Tight and sore muscles

[sampaguita]

My muscles are sore after skating (especially if I do the lunge). Even the jumps which I think are painless (if you don't fall) seem to be affecting my neck, shoulder and back muscles. My left anterior hip and adductor muscles are sore right now, and I can neither stretch nor skate.

I tried having a stretching routine once but it doesn't work. Seems that my muscles are too tight that I have lots of trigger points. I did have some success with tennis ball therapy for my glutes, but not so much with my upper back. Gym work also hurts my joints.

Are there any other options that I should consider? I want to skate 2x a week before the comp, but my sore muscles take 1 week to heal. Thanks.

[jjane45]

Does it happen to you EVERY skating practice?
How long is each practice and how many jumps do you attempt on average?
Do you warm up before skating? (NOT by stretching, but by jogging or jumping ropes)
Do you warm up on the ice? (many kids at my rink go directly into jumps on cold muscles)
Have you experienced soreness with other athletic activities before you picked up skating?

I see that your competition is in a month and half, but please do rest your body. You look young and athletic, honestly I'd be surprised if you experience the amount of soreness every time, not just overworking by accident this past session...

Just this past week group coach was talking about knowing where one's boundary is when it comes to flexibility. Lunge and spirals come to mind, do not push them too hard. (Says someone who once lost spiral on the good side for over a year due to split attempts on cold muscles...)

[sampaguita]

Thanks for replying, jjane!

The neck, shoulder and back muscles usually don't hurt -- unless I fall, or I jump a lot.  The glutes hurt if I do backward edges (and proper stroking).

Last time, I practiced jumps many times. My jumps have gotten a bit more aggressive than before, I guess my muscles just weren't up to it. But the LUNGE! and the spiral. Coach made me do both last time. I'm not sure what the spiral did, as I never really push it, but the lunge...*ouch* I've been trying hard to get those adductor muscles working, but the one time I tried to stretch my muscles (after a pretty good warm up), I overstretched and hurt my muscles.

I don't warm up off-ice (unless you count walking for 5 minutes as warm-up), but when I go on ice, I do stroking, turns, edges. I don't do jumps until 15-30 minutes into practice....now that you mention it, is that enough?

As for other activities:

1. Going to the gym also makes my muscles sore -- and all I do there is 15 minutes on the elliptical, and then lots of stretching...that's actually why I don't go to the gym anymore. I have to make sure my muscles are fine by skating day. (Hence, I only exercise 1 day a week).

2. Yoga used to make my muscles sore, mainly due to overstretching. I'm pretty sure that the muscles were all warmed up (it's part of the sequence, and I would be sweating by the time I get to the stretching part), but the yoga instructor wanted to push it further. She says pain is part of it.

3. In general, I do have a lot of aches and pains (despite being in my early 20's), but they never bothered me much until recently. Maybe it's because I spent much of my childhood in a sedentary manner (hated sports, but was very focused on academics). Skating is my first sport, and it has made my body more sensitive to itself, which is a good thing for skating -- except that it also made me more sensitive to those tight muscles.

[Purple Sparkly]

How long has this soreness been occurring?  How long do you skate for each session?  It should not take a week for muscle soreness to go away.  With your glutes hurting on stroking, that tells me you just don't have the strength in those muscles yet.  I've been skating for 20 years and I can't remember the last time my glutes were sore.  You should be able to skate more than one day in a row without soreness.

If you were sedentary for a long time and suddenly began to be physically active, your muscles may not be ready for it.  The elliptical is intense.  I have been in good shape for years and 20 minutes on the elliptical will make my legs sore.  Try 5 minutes on the elliptical and 10 minutes of leisure walking.  Do that a couple times a week to make sure you are not sore the next day.  Do it for a few weeks at that intensity before adding additional time.

Walking for five minutes could be enough to warm-up before skating.  You should also incorporate some dynamic stretching before you get on the ice.

It's great that your yoga instructor wants to push you, but ultimately you are the best person that knows if it is too much.  If it is stretching too much, back off to where it is just starting to get uncomfortable.

It is important to stretch in order to increase flexibility.  Make sure you are warmed-up well before stretching and don't overstretch.  Don't try to fold your body in half right away.  It takes months to get there, but if you don't stretch, you will lose flexibility fast.  Stretching routines DO work, but you have to stick to them and be sufficiently warmed-up.

