skatingforums
Watching the Zamboni => Spectator Skating Discussions => Topic started by: Query on October 22, 2012, 11:29:15 AM
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I was watching Skate America, and noticed that on good triple and quad toe jumps done by great skaters, most of the angular momentum (spin) doesn't appear to come from the entry edge, or in any significant kind of leg swing. It looks like they jam the toe in so hard that that side of the body stops, while the other side keeps moving forward, most of whose momentum is thereby abruptly converted into spinning around the stalled side.
I guess that means the initial glide speed matters a lot. And maybe explains why upper level toepicks are designed to bite the ice so hard.
What I don't get is why such a sudden stop at foot level doesn't make the skater's upper body pitch forward in the direction of the initial glide.
The good skaters all do an arm swing on the moving side which would counter the upper body movement to some extant - but that doesn't seem like enough.
What am I missing?
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They don't stop, they lift up. Here is a nice breakdown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAWl20HBxJM
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Wow, what a crystal clear video - such a service Orser has done.
The difference in camera angle is everything. Not only does it make clear that she keeps most of her backwards momentum, but it makes clear the forward body lean maintained throughout (especially of the outstretched toe-foot, but also of the spin axis) that makes this possible. She can push against that lean to create the spinning torque in such a way as to generate no torque in a direction that would cause the spin axis to tumble, or the body to pitch forward or back.
Menshov's 7th and 9th jump at this video
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx3GnlX4TlY&feature=player_detailpage]
at 0:45 and 0:54 are about a vertical axis, and he does stop and lose all of his backwards momentum.
Are those jumps inferior?
[BTW, that link is from 2010, so is not a spoiler.]
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Such a shame that I can see these videos and appreciate the underlying physics without being able to do the jumps.
I'll have to wait for the USFSA and ISU to allow us to compete in avatar bodies built to spec or cloned from the bodies of famous skaters. Perhaps next year.
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The second jump was not as nice as Kim's but those are quads. And it is a training practice - he doesn't need to make it perfect if they are working on air position for example. Kim travels far in her jumps as well - but again he is sharing ice and it's a practice.
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1) Contact of the picks in the ice only momentary, and there are movements in the rest of the body (knee bend, in particular) that do counteract the effects that would otherwise "pitch" a skater in one direction.
2) Good core strength/control - which is critical.
3) Rotating fast and being able to land favors a vertical body position - so in effect it's something you learn to do naturally.
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I notice alot of skaters doing triple lutzes lifting their free leg up high then slamming it down into the ice, hard. I've always been told to spend more energy on drawing up and in, than picking into the ice. But slamming the pick in the ice seems to work for, e.g. Miki Ando. ;)