Author Topic: What's happened to my blades - they've turned into square wheels? (Read 8148 times)

Christy · « **on:** March 02, 2015, 01:11:20 PM »

I had my blades sharpened by a new, highly recommended, sharpener yesterday. I was really hopeful that he'd do a great job as he's only a few hours drive away, and he definitely seemed to know his stuff. The sharpening process was slightly different to my usual sharpener but nothing major, so it was a bit of a shock when I got on the ice today and discovered that my newly sharpened blades felt like square wheels. Basically no matter how I skated - two foot glides, forward stroking, etc. it felt like I was skating over a set of uniform ruts.
The ice wasn't perfect but I've skated on similar many times and never felt anything like today. I've looked very closely at the blades and can't see anything that would explain the problem.

Also as expected I found stopping difficult, however I found they slipped when I tried forward crossovers.

Any thoughts on the possible cause of the problems, and how I could fix them please (until I can get to my usual sharpener)?

rd350 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2015, 03:07:15 PM »

I don't know what you can try but did you call the new sharpener and discuss? I would start there, then maybe call the old one and get some input, if you are comfortable telling them you went elsewhere, but did so because they were much closer.

Make sure what the ROH was. Did they tell you? Did you tell them what you normal get?

Query · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2015, 03:29:18 PM »

You can feel the sharp edge on the bottom, right? And there is no new rust on the blade that could be slowing you down?

I would try skating somewhere else, a different day, with as nice ice as possible.

Otherwise, I'm with rd350.

Christy · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2015, 03:41:39 PM »

Absolutely no sign of rust on the blades - I checked them as soon as I came off the ice and they look totally fine. I was expecting them to have tiny ridges all of the way down.
There were some nice patches of ice that I tried skating on, and they felt the same. The "bumps" were so uniform it soon became obvious it was the blades rather than the ice quality that was the problem.
I'm planning to contact the sharpener from yesterday but wanted to check I hadn't overlooked something first, and will happily call the original sharpener as I will probably need him to sort them out!!

rd350 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2015, 06:27:42 PM »

Good luck! That's really frustrating.

celia · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2015, 06:54:27 PM »

One thought to throw out there - and I have no idea if I'm right. When I used to hand hone/sharpen my skates with this things called a ProFiler (maybe they're still in existence), at the end you had to stone the sides of the blades with a very fine stone to knock off the burrs caused by the sharpening process. I think the burrs are caused when you machine sharpen as well - and professional sharpeners stone the skates when they are done (a pro sharpener/rink manager once showed me how he did this - holding the stone at ever so slight an angle so as to not mar the chrome, or as in the case of the ProFiler, you masking tape the blades and hone them dead parallel). The burrs are basically invisible and very hard to feel with your fingers - but the blades won't glide. If you're looking for a temporary fix until you have your regular sharpener put things back to how they were - maybe ask a local sharpener if this is the problem/ if they can stone them down. Good luck!

Live2Sk8 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2015, 07:10:33 PM »

I wonder if the new sharpener used a different radius of hollow (ROH)? That happened to me once - sharpener did it by accident - and when I got on the ice, I could barely go forward at first. Then my blades sounded like a freight train on the ice when I did crossovers. When I tried 3-turns, it felt like the blade, not I, was in control. I couldn't stop, which is never a problem with my sharpener. Of course I thought it was me, but for once, it wasn't!

AgnesNitt · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2015, 07:27:20 PM »

I've taken my blades to a highly recommended sharpener when my old guy was out at Nationals.

Man, just hated the new guy's sharpening. The edges weren't even and they would chatter no matter what I did.

When my guy retires I guess I'll have to sharpen my own somehow.

Christy · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2015, 09:14:33 PM »

I just spoke to the new sharpener and he said he wonders if he made a mistake and has offered to re-sharpen them for me so I have agreed to let him have another go. I'm a little bit worried, but think it's only fair to give him a second chance.
Thinking about the overall process I really don't remember seeing him doing the stoning bit at the end which my usual sharpener always did, and the equipment they use is pretty similar, so maybe that it where the problem is. I'll mention it when I see him next.

Christy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2015, 03:17:49 PM »

Haven't managed to see the sharpener yet but did get the opinion of another really excellent sharpener (who can't sharpen the Matrix blades

)
and he's said that whilst the sharpening is really nice and smooth the rockers are both wrecked, and also totally different. He reckoned the rocker would be great on a hockey blade belonging to a 10 year old!!
I know there's a guy who should be able to repair the rockers, trouble is that he actually does loads of machinery sharpening so the place is a dust bowl and the last time I took skates there they came out sporting more black patches than the average Dalmatian!! Oh well, looks aren't everything - I'd rather have usable blades than pretty skates

rd350 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2015, 11:01:16 PM »

Can you cover the boots?

Christy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2015, 08:14:28 AM »

Quote from: rd350 on March 04, 2015, 11:01:16 PM

Can you cover the boots?

I've been thinking the same thing. Wondered about putting my boot covers over them but they're very nylon-y so worried that they'll make them too slippery for him to handle.

davincisop · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2015, 08:26:06 AM »

what about skate taping the boots? Then there's no slipping and the boots are protected.

