skatingforums
On the Ice => The Pro Shop => Topic started by: Meli on August 27, 2016, 10:41:19 AM
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The new boots are a PROBLEM.
Part of this is my fault... I told the dealer what I wanted/needed (split width) and let her dismiss me with a "Oh, Jackson always has a wider toe box, you'll be fine." (Nevermind that she didn't actually measure me.) Part of this is also some weird switch where things are no longer A, B, C, D, but rather A/B and C/D. (Banging head against wall.) Not sure what I would have done with that info, but...
So things are not fine. Rather, very crampy and painful. Even after the tech's first round of stretching the toe box and a couple weeks of skating on them. Can't spin at all because apparently I like to spread my toes out when I go up on the rocker for a spin... and there's no room to spread. I pulled the insoles and put in those thin 99 cent ones, but there's no support and I'm still cramping. No luck with superfeet insoles either (too thick). Going back to the tech today to see what can be done.
At what point to you give up? I'm half in the mind to buy a ticket to CA and go visit the folks at Harlick.
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Are you in the Premieres? They will do a split width customized order for a $90 up-charge. My daughter has been in Edeas for the last couple of boots and with her recent growth spurt we decided to go back to the Jacksons now that she is bigger, skating stronger and finally has the ability to break in the boots. Bonus for mom, they cost half as much. :D
We ordered the new Premiere boots (DJ2800) with an AA heel and an E toe box a couple of weeks ago. Just wanted to mention that if you like Jackson, they can still do a customized order even though they have gone to a different sizing for their stock boots. Our previous experience was that Jackson is much faster at shipping them out (3-4 weeks) then traditional custom boots (Dd's Harlicks took 16 weeks - although our order was 'lost' for the first 10 weeks). Good luck to you, that is so frustrating that the dealer pushed stock and didn't take the time to get you what you needed.
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Yep, in the Premieres. I had specifically asked about split width, and I think she just didn't want the hassle.
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What about contacting Jackson, explaining you had asked specifically about split width and the shop either wasn't aware or didn't want to take the time to provide that option. Maybe they can offer some kind of a solution rather then loosing a customer to a different brand - might be worth the phone call before totally scrapping what you have.
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The new boots are a PROBLEM.
Part of this is my fault... I told the dealer what I wanted/needed (split width) and let her dismiss me with a "Oh, Jackson always has a wider toe box, you'll be fine." (Nevermind that she didn't actually measure me.) Part of this is also some weird switch where things are no longer A, B, C, D, but rather A/B and C/D. (Banging head against wall.) Not sure what I would have done with that info, but...
So things are not fine. Rather, very crampy and painful. Even after the tech's first round of stretching the toe box and a couple weeks of skating on them. Can't spin at all because apparently I like to spread my toes out when I go up on the rocker for a spin... and there's no room to spread. I pulled the insoles and put in those thin 99 cent ones, but there's no support and I'm still cramping. No luck with superfeet insoles either (too thick). Going back to the tech today to see what can be done.
At what point to you give up? I'm half in the mind to buy a ticket to CA and go visit the folks at Harlick.
I've been in this position before. Here's what I learned from a couple of coaches after a pair of boots that didn't fit. The second time it happened to me I sent email to my tech and complained after 3 days of skating, then (politely) insisted the right boot be rebuilt.
Go back to your tech and be straight about it, that you needed something and they failed to take your needs into consideration and the boots are an incorrect fit, and therfore worthless to you. Be polite but be firm. If they say "Too late," tell them you'll file a complaint in writing with Jacksons. If they still blow you off, post it to Yelp.
Even if the boots are not full customs see if they can be rebuilt. As I learned to my horror, that there's a lot of variance in skates, since effectively all skates are to a degree hand built even if they're stock sizes. Even if it's a 'stock' size it can be sized wrong.
If it's been more than 6 months you're probably out of luck. However, if you don't want to wait for new boots, and you don't want to sell them, there's always "this weird old hint" (http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2013/08/surgical-intervention-on-figure-skating.html).
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"Oh, Jackson always has a wider toe box, you'll be fine."
I don't think that's true.
Get them stretched again.
I've had boots that need to be repunched about once a month. I bought my own punch.
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I don't think that's true.
Get them stretched again.
I've had boots that need to be repunched about once a month. I bought my own punch.
Was that for traditional leather boots, or for heat-moldable boots?
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What brand / model where your previous boots and were they a bigger size? Are the new ones the C/D width? What is the tech actually doing? Are they just punching or are they heat molding too? If you try standing on the original insole is it too small for your foot?
If the tech has punched the toe box out again today, and they still don't work after a few sessions then I'd be inclined to give up.
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I second the split-width modification. I have a B heel and an EEE ball. It was the best money I've spent on skates.