It sounds like in general you should back off your exercise a little until your body gets more accustomed to it.  If it continues after a few months of a slightly less intense routine, you should see a doctor.

[icedancer]

It's great that your yoga instructor wants to push you, but ultimately you are the best person that knows if it is too much.  If it is stretching too much, back off to where it is just starting to get uncomfortable.

This is so true.  When I read your post saying your yoga teacher was working towards pain I thought NO THAT IS WRONG!!  Find another yoga teacher/situation.  There should not be pain involved.

Skating takes a tremendous amount of strength and if you have not exercised much you really do need to be more careful.  Even elite skaters limit themselves to how many jumps they do in a single session.

[supra]

Well I got the sore muscles out of my system from my beginner time skating in circles in hockey skates. I like lifting weights for skating (squats, deadlifts, and Olympic lifts) as they really strengthen your anaerobic capacity a lot, and putting a 200lb weight on your back and going down and up a few times makes skating seem like a comparatively easy activity (sorta, it's mentally quite tough.) Basically, muscle soreness is part of the game with any athletic activity. You break your muscles down and they rebuild into stronger muscles. So you either accept soreness now or stay home and get clogged arteries. Obviously there's a breakeven point, and different people have different inate capacities for stuff. For a weight training program, probably one of the better ones is Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" program, it's a good beginning program. As far as bulking up on it, most females can't gain a lot of muscle due to low testosterone levels, a male will usually struggle to put on about 10-15lbs of muscle a year, so a woman won't usually put on over 7-10.

Nutrition might be a bigger issue for you, too. Lots of women in my opinion really undereat, either because their appetites are naturally low, or because there's lots of concern with their aesthetics. Generally the recommended amount of protein for an athlete is about 1g per pound of lean body mass not per pound, but get your bodyfat measured, and let's say you're 20% at 110lbs, you need 88g a day. Protein isn't *everything* but protein is needed to rebuild the muscles to be stronger. You can rely on shakes and stuff for it, but it's better to try to get it from food and have 3 balanced meals a day. Also, you can possibly eat a bit more (don't go paleo/Atkins kinda crazy with this) fat in your diet, as your body needs saturated fat and cholesterol to make hormones, and Omega 3s are needed for brain health, and Omega 3s have a bonus of being anti-inflammatory. As far as calories go, you should probably have more. At my bodyweight, skating an hour supposedly burns 700 calories. So you do more cardio, you burn more calories, and if you're trying to lose weight, that's great and you gotta do what you gotta do, but at the same time, if you cannot perform how you want, then it's time to up the food intake. As a woman, you don't gotta go insane with this (as a guy I sorta kinda can) but you should have at least 2000 calories a day if you're skating that day.

As far as supplements, you can't rely on NSAIDs like ibuprofen/tylenol, that's a bad bad shortcut, as they're very liver toxic if used prolonged periods of time. Some people are insane and use them anyway everyday, but it's not good to rely on that. Fish oil is naturally anti-inflammatory, turmeric is too. You should be ideally taking a multivitamin, and possibly supplemental magnesium. Plantains and bananas are very good, as they contain potassium, and potassium helps your muscles not be sore, it's why Gatorade/etc has it, and other electrolytes. Lastly, creatine might be an OK option to supplement with, if you don't already have a lot of meat in your diet. Your muscles need creatine to fire, and it can only be synthesized from meat. Type II (fast twitch, ie, jumping) muscle fibers require creatine to fire, and Type I (slow twitch, ie, marathon running) are the ones that use glucose. So creatine, you pretty much don't need if you do eat a decent amount of meat, but if you don't eat meat or rarely eat it, it's an option. That's very generalized nutrition info, which is all I'm confident enough to give you.

