Kaitlyn Weaver wearing Skate Science blades?

[streetsmart]

I've seen some pictures/close ups from this season and she appears to be wearing Skate Science blades, if I am seeing the cut-outs correctly.  Plus, they do seem to have higher stanchions, which is something Skate Science advertises. 

Has anyone else noticed this or can anyone confirm this?  I just find it very interesting, that's all.  People have posted on here wondering what they are like and if anyone actually wears them, and this would be a plus for them if she is in fact using them.  I need confirmation though.

[icedancer]

I haven't taken an up-close look at them but elite skaters will often get free equipment to try - it is great way to advertise for relatively new companies.

I am guessing this is the case here.

[davincisop]

I'm interested to see how these blades develop and if more skaters wear them. There's a gentleman at my rink that is switching to them soon.

[Loops]

I'm interested to see how these blades develop and if more skaters wear them. There's a gentleman at my rink that is switching to them soon.

Ooh, I would love to know which model he gets and what he thinks, so please keep us in da loop!  One of the guys at my rink has the dance ones and is happy.  Now that my French is better, I want to ask him again what he thinks of them- if he'll replace in kind or move onto something else. 

[alejeather]

My dance coach wears them and loves them. I've known a few people on the dance blades who have liked them and stuck with them. I know some people who have tried their FS blades but none who have stuck with them.

[davincisop]

This guy was dead set on a 7ft rocker (he's newer to skating, but talks like he's been doing it for years, so I take it all with a grain of salt...) but had no idea that MK blades have a 7ft rocker. With that said, somewhere he saw the blades and since he doesn't do freestyle, only MITF, he wants to get the dance blades.

I'll definitely let you know what he thinks when he gets them.

[Loops]

That'll be interesting. My interpretation from reading between the lines on their website, SS has closer to an 8ft rocker. Does anyone know offhand if my guesstimate is accurate?

[alejeather]

My dance coach said they are not rockered in the same way as other blades, and so you can't really describe them as 7' or 8' rockers.

[icedancer]

My dance coach said they are not rockered in the same way as other blades, and so you can't really describe them as 7' or 8' rockers.

Oooh - now I am really curious about these blades!

[streetsmart]

I haven't taken an up-close look at them but elite skaters will often get free equipment to try - it is great way to advertise for relatively new companies.

I am guessing this is the case here.

Even if they were given to her for free, the fact that she is still using them during a season in which they are competing for a world championship says a lot.  She must like them!

[Loops]

Oooh - now I am really curious about these blades!

Yeah, me too. I've been ogling their synchro blades, but am open to other options. Depends on what my needs are when I need new blades. My eyes are on these though!

[Query]

From what I have been able to find out, which may be all wrong, Skate Science freestyle blades have a more curved spin rocker, a shorter roll distance from the sweet spot to the toe pick, and therefore a toe pick that is closer to the foot. I.E., like Jackson Ultima blades, but more so. That is consistent with the idea that they are designed for elite skaters with a lot of physical strength.

But when I talked to the person in charge of Skate Science, he claimed that his blades would be better for me too, though I rarely attempt more than half rotation jumps. I think he wants to sell blades.

I've often thought it would be wonderful if skates had easily interchangeable runners (like the old "Perfecta mount", now mostly used on a few goalie skates, or the hockey T-blade mount), and you could buy lots of types of cheap non-durable runners to try. Or if there were businesses that let you rent multiple blade types. But the closest thing for figure skates, the Ultima Matrix 1 system, is no longer made.

[PhysicsOnIce]

I have an appointment with Warren ( the president of SS)  on Monday of next week to have a sit down chat/interview about his blades, and what makes them different from other blades. For me this is a two part interview mainly, I'm actually interested in seeing what physics he has applied to the creation of the blades. I'm considering the DoublePlus versus the Phatoms. So if you guys have any specific questions, I can definitively ask.

[Loops]

I'm very curious as to what you find out, so please share the results of the interview!

Me personally, I'd like to know details about the rockers, the spin rocker in particular (radii involved, also where is it relative to the middle stanchion), since I do more of that.   If I'm still only doing dance/synchro when I need new blades, I'll be looking at his synchro model, I'd love to know how long they are, well, how much the tail sticks out from under the boot- while I'm a fan of the shorter blades for now, I'd love my Vision Synchros to be about a cm longer.  Also, I can probably tell from the photos he has, but the drag pick, is it a real one, or is it shortened/angled?  If I'm jumping again, then I'll probably be looking at something similar to you, and I bet you've similar questions to mine.

