skatingforums
On the Ice => Off-Ice Training for Skaters => Topic started by: Skittl1321 on July 21, 2011, 08:36:47 AM
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My coach had me start off ice jumps yesterday in preperation for flip (though I'm doing all the jumps off ice, plus just stand in place 2 foot half and single jumps, some to landing position). I've noticed 2 things. 1- I rotate from the shoulders. Any tips to move the rotation to the hips? Should I just tie my arms behind my back so I can't "wind up"? 2- I bend over when I land. Is that just all core strength? Or is there something else that may be causing me to break?
I have no "jump" instinct in me. When I was a dancer, my thing was turns (spins) not jumps. As a skater, my thing doesn't seem to be spins, but it's really not jumps. Even off ice I have about a 1/4 cheat on landing a full single rotation. This does not bode well...
Mod edit: updated title
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Haha at first I read the title of this thread "Office Ice Jumps" and I thought it related to jumping at work...I used to do mine by the copier lol!
Try keeping your arms tight, bring them against your body and let your legs do all the work.
Start by jumping in place with no rotation, feet side by side. Then do 1/4 rotation, again letting your feet do all the work (arms tight & tucked, feet side-by-side). Do each direction. When you have that, go for 1/2 rotation, then 3/4, and finally a full rotation. At this point, don't worry about crossing your legs-your focus is height & rotation using your legs.
After you have achieved this, and give it time (several days per week for one week should do it), advance to arms in jump position and pulling in, again feet are not crossed but side by side. And once this is achieved, the final bit is crossing the legs in addition to using your arms.
These are standing static jumps-no entry steps are needed. For loop/flip-feet will be lined up as for those jumps (one in front of the other, weight more on one than the other). Again, it's a progressive exercise where you build from the simplest to the most difficult. If you don't get the beginning part, the harder part will be more difficult.
Try this and see how it works for you.
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LOL! Clearly I was distracted when I did the title....that's what I get for sneaking a post during work.
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One way to stop prerotation with shoulders is to keep your arm in front of you, folded on top of each other (kind of a half lotus pose for the arms:-). It is not easy, but builds body awareness. Also, when you jump, try to think about bringing your arms not around, but more narrow, along the side of your body. If you are CCW skater, then your left arm should not be doing much at all, just bending at the elbow during jump takeoffs. The right arm should pass close to the body to meet with the left arm.
I would also practice landing positions off ice in the mirror.
Mod edit: corrected typo
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There is a direct relationship between abdominal/core strength and shoulder pre-rotation. If the abdominals are not working to keep your torso straight and square, the upper body will pre-rotate. There are several sport cord exercises that work wonders to help this.
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There is a direct relationship between abdominal/core strength and shoulder pre-rotation. If the abdominals are not working to keep your torso straight and square, the upper body will pre-rotate. There are several sport cord exercises that work wonders to help this.
I never made that connection between core and shoulder control - I thought it was just a body awareness issue. I do tell students to tighten their core muscles on takeoff, but I could totally see that being an issue. Most of my students ARE lacking in core strength and it shows elsewhere in a variety of ways. Good pointer, thanks!
If you care to elaborate on the exercises, we're all ears, well, eyes.
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There is a direct relationship between abdominal/core strength and shoulder pre-rotation. If the abdominals are not working to keep your torso straight and square, the upper body will pre-rotate. There are several sport cord exercises that work wonders to help this.
Well, seeing as I have no abdominal muscles (it has to be a birth defect and not a result of a lifetime of lazy...) that would explain it :)
My coach has me do on ice jumps with "genie arms" (crossed holding elbows) so it sounds like I should be doing them off ice that way too, so as to not rotate with the shoulders.
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Try holding a beach or small exercise ball over your right hip (ccw). Or, just make a "hoop" (Audrey Weisiger's term) with your arms in a closed circle. Focus on keeping your shoulders checked to the right (ccw).
NB: Left hip for CW.
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Right hip for CCW?
(I skate CW, so I just want to make sure to reverse it, sometimes people remember I skate that way and give me "correct" isntructions.)
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Sorry - I forgot. Yes, right hip for CCW, left hip for CW. Basically, check to your landing side.
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Thanks for clarifying. I just assume everything is for CCW, but since I'm going to try it, wanted to make sure.
(My coach will often set exercises around a hockey circle then say "got it" and I'll tell him "yep, but I'm gonna go this way" and point in the other direction. He's getting better at remembering to go CW, but I think I'm his first CW student.)
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Well, seeing as I have no abdominal muscles (it has to be a birth defect and not a result of a lifetime of lazy...) that would explain it :)
Core strength comes from the entire torso and not just the abs... abs help, but they're not the whole story :) I wouldn't lose hope there... there are all kinds of ways to build core strength.
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One of the best core exercises is plank position from yoga.
Try this fun experiment:
-stay in low plank for 1 min
-while in low plank, lift your left arm for 15 sec, place back
-then right arm for 15 sec, place back
-then left leg for 15 sec, place back
-then right leg for 15 sec, place back
-Here is when the fun starts: lift left arm and right leg for 15
-then right arm and left leg for 15
-finish off with low plank with all extremities back on the ground. The whole exercise is 3 min total. Do not lose plank position between switches. If you are an overachiever, you can tack on 30 sec of side plank on both sides.
Do this every day and you will have no core issues! Sure beats 8 minute abs ;-)
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Yes, the core is so much more than abdominals....
I don't have any demo videos of the sport cords exercises out. Basically you are standing and pulling the cord in different planes that simulate the force of rotation on the body. You use your core to stabilize your body with square hips and shoulders. I will try to get a demo out at some point, because these have the most carry over to skating vs. planks, etc. (which I also include in the DVDs.)
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Here is the low plank (dolphin pose in joga) with instructions:
http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/2463 (http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/2463)
once you can hold that for 30 seconds in good form, you can progress to the full plank, which is on fully straightened arms:
http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/470 (http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/470)
and don't forget the side planks...which are killer but very effective!
http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/783 (http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/783)
note: if you can't do the full side plank, start on elbows and bend your knees....progress from there.
For all of these, be sure you don't dip your hips!
Other great yoga exercises for the core: bird dog, supermans, boat pose. I'm sure there might be Pilates exercises as well, but I don't know them.
I found my jumps improving as my core improved...in the beginning I basically had no core strength at all! After my surgery, I had to rebuild it as well.
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I have a good plank position, but can only hold it for about 30 seconds. Side plank not so good...
I did Pilates religiously for 3 years, but the only thing I ever noticed it strengthening was my back. I wish I could get back to it, but I just can't afford it and skating together :( I do try exercises at home when I can, but it's not the same as having a good teacher there.
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Is it possible that the technique for executing turns in dance is different from what we need to do in skating? To initiate the rotation for jumps in skating you need to turn your landing hip in while keeping your landing side shoulder pulled back. So for you, that's your left hip turning in as you keep your left shoulder pulled back and your right arm in front of you, lined up with the middle of your chest. I believe it's the oblique muscles that control that counter-twisting motion between the torso and the hip. This is why loop jumps, loop-loop combinations and backspins are such great exercises for rotating properly on jumps.
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It is totally different. I'm fighting decades of muscle memory.