea boot to look at and measure.
Edea's page doesn't say anything about having a higher heel, on average, than other brands, though that doesn't mean they don't. It's hard to believe that they are higher than is often put on ice dance boots - I had Klingbeil modify mine, because they were initially high enough to hurt my feet.