Also stanchion height, more as a point of curiosity than anything else.

If you can look at the diagrams on the Paramount website, the ones that compare the P99, GS and Phantom, I'd love it if you could finagle something akin to those out of him.

In terms of materials, his are all Stainless Steel, he goes into some detail on his website about the specifics of its composition.  Maybe he mentions this, but I forget- how long do these hold an edge?  Are they like paramounts where you can go for ages, or closer to the standard carbon steel?

What's the greater context for all this? Are you doing a comparison study?  So curious as to what you interpret from a physics standpoint of how these compare to the old standards.  I have a real sneaking suspicion though that a fair bit comes down to personal technique and which blade will provide the optimal interaction with the ice. 

Cool!!!  Enjoy the interview, whatever info you get, I'd be very curious to learn!

[alejeather]

In terms of materials, his are all Stainless Steel, he goes into some detail on his website about the specifics of its composition.  Maybe he mentions this, but I forget- how long do these hold an edge?  Are they like paramounts where you can go for ages, or closer to the standard carbon steel?

When my dance coach switched to skate science blades, he said he went from sharpening his skates every 10 days to once a month. I know every 10 days sounds like a lot, but he partners all his students and is probably on the ice close to 40 hours a week. He said it wasn't a full sharpening every time, but he was touching them up that frequently.

Also, because of the all stainless construction, he is able to keep them a lot longer. Right before he last replaced them, I was noticing that his blades looked short or low. It's because he was able to just keep sharpening and sharpening, until it got ridiculous!

[TropicalSk8ter]

I have an appointment with Warren ( the president of SS)  on Monday of next week to have a sit down chat/interview about his blades, and what makes them different from other blades. For me this is a two part interview mainly, I'm actually interested in seeing what physics he has applied to the creation of the blades. I'm considering the DoublePlus versus the Phatoms. So if you guys have any specific questions, I can definitively ask.

I'm also interested as well in knowing how the interview with SS went! Don't forget to share the knowledge!

[Loops]

When my dance coach switched to skate science blades, he said he went from sharpening his skates every 10 days to once a month. I know every 10 days sounds like a lot, but he partners all his students and is probably on the ice close to 40 hours a week. He said it wasn't a full sharpening every time, but he was touching them up that frequently.

Also, because of the all stainless construction, he is able to keep them a lot longuer. Right before he last replaced them, I was noticing that his blades looked short or low. It's because he was able to just keep sharpening and sharpening, until it got ridiculous!

That's very interesting! And exactly the kind of thing I was looking to know...... gracias

[PhysicsOnIce]

I had to cancel my meeting with Warren on Monday due to a work conflict that came up last minute, but rescheduled for "sometime" this week, probably Thursday or Friday. I'll let you guys know.   

[PhysicsOnIce]

Warning this is a bit long!

So much to my disappointment, I have not been able to speak directly with Warren about this blades, but did send him an email message asking him a few (more like all ) the questions most of us are asking.

What type of skaters are you targeted toward?
The website claims you worked with renowned world and Olympic coaches and you yourself are an Olympic skater, can you be more specific on who helped create and design the SkateScience Blades?
There are rumours that Kaitlyn Weaver is wearing SkateScience blades, is this true? And/or can you give me some other names of top level skates wearing SkateScience Blades?
How does the SkateScience blade profiles compared to for example the MK Phantom, MK Professional, Gold Seal or Pattern 99?
What are the specific rockers radii?
What is the lift angle?
How long are the Synchro tails?
What is the stanchion height?
The toe rake on the TripleQuad has a very interesting design, with three “large” toe picks near the bottom; what is the reason behind that? Is this to allow a more direct transfer of momentum and provide more explosivity? If so, how was this testd?
The toe rake on the DoublePlus looks to be similar to that of the MK Phantom, what makes the landings less ballistic?
The MK Phantom has a 7ft primary radius with a 8ft radius on the tail, do any of the SkateScience blade have this type of back radius divide? If not, why do you feel it is not necessary?
Most new blades are being made of a carbon fiber and stainless steel combination. You have chosen to do a completely a high performance stainless steal blade, because according to the website the blade/boot ratio is very low and does not have a large impact. Why is that?
How much do these blades actually weigh?
What is the SAE steel grades used on the blades?
Do you use HSLA steel?
Using complete steel, assuming harder steel, blades would suggest that the lifetime of the blade should be increased, correct?
How long do these blades typically last?
Typically skaters go about 45 – 60 hours on traditional blades, some having to travel multiple hours to get skates sharpened. How long can a skater expect do go between sharpening?
Lets say a skater working on all doubles is switching from MK Pro to DoublePlus, how long do you expect the transition period to take? And what effects do you expect the transition to have?

