skatingforums
On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: PinkLaces on April 03, 2014, 11:49:19 AM
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Just wondering if anybody has heard any rumors of changes to the adult programs, testing, competition elements, etc.
I would still love to see the Silver MITF test broken up into 2 tests. Any changes you would like to see?
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Your best bet is to go look at the gc book that just got released for rfa and the Facebook page
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Where can the GC book be found? I am on USFS Members Only and all the links still point to placeholders.
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My understanding is there was a delay and the meeting book will be published closer to April 11, 2014.
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Ok, there was a whole thread on the potential rfa's on one of the adult fb groups and I would be very concerned about posting any rumors until the book comes out as there were some seriously angry folks based on those rumors both those that heard it and from the asc.
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The Adult Committee doesn't appreciate online discussions of topics, even brainstorming or daydreaming. They like to keep their cards close to their vest, which I think is true of all USFSA committees, it's just that adults have access to online sites and are more free to speak their minds. Members of the committee will typically respond to online discussions, saying that all suggestions should be sent to a committee member directly. In the past, skatingforums' members have said that their efforts to reach out to the committee were accepted and either ignored or disregarded. That said, the Adult Committee has evolved with many new members, so maybe the climate has changed for the better. I don't know if that's true, but over the past few years, the Adult Committee effected changes in advance of GC with almost-immediate implementation timeframes. Perhaps that's what the USFSA wants: rather than use GC time to discuss and vote on Adult changes, they delegated the changes to the Committee itself.
Anyway, that's the beef on FB.
The only proposal I've seen rumored is that Group V, the highest age group would be combined with Group IV, one step down.
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Not "combined" rumor is restructuring to 4 age classes to spread the distribution
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The RFAs have been published on the members only part of the US Figure Skating website. There are a number of changes that affect adults. Included in them are:
-realigning the age classes to 4 classes to redistribute number (for example class I would now be 21-35 years, etc)
-changing the wording of adult mitf and adult freeskate tests to more closely align the wording to the standard track expectations and eliminate issues associated with judges not being familiar with the adult track
-combining masters intermediate and masters novice non-qual events to align with the championship categories
-combining masters junior and masters senior non-qual events to align with the championship categories
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So I am trying to figure out exactly what the rewording of the expectations for adult MITF tests actually means. Especially in my area, where even the standard track standards are pretty seriously inflated at the lower levels, and the adult tests were already being judged at the standard track standards anyway. Does this re-wording make things easier? Harder? No real change? ??? ??? ???
(I will also comment that I would have still rather seen them use the same moves as the standard track (PB = pre-pre, Bronze = pre, etc) with the option for a lower passing score for adult, similar to what they do for dance and the higher level moves, but that's just me. It just seems more logical, and easier for the judges to figure out than all the different moves flung together from different standard level tests.)
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-realigning the age classes to 4 classes to redistribute number (for example class I would now be 21-35 years, etc)
No! The ability of a 21 year old (who is often still a college student) is so different from that of a 30-something.
There is no freaking way I could compete with class I.
They just make this harder and harder.
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This doesn't necessarily have to pass, but those who oppose it need to tell their club delegates to vote against it.
There are also some changes to the MIF, a proposal to let dancers choose their own music for pattern dances, a new Open Masters division in synchro - it's really worth reading the Meeting Book. It's available on the Members Only section of the USFS web site. Click on General Info, then Governing Council.
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The 2014 Meeting book is on the members-only site now: https://www.usfsaonline.org/Utilities/GetFileFromStorage?filepath=GoverningCouncil%5Cgc2014%5C2014%20Meeting%20Book.pdf
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There are proposed Moves in the Field changes from the Singles Committee (not the Adult Committee) from the book, such as:
Pre-Juv / Adult Gold - Backward Circle Eight becomes a BO Figure pattern, with two complete patterns required. The transition and tracing of the BI edges would be eliminated.
Pre-Prel / Adult Pre-Bronze - instead of doing two patterns of the Waltz-8 like a Figure pattern, it would be done as a series of four half-circle lobes down the long axis of the rink. (FO3-BO-FO)
Juvenile / Adult Gold - combining the four Power Circle patterns to start with Fwd xovers in the CCW direction, turning backwards and finishing the pattern with Bwd xovers. Same combination from backward xovers to fwd xovers in a CW direction. Could be scary at speed. ::>) (No option of starting in the opposite direction, which is surprising.)
Intermediate - eliminating the spiral sequence patterns. (Rats - I liked those patterns.) ALSO: FI Twizzles only, no FO pattern.
Novice - Eliminate Forward Loop pattern. BO Twizzles only.
Junior - Adding new Choctaw Sequence. (Initial thought: Oh joy, another diagonal pattern to avoid on a busy freestyle session. It's okay; the current test has two sequences. This combines them so we don't have to play dodge-'em cars at center ice twice.)
Interesting footnote: they're proposing that the Int and Sr Supplemental tests be eliminated since few skaters tested them.
Effective 9/2014, I believe
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The Adult Committee proposed some wording changes to the rulebook for Adult Moves tests:
TR 25.09 Adult Pre-Bronze Moves in the Field Test
Expectations for this adult standard test reflect a passing average that aligns with the pre-preliminary moves in the field test. The purpose of this test is to encourage beginning adult skaters to learn the fundamentals of ice skating. No great deal of technical ability, carriage or flow is expected. Candidates must show knowledge of the steps, fairly good edges and some evidence of good form.
TR 25.10 Adult Bronze Moves in the Field Test
Expectations for this adult standard test reflect a passing average that aligns with the preliminary moves in the field test. The purpose of this test is to continue the encouragement of beginning adult skaters to learn the fundamentals of ice skating. The fundamentals of ice skating must be demonstrated although not necessarily mastered. Candidates The candidate must show knowledge of the steps and a sense of continuous flow and strength. Attention should be given to depth of edges and proper curvature of lobes.
TR 25.11 Adult Silver Moves in the Field Test
Expectations for this adult standard test reflect a passing average that aligns with the pre-juvenile moves in the field test. The fundamentals of ice skating must be demonstrated, although not necessarily mastered. Good edges, flow, strength, extension, and form are required and must be strongly emphasized. Candidates must skate the correct steps and turns on good edges showing good form, continuous flow and strength, and preciseness to their steps.
TR 25.12 Adult Gold Moves in the Field Test
Expectations for this adult standard test reflect a passing average that aligns with the juvenile moves in the field test. Candidates must skate the correct steps and turns on good edges, with good form, flow, strength and preciseness to their steps. Candidates must give a strong performance showing strong true edges, smooth turns, correct posture and effortless flow.
All effective 7/1/2014
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There are proposed Moves in the Field changes from the Singles Committee (not the Adult Committee) from the book, such as:
Novice - Eliminate Forward Loop pattern. BO Twizzles only.
BI Twizzles were SO HARD!! I practiced those for 30 minutes each session for 4 MONTHS before I took that test! Would have loved to skip those, haha.
I did like the loop pattern, though, they should keep that!
Some of the other changes sound pretty reasonable. The diagonal patterns are nearly impossible to practice on a busy session (or even a not-so-busy session).
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When would these new changes take effect?
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Dom't they have to vote on them or is this a done deal?
