skatingforums
On the Ice => The Pro Shop => Topic started by: Query on April 22, 2014, 09:29:38 PM
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Does anyone know what is going on with Klingbeil recently?
They have a new website http://www.klingbeilusa.com
Blue111Moon said
The master fitter for Klingbeil, Will Murillo has moved to Nashville to work with Bill Fauver on their new boot line, Avante. I believe at least one of the other Klingbile bootmakers went with him. I think that that will be my choice for my nexr boots, even if it means a trip to Nashville. A shame about Klingbiel. They were great boots ruined by poor customer service after Don left.
Is Don Klingbeil still helping the new management in any way, and in what ways?
Have any of you dealt with klingbeil since that happened? What were the results?
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Grantland.com had an article a while ago that provides some answers:
http://grantland.com/features/the-last-skate-atelier/
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From the article:
The Sky Rink at Chelsea Piers charges $27 for a 50-minute practice session,
Finally, a session that's more expensive than my rink's.
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I had understood that Don had stepped back for health reasons.
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Don Klingbeil and Will Murillo left Klingbeil.
The Klingbeil website is not working properly. You cannot make an appointment that way. I called several times and left messages. No one returned my call.
I finally got Riedell custom boots after 2 months of waiting and they don't fit.
John :)
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There customer service has gone down the drain to: https://www.facebook.com/Klingbeilskatingboots?ref=br_tf
check out the customer comments it doesn't look good for the future of klingbiel.
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The best fitters, sharpeners and boot makers are so much better than the norm, that people go way out of their way to go to them. Its easy to see how top level personnel changes could hurt such a business.
In addition, commercial property is supposed to be pretty expensive in NYC, so it must have been a tough market.
I'll tone down my boot web page in which I praised Klingbeil, because of the outstanding customer service Don Klingbeil gave to me and others.
I hope Don :psychic finds a way back to the skating customer service industry. He is so good at it.
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If Don Klingbeil hypothetically signed a non-compete clause when he sold the business, are there places he could move where he could, perhaps after a reasonable wait, re-enter the boot making or boot fitting business?
This is purely hypothetical. I don't know if he signed such an agreement - or what it said if he did.
I get that he might not be able to manage a competing company, or use a list of customers from the old company, but it wouldn't seem reasonable to say he can't make any kind of living as an employee in any related area of work. But perhaps a lawyer would say I am wrong.
I do know that software developers bound by such agreements (which a lot of employers make you sign) frequently move to states like California whose courts sometimes void such agreements, in order to make a living.
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I have heard that he opened a new boot company (in Tennessee?) with Bill Fauver. Haven't heard any reports of how those boots are and if they are comparable to the old Klings.
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I didn't think Don Klingbeil was involved with Avanta, but Wil Murillo, who was Klingbeil's master boot maker for years, is.
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I didn't think Don Klingbeil was involved with Avanta, but Wil Murillo, who was Klingbeil's master boot maker for years, is.
Oh okay - yeah, I think that is what I heard. I am curious to hear how those boots compare to the Klingbeils - I know there was a group of ice-dancers in Canada that were going to try them but have not heard any reports back yet. Has anyone heard anything?
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In terms of Query's question, a (hypothetical) non-compete agreement wouldn't keep Don out of the business forever.
California, as I understand it, doesn't enforce them, so he could go and live there immediately.
The law in most other states is that a non-compete agreement can be enforced but only to the extent its duration and geographical scope are reasonable.
In practice, there is usually (always?) a durational limit on non-compete agreements.
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Oh okay - yeah, I think that is what I heard. I am curious to hear how those boots compare to the Klingbeils - I know there was a group of ice-dancers in Canada that were going to try them but have not heard any reports back yet. Has anyone heard anything?
I've "liked" their page on Facebook, but they haven't posted anything since mid-July, when they posted a photo of some boots being made. I haven't heard anything else.
Actually, it looks like around that time, Bill Fauver was hired as the skating director at the Ford Ice Center, home of the new Scott Hamilton Skating Academy.
https://www.nashvillepost.com/category/compaines/avanta_skate_boots
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I know this is thread-hijacking but I found the Avanta site - pretty incomplete - they have a sign-in and registration - which I did but still got no more information:
https://www.avantaskating.com http://www.avantaskatingboots.com/
Hopefully this will be a good company!
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I hope this okay to share, from an E-mail from Bill:
"We are making both customs and stock boots now and just so you know all of our employees except for me came from Klingbeil and are the very best of what they had.
We make a very high quality boot from the very finest materials available and our design is a somewhat lighter boot with more refined lines and the best fit possible because we use the STS casting system for our custom boots. We are the only boot company that is skater owned and operated and as such we approach the boots from a skater's point of view."
To me this sounds very promising, and I look forward to giving them my business. Of course the company is pretty new and lacks reputation, but I have a good feeling about them and will probably buy my next set of boots from them. My first set of Klingbeils was awesome, but the newer replacement pair don't fit as well, and I really miss having brown soles that I could lovingly treat and polish with Sno-Seal entirely too frequently for any sane person. ;D
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I'm not sure Klingbeil's current management would want Don to email potential customers about Avanti, let alone having it published here on the web... Oh well.
I guess they mean this STS casting solution (http://stssox.com).
