d b n y
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sceptique
d b n y -
the only problem with your (very sensible!) advice is that if most people followed it, the humankind would now be extinct. Well, I would definitely not be born, as my mom had serious doubts about having a second child... A while ago on another board people went on and on about whether children need their parents 24/7 (sort of "working vs stay-at-home mom" debate) and at the end the things got realy heated... so let's agree to disagree.
While it's certainly true that many, if not most, babies are conceived by women who may not want them at the time, why put yourself into the position of choosing something that will most likely choose you if you wait. I and many of my friends had our first child when the urge hit us like a ton of bricks. One day I was not thinking much about it, and the next, nature kicked in and I HAD to have a baby. So, all I'm saying is that when you get to the point that you really want a baby, nothing will stand in your way.
Sessy
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 12:45 PM
Rectification: what I meant was, mom didn't want to get pregnant. When she eventually decided not to get an abortion, obviously, she did want to have me. And she does say I'm the best thing that happen to her and stuff.
All I'm saying is, she wasn't sure about children just like the topicstarter is, but she found ways to keep doing the sport she loved and she's gotten really, really good at it. Just because you're not sure you want children MORE than you want skating doesn't mean you shouldn't get children. Children are a life-changing thing, of course you're not sure. You're comfortable with the life you've got right now. But obviously something's gnawing, else you wouldn't be thinking about children either.
saras
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Post Title: I agree and yet -
Posted: 05-21-2007, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d b n y
I had my kids first, but want to address your question from a different point of view. Babies/children/teenagers are incredibly difficult to raise. From the start you and your partner will be stressed out, tired, and frustrated. There is nothing quite like a two week old who will not stop crying unless you dance vigorously with her for an hour. Nothing can match the three year old who got just a little too much of that hard-to-dose asthma medication (doctor's mistake, not parents') and runs and jumps constantly for twenty-four hours. I could go on and on, but I think you get the gist (let's not even think about kids with special needs ). If you are trying to decide between skating and kids, then in reality, you have already made up your mind. No one should have kids unless they desperately, passionately want children beyond anything else they could possibly have.
The flip side is that it is SO important as parents to maintain a level of what keeps us sane as grownups. For me, that's skating. Having a hugely supportive network of other adults around to pitch in is crucial. While both my partner and I work, she works part-time (and me full-time), and as such, she does the lion's share of the kid stuff during the daytime. One of our kids does have special needs (CP), and requires a lot of management of therapy schedules etc. I would NOT be able to function without all of her help. Nor would I be able to function without skating. Nor would I give up the kids
It's all about balance - and to some degree, I feel that folks questioning how they'll balance life with kids *before* they have kids is a really good thing. It doesn't just happen.
I agree kids should be wanted - but there are all sorts of ways for kids to happen - and as long as the grownups are on board with arranging for their needs once the kids have arrived, that's what they need most. And part of what they need is healthy happy grownups - with patience and sanity and all that. I firmly believe that outlets like skating can help provide that.
BatikatII
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 12:52 PM
Think I'd have to agree with Sceptique here. I cant' think of many people I know (in fact hardly anyone) who were that desperate to have kids - except for the ones who for whatever reason can't and for some of them it was because they left it too late before trying.
I think most of us asked ourselves do we really want kids and had to consider what we would be giving up by having them, whether it's a much loved job, simply free time with the husband or any sort of important recreation or hobby. I think it's a very sensible question to ask of people here, as to what it did actually involve for them and for some they didn't have to give up much at all.
I wasn't skating when I had my kids but I did sail 470 Olympic class dinghies every weekend which I loved and the idea of not being able to do that was hard. I continued sailing until 5 months pregnant when it just got to be too much effort and then I started again within a few months. Would have been sooner except for the first one being an emergency ceaser. I was lucky in that my husband enjoyed having the kids on the beach and in fact ended up looking after everyone else's kids too, as he was so good at it. We would be out for approximately an hour each race and went out 3 times in an afternoon.
You might need to rearrange things slightly and it does depend on the personality of the child. I used to marvel at how Nicki T's kids would sit quite contentedly in the push chair by the rink doors and watch. Mine would never have done that.
Two of our coaches have had babies and they are often at the rink and they are never short of babysitters - all those teenage girls just can't wait to look after the babies!
Babies are pretty resilient though and can get used to anything as long as they know they are loved. And having some thing to do that you love and can make time for, can save your sanity when you do have kids
Sessy
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 12:56 PM
Also i think everybody's forgetting one important aspect: money.