Lastly, for cardio, if it's at all possible, just try to skate more and do less cardio on an eliptical/etc. Or, go for hikes or walks instead, as hikes and walks are much better emotionally (my opinion anyway) than an eliptical in a gym is. Again, you gotta do what you gotta do what you gotta do, and if your schedule doesn't permit walking/hiking/cycling or more skating, you can't do it, but yeah. One cardio exercise I recommend 1000% for skating is a slideboard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1gMXNO3iYE That's much much better than an eliptical machine for a general workout, and it uses almost all the same muscles as skating stroking. It's sweet. Your gym may not have one, but they're able to be bought online, or made if you're creative, using either some plastic, "hardboard" (wood panelling for walls) at home depot, or linoleum, and some boards for stoppers. Eventually once you get good at the slideboard, you can hold dumbells in your hands. I generally go on the slideboard for 3-5 minutes at a time, I'll put a song on my headphones and go from start to finish with the song. Take a short break, go back on again usually 5-10 times. I feel the slideboard is probably the best prep for skating muscles, even better than weights and machines (though I do love weights.) 

Lastly, as far as sore muscles go, it depends. Sore muscles aren't bad, but if you get sore tendons and ligaments, that's when you gotta back off. As long as your general day to day energy levels are good, then you're OK, assuming you can like, walk. The only really bad thing to worry about for overload is your adrenals really. That's an issue I have, I took the shortcut of consuming lots and lots of coffee/energy drinks to get through my daily life and workouts/skating. Now I can barely function without it, and my natural adrenal capacity is bad, as stimulants only trigger your adrenals on, your adrenals don't really naturally improve. This isn't just skating, but stressful life in general will do it. Also, it raises cortisol, then cortisol (at the wrong time/levels) pretty much makes you fat. Not fun. The problem is, it's not even athletic, it's more just stress in general that does it, if your life is stress free besides your athletic hobbies, then you're fine, but if your job or home situation is stressful, excess cortisol and adrenal fatigue are knocking at the door, and adding athletics to the equation can sometimes make things worse if the activity doesn't relax you/make you happy (skating probably relaxes you and makes you feel good, the eliptical machine probably does not.)

So that's my advice, as odd as some of it might sound.

[Sk8tmum]

I can't comment on what is causing it; it does seem a bit extreme. However, the best simple home remedy for sore muscles is soaking in an epsom salt bath.  It relieves the soreness very well, and is certainly a relatively inexpensive remedy. 

[PinkLaces]

When I have a heavy skate day, I usually take a warm bath before bed.  Well, I take it as hot as I can stand it.  That really seems to help with muscle soreness the next day.  Anything that the bath doesn't take care of I use a heating pad on for about 30 mins.  Also ibuprofen helps me if it's really really sore.

For the neck and shoulder soreness when jumping, do you hunch up your shoulders when you jump?  I do that sometimes and really feel it the next day.  Sometimes I don't even realize I'm doing it.  To combat that, I make sure I take a deep breath then roll my shoulders back and down between jumps.

[sampaguita]

Thanks for all the suggestions! (Especially supra, that was a comprehensive reply. ) I think there's one thing in common among all your replies, and that is to let my muscles adjust gradually. I'll keep it in mind for my next sessions.

I think PinkLaces is right: coach mentioned that my shoulders are hunched up when I jump, and I think that this, together with a not-so-strong core, increases the impact of the jump landing, and my neck, shoulders, and back are the ones which feel it. I am working again on the core exercises my PT gave me a year ago, and though my core muscles are not as bad pre-PT, I can now feel the exercises working so I think the core will need more work.

My lunge muscles are still sore, but not as bad as before.

supra: Thanks for telling me about the elliptical. When I was still doing weight training to strengthen my upper back (unfortunately, weights are too heavy for me, and my joints would hurt a lot after each session), the trainer told me that I needed to work on cardio for 30 minutes on the treadmill. But the treadmill is a bit hard for my knees so I do the elliptical instead (and decreased the time for 15 minutes). Now that you mention that that might be too much, I'll try going slower next time.

And that slideboard exercise looks very much like hockey stroking!

[jjane45]

To get sore quickly from proper stroking is normal if one focuses hard on toe point and turn out... Edge pulls also kill my stamina right away, I imagine it'll be soreness if I ignore body's warning signs...

Evil hunching haunts here too, how to fix that one?

[sampaguita]

Evil hunching haunts here too, how to fix that one?

PinkLaces said she takes a deep breath before (?) the jump. Nancy Kerrigan recommends the same.

[supra]

As far as adaptation, I think this is a good metaphor:

If you got a job as a garbage man and had to pick up heavy cans all day long, the first day would probably be very difficult, possibly almost impossible for some to complete. So what do you do, take three days off and possibly lose your job?