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Was that for traditional leather boots, or for heat-moldable boots?
Heat moldable Jacksons. I often heated them when punching them. They were not stretched.
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What brand / model where your previous boots and were they a bigger size? Are the new ones the C/D width? What is the tech actually doing? Are they just punching or are they heat molding too? If you try standing on the original insole is it too small for your foot?
If the tech has punched the toe box out again today, and they still don't work after a few sessions then I'd be inclined to give up.
I went from a Jackson Premiere 6C to a Jackson Premiere 6 A/B because my heel kept slipping in the C. I wanted to do a B heel with a C ball. I've now had the toe box stretched twice, and I've thrown them in the oven on my own a few times.
I think they might be getting a little better. The second stretch helped, but I'm still cramping a bit. Might need to punch a few places, but I'll give it another week before I go there.
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Cramps are really, really bad signs, that you shouldn't be using these boots. I'm no doctor, but you could be talking significant future health problems.
A skate shop (or skate tech) that doesn't measure when ordering boots isn't worth dealing with.
The sooner you talk to Jackson, without letting the shop get in the way, the more likely they are to help you. I suggest you do it now. It may already be too late, but waiting more, or getting more things done to your boots, will make Jackson less likely to help. At the least, you should let Jackson know the shop is no good, and is unfit to sell their boots.
As an alternative, perhaps Jackson can give you the name of a more competent skate tech within a day's drive, who knows what they are doing?
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I went from a Jackson Premiere 6C to a Jackson Premiere 6 A/B because my heel kept slipping in the C. I wanted to do a B heel with a C ball. I've now had the toe box stretched twice, and I've thrown them in the oven on my own a few times.
I think they might be getting a little better. The second stretch helped, but I'm still cramping a bit. Might need to punch a few places, but I'll give it another week before I go there.
So, apart from the heel slipping the 6Cs were OK? You had sufficient room in the toe box etc.?
It does seem really strange that the tech wasn't willing to order a split width for you, especially as it wasn't like it was a speculative order - if the 6Cs were good in every way except the heel area then making that work would be a win-win.
What's the tech's opinion? Are they thinking that a bit of stretching and everything will work?
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So, apart from the heel slipping the 6Cs were OK? You had sufficient room in the toe box etc.?
It does seem really strange that the tech wasn't willing to order a split width for you, especially as it wasn't like it was a speculative order - if the 6Cs were good in every way except the heel area then making that work would be a win-win.
What's the tech's opinion? Are they thinking that a bit of stretching and everything will work?
At this point, I think the tech really doesn't care. A second stretch was done which helped some. They're still not really working out at this point, but maybe they need more break in time to settle everything around the ankle. The 6C was great except the heel. The problem here is the tech's spouse is the one that "sizes" and orders the boots, so I'm really not sure what her skill level is here. Ugh.
Regionals is being held locally, so I'm going to check out which boot vendors will be there. It may just be time to go custom. Otherwise, I'm moving in a month, and will see what options I have there.
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Ugh. Sorry to hear about all this. I would still email or preferably call Jackson. They may have some suggestions, if not a solution. Give them a chance to help you out....and let them know your experiences with this shops fitting. They can't have happy customers if their POS people aren't competent....
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Interesting discussion with a friend that's a coach... The plot thickens. Apparently I'm not the only one having problems. She actually pulled her students from using these folks because they weren't bothering to fit folks properly (or at all, really). Clearly a bigger issue here than just my own problem. Ugh.
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Interesting discussion with a friend that's a coach... The plot thickens. Apparently I'm not the only one having problems. She actually pulled her students from using these folks because they weren't bothering to fit folks properly (or at all, really). Clearly a bigger issue here than just my own problem. Ugh.
Yeah, I am now going to modify my original suggestion--go straight to Jackson with the whole story.
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Last ditch effort Part A: Went to a different fitter/tech that came highly recommended by one of our adult skaters (gold level) that had boot drama. Saw another adult skater I usually compete against up there when I went in. Basically it was "You're not a narrow. I don't know why they did this." Per measurements, I'm a EE ball with an A heel, but I'm comfy in the (slightly snug) C ball. Also low arches, much probation on the left, and a high instep. Fabulous. Heat molding done. Punching in the arch done. Pretty much an effort to make it work until I lose a little more weight and I go custom.
Better, but not good enough. Still cramping, still unstable.
Last ditch effort Part B: Contacted Jackson. They requested many pics: insoles, soles, feet in boots from top, feet in boots from sides. Waiting for options and further discussion.
Threw blades back on old boots (just a temp mount) to see how I skate in them tonight. Sigh.
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It's probably worth taking both pairs of boots along to Regionals if the Jackson rep will be there so you can actually show them what the problem is.