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I think the moves changes have to be voted on but the rulebook wording changes are likely a done deal. In the past, it's been a rubber-stamp if it was passed by the adult committee. I was too busy to note the age category changes but they're in there and yes, it reduces the categories, but the age range distribution is different.
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When would these new changes take effect?
Rulebook wording changes, 7/1/2014. Pattern changes, 9/1/2014.
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The Adult Committee proposed some wording changes to the rulebook for Adult Moves tests:
All effective 7/1/2014
Maybe I'm being really dense, but this is the part that I'm wondering what it really means. If anything.
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Am I understanding this correctly: The adult MITF standards are now the same as the kids standards?
If so, they've just killed the adult testing program for people over 40 and probably killed it totally for adult learners. Why bother having 'adult' tests if the standards are the same.
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I had figured if I ever got to competing it would be when I was 61 or older and I would be going against old farts like myself but now I'll have to face the 56-60 year old youngsters.
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Am I understanding this correctly: The adult MITF standards are now the same as the kids standards?
If so, they've just killed the adult testing program for people over 40 and probably killed it totally for adult learners. Why bother having 'adult' tests if the standards are the same.
In my mind you are reading it correctly.
Also agree with the "totally killed it" for adult learners over 40.
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In my mind you are reading it correctly.
Also agree with the "totally killed it" for adult learners over 40.
Screw USFSA. Hello ISI.
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Am I understanding this correctly: The adult MITF standards are now the same as the kids standards?
If so, they've just killed the adult testing program for people over 40 and probably killed it totally for adult learners. Why bother having 'adult' tests if the standards are the same.
Are the moves/patterns the same between the standard track and the adult track? I didn't get that far in the manual (and might not have understood it even if I had).
I did notice the changes that were struck out in Bronze were moved to Silver, and what was struck out in Silver was moved to Gold. That partially implies Bronze/Silver/Gold were relaxed a bit, but were the scores to pass a level raised?
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More info and videos! http://www.usfsa.org/shell.asp?sid=49843
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Am I understanding this correctly: The adult MITF standards are now the same as the kids standards?
That's what I'm afraid of. It's bad enough that my area has one of the hardest standards in general for moves tests. I've seen so many Youtube videos of moves tests (kids and adults) that apparently passed according to the person who posted them, that wouldn't even be close here. And the judges pretty much judge the adult tests here on the kids' standard anyway. If they're formalizing this...I'm screwed.
If so, they've just killed the adult testing program for people over 40 and probably killed it totally for adult learners. Why bother having 'adult' tests if the standards are the same.
I couldn't agree more.
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I moved up to Class IV today. In July, I get demoted back to Class III. How exciting! Guess I better aim to pass Bronze moves before September since it's what I've been working on since last year.
Do we lose the "master's" qualification for testing? It lowers the passing average from 2.7 to 2.5. At 51, I can use all the help I can get, especially if I have to start over learning new patterns.
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I am trying to wrap my head around this and wondering what the thought process is with both the "New Move" and dropping and altering some of the old Moves. What were they thinking???
My guess is that the forward loops and the outside twizzles were too hard.
The BI 8s are hard.
Waltz 8 is too hard to be on Pre-pre (although a friend and fellow judge pointed out that this was on the Preliminary Figure Test so why is it too hard for Pre-Pre? - and no, there was no pre-pre figure test...) -
I am in the process of making a table comparing the levels of the Moves. To answer a question from a previous poster - the adult Moves are all over the place - the Pre-Bronze has Moves from Pre-Pre, and Preliminary, Adult Bronze has moves from Preliminary and Pre-juv, etc. so honestly the judges can't expect the same on some moves as they are on the equivalent standard test but it will be hard to sort out when you are judging.
And yeah, what about the Masters tests?
I could see getting rid of those supplemental tests - I don't think anyone in our area even knew they existed!
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Am I understanding this correctly: The adult MITF standards are now the same as the kids standards?
If so, they've just killed the adult testing program for people over 40 and probably killed it totally for adult learners. Why bother having 'adult' tests if the standards are the same.
It appears the passing scores are unchanged, so in practice the adult tests and standard tests have been and will continue to be approximately the same. "Killed it totally" is hyperbolic.
My reading of this is that some of the adult AND standard tests are being made easier, and some arbitrary changes are being made. The reasoning given does not always have to do with difficulty.
Personally, if the intermediate spirals are eliminated that will encourage me to keep taking the adult tests because I will never be very flexible. Also, I already suffered through the silver spirals.
I am about to sign up for my gold moves test (before the change). I think the proposed change to the circle eight will make the test easier. The shortened power circles will also be easier.
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Guess I better aim to pass Bronze moves before September since it's what I've been working on since last year.
There are no changes to the bronze moves themselves. Just slightly different wording in the instructions for judges.
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There are no changes to the bronze moves themselves. Just slightly different wording in the instructions for judges.
That 'slightly' different wording is what I'm concerned about.
TR 25.09 Adult Pre-Bronze Moves in the Field Test
Expectations for this adult standard test reflect a passing average that aligns with the pre-preliminary moves in the field test. The purpose of this test is to encourage beginning adult skaters to learn the fundamentals of ice skating. No great deal of technical ability, carriage or flow is expected. Candidates must show knowledge of the steps, fairly good edges and some evidence of good form.
That indicates to me that adults are expected to pass standards (including scores) that are equal to the kids scores. That will make testing more difficult for adult testers over 40 (maybe 30). If USFSA wants to kill adult skating, they've picked a good way to do it.
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So here is my table comparing the Standard Moves structure to the Adult Moves. I hope it makes sense -
I have color-coded the Moves - the Standard Moves are on the left and the Adult on the Right -
What I see from looking at this is generally Moves are either at the same level or one level down from the Standard moves (except in Adult Silver which are all over the place). This tells me as a judge that I can accept a slightly lower standard if the Adult Moves that are at a lower level than the equivalent standard move. There are a few cases where the Move is at a higher level (for instance: Forward O and I spirals - so as a judge - what to do?).
Open the attachment to see the table.
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I plan on testing Adult Gold MITF soon and I am definitely happy about dropping the intermediate spiral pattern- so hard to do on sessions!
No more FO twizzles!!! They were pretty much the sticking point for my future intermediate test!
And loops... I started learning my loops almost a year ago in preparation for the novice moves some day, because they are so difficult. But, having practiced them made me control my blade so much better. I even have 2 different loops in my Bronze freestyle program now. Not that I am sad about letting them go by any means :-)
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And loops... I started learning my loops almost a year ago in preparation for the novice moves some day, because they are so difficult. But, having practiced them made me control my blade so much better. I even have 2 different loops in my Bronze freestyle program now. Not that I am sad about letting them go by any means :-)
I was speaking with another judge yesterday and we were sad to see the loops go because of that awesome control they teach. Difficult but the skaters that can do them have really learned a great skill.
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That indicates to me that adults are expected to pass standards (including scores) that are equal to the kids scores.
The adult and standard track passing scores below the intermediate level have been and will continue to be the same.
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There are no changes to the bronze moves themselves. Just slightly different wording in the instructions for judges.
So the bronze moves aren't changing to the preliminary? I'm confused. It totally makes sense for them to match (with a lower passing standard), but why change them now? Again.
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So the bronze moves aren't changing to the preliminary? I'm confused. It totally makes sense for them to match (with a lower passing standard), but why change them now? Again.
