Too old for high level comps...too young for adult comps?

[cmaonice]

Hey. I was wondering.... what options/goals do you think are attainable for me? I just got back into skating at 21 after quitting at 15. I would really like to pursue competing. I miss the days of training and skating to programs. Figuratively speaking, I think I am on the younger side for adult competitions, therefore I kind of feel like I would have more of an advantage (from what ive seen; please correct me if my assumptions are wrong). I mean, you cant even have an axel in bronze or 2L, 2F, 2Lz in Gold. I lost majority of my jumps when I quit but I plan to get them all within a few months to a year after training and finding a coach suitable to my goals. Since I am out of school my goal is to skate 2-3 times a week with 5-8 hrs weekly if I can push it. After speaking with a few coaches + skating community, they all think it's possible to start doubles within two years or so. Which leaves me...

Considering how old majority of the high-level skaters are (not saying i would be a junior or senior elite) like Zagitova, Medvedeva, etc., how old they retire, etc.. (except the exception that Katelyn, Gabby, Mirai, Carolina, etc. are all around my age and still going).. Where does this put me within competing? What should I do? I tried watching a few of the Adult Championships on icenetwork and the youngest I saw was 26. Which is 5 years older than me! Not saying I could land triples, but imagine where I'd be within 5 years?


It's just confusing cause I feel like im stuck in the middle between each direction because *technically* i'm too old for one and too young for the other

[Clarice]

Adult skating in the US is defined as age 21 and over, so you're definitely not too young. At Adult Nationals, groups are divided into age classes, so you would be in Class I. There tend to be fewer skaters at the younger end of Class I because of school, starting careers, etc., but the age range is 21-35, so there are plenty of competitors. What level you would compete at depends on what tests you have passed, including the ones you passed as a kid. We have levels beyond the Gold level - Intermediate/Novice and Junior/Senior - so there are events where you would be allowed to do whatever advanced jumps you can do, provided you've passed the necessary tests to qualify. It's all in the Rule Book. You might start by checking out the Adult Skating page on the USFS web site: http://usfigureskating.org/story?id=83955

[cmaonice]

Yes I'm sorry. i know the age limit for Nationals Class I is 21-35, but like you said, what i meant was there isn't many on the younger end of the scale. Mainly the skaters I know of my age are still competing at qualifying competitions because they had been doing so for years, or have retired already from said competitions. I read through the USFS Adult Skating page, all sounded a little confusing but I will re-read again. I've been meaning to read the Rule Book, but seeing as they are just about to update it again I will wait till they post the 2018-2019 season on July 1st.

Realistically my inquisitiveness was based on the fact if intermediate-senior is possible. Not in anyway or form, do I think I would ever make it to Team USA or Olympics. And Adult competitions has already been on my radar and deeply considered. I'm just trying to figure out all these things before hand. Obviously, when I find a good one, I can discuss these unrealistic and realistic goals, but me being able to think logically on my own would prefer to do it beforehand then set a training schedule with a goal accordingly.

[FigureSpins]

Cmaonice thinks she's caught between the two groups.  The skaters she started out with before have moved up while she was on hiatus but she's not a late-starter on the Adult track and doesn't want to be accused of sandbagging. 

Clarice is pointing out that that the Adult competitions have events for Int/Novice and Jr/Sr skaters.  They're very competitive and, at adult nationals, are the most contested championship events.  Gold is also a tough event - forget the rulebook and test structure: look at the videos of skaters doing Gold freeskate.  Most have axels and doubles.

What levels have you tested?

[cmaonice]

Hi, thanks for the response. That makes more sense. And I did worked on MIF when younger. I never took any tests, it was not in my goals back then. Reading up on the Adult Skating page on USFS i know there’s a standard and adult track. I’ve been told Adult track is more forgiving but I may be able to master the freestyle skills quickly because I am still pretty young, so I could take the standard freeskate tests and then enter adult competitions according to the eligibility charts. Luckily the only thing that changed from when I was younger, in terms of skating, from the 6 years on an off i’ve been gone since quitting I’ve only changed in height and a few pounds  but not by much. I was 5’3 and 104 then and now i’m 5’6 ½. 110 pounds. No injuries, even when I was skating so i’m one of the lucky ones.