Do you know if the other people who experienced problems have reported them?
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It's probably worth taking both pairs of boots along to Regionals if the Jackson rep will be there so you can actually show them what the problem is.
Do you know if the other people who experienced problems have reported them?
They haven't. The Jackson rep hasn't had any complaints/issues since 2008. I think others just drifted off without a fight.
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Okay, here's every boot fitting trick I know.
http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2014/08/super-fitting-your-boot.html
Good luck
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Last ditch effort Part A: Went to a different fitter/tech that came highly recommended by one of our adult skaters (gold level) that had boot drama. Saw another adult skater I usually compete against up there when I went in. Basically it was "You're not a narrow. I don't know why they did this." Per measurements, I'm a EE ball with an A heel, but I'm comfy in the (slightly snug) C ball. Also low arches, much probation on the left, and a high instep. Fabulous. Heat molding done. Punching in the arch done. Pretty much an effort to make it work until I lose a little more weight and I go custom.
Better, but not good enough. Still cramping, still unstable.
Last ditch effort Part B: Contacted Jackson. They requested many pics: insoles, soles, feet in boots from top, feet in boots from sides. Waiting for options and further discussion.
Threw blades back on old boots (just a temp mount) to see how I skate in them tonight. Sigh.
Really, at this point, it's quite clear that your shop screwed up. Rather than screw up your feet further, you should ask for a full refund. If they won't refund, then escalate to Jackson. Regardless of official policies, major companies often will set things right as a matter of "goodwill". Be polite, but be persistent until you reach the right person who will act on your behalf. I've often found that reaching the office of the CEO (or president or whoever the head hauncho is) often works. A small shop will balk at eating the cost of a pair of boots; but a lot less impact on the finances of Jackson, whereas good PR is of importance to Jackson.
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I'm really interested to hear how Jackson handles the situation, as it isn't a quality issue but a screwup from a shop. Hopefully they will build you the correct boot. Dd's split width came in yesterday and the fit was spot on, we'll see how they skate later today. I'm glad she is finally big/strong enough and at the right level for these because they fit well and are a big savings from what we were doing. Good luck, I hope Jackson takes care of you.
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I'm really interested to hear how Jackson handles the situation, as it isn't a quality issue but a screwup from a shop.
This is true and also makes me wonder what they'll do. How much control do they have over the customer service given by the shop? The one time I had Jackson/Gam replace a set of boots, they were warped and it was a quality issue. Not sure how far I would have gotten if the shop had been at fault. Would they replace the boots just sort of the save their reputation? Who knows.
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I agree with tstop. The shop messed up and needs to make it right. Like the others I'm curious how jackson handles this situation. Please do keep us posted! We are your cheer section here ;)
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They haven't. The Jackson rep hasn't had any complaints/issues since 2008. I think others just drifted off without a fight.
It's always possible that the other people bought different brands of boots, so may have complained to other manufacturers.
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I'm wondering if you paid with a credit card, and if the credit card company would give you any redress. I have had refunds when I've used paypal to pay for goods
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Have you told the store that you are unhappy with the boots and asked for a refund? It's probably worth doing, because Jackson may contact them for more information and they may say that they didn't know there was a problem, and that they have been trying to help you. I think it will strengthen your case if you have asked for a refund and they have refused. Maybe take a friend along so you have a witness.
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Telling the store first would have been great had it been done within a couple days of arrival. But the O.P. has already waited a fair number of days. The longer you wait, the less likely Jackson is to help, because good fit is sometimes a very transient thing. While that is most true for kids, it can also sometimes be true for adults, for various medical reasons. Also, they wouldn't want people to use their boots for a while, then return them.
There is a good chance it is already too late. In addition, the store may say it has contacted Jackson, or that it will take care of things, then not do so. I wouldn't wait longer than he already has. Jackson needs to know now. Sure, they will probably say to let the store try, but they should have already been contacted.
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I had issues and contacted Jackson. Their response was to contact the dealer. There was nothing they could do.
They even started CCing the Jackson chain of command after the first email response, so I am assuming this is the status quo.
It did catch me off guard a bit. I was used to working with companies like Klingbiel and SP-Teri.
Also, Idont rule out the possibility of manufacturer error. Once I ordered Klingbeil 7A and they sent 7C. Jackson sent size 6.5 boots that felt like size 5s. These things can happen.
See if you can get the boot order from the dealer, as well, to see what exactly they asked for. Just in case... to cover all the bases (assuming that the ant done, otherwise disregard).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Basically giving up. Went to shop with new boots and old boots, told them new boots do not fit (which they already knew) and to remount blades on old boots. Basically, they won't talk to me at this point. I'm annoyed at myself for believing in their insistence that they could make the boot work for me. After dealing with them for three years, I got burned by trusting them.