Bronze Moves are not changing.
The wording in the description has changed to reflect that they are to be judged at the same numerical standard as the Preliminary MITF test.
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What I see from looking at this is generally Moves are either at the same level or one level down from the Standard moves (except in Adult Silver which are all over the place). This tells me as a judge that I can accept a slightly lower standard if the Adult Moves that are at a lower level than the equivalent standard move. There are a few cases where the Move is at a higher level (for instance: Forward O and I spirals - so as a judge - what to do?).
Thanks for putting the table together. I haven't retried the Silver test since they changed to the prelim spirals, so I can't say how they're judging it compared to the standard track. But I did get below a passing score on my "invited to retry" Prelim test a few weeks ago, and the passing mark for Silver is even higher...not happening in this lifetime.
I really, really think it would have made a lot more sense to not mix up the moves and just have an Adult passing standard, and if they wanted, a Masters standard. Easier on the judges who have their passing standard defined in their head, and what a .2 below might be like. Easier on the coaches for the same reason. Better for the skaters because the progression is more logical. Yes, it would have meant that adults would have had to do the dreaded alternating 3's on preliminary, which completely disappeared from the adult track after making a brief appearance at Pre-Bronze (which was a REALLY weird place to put it). But at least then we'd be prepared for the forward/backward 3's on Silver, and having to do them .2 below standard track would at least help get through them. I can't say I'm particularly happy about the new judges' instructions either...my take on it is they are pretty much eliminating the leeway adults were supposed to be getting.
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Thanks for putting the table together.
You're welcome. I'm hoping my color-coding made sense.
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I wonder if USFS would think about having two separate testing tracks for adults, one for the people they REALLY want involved, those at higher levels who skated as kids and are in Masters or Gold, or headed there, and one for people like me, who started as older adults and have busted their tuchases (tuchasii?!) and spent thousands of dollars on ice, lessons, memberships, tests, dues, and competitions to get most of the way to the Silver level (Silver moves passed, free will be next test).
I know I'm not a great skater but I've worked hard under difficult circumstances (little or no ice seven months of the year) to get where I am in my fifties. If nothing else, USFS should recognize us as a source of possible income rather than devoting more and more energy encouraging the highest level and youngest adult skaters.
Changing the age ranges will not save the LOCs money at AN, from the group numbers I saw at this year's AN, and will discourage skaters in their 50's and up from competition unless they skated as kids or have fabulous genetics. The recommendations don't reflect that a large number of competitors, for example, in Bronze Free were at the oldest ranges--15 in 4 and 12 in 5, with 16 in 3, 13 in 2, and 5 in 1; or that there were 22 competitors in Silver Dramatic Showcase 4, with a number of them being at Silver rather than their freestyle Bronze level because of ice dance qualifications. Although I would benefit from this change by the next time I go to AN, as it will be when I'm in the youngest age group of the oldest group, I think it's a poor idea if there is any idea of encouraging older adults to attend AN and enjoy the competition experience.
I don't see how moving the age ranges around saves anyone money unless the hope is that fewer older adults will enter events such as Freestyle when they realize they have to compete against someone 15 years younger than they are. Ten years makes a big difference in what your body can do when you get past 40.
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I wonder if USFS would think about having two separate testing tracks for adults, one for the people they REALLY want involved, those at higher levels who skated as kids and are in Masters or Gold, or headed there, and one for people like me, who started as older adults and have busted their tuchases (tuchasii?!) and spent thousands of dollars on ice, lessons, memberships, tests, dues, and competitions to get most of the way to the Silver level (Silver moves passed, free will be next test).
I know I'm not a great skater but I've worked hard under difficult circumstances (little or no ice seven months of the year) to get where I am in my fifties. If nothing else, USFS should recognize us as a source of possible income rather than devoting more and more energy encouraging the highest level and youngest adult skaters.
I LOVE this idea - I have been thinking for a long while that we actually need separate Moves for adults (or maybe as you say - just some adults) -- I have been working on a series of moves that an adult can do, do well and will make them prettier skaters without being so difficult as to discourage their doing - let alone testing.
Although I did skate as a kid and have passed Silver Dances there are certainly limitations as I age. I have pretty much given up the idea of ever testing again - except maybe partnered dances (and get some more Pre-Golds under my belt) - but it would be nice to work on and perform some other Moves for judges - solo.
Some of my skating friends have gone back to get their solo dances - starting at the beginning with the Dutch Waltz - this is another way to test yourself - IF you are dance-inclined and have dance coaches in your area. It is great to watch a friend who has passed her Pre-Gold dances try to skate the BEST Dutch Waltz possible - and she learned alot about her skating and dancing in the process.
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Bronze Moves are not changing.
The wording in the description has changed to reflect that they are to be judged at the same numerical standard as the Preliminary MITF test.
Oh, good. That means I can still test after I get and adjust to new skates instead of starting all over.
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I LOVE this idea - I have been thinking for a long while that we actually need separate Moves for adults (or maybe as you say - just some adults) -- I have been working on a series of moves that an adult can do, do well and will make them prettier skaters without being so difficult as to discourage their doing - let alone testing.
Although I did skate as a kid and have passed Silver Dances there are certainly limitations as I age. I have pretty much given up the idea of ever testing again - except maybe partnered dances (and get some more Pre-Golds under my belt) - but it would be nice to work on and perform some other Moves for judges - solo.
Some of my skating friends have gone back to get their solo dances - starting at the beginning with the Dutch Waltz - this is another way to test yourself - IF you are dance-inclined and have dance coaches in your area. It is great to watch a friend who has passed her Pre-Gold dances try to skate the BEST Dutch Waltz possible - and she learned alot about her skating and dancing in the process.
I am definitely on board with all of the above! I suspect adult skaters could be a very good revenue stream for USFS if handled correctly--somewhere above being patronized and somewhere below being told to skate like 15 year olds or fail tests. I hustled through Silver Moves at the Adult level because I wasn't quite ready, but knew my back and hip would prevent me from passing the spiral pattern that's now on Silver (and my back has gotten worse in the last two years, so I'm glad I did it). While it's a great move for kids and young adults, it's virtually impossible for many older adults. But I'm sure it's not wise to shut older adults, especially retired adults with disposable income and time on their hands, out of testing. Without some kind of goal, people lose interest.
That said, I did take my first 6 dances at the standard level, then chickened out and took the next 3 at the adult level, but I've always had it in my head that if I ever finish my dances at the adult level, I'll go back and start over with the Hickory at the standard level--my scores for that and the Willow suggested I would have passed those at the standard level (but not the Ten Fox!). In the meantime I can stop dragging my feet (no pun intended)on the Fourteen Step now that AN is over--I wanted to compete once at the bronze level before having to move up because of my dance level.
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I am really discouraged reading about the judging standards for Silver and up. We already have tough judging standards here. Some of the passed tests I have seen on YouTube, would not pass here. I was a test chair for many years and have seen many tests.
That coupled with the fact that my club's board are doing some jerky things right now are making me question whether I am going to renew my membership come June.
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At ANs during the AC meeting. The rationale for the age limit changes is that other committees are putting pressure on the adult committee to lower the total number of different events offered at ANs. By formally combining the open Intermediate and Novice and open Junior and Senior and realigning the age groups, they are trying to do that before they are forced into an action that people may like even less.
