Should DD switch from Well Balanced to Test Track?

[momosam]

Hi,  DD (13) tested up from Preliminary to Pre-Juv this fall. She just started working on a new freeskate and is having lots of anxiety about it.  She has been very inconsistent on her doubles in the past year and a half. She gets jumps and loses them very frequently. She has had dbl sal consistent on and off, has landed double toe, loop, and flip on occasion. Right now she has no doubles consistent. She hasn't landed a double jump in competition in almost a year. She does have a nice axel and axel combinations though.
           
She skates 5 days a week, just one hour at a time (before school), as she has other evening activities. Is this enough skating to learn and maintain these jumps? She has 4 private lessons a week for maybe 20mn. each time. 

The last two competitions she has not done a freeskate, only compulsory, spins, artistic etc. and places near the top for Pre-Juv in those events.
 
She has been very down on herself and thinks she is a terrible skater because she can't maintain these jumps. I would push for her to try Juvenile Test Track for a while or permanent, but one of her coaches really wants her to stay well balanced. Not sure what our next step should be.  Your opinions would be appreciated!!  Thanks!!

[Sk8tmum]

Well, the first question is - do you trust your coach? If you do, then, I would go with that. I would also ask the coach for his/her feedback on why the jumps are a struggle. Is it a training or attitude or whatever issue? And, if your daughter is discouraged, sounds like time for the coach to do some coaching on that front as well as on the skating front; coaches generally do want to know if there is an unhappiness factor with a skater.

 Otherwise:

Age 13 - sounds like puberty - are there height or dimension changes? if so, then perfectly normal to lose the jumps; also if the coach is improving the jumps, then, losing them is again normal before they are returned "better". Out of curiosity: have the spins also been inconsistent? These are also often affected by puberty.

Yes, you certainly can maintain those jumps on that amount of ice, particularly if she works hard and isn't also spending huge amounts of time on other disciplines (dance, MITF, etc).  She can also do off-ice to strengthen and train the jumps - coach should be able to direct you there.

Skaters gain and lose jumps regularly ... but, it's hard when it's happening to your kid to maintain that perspective.

[jjane45]

Clarice posted a very nice formula to calculate recommended ice time for competitive skaters in this thread:

http://skatingforums.com/index.php/topic,1104.0.html

Based on it your daughter may indeed benefit from more ice time if she is committed to improve the doubles.

I agree a conversation with coach might be helpful, or ask about adding lessons with a jump coach!

[jumpingbeansmom]

The doubles can be hard to maintain, and can be hard to land in competition....dd (10) skates juvenile and she has her moments when landing those doubles just won't happen.   I noticed two things about dd in competition- she gets nervous and stiffens up (we are working on that), she gets cold (and stiffens up)- I am not going to let that happen again.

Our club does this think called Exhibition Friday, where the kids where their competition dresses and do their programs in a competition like setting (5 minute warm up etc) in front of all the parents...I think it really helps.   Maybe you could find something like that for her to do?

[momosam]

Thanks all for the great advice! We don't have a jump coach at her club so that wouldn't be an option at this point. As far as puberty, she is growing some, but not too much at one time.  She is still under 5 feet.  Her spins are also not affected.

What I think some of the problem is with her doubles is that she picks up bad habits very easily (slight turn of the head, looking down during the jump, slight error on entry etc.), then has a really hard time correcting this.  She went through the same thing with her lutz and axel a few years ago.  Also, her coaches are not necessarily working with her on her doubles every lesson.  If she has a competition or MITF test coming up they will focus on those programs and moves and a week may go by that she is attempting doubles on her own with errors, thus they are that much harder to correct. Then she is falling a lot, loses confidence and starts popping them.

She also doesn't take an off ice class.  She does do a lot of stretching on her own and uses a yoga and pilates for figure skating dvd, but she doesn't do jumps off ice. Would it be really beneficial for her to do off ice jumps and if so, how often and how many repetitions of each should she be doing.  Her coaches don't seem to offer much guidance in that area.  Thanks!!

[isakswings]

The doubles can be hard to maintain, and can be hard to land in competition....dd (10) skates juvenile and she has her moments when landing those doubles just won't happen.   I noticed two things about dd in competition- she gets nervous and stiffens up (we are working on that), she gets cold (and stiffens up)- I am not going to let that happen again.

Our club does this think called Exhibition Friday, where the kids where their competition dresses and do their programs in a competition like setting (5 minute warm up etc) in front of all the parents...I think it really helps.   Maybe you could find something like that for her to do?

She sounds like my daughter! My daughter's axel has taken a vacation a few times since she first landed it. This last time she was really frustrated and then fear set in. We added in more axel lessons and her axel is more consistant then it has ever been before. Just a few weeks ago, she was jumping as if she had never landed an axel before. She was frustrated and scared of the jump. Anyway, she competed last weekend. In warm up and practice ice, she was landing her axel every time she jumped it! She skated a few clean programs in practice and then the day of competition, did not skate clean! Go figure. I think she does everything your daughter does. We need to work on that with her too. Thankfully, my daughter handles whatever the results are, very well. Still, I would love to see her skate a clean program in competition. LOL! I like your idea of a "mock" competition. Hmmm....

[isakswings]

Thanks all for the great advice! We don't have a jump coach at her club so that wouldn't be an option at this point.

Is there a jump coach at another rink you could see? We are taking my daughter to another rink to work with a jump coach every other week. OR if that is not possible, can her coaches fit her in for extra jump lessons? We've done this with dd's primary coach before and it was helpful.

