skaternum
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Posted: 10-01-2006, 07:20 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. There are some biological issues that it's pointless to fight. As we age, all things being equal, we lose muscle mass. Many adults lose flexibility too. And let's don't even talk about what menopause does to you! When you toss in environmental factors, such as sedentary jobs and other demands for our time, most adults will never be the <fill in the blank athlete> they were 30 years ago. There's no shame in admitting that.
Which isn't to say that we can't try to compensate for this. We old ones can do everything in our power to stay strong and flexible, like lifting weights and cross training. We can approach our skating "smarter," as some like to say and focus better. Hooray for us!
I don't want a coach who treats me like a grown up brain in a kid's body. I want a coach who challenges me, but who understands that my body has changed. I want a coach who has realistic expectations for me and who will push me as far as we think I can go. I think I'm a good adult skater. Heck, I think I'm a good skater, but I'm 41 years old, fercryingoutloud. I'm not so delusional as to think I have the body or physical capability of an 18 year old. I'm not the least bit disturbed by this.
But I see absolutely nothing wrong with acknowledging that, for most of us, our bodies ain't what they used to be.
Skate@Delaware
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Posted: 10-01-2006, 07:31 PM
Well said, skaternum! It helps to have a really good relationship and level of understanding with your coach. I am on my second coach and she is a gem! She knows about my past auto accidents and the limitations/problems I have because of them. That doesn't give me a "free ride" ticket to goof off and be a slacker, nor would I want to be. She works me hard, but always with the understanding that I will let her know if we need to back down a bit.
Yeah, i hit the weights and do cardio, and stretch almost every night. I have to. I try to watch what I eat also. I can't eat like a 10-year-old (and don't think I'd want to).
It's a struggle sometimes to get on the ice and do stuff, but I listen to my body and know when I'm getting tired, it's time to get off. In that respect, I feel smarter than the kids.
Award
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Posted: 10-01-2006, 08:09 PM
I really reckon that when I get to 40+, I'll be equally as powerful as an 18 year old kid.
d b n y
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Posted: 10-01-2006, 08:12 PM
I'll second that "well said, Skaternum!"
emma, I worked much harder as a kid than I do as an adult, sorry to say. I started roller when I was 12 and skated till I was 18. I was totally obsessed with it to the point that I didn't have much social life. It was all skating and school. I vividly remember my first coach, who took me through silver, telling me what a good worker I was. I didn't realize till many years later that the subtext was that I had little talent. I'm probably just a tad above average in coordination and balance, but the balance is getting worse with age. I've never been very flexible and have great turn-in and no turn-out. OTOH, I was the kind of kid, unusual I think, who needed everything explained in great technical detail, and I also became a dance judge, so today I grasp what's going on right away. I'm never confused about edges, feet, arms, shoulders, direction, rotation, axes, etc. I know the terminology backwards and forwards. Ironically, now I learn much better by imitation, and watching elite skating always improves my feel for the ice. I often wish I had started ice when I gave up roller, or even in my 40's, when I still felt immortal
Rusty Blades
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Posted: 10-01-2006, 08:19 PM
In all fairness to my coach, we had been talking about some of the high-level competitors and their triple jumps and I had been lamenting how SLOW my progress has been. Her comment was an "expectations check" and perfectly in order.
At 57, I do not expect to do any "big jumps". I am a whole lot older, heavier, and have a different "centre of balance" than I did as a skinny 18 year old That's life. There is, however, nothing to stop me from doing what I do do well and that was exactly the jist of the conversation and lesson.
doubletoe
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Posted: 10-01-2006, 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by techskater
I know I am a "younger" adult (only in my 30's who returned in her late 20's), but I will say that I am definitely a BETTER skater now than when I was 15. I work harder, I understand what I am trying to do, I am more focused, I don't fling and pray anymore, and I actually have some consistent doubles that I never had. I've also passed my Intermediate moves as an adult and I am considering going back to pass that dang 2nd figure that tripped me up as a kid since I understand what was wrong with it then.
I will admit though, that I have some hesitation on some elements that I didn't have when I was younger (darn spirals!), and I don't go flying headlong into new elements at top speed because I fear injury doing it that way. I think this is what Dianne's coach was getting at - that hesitation you get from the rational part of your brain!!
I couldn't have said it better. Also, you may not be the SAME skater you were as a child, but you could be a BETTER skater in some ways. We adults are more patient and more analytical, so we are less likely to waste our jump attempts flinging ourselves into the air hoping to land a double through sheer force.