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At ANs during the AC meeting. The rationale for the age limit changes is that other committees are putting pressure on the adult committee to lower the total number of different events offered at ANs. By formally combining the open Intermediate and Novice and open Junior and Senior and realigning the age groups, they are trying to do that before they are forced into an action that people may like even less.
What is the rationale for this?
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What is the rationale for this?
Presumably cost, or maybe availability of judges.
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At ANs during the AC meeting. The rationale for the age limit changes is that other committees are putting pressure on the adult committee to lower the total number of different events offered at ANs. By formally combining the open Intermediate and Novice and open Junior and Senior and realigning the age groups, they are trying to do that before they are forced into an action that people may like even less.
Could this all be in preparation for turning all the categories IJS?
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I am definitely on board with all of the above! I suspect adult skaters could be a very good revenue stream for USFS if handled correctly--somewhere above being patronized and somewhere below being told to skate like 15 year olds or fail tests. I hustled through Silver Moves at the Adult level because I wasn't quite ready, but knew my back and hip would prevent me from passing the spiral pattern that's now on Silver (and my back has gotten worse in the last two years, so I'm glad I did it). While it's a great move for kids and young adults, it's virtually impossible for many older adults. But I'm sure it's not wise to shut older adults, especially retired adults with disposable income and time on their hands, out of testing. Without some kind of goal, people lose interest.
That said, I did take my first 6 dances at the standard level, then chickened out and took the next 3 at the adult level, but I've always had it in my head that if I ever finish my dances at the adult level, I'll go back and start over with the Hickory at the standard level--my scores for that and the Willow suggested I would have passed those at the standard level (but not the Ten Fox!). In the meantime I can stop dragging my feet (no pun intended)on the Fourteen Step now that AN is over--I wanted to compete once at the bronze level before having to move up because of my dance level.
I was just about to reply to someone else, but your post is quite relevant.
Pretty much the same for me. I've pretty much surrendered to those spirals.
Bronze is as far as I'll go.
But if I ever compete, I will be phenomenal at Bronze.
If not for those spirals, I can do pretty much everything on Silver and Gold without issue.
But I'm not in this for residual pain. If I do moves on a session, I'm pretty much guaranteed to have a sore/weak left hip and lower back for the next 4-7 days. Sorry, no can do.
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Could this all be in preparation for turning all the categories IJS?
IJS for all levels would actually be an improvement, one that I would welcome.
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What is the rationale for this?
It makes scheduling for the chief ref a nightmare with people spread across 3 or 4 events. Also, some events are very small and according to USFS, not cost effective to hold. Also, there have been requests for new events and competitor committee said no more new events until others are pared down
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IJS for all levels would actually be an improvement, one that I would welcome.
Come to Europe! Everything is IJS. It's very difficult to find a 6.0 competition these days.
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Could this all be in preparation for turning all the categories IJS?
Good Lord,I hope not! I can see the pre-bronze scores now--Win with a score of 5.2! 88)
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I was just about to reply to someone else, but your post is quite relevant.
Pretty much the same for me. I've pretty much surrendered to those spirals.
Bronze is as far as I'll go.
But if I ever compete, I will be phenomenal at Bronze.
If not for those spirals, I can do pretty much everything on Silver and Gold without issue.
But I'm not in this for residual pain. If I do moves on a session, I'm pretty much guaranteed to have a sore/weak left hip and lower back for the next 4-7 days. Sorry, no can do.
So why not just test Silver (and presumably Gold) and just have suck-y spirals? If the rest of the test is that great, maybe you would pass it anyway.
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So why not just test Silver (and presumably Gold) and just have suck-y spirals? If the rest of the test is that great, maybe you would pass it anyway.
I like being able to go through a week without the residual hip and back pain. The tests aren't that important to me at this point. I'm still improving and having fun without them
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I like being able to go through a week without the residual hip and back pain. The tests aren't that important to me at this point. I'm still improving and having fun without them
Oh I thought that it was the spirals that gave you the pain.
My bad.
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Oh I thought that it was the spirals that gave you the pain.
My bad.
It is. That's what I meant. I'm not willing to hurt that much for that test. It's not that big of a deal for me, anymore.
Edit: After doing a bit of looking around I think I'll just switch to ISI and take their tests. The test progression seems a lot better than USFS and I'll still be able to compete Bronze or Silver USFS if I wanted, since I'll keep up my membership. There is hope!
Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk
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It makes scheduling for the chief ref a nightmare with people spread across 3 or 4 events. Also, some events are very small and according to USFS, not cost effective to hold. Also, there have been requests for new events and competitor committee said no more new events until others are pared down
I wonder what makes them not cost effective. The rink is rented for a certain price. Do the judges get paid per event or per day? What are the variable costs at ANs? Besides, the more people enter different events, the more money the competition makes.
I personally think the light entertainment event should be held by level and not by level AND age. After all, the focus is a lot less technical. It seems those events are more of an exhibition than a competition. Same goes for some of the dramatic and interpretive events.
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USFS judges don't get paid at all. There's a per diem for expenses, but they don't get paid to judge.
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USFS judges don't get paid at all. There's a per diem for expenses, but they don't get paid to judge. Plus don't the IJS events need technical specialists and callers and all of that plus the referrees, etc.
Hotels, transportation and meals - if they have to fly a lot of people in, it definitely costs money.
Plus the IJS system costs something (at least when the clubs put on a competition they have to pay for the use of the equipment) - so yeah, it is expensive to run a competition of that scale.
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Good Lord,I hope not! I can see the pre-bronze scores now--Win with a score of 5.2! 88)
Generally the winners in Prebronze get a higher score than I get in bronze. But the lower end of prebronze can be below 5.2...
Basically we all go from competition to competition aiming to get something else called technically (and keeping what we did have). There's kudos in having an IJS sit spin!
It's a great motivator (if you can ignore the demoralising number).
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Generally the winners in Prebronze get a higher score than I get in bronze. But the lower end of prebronze can be below 5.2...
Basically we all go from competition to competition aiming to get something else called technically (and keeping what we did have). There's kudos in having an IJS sit spin!
It's a great motivator (if you can ignore the demoralising number).
Agree. The number doesn't matter. The protocol is what matters. But it's nice to actually be rewarded for having full rotation on jumps, correct edge take offs and better element quality or skating skills.
What I seen in the ordinal placements for adult nationals was a joke. IJS solves a lot of issues with the judging, IMO, even at the lowest levels.
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I wonder what makes them not cost effective. The rink is rented for a certain price. Do the judges get paid per event or per day? What are the variable costs at ANs? Besides, the more people enter different events, the more money the competition makes.
First, you have hourly ice costs. You must rent the ice by the hour, and in some rinks that can be quite expensive. This means you are renting ice for practice ice as well as competition ice. For ANs, this likely means all day for at least 4 days (2 sheets) for competition, plus practice on Tuesday and the practices during the week as well.
Next, you have to fly in officials. This means judges, music, accountants, tech specialists, etc. They have a per diem as well as airfare, hotel, etc. If there is no shuttle service by the hotel, you either need to provide it (which may mean renting a car or van) or they have to get rental cars.
You may have IJS equipment rental costs. You have judges gifts, competitors gifts, and hospitality costs if you can't get that stuff donated. You may need to pay for advertising and publicity. Then there are costs for the competitor's party as well.
