Is this normal when you try a shorter blade

[Christy]

I managed to try a shorter (only 1/4") version of my blade yesterday. Both sets of blades had just been sharpened with the same ROH (7/16ths) but the longer ones seemed sharper. Initially it was difficult to turn / stop the longer blades (which is fairly normal) but the main differences I noticed were that the shorter blades seemed to stick more when I was trying to glide, which I think is expected, but they also slipped quite a bit to the side too. I know the shorter blades should turn easier so is this the reason they slip to the side?

[nicklaszlo]

Do they have the same profile, according to the manufacturer?  If so, they should feel the same, unless you are using the heel.

I guess the shorter blades were not sharpened as well.

[tstop4me]

Another factor to consider is the mounting of the blade. Unless you adjust the mounting of the blade carefully along the longitudinal axis of the boot (toe to heel), you will be skating on a different portion of the rocker when you change blade length.  You will then have to modify your strokes to compensate.

[icedancer]

I have not had this happen with a shorter blade.  I would guess that either your blade is not sharpened very well or has a different profile or is not mounted correctly (for you) -

Good luck with your blades!

[Christy]

I just checked and the profile should be the same. Not sure if it makes a difference but the longer one has been sharpened 2 or 3 times, the shorter one was sharpened once. They are mounted on very slightly different sized boots, but the boots are the same brand / style and the positioning of the blade on the sole looks the same.
I do wonder if it's just a bad sharpening

[icedancer]

So it's the same blade - let's say - Coronation Ace 10 1/4" and you put a pair of Coronation Ace 10" on another pair of boots?

I've always wondered what that would do if the rockers were just in a slightly different position also --

Does this make any sense?

I will be very curious to see how this works out for you.  Did you go with the shorter blade because that is what fit the new boots or were you just going to try a shorter blade to see how that would work for you?

[Doubletoe]

I would also suspect the sharpening, and possibly the mounting.  I've gone from a 9-1/2" blade to 9-1/4" blade and really felt no difference.

[AgnesNitt]

If the blades are mounted correctly, the rocker should be in the same place.

[icedancer]

If the blades are mounted correctly, the rocker should be in the same place.

Really? If you put a shorter blade on the same boot wouldn't the rocker be slightly more forward as well?  It's not like all of the length is in the tail of the blade...

[AgnesNitt]

Really? If you put a shorter blade on the same boot wouldn't the rocker be slightly more forward as well?  It's not like all of the length is in the tail of the blade...

If the blade is mounted correctly, your skate tech will position the rocker in the correct place and screw the blade in so the rocker is fixed there. That's why you can only have a blade that's 1/4" off your correct size.

[icedancer]

If the blade is mounted correctly, your skate tech will position the rocker in the correct place and screw the blade in so the rocker is fixed there. That's why you can only have a blade that's 1/4" off your correct size.

I see.

That is IF your skate tech actually does that.

[Christy]

Really? If you put a shorter blade on the same boot wouldn't the rocker be slightly more forward as well?  It's not like all of the length is in the tail of the blade...

but what happens if the boot is a size smaller, and the blade 1/4" shorter - should the rocker be in the same position on the boot?

[icedancer]

but what happens if the boot is a size smaller, and the blade 1/4" shorter - should the rocker be in the same position on the boot?

If the boot is smaller yes - otherwise I would think you would have to move the blade back a little to have it in the same position if it the boot could take 1/4 inch longer blade...

[Query]

It happened to me too.

In particular, the edge at the back end of the tail was dragging on the ice while I was trying to glide. I also couldn't roll through as much length of blade as before. Those things slowed me down A LOT. Apparently, length correlates strongly with speed and glide length.

As others have said, you can re-mount a blade farther back - but that would place the sweet spot (where the rocker curvature changes), and the toe pick farther back, too. You need to ask yourself whether it would feel comfortable to do so. Most of us are comfortable initiating those weight changes if the sweet spot is just ahead of the ball of our foot. Where we feel we want the toe pick varies a fair bit. (Most of us don't want to accidentally hit our toe picks, but we want it to be reasonably easy to reach them when we need to.) Those things all limit where we can mount our blades.

In principle you could slightly round off the corner at the back of your blade, so it doesn't drag as much. I've not tried that. It would probably make balance harder, jump landings harder, and, if you were taught to do back turns at the back of your blade (styles vary), make back 3-turns (etc.) harder.

I'm very sorry, but if you don't think that moving your blades back on your boots would work for you, the most effective fix might be to buy longer blades. 

[Christy]

I'm not sure it's possible to put a longer blade on the boots I tried as the one that's on there now is fitted right at the end points of the sole, but it would be nice as I do like the fit of the smaller boots but I'm fairly tall so do feel a bit less stable with the smaller boot / shorter blade.

[icedancer]

What blades is it? 

[Query]

I'm not sure it's possible to put a longer blade on the boots I tried as the one that's on there now is fitted right at the end points of the sole

The way I see it, the mounting plate can extend outside the sole and heel area, though you need something to firmly attach screws to.

[Christy]

So if I went with the shorter blade (and smaller boot, which does feel more comfortable) would it be worth trying a different ROH. I currently use 7/16ths, I tried 1/2 on the longer blade and absolutely hated it, plus the sharpening only lasted half as long......

[AgnesNitt]

So if I went with the shorter blade (and smaller boot, which does feel more comfortable) would it be worth trying a different ROH. I currently use 7/16ths, I tried 1/2 on the longer blade and absolutely hated it, plus the sharpening only lasted half as long......