Chico
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Posted: 10-01-2006, 11:23 PM
Well...maybe most adults don't try to land doubles with force but damn I have been a fool and tried. I am getting smarter and trying to do the technique thing the way I should now. =-) I'm learning that guts will only get you so far and I have a coach that teaches the one and understands the pros of the other in me. I think I have a child skater spirit in my adult body. Yep, I'm another one who hates being limited because I'm an adult. I'm an individual and not just an adult. See me for who I am as a person. Sometimes I feel that I've hit a wall for a week or two as an "adult" and then found that it was just a lull before I made some new progress. A coach should encourage your dreams, they might just be in for a surprise. Besides if you dream you will get further than if your realistic. If I would have believed that I only could do certain skills and obtain certain levels in skating as an adult I would have peaked long ago. I believe in myself and I believe I can learn and achieve much if I work at it.
You can do it too.
Chico
SkatingOnClouds
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Posted: 10-02-2006, 04:05 AM
Yeah, I hear you Skaternum.
My coach has never made me feel I am wasting her limited time, or made me feel that I can't achieve. Our struggle is overcoming my desperation to get back to where I was right now, when there is much in my basics that holds me back. I just have a sense of limited time, and want to achieve all I can before the inevitable happens.
I guess I just didn't like to hear that a coach had said out loud what I never want to have to admit; that it ain't going to happen.
By the way, speaking of dreams Chico, last night I dreamed I did an axel. Not one of those slow motion everything beautiful sort of dream axels, but a real rough and ready yet landed on one foot sort of jobs that would be how it would be if I did do it for real.
Casey
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Posted: 10-02-2006, 05:01 AM
Anybody can do anything...it's just a matter of willingness to learn, courage to overcome fear, playfulness to act like a kid sometimes (which will teach quite a lot that you'll never learn in any lesson), and a coach that's not willing to treat you any differently than anyone younger.
I've been helping an older friend learn to ice skate recently... I challenge him to do things and argue back when he doesn't want to, and try 20 different ways of explaining the same thing until we find something that works. In one day we went from "T-stops are impossible!" to doing them pretty well, and now he's doing them as well as anyone though he'd never done them before in his life. Today was day 2 on one-foot spins from back crossovers, and now he's no longer dragging the to-be-free-leg after the step onto the forward edge, getting around sometimes 4 times or so, and even got the push into a backspin hammered out. We worked on edge exercises and got them deeper and more confident. He can already do the outside edge exercises where you step from one onto the other and every 3rd one, hold the edge for a complete circle. We've done back edges, all the 3 turns, and a few brackets...all things dubbed "unachievable" at first.
He's learning really fast, and I'm not even a coach - I just keep trying different methods and advice until we find something that helps, and don't stop there. I love when something finally clicks and an immediate result can be seen. We also spend time doing things purposefully wrong or varied just to illustrate the difference in feel, and sometimes just act like kids which I think for me helped a lot with building confidence initially. But it's really all him just realizing his potential and getting out there and doing it.
This is a man who I don't doubt will have an axel and doubles within a few years and will end up competing well. By the end of this year I expect his spins to be getting solid, jumps to be up to the loop or flip, and overall moves and posture to be radically bettered. Meanwhile I see people in their 20's in lessons twice a week who look exactly the same as they did 6 months ago (and then there's me, who's gotten worse due to lack of practice and motivation...sigh). The difference is that though they are trying, they don't really believe in themselves at their age, and subconciously it holds them back.
One thing I've learned the hard way - if you set yourself up for failure you WILL fail. If you tell yourself you're fat and can't lose weight, you won't. If you tell yourself you're too old to make as fast as progress as a 10 year old, you won't. If you tell yourself your financial situation is hopeless and you're never going to escape living paycheck to paycheck...you won't. Not only do you have to really believe in yourself, but you have to believe so much that the constant doubts you hear because of your age or current status or whatever from people that don't matter don't make any difference.
Change is possible ANYWHERE that you want, and as long as you believe it, it can and will happen. For a coach, which should be someone you trust very much, to tell you anything unsupportive as mentioned above, is like your best friend coming to you and saying, "you know, you really are fat and ugly". Even if you're not and prior to that you never doubted yourself, that is really damaging and will eat at you.
My opinion is that you should not tolerate such negativity from anyone, especially your coach. Go find one that will believe in you. Nobody else is worth it no matter what their qualifications. And don't forget to believe in yourself unconditionally too, or all is for naught.
Best wishes,
Rusty Blades
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Posted: 10-02-2006, 06:10 AM
My coach is also my best friend and we understand each other and we work well together. What appears (to an outsider) as "negativity" is her attempt to moderate my drive. I set high standards for myself, push myself really hard, and set high goals - I guess you could say I am a pretty intense "Type A" personality. My coach simply hasn't encountered anyone like me before (intensely DRIVEN!) and she is afraid I am setting myself up for failure and disappointment so she tries to keep my expectations realistic. We have only been working together since February and she is still learning that when I set my mind to something, it is GOING to happen! As a team, we are well balanced.
There's more I'd like to say but I am really starting to feel defensive about my coach/best friend so I had better shut up.