No, you'd take your sore, beaten self to work the next day. You'd mope around and be fatigued, much less energetic than the previous day, but you'd make yourself get through it. Then you'd get home, soak in the tub, take aspirin, etc. The next day would be even worse.

But eventually you'd be running down the street tossing cans around and joking with your coworkers. How did this happen? You forced your body to adapt to the job at hand! If you can't' squat and lift heavy every day you're not overtrained, you're undertrained! Could a random person off the street come to the gym with you and do your exact workout? Probably not, because they're undertrained. Same goes with most lifters when compared to elite athletes.

Mind you, the man who said it is an Olympic lifting coach who's had two athletes get in trouble for banned drugs, and he was coached by Antonio Krastev of Bulgaria (and we all know how much the Com-bloc people pushed their athletes) who gave him the ultimatum of "We either go to the gym or go to the hospital." So obviously you don't have to be as extreme as that, but the point remains, your body will adapt.

Regarding the childhood thing, I think that's kinda interesting you said that. As a kid I was VERY active, then as an adolescent, quite inactive (besides hiking/walking a bit) then for about a year or so when I was 16-17, I got heavily into cycling, but then I more or less stopped cycling when I moved, and skating picked me up when I was 20.  Obviously cycling makes your legs burn like hell, so skating making my legs burn like hell didn't phase me much.

[PinkLaces]

PinkLaces said she takes a deep breath before (?) the jump. Nancy Kerrigan recommends the same.

I actually take a big deep breath between jumps and roll my shoulders down and back.  Learned this during yoga this summer. If I have had a stressful day or there are too many kids on a session not looking, I hunch up my shoulders.  This deep breath plus rolling my shoulders back and down is a relaxation technique.  If I take a jump and I am all hunched up, then right after I will do this before attempting another jump.  I keep doing it if I am having a particularly stressful day/session.  I am trying to combat stress by coming to the rink early and doing off ice warm-up.

I also have a problem with holding my breath during jump combos/sequences.  I take a deep breath and let it out before the 3 turn or mohawk entry of the first jump.  That seems to help a lot.  It also combats hunching up the shoulders while holding my breath on jumps.

[Doubletoe]

I would recommend going to a gym 2-3 times a week and doing VERY LIGHT weights for 12-15 repetitions, for every muscle group.  Have someone at the gym put a routine together for you.  The important thing is to use VERY LIGHT weights that you can comfortably do for 12 repetitions, and just start straining as you approach 15 reps.  Don't move up in the weights until 15 reps feels too easy, and then, just move up a few pounds at a time.  Pushing to make progress too fast will only bite you in the butt.

Stretch after you exercise, every time you exercise.  The important thing is to use correct form and to hold each position for 30 seconds (not counting "1-2-3-4. . ."  but "1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi, 3-Mississippi, 4-Mississippi. . .").  What position should you hold for 30 seconds?  Hold the position where you feel a stretch, but don't feel pain or like you're forcing it.  This is how you *permanently* lengthen the muscles, and yes, it will take awhile, but it will take longer if you overstretch and create scar tissue in the muscle!

Finally, are you staying hydrated?  You should be sipping water or an electrolyte drink constantly before, during and after your workout.  Potassium is important for preventing muscle cramps, so have a banana or some orange juice.

[AgnesNitt]

My muscles are sore after skating (especially if I do the lunge). Even the jumps which I think are painless (if you don't fall) seem to be affecting my neck, shoulder and back muscles. My left anterior hip and adductor muscles are sore right now, and I can neither stretch nor skate.

I tried having a stretching routine once but it doesn't work. Seems that my muscles are too tight that I have lots of trigger points. I did have some success with tennis ball therapy for my glutes, but not so much with my upper back. Gym work also hurts my joints.

Are there any other options that I should consider? I want to skate 2x a week before the comp, but my sore muscles take 1 week to heal. Thanks.

My suggestion is to take Advil BEFORE you skate.
Here's how I do it. 1 Advil 1 hour before, 1 Advil immediately before.

I think this is called prophylactic pain management. In other words, you use an anti-inflamatory before you hose up your muscles and the inflammation doesn't occur.