[FigureSpins]

Start by taking MIF tests -- ask your coach which track is better for you: the standard track or the adult track.  It hinges on your retained skills, your current speed and strength.

You can compete in local competitions as Adult No Test or even Adult Pre-Bronze (skating up) without any tests.

[amy1984]

You can compete in local competitions as Adult No Test or even Adult Pre-Bronze (skating up) without any tests.

I wouldn't suggest doing this.  You'd be putting yourself in a category with people who are just learning to skate and some would look at that as incredibly unfair.  (There's a few people in my general area who just don't test and as such, enter the bronze category year after year and believe you me, we do not find this fair.  Skate Canada has recently changed the rules though where you can self place so tests aren't necessary.  I'm not sure what they'd do though if someone was putting themselves in the wrong category...)

I'm in Canada though so perhaps the culture is different.  But sandbagging is a real thing.  And it's not looked on positively.  If you are working on doubles you should be able to test out of these categories easily and move into a category that better suits your skills.

Edit to clarify: I swear I read a version of her post where she said she was working on doubles, maybe on another forum, or maybe she has edited, I'm not sure.. but I just wanted to mention it because after re-reading that reference is gone.

[Isk8NYC]

I don't the OP is working on doubles; it's a hope of hers a few years down the road, but not a reality at this point.  She never tested Moves or Free Skate, so I would put her above the LTS USA Adult levels, but below the (competition) Well-balanced standard track.  At local competitions, the Adult No Test and Pre-Bronze are usually against the book.  (Meaning, no competitors.)  It's a way to get started at competitions.  I thought of recommending Showcase, but she wants to jump and there's no technical score in Showcase - it's all character and/or artistry.

If she's serious, she'll just focus on testing for at least a year, to get as high as she can before working on programs.  Programs really drag down Moves testing progress.

[cmaonice]

Hi. Yes I am on another forum but no. I never said I had doubles. Working UP to doubles, yes. Although I’m in no rush to get there. Before I stopped skating I had all my singles and was inconsistently doing axels. I quit due to mental health reason, unrelated to skating, but more so school/social reasons. Time off has definitely sent my jumps on vacation but I plan on working with a coach as of next week for the summer. Some people say when they return to the ice, it took them days to a week to get all their jumps back, some say it took them months to a year. I got new blades + new boots as a 21st birthday gift from my dad last month and also a motivational push to start skating, as I had been inconsistently skating for a few months because my skates were from eons ago when i was 15. So I haven’t really been doing jumps that often as In trying to get used to the skate and blade change so really edge excercises have been my focus as of late.

So my goal as of now is to regain and perfect all singles including axel, end of next year mark see when i am regarding training and if i can start doubles, if so then do so, and compete. But really, my brain is wired weird so i never really think of short term rather in long term. So i’m hoping in when i’m 25 (4 years from now) I could be at least at nationals. I just didn’t really know in terms of competing where I am and possibly could be.

[amy1984]

I could swear she had mentioned it.  It's possible I misunderstood her reasoning for mentioning them as not allowed the first time I read.  My brain probably though she mentioned not being able to do those jumps as an issue because she wanted to do them in her program.

[amy1984]

Hi. Yes I am on another forum but no. I never said I had doubles. Working UP to doubles, yes. Although I’m in no rush to get there.

Sorry op, looking back I think I misread your mentioning of the gold category as wanting to skate in that category and not being able to do double jumps.

[cmaonice]

Sorry op, looking back I think I misread your mentioning of the gold category as wanting to skate in that category and not being able to do double jumps.

Hi! sorry I was unclear. I mentioned double jumps not being able to be used in a program because I do think it’s an attainable goal for me, due to numerous reason being age, time, resources, etc., which is why I said it would be unfair because let’s say figuratively speaking, i get double jumps within two or so years, I wouldn’t be able to use them in programs.

The adult comp levels are still slightly confusing to me but I am trying my best to understand it. I was told I could probably reach Gold within less than my 5 year goal but that Masters was probably unlikely. Again, i’m not very familiar with the Adult Level but this is equivalent to the Intermediate-Senior level?

[FigureSpins]

None of us can see you skate, which is why I recommended asking your coach to help you decide what testing track (standard or adult) you should pursue.  Skaters can test both tracks, either by taking all the standard and adult tests or by passing Adult Gold and then transitioning to the standard-track Intermediate test on the way to Senior.