If I recall correctly, entry fees generally go to US Figure Skating. I don't know if the host club gets a certain percentage or they get something outright, but I don't think the full entry fee goes to the host club because it's a US Figure Skating event.
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I personally think the light entertainment event should be held by level and not by level AND age. After all, the focus is a lot less technical. It seems those events are more of an exhibition than a competition. Same goes for some of the dramatic and interpretive events.
I thought this until I watched several different levels of Bronze and Silver showcase events at AN's this year. While the focus is less technical, the best skaters tend to place extremely high. The oldest group--61 and up--could not have competed with the skaters in the 31 to 40 group.
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Agree. The number doesn't matter. The protocol is what matters. But it's nice to actually be rewarded for having full rotation on jumps, correct edge take offs and better element quality or skating skills.
What I seen in the ordinal placements for adult nationals was a joke. IJS solves a lot of issues with the judging, IMO, even at the lowest levels.
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ijs isn't much better, frankly, and if it gets implemented at the lower levels, judges will have to sure through done painful attempts at leveled spins...
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ijs isn't much better, frankly, and if it gets implemented at the lower levels, judges will have to sure through done painful attempts at leveled spins...
As someone who competes IJS at the lower levels, very few people attempt levels on spins. Most of adults are just delighted to get a basic sit spin called, and we're all struggling to get a camel called (it's very easy to have a marginal leg dip). The only level attempt people go for is the back spin (in any position), and a few broken legs, and possibly holding for the 8 revs. I think in actual fact IJS did away with the painful attempts at spins as no one is going to put a spin in which won't get called. I think there are possibly more painful attempts with the low level kids, but even there, they're disappearing. Skaters are very aware of PCS and GOE.
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As someone who competes IJS at the lower levels, very few people attempt levels on spins. Most of adults are just delighted to get a basic sit spin called, and we're all struggling to get a camel called (it's very easy to have a marginal leg dip). The only level attempt people go for is the back spin (in any position), and a few broken legs, and possibly holding for the 8 revs. I think in actual fact IJS did away with the painful attempts at spins as no one is going to put a spin in which won't get called. I think there are possibly more painful attempts with the low level kids, but even there, they're disappearing. Skaters are very aware of PCS and GOE.
This.
I haven't been really enthused with the 6.0 judging I've seen. Will definitely hold out until I'm high enough for IJS or they implement it at Silver level.
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I think there are possibly more painful attempts with the low level kids, but even there, they're disappearing. Skaters are very aware of PCS and GOE.
I think this is one of those things that varies by location. At my rink, none of the kids do a plain-old sit spin anymore, not even the no-test kids who are just learning them. They're all trying these crazy contortions and variations without any concept of the "basic" spin. Same was true of spirals before they changed the rules on those...the skate school kids in FS 1 all thought a spiral had to be done by grabbing the blade. I subbed once for the coach teaching FS 1 and the kids' minds were boggled on how a traditional spiral was done.
I'm kind of glad I'm not competing right now, and am probably Bronze for Life anyway. The feedback of the protocols is nice, but I'd be one of those people who would be completely demoralized by the minus sign in front of my total score. ;)
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I think this is one of those things that varies by location. At my rink, none of the kids do a plain-old sit spin anymore, not even the no-test kids who are just learning them. They're all trying these crazy contortions and variations without any concept of the "basic" spin. Same was true of spirals before they changed the rules on those...the skate school kids in FS 1 all thought a spiral had to be done by grabbing the blade. I subbed once for the coach teaching FS 1 and the kids' minds were boggled on how a traditional spiral was done.
I'm kind of glad I'm not competing right now, and am probably Bronze for Life anyway. The feedback of the protocols is nice, but I'd be one of those people who would be completely demoralized by the minus sign in front of my total score. ;)
There is no such thing as a negative score....
What minus sign?
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ijs isn't much better, frankly, and if it gets implemented at the lower levels, judges will have to sure through done painful attempts at leveled spins...
I don't think so - because if they are poor enough they won't even get called as whatever spin you are doing, and then you gain no points at all from the attempt, then more focus will be placed on getting those spins good enough to get called, and that is NOT a bad thing. You won't be able to get enough features to even get levels called if you don't have solid basic spins.
I can't tell you how frustrating it is judging a basic skills comp where everyone in the spins competition does weird sit spin variations - it's really hard to judge beyond "are they sitting" (some don't) and "did they hit 3 revolutions" (most actually don't), and honestly one well done PLAIN sit spin (low and fast) would easily help a skater win that event because it would actually look more impressive than what everyone else is doing.
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Great, I'm all confused.
Back in 2000, I passed Preliminary Moves in the Field and Prepreliminary Freeskate. Back in 2000, I was next to take pre-Juvenile MIF. When I came back to skating this past year, I was told to go back and test for Adult prebronze. I did and passed prebronze. Today, I've ben practicing my Adult Bronze MIF! I think I have it down perfectly, and was hoping to test this month but our club did not have testing.
Let's see what's up. Looks like a repeat of one item, and two new items to learn perfectly. And, they include spirals. (The older I get, the harder a spiral becomes. Can kill my lower back, causing sciatica nerve pain and absolutely no skating when that flares up.) I really hope the "adult section" thinks hard about spirals at the bronze, adult level. They are asking for two lengths of the ice, on edges. That's alot of repeated leg lifting.
Preliminary moves in the field
Forward and Backward Crossovers Done in Pre-Bronze Adult
Consecutive Outside and Inside Spirals Diagram Not done in Adult pre-bronze or bronze
Forward Power Three-Turns Diagram Bronze test
Alternating Forward Three-Turns Diagram Not done in adult pre-bronze or bronze
Forward Circle Eights (new) Diagram Bronze test
Alternating Backward Crossovers to Backward Outside Edges Diagram Bronze test
Anyone know of testing in Florida before June 30th? Stock up on Ben Gay!
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There is no such thing as a negative score....
As far as I know there is no limit on how many fall deductions someone could get. Is there a minimum score rule?
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does weird sit spin variations - it's really hard to judge beyond "are they sitting" (some don't) and "did they hit 3 revolutions" (most actually don't), and honestly one well done PLAIN sit spin (low and fast) would easily help a skater win that event because it would actually look more impressive than what everyone else is doing.
I have that low and fast sit spin and I would enjoy just showing that off. But, now, it's camel, sit, change sit that I'm mastering . . . all due to points.
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Great, I'm all confused.
Back in 2000, I passed Preliminary Moves in the Field and Prepreliminary Freeskate. Back in 2000, I was next to take pre-Juvenile MIF. When I came back to skating this past year, I was told to go back and test for Adult prebronze. I did and passed prebronze. Today, I've ben practicing my Adult Bronze MIF! I think I have it down perfectly, and was hoping to test this month but our club did not have testing.
Let's see what's up. Looks like a repeat of one item, and two new items to learn perfectly. And, they include spirals. (The older I get, the harder a spiral becomes. Can kill my lower back, causing sciatica nerve pain and absolutely no skating when that flares up.) I really hope the "adult section" thinks hard about spirals at the bronze, adult level. They are asking for two lengths of the ice, on edges. That's alot of repeated leg lifting.