Skating is expensive, and boy, are kids expensive. How much finances have you really got is worth taking into the equation.
BatikatII
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 01:08 PM
They don't have to be that expensive when they are small - of course if you want everything new and the latest designer babywear and feed them formula and a fancy nursery etc they cost a bomb. But the kids themselves don't care if they are wearing hand-me downs (not as babies anyway), sleep in a drawer, etc and breast-feeding costs nothing except maybe a little extra food but that's where all the weight you put on when pregnant goes!
It's the teenage years that really do get expensive - but hopefully earning power will have gone up as well by then!
I do believe it's important to retain a sense of your own identity and not be totally bound up with the kids and their needs - not healthy for them or the parents. But you do tend to find it's easier to give up things for the sake of your kids than you ever believed possible before you had them!!
Sessy
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 01:28 PM
Diapers are expensive, no matter if you wash them or throw them away. Every time I look at a package in the supermarket I'm like: not-getting-kids-not-getting-kids
Breast-feeding is better for kids. Keeps them from getting allergies and a number of other things you really don't want your kids to have according to research Of course, those researches were probably all done by men whose wife made them get up in the middle of the night to feed the child a bottle. j/k
BatikatII
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 01:51 PM
Aha - so the real equation then is how many skating lessons do you have to sacrifice to keep one child in nappies for about two years. Early potty training is a must!
Reminds me of how I tended to value everything in terms of skating lessons. I still do now but not so much.
Hmm - the new dress or 3 skating lessons? A week's holiday or gosh that's how many lessons I could be having!! ?
You do get a return on your investment though, as it's hard to beat the love of your children and the pride you feel through their accomplishments as well as your own. I have had so much joy from my own and feel I would have missed out on so much had I not had them.
It's not for everyone though and we'd certainly have been a lot richer financially if we had never had kids. Still for us they are one of the best investments ever!
sceptique
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatikatII
Hmm - the new dress or 3 skating lessons? A week's holiday or gosh that's how many lessons I could be having!! ?
Luckily, since I started coaching, the skating arithmetics got much simpler - "want a lesson - give one". With that, and free ice time, my skating is now paying for itself. And I can even claim back VAT on my new skates and deduct their cost from my taxable income!
I think Batikat and NickyT really got to the point here - it's not the reluctance to sacrifice life pleasures for the sake of kids, it's just wanting to understand the true extent of that sacrifice. I know exactly how much I'm willing to give up for my skating - I have pulled a plug on a 10-year-long professional career, with its London office, perks and prestige for a tiny rink in a tiny town. And even just thinking about giving up some skating for a while and putting on hold my skating dreams - to medal at British Adult, to go to Oberstdorf with a decent programme, to land a clean axel - is already a big step for me. I want children. And I want to skate. And I don't want to give up one for the other. So, I'm looking for "the third way".
NickiT
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sceptique
And even just thinking about giving up some skating for a while and putting on hold my skating dreams - to medal at British Adult, to go to Oberstdorf with a decent programme, to land a clean axel - is already a big step for me. I want children. And I want to skate. And I don't want to give up one for the other. So, I'm looking for "the third way".
Sadly there is no third way. Unless you adopt so avoid pregnancy and then employ a nanny to care for your children so you can skate! Like I say, I've been there - I really did want kids but I really didn't want to give up skating either. It was hard in the beginning but believe me, kids grow up so fast. Mine are 12 and nearly 10 now and I don't know where the years have gone.
They don't stay babies for long!
Nicki
cathrl
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sceptique
Luckily, since I started coaching, the skating arithmetics got much simpler - "want a lesson - give one". With that, and free ice time, my skating is now paying for itself. And I can even claim back VAT on my new skates and deduct their cost from my taxable income!
I think Batikat and NickyT really got to the point here - it's not the reluctance to sacrifice life pleasures for the sake of kids, it's just wanting to understand the true extent of that sacrifice. I know exactly how much I'm willing to give up for my skating - I have pulled a plug on a 10-year-long professional career, with its London office, perks and prestige for a tiny rink in a tiny town. And even just thinking about giving up some skating for a while and putting on hold my skating dreams - to medal at British Adult, to go to Oberstdorf with a decent programme, to land a clean axel - is already a big step for me. I want children. And I want to skate. And I don't want to give up one for the other. So, I'm looking for "the third way".
There is a third way - I think you can tell that just from the numbers of people posting here who both skate and have children.