Jackson said I could send them the boots and they'd see if they were defective at all. If they were defective, they'd replace, but that's it. Have asked if they have a rep coming to regionals so I can avoid the mailing mess.
I'm relocating Oct 1, so I really don't have the time or energy to continue the crusade. I figure I'll keep the boots in the event weight loss this fall makes a difference. Otherwise, skate swap or eBay.
If any of you North Carolina folks have a good fitter, let me know. After I get settled, I'm going to be a woman on a mission!
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How awful!
Some cheap things to try, if you haven't already, before you throw the new boots away:
1. Remove the insoles completely. If you want support, use paper (trace the original insoles on paper. Cut to match.), tape or moleskin on the bottom to provide support where needed. (BTW, raising the arch a bit MIGHT make your foot a little thinner - but it might just give you less space. Try both.)
2. Wear thinner socks (e.g., silk liner socks from a backpacking store). Better still, no socks, though that creates other issues.
3. Lace loosely at the bottom. Use an extra overhand cross to isolate the top and bottom. Better still, don't lace the bottom at all - start a few holes up.
If that combination, together with the toebox stretches you've already had done, isn't enough - I give up. Compensating for somewhat oversized boots is so much easier than somewhat undersized boots.
I'd say you've been more than fair to your dealer and skate tech. You haven't even told us all their names.
You trust the dealer enough to let them remount the blades on your old boots???
Even if Jackson wasn't helpful, I would let them know the dealer failed completely, that you are discussing your bad experience with Jackson boots over the Internet through this forum, and that you are switching boot brands. Probably won't help, but you don't know til you've tried.
BTW, Harlick has a pretty good reputation for dealing with wide toes, and for doing major boot customizations. But even for them - I'd call the manufacturer for a skate tech recommendation.
Good luck on your next new boots!
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Oh golly, what a total, complete and utter drag. I do agree that you should let Jackson know about the dealer, and do hope that you get to talk to a live rep at regionals. My fingers are crossed for you.
I don't have anywhere near the issues you do, but have dealt with fit issues my whole life. Split widths were called "full on customs" when I was a kid, thus financially not an option. As an adult I've been sized as a C/AA in Jacksons, and plan to get that when it comes to be boot time again. At the moment I'm in C width Risports that work in the heels but are excruciatingly tight across the toes. I've had them punched out, which helped, but had to complement with do some odd lacing to make them wearable. My coach isn't a fan, but shoot- I can stay in the skates for 2 hours with acceptable levels of discomfort (more from skating than the skates iykwim). Here's a link to my post about it:
http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=6703.msg81003#msg81003
I think reply #5 has the pictures, if the above link doesn't take you directly to it.
My next step, if it comes to it, is what Agnes did to hers, slicing those suckas open. My right foot, which has a lovely bunion on it, still complains. But there is that reality issue....these are skates after all, not slippers (but a girl can dream, no?)
Good luck getting it sorted. If you're willing to make the trek up to MD once you're in NC, I can put you in touch with an awesome skate tech. He's taken care of me my whole life, and when I come stateside, I bring my skates so he can make them right.
Good luck with the move!!!!!
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Where in North Carolina?
If Mark Ladwig is at regionals for Jackson, have him measure you. He did mine, then I took them to our local shop and they ordered to his exact measurements. He'll write them down for you. Don't give up on the brand you like yet.
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Where in North Carolina?
If Mark Ladwig is at regionals for Jackson, have him measure you. He did mine, then I took them to our local shop and they ordered to his exact measurements. He'll write them down for you. Don't give up on the brand you like yet.
Asheville area... But not afraid to drive to get the job done right!
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I ended up using these to make my tiny heel fit better in the boot....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-Kuangmi-Exercise-Sprain-Protection-Belt-Ankle-Brace-Support-Guard-Pad-Band/221951258951?_trksid=p2060778.c100275.m3474&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140723144412%26meid%3D1fba18b9c9f34269ad4984568519fc10%26pid%3D100275%26
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I ended up using these to make my tiny heel fit better in the boot....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-Kuangmi-Exercise-Sprain-Protection-Belt-Ankle-Brace-Support-Guard-Pad-Band/221951258951?_trksid=p2060778.c100275.m3474&_trkparms=ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140723144412%26meid%3D1fba18b9c9f34269ad4984568519fc10%26pid%3D100275%26
Dear god, if that's what it takes you should sue your tech or at least complain to Jackson and the BBB
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Do you mind if I ask which fitter you went to the first time and the second time? I see that you are located in TX. I'm just curious because I'm going through a boot drama also. Just want to find out if you went to the same fitter that I went to. You can message me if you don't want to post specific names or place.