Preliminary moves in the field
Forward and Backward Crossovers Done in Pre-Bronze Adult
Consecutive Outside and Inside Spirals Diagram Not done in Adult pre-bronze or bronze
Forward Power Three-Turns Diagram Bronze test
Alternating Forward Three-Turns Diagram Not done in adult pre-bronze or bronze
Forward Circle Eights (new) Diagram Bronze test
Alternating Backward Crossovers to Backward Outside Edges Diagram Bronze test
Anyone know of testing in Florida before June 30th? Stock up on Ben Gay!
So, this is confusing.
If you took the Preliminary Moves already - why not go on to Pre-Juv? And if you have tested Adult Pre-Bronze - do you plan to take Adult Bronze Moves? There are no spirals on the Adult Bronze Moves.
The spirals on consecutive edges are on the Adult Silver Moves test.
I know. Clear as mud.
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And, they include spirals. (The older I get, the harder a spiral becomes. Can kill my lower back, causing sciatica nerve pain and absolutely no skating when that flares up.) I really hope the "adult section" thinks hard about spirals at the bronze, adult level. They are asking for two lengths of the ice, on edges. That's alot of repeated leg lifting.
Believe it or not, the silver spiral pattern used to be the one from pre-pre (straight line spirals). There also used to be a stupidly difficult (for the level) 3 turn pattern on pre-bronze that is now gone since they moved the pre-pre spirals to pre-bronze and put the prelim spirals on silver. It was that dumb 3 turn pattern that kept me from testing pre-bronze for like 2 years, then they went and changed it right about when I was finally ready to test it. I run through that 3 turn pattern every once in a while, and I still find it very difficult for a supposedly low level pattern, and I've passed my silver moves.
The funny thing is, each time they make significant changes, they swear they won't make any more - but then more seem to keep coming. It's frustrating since it can often take us adults more than a few months to get a test level ready to put in front of the judges - the changes to the silver test back in 2011 meant that I didn't test my silver moves until 2013, because it took me that long to get the strength and endurance to actually skate that pattern strong enough to put it in front of the judges. Now when I look back that seems like an exceptionally long time to have worked on it, compared to the amount of work required to maintain it (I run through the whole pattern on average once a session, as part of my "warm up"), but it's the reality of skating as an adult - we just don't have the bodies that the little kids do, and I'm not even "that" old yet.
I tried to skate through the changes to the power circles on gold yesterday - YIKES. Granted I've been working on Gold for a year now, so I'm quite comfortable with the moves as they were, but I can see that it's going to take a significant amount of practice time to get as comfortable with the new patterns, and it may be a while before they are as strong as the old ones - and I wasn't planning on trying to find a test session this summer or enough ice time to practice for a test this summer, I had already talked to my coach about waiting until fall, so the changes sort of suck for me. There may still be a chance I can test them again before the changes go into effect, but I'm not sure I'd opt to try if I could.
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That stupid three turn pattern on pre bronze was the main reason I got a "retry" on my first attempt. It took me seven years to get the courage to try again.
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There is no such thing as a negative score....
What minus sign?
I don't know whether a "negative" overall score is still possible, but it certainly was a few years ago. I still have in my skate bag a copy of a judges protocol sheet of an event at a well-respected adult competition, and the last-placed competitor in that event did indeed end up with a negative overall score (ie: they would have earned more points by not stepping on the ice). It must have been extremely demoralising for the skater to see that score.
After seeing the protocol sheet, I wondered if the powers that be might consider changing the rules to require that the final score be not less than zero, at least in non-elite events, but haven't seen anything in any rules to facilitate it.
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I don't know whether a "negative" overall score is still possible, but it certainly was a few years ago. I still have in my skate bag a copy of a judges protocol sheet of an event at a well-respected adult competition, and the last-placed competitor in that event did indeed end up with a negative overall score (ie: they would have earned more points by not stepping on the ice). It must have been extremely demoralising for the skater to see that score.
After seeing the protocol sheet, I wondered if the powers that be might consider changing the rules to require that the final score be not less than zero, at least in non-elite events, but haven't seen anything in any rules to facilitate it.
I suppose that if you fall enough the deductions can make a score negative, now that I think about it, at the lower levels.
I don't see why they should change the rules cause of that though. That's the skater's problem. Outside of mandatory deductions it's virtually impossible to score negative in IJS.
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I sent an email to the adult skating committee (found their info on the USFSA website) and got a reply back today. I addressed the concerns that I and a lot of other adult skaters were having around the age group proposal, and the basic response back was, "too bad."
They said that they noticed a shift in "the bell curve" so they had to consolidate the age groups. And said the would likely do it again in the near future as the bell curve shifts.
I also talked about the possibility of moving all events to IJS and they shot that down quickly. They said that skaters in the lower levels would potentially receive no points for their programs if that was the case. But I agree with what someone said earlier on this post - that might not be a bad thing because it would almost force people to learn their elements correctly.
I would encourage you all to voice your opinions to the committee as well. Please report back if they reply!
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As far as I know there is no limit on how many fall deductions someone could get. Is there a minimum score rule?
As an accountant for competitions, I've seen some pretty low IJS scores but never a negative. As a competitor, I do remember a woman in a Bronze event in Europe whose total score was something like 0.38. I suppose technicall a negative technical score would be possible, if there were enough falls and deductions.
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As an accountant for competitions, I've seen some pretty low IJS scores but never a negative. As a competitor, I do remember a woman in a Bronze event in Europe whose total score was something like 0.38. I suppose technicall a negative technical score would be possible, if there were enough falls and deductions.
I don't think there is a cap on the number of fall deductions (or others, like music under/over time, lyrics in music when not allowed, finishing behind the music, etc.) you can have, however it's pretty rare for anyone to score below a 0 in TES and it's almost impossible to do that in PCS unless you basically go on the ice do your elements and then stand around until the music is over doing nothing in between.
Personally I think PCS is judged in too much of a "rank" order .
A skater can skate basically the same steps in Gold and Masters/Intermediate and their PCS will go up in the higher level simply because they're in a higher level. If the judges judge by the criteria strictly, the risk of scoring so low will not be as high at the lower levels, a since even many Silver-level programs I've seen shouldn't have an issue scoring Almost in the 2's for TR/SS and a little higher in the more subjective/performance-oriented PCS criteria if they have a decent program. I guess the silver lining is that we aren't paying thousands for a choreographer :-P
The whole point of PCS is supposed to allow a skater who has weak skating skills to still capitalize on their better performance qualities, and one who has not a great performer to capitalize on their better technical arsenal/SS/TR - while enforcing precision and correctness on the pure technical elements (Correct Turns/Edges, Proper Jump Take-offs/Landings, Checked/Proper spin positions and revolutions, etc.) but the judges seem intent (at basically all levels of competition) on boxing all of the categories into one narrow corridor.
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I had started the pre-juv moves in the field practices for a few months, but went on to more important things (my first child). it was the three-turn pattern that was giving me fits. Backward inside three turns. I took a group class last year, and ended up learning them finally alot better. I could do the pre-juv test, but I'm 45 years young. I think it would take me 6 to 8 months of practice. I thought the adult testing was more appropriate. Glad to hear that those spirals are not until Silver MIF! Whether adult or regular, after bronze MIF, I think it's going to take me 6 months to a year to pass each test. As adults with jobs/families, it's hard to skate every day.