Mrs Redboots
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Posted: 10-02-2006, 06:42 AM
I'll never be a good skater. On the other hand, I do think I can be a better skater than I am at the moment; I know I can use my edges better, I know I can probably improve my partnering skills (well, it does take two, but I think Husband is beginning to realise!).
And the next time my coach tells me that I am "not a natural athlete", which has been being said to me since I was about four years old, I think I'll smile very sweetly at him and say "Well, isn't that something I'm paying you to correct?"
kateskate
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Posted: 10-02-2006, 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Redboots
I'll never be a good skater. On the other hand, I do think I can be a better skater than I am at the moment; I know I can use my edges better, I know I can probably improve my partnering skills (well, it does take two, but I think Husband is beginning to realise!).
And the next time my coach tells me that I am "not a natural athlete", which has been being said to me since I was about four years old, I think I'll smile very sweetly at him and say "Well, isn't that something I'm paying you to correct?"
Totally agree. You can always be better.
Free skating teacher says I'm not a natural skater to me all the time but does acknowledge that I work hard and can get results. And she doesn't let my age be an excuse. She treats me the same as she does her 12 yr old skater. We do the same tests at the same time usually - we are both doing bronze field moves next month - and although 12 yr old is way better than me its good to know I am not far off.
Dance teacher doesn't really think anyone is a natural skater and that anyone can do anything with hard work. He did say to me the other day though he wanted to keep practising so that he can still do all the stuff he used to and before he reaches the point of no return - although at 27 I think he is way off that point. He doesn't let me use the 'I'm not a natural skater' or 'I struggle with coordinating arms and feet at the same time' as an excuse ever - as you say - that is what the coach is there to correct.
Its easy for a coach to say you are too old and just give up trying to improve you- its harder for them to try and improve you - just because it usually takes that little bit longer - and needs more explanation. Just my opinion…..
AW1
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Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d b n y
This is the nature of life. As we get older, we lose some flexibility, we heal more slowly, we injure more easily, our reflexes slow down, and we have greater perspective. If you are not yet 50, you may not have the perspective and the experience to understand what it all means in terms of athletic endeavor.
I have to say it... you obvioiusly haven't seen this when you say you lose flexibility with age...
phoenix
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Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:31 AM
This is a very interesting discussion. Kateskate, from watching your videos & knowing how long you've been skating, there's definitely at least *some* natural skater in you!!! Although I totally believe & understand the hard work you've put in to do what you're doing.
I think about this a lot myself because of what my goals are vs. what my age is. I just turned 38+1 (can't actually say it yet). My goal is to get my gold dances, standard track, and also my senior free dance. And my feeling is I have to do it NOW because I don't know how long my body will hold up. I have definitely felt in the last couple of years how I can't just go out & skate anymore without a good warmup. I've definitely made progress, but it's slowed (I think mostly due to the level I've gotten to), and I feel like I'm in this race against time, but the only thing I can do is keep working hard--some things just don't come overnight no matter how hard you work (think being comfortable w/ fast bracket/3/brackets, yikes).....and whether it's because I'm an adult, or really pushing the upper edges of my ability, it has definitely slowed. I worry sometimes that time will win out!
I also have a student who's in her 70's (she refuses to tell me her actual age ), who started skating in her 60's. And has largely no natural feel for it. But she practices hard and she has made good progress over the few years I've been teaching her. Now---for HER, good progress means she can do very nice fwd crossovers, with no toe pushes. She can do stroking with good technique, forward & backward. She can do forward edge rolls. She can do back crossovers with some flow. We're just starting to work on mohawks. She has the most positive attitude of anyone I've met, but she will certainly never be a fast skater who has lots of tricks. But she loves her skating and I'm so proud of her. I wish all my students were like her!
Skate@Delaware
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Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:34 AM
Casey you are right. I see and hear from the other adults in my rink, "I can't do xxx" and they prove themselves right. We have one woman who has been in LTS for 4 years and is still working on stroking and 3-turns and has not progressed above them. Mainly it is fear and lack of confidence holding them back. You do reach a point where you have to "go for it" but that does not mean going-for-broke! It's just a step of confidence to take it away from the wall, or jump off that toepick, and finally believe in yourself. We can be our own worst enemies as far as limitations go. I try not to be negative anymore and I've stopped saying "I'll never get this" so instead I say "I'm frustrated" or "this is hard." And it helps to have a coach (and friends) that inspire confidence in you and can think out of the box as far as teaching technique (mine is good at that, when one thing doesn't work, she tries something else).
ETA: I was going through a period when I had "do-it-now-itis" because I was feeling my skating biological clock ticking away....I was afraid if I didn't hurry and test boom-boom-boom and do this, that, or the other thing, time would pass me by and I'd never get the chance again (I have health problems and sometimes I freak out because they can change your whole perspective on life in general). I've calmed down a bit from this. I'm still driven but I've become focused and driven to do certain things in a more timely manner. I will get done what I can get done and I don't think anyone can fault me for not having done any less.