However, much to my disapointment his reply was not as technical as I would like, but did answer some of the questions. Here is the direct copy of the email:

I am sorry. But as you may be aware, almost every manufacturer of figure skating blades practically copied the ancient designs of MK/John Wilson. Indeed, most shamelessly, even advertise this fact. That is to say, in figure skating, intellectual property is considered a commodity that anyone can gain profit from, without recourse to licensing or compensation. For that reason, we decline to give any information regarding our designs, materials, development, etc., save what you can read on our website.

I can tell you however, that stainless steel blades hold their edge longer than carbon steel blades. And that they are lighter. Though not as light as aluminum/steel hybrids. The SS weight differential with the Revolution blades, is so close, as to be insignificant. The front radius design as it relates to the toe pick and the main radius; is what makes the SS blade landing less ballistic. Extra large front toe picks are for optimum pre-jump rotation on multi rotation, toe jumps. Transition from MK/John Wilson designs, and their copies, to SkateScience blades takes approximately 1-2 Sessions. After only two full competition seasons since launch, several Junior and Senior Grand Prix, and Junior/Senior World athletes compete on SkateScience blades. Junior world medals, including gold, have been won on SkateScience blades. We have two junior world gold medallists, currently in SS blades. We believe that this penetration of elite level skating athletes into a new brand is unprecedented. We sell into every major figure skating nation.

I hope you understand SkateScience's reluctance to advertise proprietary information. The proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating.

Regards,

Warren Maxwell.
Pres. SkateScience.

[TropicalSk8ter]

Warning this is a bit long!

So much to my disappointment, I have not been able to speak directly with Warren about this blades, but did send him an email message asking him a few (more like all ) the questions most of us are asking.

What type of skaters are you targeted toward?
The website claims you worked with renowned world and Olympic coaches and you yourself are an Olympic skater, can you be more specific on who helped create and design the SkateScience Blades?
There are rumours that Kaitlyn Weaver is wearing SkateScience blades, is this true? And/or can you give me some other names of top level skates wearing SkateScience Blades?
How does the SkateScience blade profiles compared to for example the MK Phantom, MK Professional, Gold Seal or Pattern 99?
What are the specific rockers radii?
What is the lift angle?
How long are the Synchro tails?
What is the stanchion height?
The toe rake on the TripleQuad has a very interesting design, with three “large” toe picks near the bottom; what is the reason behind that? Is this to allow a more direct transfer of momentum and provide more explosivity? If so, how was this testd?
The toe rake on the DoublePlus looks to be similar to that of the MK Phantom, what makes the landings less ballistic?
The MK Phantom has a 7ft primary radius with a 8ft radius on the tail, do any of the SkateScience blade have this type of back radius divide? If not, why do you feel it is not necessary?
Most new blades are being made of a carbon fiber and stainless steel combination. You have chosen to do a completely a high performance stainless steal blade, because according to the website the blade/boot ratio is very low and does not have a large impact. Why is that?
How much do these blades actually weigh?
What is the SAE steel grades used on the blades?
Do you use HSLA steel?
Using complete steel, assuming harder steel, blades would suggest that the lifetime of the blade should be increased, correct?
How long do these blades typically last?
Typically skaters go about 45 – 60 hours on traditional blades, some having to travel multiple hours to get skates sharpened. How long can a skater expect do go between sharpening?
Lets say a skater working on all doubles is switching from MK Pro to DoublePlus, how long do you expect the transition period to take? And what effects do you expect the transition to have?