But, and I think it would be irresponsible of those of us with kids not to tell you this, it isn't going to happen straight away. There will be a period after you have a child when you think you will never skate again. Hell, there will be a period when you think you'll never sleep again, or do anything apart from wash baby clothes and change nappies. It doesn't matter how carefully you have everything planned, it will all fall apart and you will feel like you made the wrong choice and all you want is to be child free again. And there's no way back.
It gets better. You get some time for yourself. And provided you've got available child care, you can certainly use that time for skating. I took up skating a few months after my second child was born, and it was the evening I had out of the house while my husband looked after the kids (which was a bigger issue than it sounds, because I was breastfeeding).
There is a sacrifice, and at the start it's total, no compromises, no "some". Your whole life goes on hold. You will be giving up all skating for a while, no question, even if that while is only a couple of weeks either side of the birth. If you end up having problems in pregnancy, or a C-section, it will be a lot longer than that. Only you can say how much of a disaster this would be for you. Because the one certainty about having kids is that you can no longer plan the way you can without them. If you've arranged a lesson the day before an important test while your child should be at daycare and they're throwing up every ten minutes - tough. Unless someone else can take over from you, you won't be going to the lesson. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. And babies know. You can pretty much guarantee that it happens at the most awkward time possible.
But the answer has to be - no, there is no third way which will allow you to both have children and be as fully committed to skating as you are now. You don't have to give up one for the other in the long run. But you will, occasionally, have to give up a particular skating experience because your child needs you right then, and sometimes it might be a big dream you're giving up, or, at least, postponing. You have to be prepared to accept things like "I can't do Oberstdorf this year because I haven't been getting enough sleep to practice properly, but I plan to do it next year, and I definitely will as soon as circumstances allow". But no way do you have to accept "I can't do Oberstdorf because I have kids".
Mrs Redboots
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 04:59 PM
But don't forget that Sceptique works in an ice rink, and that makes the rules different! Husband's coach was off the ice for a week with her first child, and three days for her second.... I was horrified to come into the ice on Friday to find her with a skater on the end of the harness, having given birth three days earlier. She swore she was only holding the harness while her husband went to get something, but even still....
Another mum had her baby in the middle of our Open competition ("Well, I had to do something to get out of helping, didn't I?") and has barely been back on the ice since.... but then, she didn't work at the rink!
And don't forget that for all it seems endless at the time, it goes by all too quickly. My baby is now a married woman! Mind you, I didn't start skating until she was about 14 or so.... but where did the time go? I just blinked, and she was grown and gone...
BatikatII
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 05:36 PM
A few other things to bear in mind.
One is how supportive your husband is/would be with the child care and your skating. If he would be happy to be the one left holding the baby, literally, while you skate in your competitions etc., maybe travelling with you to Oberstdorf or wherever, then you have a much better chance of being able to follow your skating dreams and have a happy family.
Two is how you think you would feel if something went wrong with the plan - health problems for the baby or yourself after the birth say, that meant you could not go back to skating. For most people that will never thankfully be some thing they have to deal with but babies are born with various disabilities all the time and it's worth thinking about how you would cope with that eventuality given how important your skating is to you.
Three is to think about what would cause you the most regret when you are old. The fact that you never medalled in skating or the fact that you never had a child. With luck you will be able to do both but if you had to choose....
four: realise that however passionate you feel about your skating now you may feel completely different about everything once you had a baby and the sacrifice may become insignificant. I dont think anyone can tell how they will feel towards their kids until they have them. I've known people who had great plans to be the earth mother types and loved kids but then suffered from post natal depression or just found that motherhood didn't fulfil them as much as they expected, while others who seemed the least maternal, career types, ended up being very happy stay at home mums.
Good luck with making your decision. And dont' forget even if you had a baby now and didnt' return to skating til the child was 3 you'd still be younger than I was when I started skating and I have medals from British adult champs!
Sessy
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 06:04 PM
My uncle's wife had to stay down for 7 months of her pregnancy. As in, lay flat on her back in the bed, and nothing else.
She could barely walk for like a month after the pregnancy let alone do any sport. That sort of things could happen too. But it's all been worth it apparently, cuz she did it a second time for their second child a few years later (she has a chronical problem with her uterus which is why she needed to stay put)
AW1
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Posted: 05-21-2007, 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d b n y
While it's certainly true that many, if not most, babies are conceived by women who may not want them at the time, why put yourself into the position of choosing something that will most likely choose you if you wait.
Or then you could be like me and fall pregnant ever so unexpectedly, and then try for 6 more years to have another only to find out you can't actually fall pregnant any more