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I've been working on my Silver Moves for so long, I remember the old Silver Moves before they were changed. My best move was put on the old Gold test and then it went away totally (although I think it might be on the Intermediate test). All these changes and they STILL won't get rid of that stupid 8 step outside mohawk. Grumble, grumble.
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My best move was put on the old Gold test and then it went away totally (although I think it might be on the Intermediate test).
Was that the inside slide chassé pattern? That's my favorite on intermediate and I think it was once on Novice... while it was still on Silver :) I would rather see them move that one back to gold instead of adding in the "new" intermediate power circle pattern.
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Was that the inside slide chassé pattern? That's my favorite on intermediate and I think it was once on Novice... while it was still on Silver :) I would rather see them move that one back to gold instead of adding in the "new" intermediate power circle pattern.
YES!!! It was the inside slide chasse (how'd you get that accent mark on your post?). I learned that and got it immediately. Then what do they do? They take it off the Silver test. Don't remember what they added in its place, but I found that one so easy.
How can I start a campaign to get rid of the outside mohawks on the Silver test. I'm not kidding. I hate those things.
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Outside mohawks in the silver moves make a logical progression of turn difficulty.
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Outside mohawks in the silver moves make a logical progression of turn difficulty.
I agree! In the dances you see these turns first at Bronze and then again at Pre-Silver (albeit only in the CCW direction) but Silver seems just right for this move.
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Was that the inside slide chassé pattern? That's my favorite on intermediate and I think it was once on Novice... while it was still on Silver :) I would rather see them move that one back to gold instead of adding in the "new" intermediate power circle pattern.
Slide chasse pattern was never on Novice. The "old" Novice patterns were the first move as end patterns for perimeter stroking (moves 1+2), a nasty old spiral pattern, and the bracket three bracket. I was glad to see those go. Slide chasse went from Silver to Gold then out of the adult test track altogether
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Outside mohawks in the silver moves make a logical progression of turn difficulty.
Perhaps, but I have closed hips and am a bit pigeon toed, so according to my coach, my outside mohawks are never right. Also, I took a really, really bad fall on a mohawk and I think that may be in the back of my mind. (Think hairline cheek fracture, mild concussion and biting through your bottom lip)
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Slide chasse pattern was never on Novice. The "old" Novice patterns were the first move as end patterns for perimeter stroking (moves 1+2), a nasty old spiral pattern, and the bracket three bracket. I was glad to see those go. Slide chasse went from Silver to Gold then out of the adult test track altogether
I loved that spiral pattern!! I passed Novice two weeks before the changes - the first two moves were an endurance test - four full laps of the rink! I was happy to see the bracket/3/bracket go though, I still have the bruises from falling on that.
Perhaps, but I have closed hips and am a bit pigeon toed, so according to my coach, my outside mohawks are never right. Also, I took a really, really bad fall on a mohawk and I think that may be in the back of my mind. (Think hairline cheek fracture, mild concussion and biting through your bottom lip)
I gave myself a concussion/broke my arm on 8-step mohawk so I feel your pain - for me, I just had to do them over and over till I stopped worrying about hurting them. I figured once I passed the move, never again. Then they showed up in the dances....and now I don't think about it at all. I also feel like the 8-step is more about cadence and even pushes then a perfect outside mohawk - at least my dance coach is pickier about the mohawks now!
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I gave myself a concussion/broke my arm on 8-step mohawk so I feel your pain - for me, I just had to do them over and over till I stopped worrying about hurting them. I figured once I passed the move, never again.
That 8 step is...yikes. Add me to the broke-a-bone-while-working-on-the-8-step club (wrist). Mine didn't even happen on the mohawk...it was the stupid steps afterward. I was trying to sit back on my blade a bit so as to get off my toepicks, sat too far back and caught a heel and WHAM. That was 5 years ago. Haven't tried the 8 step since. I'm undecided about my future with MITF testing since I'm pretty much stuck, so I don't intend to try it again anytime soon, either.
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Am I understanding this correctly: The adult MITF standards are now the same as the kids standards?
If so, they've just killed the adult testing program for people over 40 and probably killed it totally for adult learners. Why bother having 'adult' tests if the standards are the same.
I realize it's a little late to be responding to this post, and I am not representing the Adult Committee in any way, but I was present at the meeting at A.N. and this is one of the changes that was explained and greeted with a very positive response. These wording changes to the adult tests in the rulebook were to make sure judges did NOT judge adults more strictly than they are supposed to. Since a lot of judges aren't very familiar with the adult tests and adult passing standards, these updated descriptions give the judges references to the equivalent standard track test to give them perspective and an understanding of the quality level expected. Meanwhile, the new adult test wording eliminates the use of the words "power" and "posture", since both are more difficult for adults to achieve than for younger skaters. Even the word "good" was taken out in reference to edges, since to some judges, "good" means Intermediate or Novice quality. Also, the adult passing mark remains lower than the standard track for each of these moves and the age 50+ passing mark is even lower. We are definitely not being held to the same standards as the standard track testers. The new wording was simply designed to describe the adult test expectations in terms the judges already understand.
I think the best change of all was that the words "in recognizable sit position" were added to the Adult Bronze Freeskate test to eliminate any misunderstanding by the judges, some of whom have been assuming an IJS-quality sit spin is expected because there were no instructions to the contrary. All of these changes should help judges judge adult tests with the appropriate expectations, resulting in more adults passing their tests starting this summer.
As for the MIF test elements changing, I groan every time it happens, since we adults often work on a test for several years before passing it and changes really throw a wrench in the works! Unfortunately, the standard track MIF keep changing and that forces changes to the adult tests. I would personally love to see the adult MIF left alone for the next 5 years. . .
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I would personally love to see the adult MIF left alone for the next 5 years. . .
I think we all would!
I am happy to report though, that while skating through the "new" power circle patterns last week left me feeling incredible defeated, this week things were MUCH better... like night and day better, so I don't think those changes are going to be especially problematic for anyone already working on gold.
An added bonus to the intermediate changes is that gold and intermediate now share 3 moves in common, and the hardest parts of the intermediate test (which for me was the spiral pattern, and the outside twizzles) are now gone. Now I feel like I will absolutely be ready to test intermediate once I get past gold.
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I realize it's a little late to be responding to this post, and I am not representing the Adult Committee in any way, but I was present at the meeting at A.N. and this is one of the changes that was explained and greeted with a very positive response. These wording changes to the adult tests in the rulebook were to make sure judges did NOT judge adults more strictly than they are supposed to. Since a lot of judges aren't very familiar with the adult tests and adult passing standards, these updated descriptions give the judges references to the equivalent standard track test to give them perspective and an understanding of the quality level expected.
Thanks for explaining the intent behind the wording changes. The only thing that still scares me - a LOT, actually, is that the moves standards in my area are pretty highly inflated. I spent a lot of time watching Prelim MITF videos on Youtube before I tested, and there are a number of them in other locations that passed that would have never passed here. Toepushing, steppy crossovers instead of stroking, lack of control transitioning the spirals from one side to another, and general scratchy-ness were all things I got dinged on, but all of these things showed up in these supposedly passing tests. So for the judges in my area to be instructed to equate anything to the kids levels, in any way, shape or form...it's hard not to be concerned, at least here. Still thinking testing out of the area may be my best option.