However, much to my disapointment his reply was not as technical as I would like, but did answer some of the questions. Here is the direct copy of the email:

I am sorry. But as you may be aware, almost every manufacturer of figure skating blades practically copied the ancient designs of MK/John Wilson. Indeed, most shamelessly, even advertise this fact. That is to say, in figure skating, intellectual property is considered a commodity that anyone can gain profit from, without recourse to licensing or compensation. For that reason, we decline to give any information regarding our designs, materials, development, etc., save what you can read on our website.

I can tell you however, that stainless steel blades hold their edge longer than carbon steel blades. And that they are lighter. Though not as light as aluminum/steel hybrids. The SS weight differential with the Revolution blades, is so close, as to be insignificant. The front radius design as it relates to the toe pick and the main radius; is what makes the SS blade landing less ballistic. Extra large front toe picks are for optimum pre-jump rotation on multi rotation, toe jumps. Transition from MK/John Wilson designs, and their copies, to SkateScience blades takes approximately 1-2 Sessions. After only two full competition seasons since launch, several Junior and Senior Grand Prix, and Junior/Senior World athletes compete on SkateScience blades. Junior world medals, including gold, have been won on SkateScience blades. We have two junior world gold medallists, currently in SS blades. We believe that this penetration of elite level skating athletes into a new brand is unprecedented. We sell into every major figure skating nation.

I hope you understand SkateScience's reluctance to advertise proprietary information. The proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating.

Regards,

Warren Maxwell.
Pres. SkateScience.

Sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo to me (no disrespect toward skate science), there's no real solid details and facts besides the few he provided about stainless steel and somewhat blade design.  He didn't name any specific skaters skating on them?? 

[TropicalSk8ter]

Sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo to me (no disrespect toward skate science), there's no real solid details and facts besides the few he provided about stainless steel and somewhat blade design.  He didn't name any specific skaters skating on them?? I had sent him an email once for more information on the blades and never got an email back.

[Loops]

Well, I'm disappointed in his response.  He could have saved everyone a lot of time and kept it to one line about proprietary information.

While I get what he's saying, it also sounds also like he's a bit bitter somehow (getting that from the phrase about intellectual property and no compensation). 

I personally would really like ALL the manufacturers to open up and give more specifications on this kind of thing.  Blade geometry I suspect has a significant effect on one's skating, and learning what works best for each of us would be a lot easier if we weren't operating effectively from a grab bag.

Plus, I'm not sure how accurate his statement is.  People on these forums have talked about how blades advertised as having similar profiles have a quite different feel.  So while yes, there is copying happening, always will be, everybody does also seem to be doing their own innovations in terms of materials by tweaking the geometry.  The only one who seems to be overtly copying is Paramount.  Am I wrong here?

He really could have used this opportunity to impress you (and all of us) with the physics behind his designs.  I bet he could have even done it without giving away the company secrets.

[icedancer]

The other thing that seems obtuse about his response is the part where he says that several elite skaters are wearing his blades - well of course they are since they are given them FOR FREE to try out (or a very reduced rate) - so it's not like they are their coaches decided that their old blades were just trash and these must be better (although maybe they do like them better) -

Anyway, yeah, the blade thing is a crap-shoot - so to speak.
Lisa

[Loops]

The other thing that seems obtuse about his response is the part where he says that several elite skaters are wearing his blades - well of course they are since they are given them FOR FREE to try out (or a very reduced rate) - so it's not like they are their coaches decided that their old blades were just trash and these must be better (although maybe they do like them better) -

'specially since he didn't name names.  Wilson/MK are ALL OVER IT with shouting out their skaters.  I really want to like these blades, and of course try them, I'm so intrigued.  But I am so so disappointed here.

[PhysicsOnIce]

He really could have used this opportunity to impress you (and all of us) with the physics behind his designs.  I bet he could have even done it without giving away the company secrets.

I totally agree with you on this Loops, I am actually very disappointed in his rather general answers.  I do understand that he does not want to give away his secrets. If I look at my own research I would be very hesitate to give away details, but on the other hand would be able to at least explain things without divulging to much information. I am actually still very intrigued by the blades themselves, and might actually make an effort to visit them next time I am in the US. We will see., hopefully their marketing strategy changes and they realize that if they want to claim they are the only ones to use science behind their blades, they need to back it up.