Query · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2015, 01:25:03 PM »

Sharpeners are a little like auto mechanics.

They love to say that the other sharpener did everything wrong. Take such things with a grain of salt. Also remember that many things, including exact profile, are determined by the individual sharpener, because there is no standard by which things are done, so sharpeners often think things are totally wrong - but they are just the way another sharpener does it. Than can even be true between two of the greatest masters.

If the person forgot to stone your blades, to deburr or redirect the burr, you will feel an slight edge on the side of the blade, near the bottom of the blade (where it touches the ice).

The blades should feel very smooth from the side. Another thing that can slow you down, by the way, is if he leaves the side very rough. Though I doubt it would be all that drastic.

Profile does not explain why your blade would skate slowly (if that is what you mean by square wheels), unless you are skating on your toe pick.

Good luck.

Christy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2015, 02:18:23 PM »

Interestingly the guy who reviewed the skates yesterday was very complimentary about the work of the sharpener who caused the problem, whilst the guy who caused the problem was very critical of the sharpener I usually go to (and who's work has never caused my any problems!). I really hate it when people criticise other people's work for no good reason.

The blades do feel very smooth at the sides, and that's what the guy yesterday said, so I don't think burrs are the problem.

Basically what is happening is when I stroke or glide on either or both feet it feels like I am skating over a series of uniform pipes or ridges, however speed isn't a problem, or at least it wouldn't be if my teeth would stop chattering!

AgnesNitt · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2015, 03:48:04 PM »

Quote from: Christy on March 05, 2015, 02:18:23 PM

however speed isn't a problem, or at least it wouldn't be if my teeth would stop chattering!

I've had this exact same problem.

The edges are not even.

http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2013/03/blade-noise.html

I took them back to my old sharpener and that is what he found.

Christy · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2015, 08:32:23 PM »

So did it feel like you were skating over ridges too?

AgnesNitt · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2015, 10:51:57 PM »

Quote from: Christy on March 05, 2015, 08:32:23 PM

So did it feel like you were skating over ridges too?

I don't remember that sensation. But that may be because I'm not as advanced a skater as you and so didn't notice it.

Query · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2015, 06:41:11 PM »

You can test for even edges:

Get a Popsicle stick. Popsicles (or other brand) are available in dollar stores.

Turn the skate upside down and hold it so the blade is vertical (e.g., between your knees or in a vice (don't squeeze hard enough to distort the shape of the boot). Balance the stick on top on edge, looking at the blade from one end. The stick should be at a right angle to the height of the blade. Slide the stick from one end of the blade to another. It should stay at that same right angle.

Note: if one edge is uniformly higher than the other by a small amount, you will not get the effect you have seen - you will just need to compensate by tilting your leg and hip a bit. AgnesNitt's effect would be from a non-uniform height difference, that varied along the blade - which would make your Popsicle stick tilt to and fro as you slide it along the blade.

Healthy hint: Don't eat the Popsicle.

icedancer · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2015, 08:29:20 PM »

The one thing that I am wondering is if you are hitting the bottom of the back of the blade when you stroke. This can happen sometimes - you can feel it hit - and if you look at the blade from the side you can see the back of the blade is a little higher than it should be -

I'm not describing this very well. Maybe you should take a photo of the blade and post it here - I would be able to tell from a photograph. This is a very common thing that happens with one of the sharpeners in my area - I can see it from a distance at this point!

Christy · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2015, 09:19:46 PM »

Well, the blades have just been resharpened and the sharpener thinks the problems were caused by the edges being a bit off. I can't test the blades for a few days but I'm keeping everything crossed that the problem was identified and fixed.

Christy · « **Reply #21 on:** March 11, 2015, 01:54:38 PM »

So the vibration has reduced but the rocker is scaring everyone and I can just about manage a circuit of the rink. Tried to spin but couldn't even manage a single rev and my 3 turn was a disaster so I've returned to my old skates until I can get to my old sharpener who has promised to fix them.
However the rocker is seriously badly curved - I'm just wondering how much steel the sharpener is going to have to remove to fix them. They've only been sharpened 4 times (twice properly, twice badly) - will I have any blade left??

Query · « **Reply #22 on:** March 11, 2015, 11:15:11 PM »

I hate to say this - but I think you need another sharpener.

It costs a lot of money, in terms of blade life, for a sharpener to keep trying again and again.

Christy · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2015, 08:44:45 AM »

Sorry, should have been clearer. I am now going to original sharpener to have him fix the rocker so it will hopefully be a one off as he will be the only person who ever sharpens my skates again (lesson learned!!!), but I know it's going to require some work as the rocker damage was obvious from quite some distance. He hasn't seen blades yet and probably thinks I'm exaggerating, but I do worry that the blade can't be saved.

rd350 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2015, 09:06:15 PM »

Big bummer. When are you going to the old sharpener? Hope all goes really well!

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Author Topic: What's happened to my blades - they've turned into square wheels? (Read 8148 times)