At the US Adult Nationals, there are four "masters" events for Singles: Masters Intermediate/Novice, Masters Junior/Senior plus Championships Masters Intermediate/Novice, and Championship Masters Junior/Senior.  The "championship" events require a qualifying placement at Adult Sectionals, whereas the non-champ events are open.  I think there might a rule that says you have to switch to the championship if you won the prior year's open even.

Since the adult track transitions from Gold to standard Intermediate, that's what your coaches meant when they said you probably wouldn't reach the Masters withing 5 years - you'd have to pass the eight Adult tests (Moves+FS) and two additional tests (Int Moves+FS) to compete at Masters Int/Nov. 


Footnote: US Figure Skating uses the word "master" to mean several things and it's confusing as all get out.  Which is why they recently renamed the test-age categories to be standard, adult and "adult 50+."

[amy1984]

Hi! sorry I was unclear. I mentioned double jumps not being able to be used in a program because I do think it’s an attainable goal for me, due to numerous reason being age, time, resources, etc., which is why I said it would be unfair because let’s say figuratively speaking, i get double jumps within two or so years, I wouldn’t be able to use them in programs.

The adult comp levels are still slightly confusing to me but I am trying my best to understand it. I was told I could probably reach Gold within less than my 5 year goal but that Masters was probably unlikely. Again, i’m not very familiar with the Adult Level but this is equivalent to the Intermediate-Senior level?

You would be able to use them.  As you move up there are other levels available to you that use those jumps.  If you are landing doubles then masters would be fine for you.  You wouldn't have a host of doubles and be unsuitable for that category.  It is a high level event but if you were doing double jumps, you would be a high level skater.  Are you going to win that category against others who were competitive as kids?  Maybe not.  But, hypothetically, with all your doubles, that's where you'd skate.

Honestly, don't put the horse before the cart though.  You're worrying about skills you may or may not develop.  Just skate and have fun.  Put yourself in the appropriate category for the skills you have now.  If you improve, there are categories to fit pretty much all levels.

[cmaonice]

You would be able to use them.  As you move up there are other levels available to you that use those jumps.  If you are landing doubles then masters would be fine for you.  You wouldn't have a host of doubles and be unsuitable for that category.  It is a high level event but if you were doing double jumps, you would be a high level skater.  Are you going to win that category against others who were competitive as kids? Maybe not. But, hypothetically, with all your doubles, that's where you'd skate.

Honestly, don't put the horse before the cart though.  You're worrying about skills you may or may not develop.  Just skate and have fun.  Put yourself in the appropriate category for the skills you have now.  If you improve, there are categories to fit pretty much all levels.

I agree! Mainly I'm just focused on relearning everything and perfecting. But I feel like when choosing the right coach, it benefits to already have a general level-headed overview of what your goals are, that way you can narrow down a better fit. It's easy to find a instructor to teach basic skills, jumps and spins. They're everywhere. I'm just hoping I can find one that can cover all bases, including competitions. I'm contemplating between three different coaches that I think are suitable but I think the reason I'm finding it difficult to select one, is due to the fact I didn't really know what all my available options were, competing wise.

[Doubletoe]

Cmaonice - What was the highest USFSA test you passed before quitting at 15?

[FigureSpins]

The OP never tested.

I never took any tests, it was not in my goals back then.

[Doubletoe]

Ah, thanks, FigureSpins!

[alejeather]

There are plenty of skaters who go to Adult Nationals whose journey looks like yours. Skated as teens, got up to about axel, quit and came back as adults. Depending on where they are in their journey of coming back, and the tests they passed as kids, they compete in all different levels, though I'd guess most who fit the description I gave range from Silver to Masters Intermediate/Novice.

Competing is a completely reasonable goal for someone in your shoes. There are so many levels of competition, and you can move up from year to year. If you want to compete, you can compete, but given your goals and previous skating experience, my recommendation would be that you work on testing. That way, when the opportunity comes to compete, you can enter at a level which likely makes sense for you.

Good luck! Adult skating is fun!

[Doubletoe]

If you want to compete, you can compete, but given your goals and previous skating experience, my recommendation would be that you work on testing. That way, when the opportunity comes to compete, you can enter at a level which likely makes sense for you.