I'm happy w/ my 1/2 ROH, but I have to touch it up every couple of hours w/ a Pro-Filer.

[tstop4me]

Remember, only a small portion of the blade along the rocker is in contact with the ice at any time.  So, all else being equal (and that's a critical qualifier), changing to a slightly shorter blade should not require a change in ROH.  If you are happy with a 7/16” ROH, stick with it; don’t intentionally introduce another variable at this time (you have too many uncontrolled variables as is).  Hypothetically, increasing the ROH would improve your glide, but cause additional side slipping.  So I wouldn’t mess with it for now.  Time to check your premises (as Sherlock Holmes would say).

(1) The old boot and the new boot are identical except for the size.  The new boot is smaller than the old boot.  (By the way, what are the actual sizes?)  Are they truly identical?  Sometimes manufacturers introduce minor changes without changing the model number.  A change in heel pitch or arch support, for example, could affect performance.  Check with the manufacturer and skate tech for any unannounced changes.  Have the skate tech check for any defects.

(2) The old blade and the new blade are identical except for length.  The new blade is shorter than the old blade by 1/4”.  (By the way, what are the actual lengths?)  Have the skate tech check for any defects, such as warping or misalignment.

(3) The old blade and the new blade were both recently sharpened with identical ROH of 7/16”.  But you mention that the longer blade “feels sharper”.  It’s hard to get consistent sharpenings, even with a decent skate tech.  I usually have to fine-tune myself.  Have your skate tech check.  By the way, my experience is that changing the ROH by a 1/16” has a significant effect on performance.  Detecting a 1/16” change in ROH, however, is difficult.  Visual inspection is totally useless.  I have a set of precision calibrated machinist’s radius gauges.  But even with them, detecting the small change across the narrow width of a figure skate blade is difficult.  Really fussy sharpeners use a special instrument outfitted with a dial indicator (expensive and not that common). 

(4) The old blade and the new blade are both properly mounted.  Have your skate tech check.

Good luck!  I hate it whenever I change boots or blades.  Always requires a lot of tweaking.

[tstop4me]

deleted (dup)

[TreSk8sAZ]

Having just gotten new boots and new blades, both of which were smaller than my previous, too-large set up, one thing you have to remember. If you are getting smaller boots, that means the old boots were too large. What that also means is you were not over the blade the same way you will be in smaller boots. Essentially, because my boots were a full size too big, I had to lean more forward than I realized to try and get over the rocker on everything because it was out ahead of the ball of my foot. I just didn't know it because it's what I had gotten used to.

In the smaller boots/blades, that actually fit, I'm having to relearn or refine my technique on quite a bit - even on things like crossovers - to correct posture and the part of the blade I'm using for things. I felt for a good two weeks I could not do ANYTHING. It may well be that when you tried the smaller blades in smaller boots, you were automatically skating as you normally would have in the boots that were too large, and your weight was not in the place you expected it to be. Not sure it's a blades being short thing, but maybe more of a boots were too big thing.

[icedancer]

Having just gotten new boots and new blades, both of which were smaller than my previous, too-large set up, one thing you have to remember. If you are getting smaller boots, that means the old boots were too large. What that also means is you were not over the blade the same way you will be in smaller boots. Essentially, because my boots were a full size too big, I had to lean more forward than I realized to try and get over the rocker on everything because it was out ahead of the ball of my foot. I just didn't know it because it's what I had gotten used to.

In the smaller boots/blades, that actually fit, I'm having to relearn or refine my technique on quite a bit - even on things like crossovers - to correct posture and the part of the blade I'm using for things. I felt for a good two weeks I could not do ANYTHING. It may well be that when you tried the smaller blades in smaller boots, you were automatically skating as you normally would have in the boots that were too large, and your weight was not in the place you expected it to be. Not sure it's a blades being short thing, but maybe more of a boots were too big thing.

This is such a good point - and why you have to go through an adjustment period any time you change into different boots/blades - besides the usual break-in for the boots, you sometimes just have to learn how to skate "in these boots" or "in these blades" - the sweet spot is going to be in a different place, the balance point different -

[Query]

It may well be that when you tried the smaller blades in smaller boots, you were automatically skating as you normally would have in the boots that were too large, and your weight was not in the place you expected it to be. Not sure it's a blades being short thing, but maybe more of a boots were too big thing.

So - you are suggesting that Christy could be letting her feet lean feet too far back (scraping the back corner of the blade) or too far forward (scraping the toe pick), and that if changes her foot usage, everything could be perfect?

If you are right, maybe I gave up too soon on my shorter blades...

[Christy]

This is such a good point - and why you have to go through an adjustment period any time you change into different boots/blades - besides the usual break-in for the boots, you sometimes just have to learn how to skate "in these boots" or "in these blades" - the sweet spot is going to be in a different place, the balance point different -

Interesting. I can understand how the sweet spot would affect things like jumps and spins which I wouldn't dare try with the smaller boots / shorter blades as they just didn't feel stable, but not sure how that would cause so much drag on the blade? I went down a 1/4" on blade length about 18 months ago and didn't experience any problems with the change at all, so I'm finding it strange that going down another 1/4" would cause so much drag.

I was thinking it would either be a case of not sharpened properly or a need to change the ROH because that does affect the glide. If I wanted to try a different ROH would I try 6/16ths for it to be an easier glide?