Also use it before horseback riding, hiking, climbing kayaking etc if you don't do it on a regular basis.

[supra]

My suggestion is to take Advil BEFORE you skate.
Here's how I do it. 1 Advil 1 hour before, 1 Advil immediately before.

I think this is called prophylactic pain management. In other words, you use an anti-inflamatory before you hose up your muscles and the inflammation doesn't occur.

Also use it before horseback riding, hiking, climbing kayaking etc if you don't do it on a regular basis.

I'd say it's better to not take the stuff if you can. It's liver toxic, especially if used regularly. It's better to just acquaint your body with the pain. Me personally, I can be sore from working out and get on the ice, and after you're on for 5-10 minutes, you'll stop feeling the old pains. Your body releases endorphins and hormones to numb the pain. So taking ibuprofen, if you really need it, you need it, but I'd say in most cases, it's better to just not take it, and reserve it only for the worst pains.

[FigureSpins]

I'd say it's better to not take the stuff if you can. It's liver toxic, especially if used regularly. It's better to just acquaint your body with the pain. Me personally, I can be sore from working out and get on the ice, and after you're on for 5-10 minutes, you'll stop feeling the old pains. Your body releases endorphins and hormones to numb the pain. So taking ibuprofen, if you really need it, you need it, but I'd say in most cases, it's better to just not take it, and reserve it only for the worst pains.

That's not the current recommendations for chronic inflammation problems, such as the OP describes.  In fact, if you do have an injury, sports medicine experts recommend staying on the anti-inflammatories for a full 48 hours after injury.  Compression garments/dressings also help prevent inflammation, as does applying ice.


Guess how I came down with tendonitis?  Ignoring the pain and not taking anti-inflammatories.  I stay well within the recommended dosage and my ankle's getting better. The prescribed treatment is more or less what Agnes describes:

. Ibuprofin before skating
. Ankle wrap with sleeve or sports tape
. Ice the ankle after skating for 1 hour, off and on
. Another dose of ibuprofen 4 hours later
. Wrap the ankle or wear a brace/sneakers to keep it stable off-ice.

[supra]

I don't care, do what you want.

[AgnesNitt]

I have been asked by Rinkguard and Isk8NYC to edit my post regarding toxicity. I will now do so.



"Toxic effects are unlikely at doses below 100 mg/kg, but can be severe above 400 mg/kg (around 150 tablets of 200 mg units for an average man)"

The dosage I take is once single tablet of 200 mg followed an hour later by another 200 mg tablet.  Thus, a single tablet represents a dosage of 2.7mg/kg. 

So, dosing as directed on the container, is well, well below any toxicity level.  There are limits to the recommended number of days to take Advil.

[Isk8NYC]

*much appreciated*

[jjane45]

I would recommend going to a gym 2-3 times a week and doing VERY LIGHT weights for 12-15 repetitions, for every muscle group.  Have someone at the gym put a routine together for you... Stretch after you exercise, every time you exercise.  The important thing is to use correct form and to hold each position for 30 second... Finally, are you staying hydrated? 

Very nice tips all around, Doubletoe! Sounds like I should really do something like this.

[JSM]

That's not the current recommendations for chronic inflammation problems, such as the OP describes.  In fact, if you do have an injury, sports medicine experts recommend staying on the anti-inflammatories for a full 48 hours after injury.  Compression garments/dressings also help prevent inflammation, as does applying ice.


Guess how I came down with tendonitis?  Ignoring the pain and not taking anti-inflammatories.  I stay well within the recommended dosage and my ankle's getting better. The prescribed treatment is more or less what Agnes describes:

. Ibuprofin before skating
. Ankle wrap with sleeve or sports tape
. Ice the ankle after skating for 1 hour, off and on
. Another dose of ibuprofen 4 hours later
. Wrap the ankle or wear a brace/sneakers to keep it stable off-ice.

This is good news - I've been having some muscle issues and pain, and the orthopedic resident reprimanded me for taking ibuprofen before practice (I stretch and ice as well, but he didn't like my preventative approach with the meds).  He told me not to take it until after I was finished, because I might push myself too hard if I couldn't feel the pain.  Well, yeah, that's a possibility, but if I don't take it I can't jump, so...

The things we go through to skate!