What I think some of the problem is with her doubles is that she picks up bad habits very easily (slight turn of the head, looking down during the jump, slight error on entry etc.), then has a really hard time correcting this.  She went through the same thing with her lutz and axel a few years ago.  Also, her coaches are not necessarily working with her on her doubles every lesson.  If she has a competition or MITF test coming up they will focus on those programs and moves and a week may go by that she is attempting doubles on her own with errors, thus they are that much harder to correct. Then she is falling a lot, loses confidence and starts popping them.

BTDT with my daughter. She has done the same. Again, this is where adding in extra lessons focusing only on jumps might help. I honestly did not realize what a difference this makes until recently. Dd has lost her axel on and off ever since landing it a year ago. I know this is not uncommon, but it is still frustrating none the less. We added extra lessons in a couple of weeks ago and wonders of all wonders, axel was back by the end of the week. My wallet was crying at the end of the week, but dd was smiling. I'm not saying all of her jump problems are fixed but I definately see the value in having one lesson dedicated to a specific elements. Again, maybe primary coaches can make one lesson a week a jumps only lesson?

She also doesn't take an off ice class.  She does do a lot of stretching on her own and uses a yoga and pilates for figure skating dvd, but she doesn't do jumps off ice. Would it be really beneficial for her to do off ice jumps and if so, how often and how many repetitions of each should she be doing.  Her coaches don't seem to offer much guidance in that area.  Thanks!!

YES! Off-ice jumping DOES help. Do any of the other skaters at her rink take an off-ice class? If so, maybe she can join them? If not, ask her coaches for ideas. She can do them at home. My daughter will roll the dining room rug up and jump and spin in there. LOL!

Good luck!

[jumpingbeansmom]

She sounds like my daughter! My daughter's axel has taken a vacation a few times since she first landed it. This last time she was really frustrated and then fear set in. We added in more axel lessons and her axel is more consistant then it has ever been before. Just a few weeks ago, she was jumping as if she had never landed an axel before. She was frustrated and scared of the jump. Anyway, she competed last weekend. In warm up and practice ice, she was landing her axel every time she jumped it! She skated a few clean programs in practice and then the day of competition, did not skate clean! Go figure. I think she does everything your daughter does. We need to work on that with her too. Thankfully, my daughter handles whatever the results are, very well. Still, I would love to see her skate a clean program in competition. LOL! I like your idea of a "mock" competition. Hmmm....

He coaches and I also realized that if she doesn't feel confident about something in the program, it clouds the whole thing...so they have been working on building that for her...last year, she went from pre-pre to juv in a few months, so there was plenty to lose confidence over...hopefully this year will be better.

[isakswings]

He coaches and I also realized that if she doesn't feel confident about something in the program, it clouds the whole thing...so they have been working on building that for her...last year, she went from pre-pre to juv in a few months, so there was plenty to lose confidence over...hopefully this year will be better.

That is a HUGE jump! Good for her! I just reviewed the pics from the comp last week. My daughter landed her axel and then promptly tripped herself during check out. You can clearly see in the pictures she landed the jump! Strange! Anyway... I hope this season goes better for your daughter.

Edited to add: rumor has it she also landed 5 double sals today! She's landed it maybe once... and appearantly today she landed it a few times. Her friend was with her and says they weren't cheated. We'll see what her coach says when she sees her jump them. Maybe her jump coach can work on those with her too. YAY!

[jumpingbeansmom]

That is a HUGE jump! Good for her! I just reviewed the pics from the comp last week. My daughter landed her axel and then promptly tripped herself during check out. You can clearly see in the pictures she landed the jump! Strange! Anyway... I hope this season goes better for your daughter.

Edited to add: rumor has it she also landed 5 double sals today! She's landed it maybe once... and appearantly today she landed it a few times. Her friend was with her and says they weren't cheated. We'll see what her coach says when she sees her jump them. Maybe her jump coach can work on those with her too. YAY!

Good for her...and yes I think this year will be better.   Of course, right now she has a foot injury...ugh.

[isakswings]

Good for her...and yes I think this year will be better.   Of course, right now she has a foot injury...ugh.

Poor thing! I hope her foot feels better.

My daughter is excited for her jump lesson tomorrow. She is hoping he will work on 2 sals with her. Funny thing is, when she last saw him she wasn't landing her axel. Now it is consistant. LOL!

[momosam]

  I thought I would update this old post of mine since so much has changes since then!!

  My daughter did end up doing a few Juvenile TT competitions last summer because she still didn't have doubles.  Halfway through the summer she had had enough and was going to quit.  Instead she decided to give another coach at our rink that some of the other families were recommending a try.   It has made ALL the difference.  The new coach gave her more lesson time, worked on her mental mindset with her and got her to do several off-ice jump classes, strength training and ballet.

  My DD is a different skater than she was last year!! She passed her Intermediate Moves and is soon to take her Novice MIF test and her Juvenile Free Skate tests.  She has some of her doubles consistent and is in awesome physical condition. Since she has been with her new coach she has been able to do very well at well balanced Open Pre-Juvenile and even placed first in our state competition this past weekend!!

   So my advice would be, if your skater has reached a roadblock in skating they can't overcome, make a change somewhere!! And do lots and lots of off-ice.  It makes all the difference in the world!

[jjane45]

Congrats to both of you, wow what an improvement!

I should totally get more into off ice... Thanks for sharing your experience