Meanwhile, the new adult test wording eliminates the use of the words "power" and "posture", since both are more difficult for adults to achieve than for younger skaters.
I don't know if I've ever seen the difference between "power" and "continuous flow and strength" defined. Anyone have any input on this?
I think the best change of all was that the words "in recognizable sit position" were added to the Adult Bronze Freeskate test to eliminate any misunderstanding by the judges, some of whom have been assuming an IJS-quality sit spin is expected because there were no instructions to the contrary.
That is definitely good news. I took my bronze FS eons ago...right after they changed the structure and added Pre-Bronze, and that's what the expectation was then. I remember getting a comment that mine was "high", but the test still passed. I thought I also saw that they modified the revolutions on the combo spin on Silver, so when and if (ha ha) I ever pass enough moves tests to be able to test Silver FS, this one might be doable.
Thanks again. Guess it's "wait and see" time.
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Meanwhile, the new adult test wording eliminates the use of the words "power" and "posture", since both are more difficult for adults to achieve than for younger skaters.
Did it? Because I'm looking at Page 77 of the meeting book and it certainly looks like it lists "Focus: Power" under both of the new power circle moves under Adult Gold. I remember the old/current one had "strength and continuous flow" as the focus.
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Is the moves change a done deal or do they still need to vote on it?
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Is the moves change a done deal or do they still need to vote on it?
The pattern changes are up for vote at GC, so speak to your club rep / send in proxy (indiv. members) if you object.
The wording changes to the adult moves descriptions are a done deal.
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When is the voting happening?
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Governing Council is always in early May, this year May 1 - 4. All the information is on the USFS web site - www.usfigureskating.org. Governing Council information is in the Members Only section of the site. All USFS members should apply for passwords - there's no charge, but it can take a few days for the request to be processed. Other information, such as the Rule Book, is available on the main site for anyone to access.
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Did it? Because I'm looking at Page 77 of the meeting book and it certainly looks like it lists "Focus: Power" under both of the new power circle moves under Adult Gold. I remember the old/current one had "strength and continuous flow" as the focus.
Hmm. . . If that's the case, then it could be that the revision of the test description wording was done using the current moves and the new moves were introduced after that was already done. The new wording originated within the Adult Committee but the new moves did not, so that would make sense.
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There's a sticky in this forum that Debbi S wrote - it's very thorough.
http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=368.0
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Hmm. . . If that's the case, then it could be that the revision of the test description wording was done using the current moves and the new moves were introduced after that was already done. The new wording originated within the Adult Committee but the new moves did not, so that would make sense.
I have noticed this in the past on test sheets that sometimes new wordings don't make it on all of the moves - I blame the whole "cut and paste" idea - plus lack of editing - I think they try, really they do, but mistakes do happen and as a judge you just have to roll with it.
Not just on the wording but sometimes the numbers for "passing average" don't add up either - eventually they do get changed.
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How can I start a campaign to get rid of the outside mohawks on the Silver test. I'm not kidding. I hate those things.
Oh, please don't! Mine are getting close after over a year of working on them. So if they eliminate them, what will they put in instead? ::>)
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If you want to follow the goings-on at this year's Governing Council, the Twitter hashtag is #GC14 or #GCSeattle . Lots of tweets and blog posts, specifically:
http://govcouncil2014.blogspot.com
https://twitter.com/MEHarty
http://stmoritzisc2014gc.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/sk8kate
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Interesting - one of the proposals is to change the "Basic Skills Program" name to "Learn to Skate USA." Done deal. Meh. Guess "Skate USA" was already taken by the ISU Grand Prix competition.
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This is a great observation from #GC14 #GCSeattle -
And a big shout-out to the DoubleTree SeaTac for giving us meeting rooms that have the same temperature as ice rinks.
I hate freezing cold meeting rooms. I huddle, shiver and get easily distracted. Or I fall asleep.
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This is a great observation from #GC14 #GCSeattle -
I hate freezing cold meeting rooms. I huddle, shiver and get easily distracted. Or I fall asleep.
Me too! It's like all my mental energy becomes focused on staying warm and when I can get out of there to warm-up.
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Also, thanks for posting the links. It's been really interesting to read what's going on. I also read the notes from the meeting at adult nationals that was posted on the usfs website. Great resources for getting a feel for the discussions happening.
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Bwahahaha Diet Coke bong! ;D
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I loved the blog posts!
It looks like the MITF changes/proposals have been sent back to committee.
Also interesting - the idea that the test structure reflect IJS-type-scoring and judging has been proposed - apparently they have this in Canada? I hope hope hope this happens in my (judging) lifetime.
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Looks like all the changes passed. Loops were the only move that garnered the most votes in opposition.
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Looks like all the changes passed. Loops were the only move that garnered the most votes in opposition.
I believe that all the moves changes were sent back to committee, meaning none of them were voted on at GC.
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I believe that all the moves changes were sent back to committee, meaning none of them were voted on at GC.
That was my understanding from what I read of the online coverage (blogging) as well.
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Yes, all MIF changes were sent back to committee so no changes for now.
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So, what are all the "voted for and "against" numbers in the Meeting Book on their website? I thought those were the results from the meeting vote.
Can somebody please explain how the USFSA works?
Thanks!
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An item has to be passed by the appropriate committee before it gets put up for a vote by the entire Governing Council. You're seeing the results of the committee vote.
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So, what does it mean that the items were sent back to the committee?
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So, what does it mean that the items were sent back to the committee?
My assumption would be that they require revision - possibly due to wording.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out, as I fully expected the changes to be passed, but I'd like to see what is being changed.
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I also read the notes from the meeting at adult nationals that was posted on the usfs website. Great resources for getting a feel for the discussions happening.
Can you post a link to these? I wasn't able to attend the meeting and never found out what happened--and I can't find them on the USFS website! Thanks.
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Does anybody know if the re-leveling of Adult age groups/classes passed at GC? It was a hot topic at Adult Nationals.
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Yes, it passed, but in a revised form. The new age classes are:
I: 21 - 35
II: 36 - 45
III: 46 - 55
IV: 56 - 65
V: 66 and up
The referee at Adult Nationals can combine groups if numbers warrant - I heard if there were fewer than 6.
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Report of Action is online
http://www.usfsa.org/content/2013-14%20Combined%20Report%20of%20Action%20FINAL.pdf
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So, as a skater who became an adult....when I left competitive skating/testing I was about to take the 3rd figures & the novice freeskate test. So right now I can start with the Novice MIF. From what I have read in the 2014 Governing Council Report, they are removing loops from this test as of Sept. 2, 2014. Can anyone comfirm? Loops are very difficult to perform correctly on a freestyle blade (figures were my specialty believe it or not!) and this would totally make my day! :)
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No, the loops were not removed from the Novice MITF test. It was a proposed moves change, but it was sent back to committee, along with all the other proposed moves changes. This means that the earliest it might change will be after governing council next year (May 2015) but the proposed changes may not even be the same.
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None of the MIF tests were approved this year, they went back to committee and they will be revised and probably voted on again at GC next year.
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Okay, so Waltz 8 stays in Adult Pre-Bronze MIF? Because I was going to be annoyed if it got cut right before I tested... LOL
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Yes. The waltz 8 is still on the pre-bronze moves test.
(That was one of my favorites)