Agreed.  Since you are young and skated up to the age of 15, I'd recommend focusing on passing your moves-in-the-field and freeskate tests up to at least Adult Silver before competing.  At Adult Silver, you are allowed to do an axel, but most skaters don't have one yet.  If you test through Adult Gold before competing, you will be allowed to have axels, double salchows and/or double toeloops in your program, but there is still no requirement to do an axel or any double in competition if you don't want to.

[cmaonice]

Agreed.  Since you are young and skated up to the age of 15, I'd recommend focusing on passing your moves-in-the-field and freeskate tests up to at least Adult Silver before competing.  At Adult Silver, you are allowed to do an axel, but most skaters don't have one yet.  If you test through Adult Gold before competing, you will be allowed to have axels, double salchows and/or double toeloops in your program, but there is still no requirement to do an axel or any double in competition if you don't want to.

Okay! thats really good advice. i will work on testing moves. Just a related question. I wanted to going a club at the rink i normally skate at, but i got into a UC which is nearly two hours away from where i live now. The good thing is that there is a rink near the school, and a club as well. i am still waiting on the other UC i want to go to, which will still allow me to skate here. Unless I get into the school closer to home, I just have the summer to skate here. Should I not bother with the membership until I figure out which school to go to? Do they let you switch clubs? Does testing progress only confine to one club?

[Clarice]

Yes, it is possible to switch clubs. It's a simple on-line procedure between membership chairs, and is to ensure that all your financial obligations to the old club have been met before you are released to the new one.

You can belong to one club and train elsewhere. You would want to check out what the policies are where you plan to train, though, because some clubs charge more for out-of-club skaters to use their ice, and others don't allow it at all or have caps on how many times you can use it. Other places don't have "club ice", and your club affiliation won't matter. There is normally an out-of-club fee for testing, and that amount will vary from place to place. So it might be to your advantage to belong to the club where you plan to train. There is also such a thing as an associate membership, which allows you to represent one club while still enjoying privileges with another.

If you are in school, there is also a collegiate membership option; check with the club you are joining.

[FigureSpins]

Should I not bother with the membership until I figure out which school to go to? 

Unless I'm mistaken, you're in the US.  Will you be skating on either club's private ice, or just going to their home rinks for ice time?

Almost all rinks have open ice time (public or freestyle) that anyone can skate on without being a member of a skating club.  A few clubs require membership in order to skate on their rented ice, but most don't control the rink schedules and admission.  (SC of Boston is an exception - they own the rink so they call the shots. 

If possible, hold off on joining any club until (1) you actual start taking private lessons with a coach and (2) you know where you'll be living.

Do they let you switch clubs? 

Yep - it's an easy switch.  HOWEVER, if you join one club and try to switch mid-year to another, you'll probably have to pay for both clubs.  Better to wait.  (I speak from experience - I was a member of one club and I moved out of state after the season started.  The new club made me pay for a full membership and the old club wouldn't issue a refund or pro-rate the fee I had already paid.)

Does testing progress only confine to one club?

The Standard/Adult testing is done by clubs and registered on the official, nationwide, US Figure Skating site.  Once you pass a test, it's yours for life.  I know that wasn't your question, so read on...

Clubs sponsoring test sessions typically:
. Allow their members to register earlier for the session and receive preference if the session fills up quickly.
. Charge a lower test fee to their members, or offer a "rebate" at the end of the year to the members who have tested.
. Add on a "hospitality" or "out of club" fee to skaters who are not members of the hosting club.

A skater can only have one "home club" on the US Figure Skating system.  That is the club you join as a full member.  However, most clubs also offer associate memberships.  The associate membership is basically a "second choice" membership, that affords the skater some/all of the benefits as their full members.  Our club allows Associates to have "first dibs" at test and event registrations, waives the "out of club" hospitality fee for test sessions, and allows them to attend awards parties, exhibitions, and open skating events.  Basically, they're one of our own.  The only thing they don't receive is our skater support activity grants, but their home club should augment that anyway.

I've been a member of a few clubs that had "club ice" sessions.  They usually allow a skater to pay for 1-3 sessions so that they can try out the club and see if they fit in well.  You might find that one club's freestyle sessions are too crowded or the skaters are unfriendly.  If that's the case, don't join the club.