If they use the cast to make genuine custom lasts around which the boot is formed, that would be a wonderful step up from just taking a few measurements and/or making the boot heat-warp-able. (Companies say their boots are heat-moldable, but the material doesn't actually melt to shape, it just bends, which strongly limits the degree of conformation, and only applies to some parts of the boot.)
Incidentally, if we can believe Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#Exceptions_-_valid_non-compete_agreements_in_California), a non-compete clause would be valid even in California or Europe, because Don was top management, not just an employee. Perhaps he would have to move to China to start a business! :)
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I'm not sure Klingbeil's current management would want Don to email potential customers about Avanti, let alone having it published here on the web... Oh well.
That's not from Don, and I have no idea if Don is involved but from the comments above it doesn't sound like it. The E-mail is from Bill Fauver. I thought twice about sharing that bit but it seemed innocuous enough. I would definitely not share anything from Don without explicit consent.
I guess they mean this STS casting solution (http://stssox.com).
If they use the cast to make genuine custom lasts around which the boot is formed, that would be a wonderful step up from just taking a few measurements and/or making the boot heat-warp-able. (Companies say their boots are heat-moldable, but the material doesn't actually melt to shape, it just bends, which strongly limits the degree of conformation, and only applies to some parts of the boot.)
Yes, I believe so. It does look quite promising, doesn't it? I had nasty pain at my ankle bones breaking in the Klingbeils, though they were great skates maybe this would help avoid that as they can tell without a doubt exactly where they are and how much they stick out.
Incidentally, if we can believe Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#Exceptions_-_valid_non-compete_agreements_in_California), a non-compete clause would be valid even in California or Europe, because Don was top management, not just an employee. Perhaps he would have to move to China to start a business! :)
I imagine that Don got a nice amount from selling his business, and if I were in his shoes, I'd be disappointed with what's happened since, but hopefully content with the money in the bank. It's sad because I imagine he really wanted to remain involved and helping people have great boots, and I can't imagine that he thought Adoni would kick him out. Who knows, maybe we'll all be surprised and Adoni will turn Klingbeil back into a wonderful company at some point, but so far from a peanut gallery perspective it looks like they're getting the karma they deserved for that move.
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I just had a very nice phone conversation with Bill Fauver at Avanta. He told me they are producing and shipping boots now.
At this point Klingbeil has declared bankruptcy, and most of the former Klingbeil staff is at Avanta now, including Will Murillo. He said Don did sign a non-compete, but that once the bankruptcy proceedings are complete, it should become null and void. I guess time will tell! In any case the boots they are making are very akin to Klingbeils, but somewhat lighter and with a different stitching style (they also use a thicker thread) and heel profile.
There are some differences between the three custom models (Freestyle, Synchro, and Dance) they have besides the back height - the Synchro model has lunge pads (maybe that's not the right term - he used a different one but I don't remember what), and a different toebox. I didn't really pay much attention to that as my interest is just the Freestyles, you could call if interested in more details.
The boots are lighter than Klingbeils were, because they use layers of carbon fiber between leather layers for adding stiffness. This is the same material Edea uses but they use it in conjunction with leather so that you don't have the fragility issue that the Edeas do. Without being able to see it in person I feel iffy about it, and in general I prefer all-natural materials, so I asked if they could make a more traditional boot with leather only, and he said they could. They also use a little different profile on the heel/sole which reduces weight a bit too. They sounded flexible if you had custom requests, which isn't too surprising for custom boots, but unlike Harlick or SP Teri, they don't charge any extra for customizations. I think that I would prefer a pair without a logo on the heel and with
They are also producing stock boots, and have plans for some other boot options in the future. For instance, Bill has a patent on a boot design which reduces the impact shock of jump landings, while not reducing stiffness during take-off using air bladders in the boots (I was curious, so I looked up the patent - you can read it here: https://encrypted.google.com/patents/US7513068).
They are indeed making custom lasts based on the STS castings, and use it as a reference point during the construction process. Klingbeil made custom lasts before, but based on measurements and a foam foot bottom impression. If there is not a nearby Avanta dealer to you, they will pay for a podiatrist to take the castings.
They will be at Nationals in January, and can take STS castings there if you like, or if you would like to meet them in person. They also said people are welcome to visit their facility in Nashville, and that is probably what I will do as I would really like to see the process and materials and people in person. They can do Saturday appointments in addition to weekdays, and turnaround time for custom orders is 4-6 weeks. I think I'm pretty much decided on getting a pair, though probably not until January.
You can call the shop at 615-403-3758 for further information...
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At this point Klingbeil has declared bankruptcy
Oh, my! Perhaps that's what happens when a custom fit clothing store neglects fit and customer service, and moves to a very upscale neighborhood.
The odd thing is, the people who bought Klingbeil have a long history making shoes. They should have known what to do.
I that someone will finally use ultra-light marine/aerospace composites (like carbon fiber/resin) for full custom figure skates - like high end hockey and speed skates have done for decades.
Has Don said what he will do - e.g., join Avanti, restart the family business? If the "Klingbeil" trademarks goes on auction, someone could buy it...
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Moving from NYC to Nashville must be quite a change for the staff.
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Has Don said what he will do - e.g., join Avanti, restart the family business? If the "Klingbeil" trademarks goes on auction, someone could buy it...
Time will tell! ;)
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These Avanti boots sound super interesting. If they were close by or if they had a larger number of dealers and one was close by, I'd totally have checked them out. Not something I'd buy sight unseen though. If someone does get a pair, I hope they post on the forum! I'm curious.