Given your current status, I would say hold off on joining any club until you're ready to test.  You can join at any time of the year, although June is a little tricky because the membership year ends 6/30.  Talk to the membership chair about that scenario.   

However, if either club offers an inexpensive (<$40) Learn to Skate USA membership, take that for now at the club of your choice.  It will put you on their email distribution so you can find out what's going on and when, and it adds you to the national database for LTS USA as well as US Figure Skating.  Plus, you get a cool welcome packet with an ID card, magazine and propaganda.  Some of my skaters have also receive skate drying towels and gloves plus trinkets like zipper pulls, chapstick and pencils.  This is separate from the "official" US Figure Skating+Club membership, so it won't affect your ability to join a club at test time.  Our club gives the skater a credit towards the full membership if they move up mid-year, so it's a no-lose situation.


Note about memberships:

LTS USA - basically, a cheap way to keep up with a club without spending a lot of money.  You can join at www.learntoskateusa.com for < $20, but if you join through a skating club, you pay a little more but get more out of it.  Just being ont he mailing list is a good thing.  Bonus: our LTS USA skaters can perform in our member exhibitions for free, whereas outsiders have to pay $20.

Introductory - this is a one-time, deeply discounted full membership.  You can only request it once; it's intended for skaters just getting started in testing/competing.

Collegiate - this is a discounted, four-year membership for students enrolled at a college or university.  It's the best buy for a full membership, but wait until you're ready to test because the 4-yr clock starts as soon as you register with the club.  You do have to prove that you are attending a college/university.

Junior/Parent - skaters under 18 have to join with a parent.  No discounts.

Senior - skaters over 18, no parent required. No discounts.  (Our club also has Senior Couple, which is for two adult skaters.  Less expensive than Family)

Family - if there are more than 2 skaters in a family, this is usually the least-expensive option.  No discounts.

Typically, full memberships also require a volunteer committment.

[cmaonice]

Thanks for the info! Yes this is a little tricky since I’m hoping to only be at either school for 2 years, if all goes according to plan. The only upside is that at School B (1 hr from home) I can live at home with my parents and commute to school on needed class days or live at campus and commute to rink. at School A (2 hours) It is simply just too far, including traffic, for me to commute. They have a skating rink there but it’s fairly new and although the rink has great reviews, there just simply enough about the coaches there. Which is what makes me nervous. School A is not an area I am well accustomed to, so while i’m there i’ll have no friends, so i plan to fill the loneliness with skating lol 

My only confusion was, should i just focus on lessons + regaining skills for the first year then join a club and test?
From the skating bios on this rink’s page., only one really says the specialize in MIF. Which is why i feel like i would be better off testing when i return and join my home rink’s club.

[FigureSpins]

That's what we've all said: start taking lessons, regain your skills and then worry about testing and membership.  In terms of testing, Moves are prerequisites for the Freeskate tests, so you should focus on them initially.  The skill set needed to perform the Moves patterns at/above passing standard will improve your freeskate skills and make it easier for you to pass those tests and go on to compete.  The local competitions are an option, at least up to the Pre-Bronze level, but working on programs will slow progress on the testing - it takes a lot of time during lessons and practices to perform a program.  One side bonus is that skaters can now receive "test credit" for good competition results, but unless you've already passed the prerequisite Moves test, that isn't an option.

I get the "long term goals are important" concept, but good project planning also includes prerequisites and mastering skills in the correct order to actually reach those goals.  You need to set objectives, like "skate x hours a week," "take x lessons/wk," and "pass () test."

As for the coaches bios, you need to do more research than just looking at the rink's page.  I know several rinks with out-of-date or incomplete coaches bios; many rinks don't even list the coaches.  You'll need to observe the coaches with students, ask them for their credentials/resume/cv and have some trial lessons to see if you match.  You don't necessarily need a Moves Specialist, at least for the first few tests.  Every coach at my rink works on Moves with their students, some are better at the higher-level moves (mainly because of experience) and some enjoy coaching Moves more than the rest.  Just because it's not listed on a rink website (which was probably created by a webmaster that doesn't even know what Moves are) doesn't mean the coach refuses to teach Moves.  They may have been asked to provide a paragraph and just didn't think to write it down.