You are viewing as a Guest.

Welcome to skatingforums - over 10 years of figure skating discussions for skaters, coaches, judges and parents!

Please register to be able to access all features of this message board.

Author Topic: Notebook instead of app  (Read 665 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Query

  • Gliding in the "Altitude" Position
  • ******
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Posts: 2,771
  • Total GOE: 97
  • Gender: Male
    • mgrunes.com
Notebook instead of app
« on: July 19, 2017, 02:45:55 PM »
There have been several posts about tracking your progress, for yourself or your coach, using an app.

I guess the idea of using a small notebook is too out of date? But it is smaller and lighter than a phone, and doesn't need WiFi. In addition, it doesn't tempt you to waste time sending messages to people.

Incidentally, when a certain coach was charged with having an inappropriate relationship with a competitive skating student, one of the pieces of evidence was that there many electronic messages exchanged between them.

Online Jf12

  • Beware the Bars of Death!
  • *
  • Joined: Jun 2015
  • Posts: 55
  • Total GOE: 1
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 05:45:25 PM »
Wouldn't you want to have as much evidence as possible if that was going on??

Offline AgnesNitt

  • Asynchronous Skating Team Leader
  • ********
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: East o' the sun; and west o' the moon
  • Posts: 4,893
  • Total GOE: 495
  • Gender: Female
    • The ice doesn't care
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 10:42:09 PM »
I've tried notebooks and apps. The problem isn't the tool, it's my inability to write stuff down. When I get off the ice, I've got to get in the car and go home. Traffic is so bad, it sometimes takes 2 hours. I can't afford the time. And when I get home, I've got stuff to do (get readyfor work, or go to Mass)
Yes I'm in with the 90's. I have a skating blog. http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/

Online davincisop

  • Alex, I'd like to buy an axel…
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1,554
  • Total GOE: 71
  • Gender: Female
  • 2017 Goal: Pass Bronze Dances
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2017, 07:22:05 AM »
I use a small half-size binder for my notes and such. I have all the patterns I need printed in there so I can jot down notes galore on them (you should see my hickory hoedown page...).

I prefer it to having a digital copy any day because all my stuff is right there.


Here's the patterns should anyone want them. They are formatted for a half-size binder, which I found at Target. They also sell half sized lined notebook paper for it, too.

MITF: https://www.dropbox.com/s/k88bohs5v47kcde/MITF.pdf?dl=0
PDF includes standard, adult, and dance. :)

Also an editable practice checklist:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kzeziqvssd6rkne/practice-lettersize-EDITABLE.pdf?dl=0
 

Offline Query

  • Gliding in the "Altitude" Position
  • ******
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Posts: 2,771
  • Total GOE: 97
  • Gender: Male
    • mgrunes.com
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 02:23:43 PM »
Wouldn't you want to have as much evidence as possible if that was going on??

I was thinking about it from the coach's end - there are a lot of opportunistic lawyers out there who manufacture false claims.  And a lot of potential jury members who don't realize just how much communication is necessary for an elite level athlete. Plus, any ordinary person, including jury members, is going to be inclined to believe a child who claims abuse over an adult who is accused of abuse. I assume that most of the time that inclination is correct - but almost any coach deals with a lot of students, so some care is needed. That's a substantial part of what "Safesport" is all about - insuring that you as a coach are provably innocent, because you only interact with the student in the presence of other background-checked adults. Something you can't do in this type of communication.

I was on the jury in a civil trial where the plaintiff's lawyer kept very obviously manufacturing evidence - including deliberately misquoting what the defending party had said in court right in front of us. Pretty much the whole jury ended up believing the accusing lawyer. Both parties were obviously lying about some things. I wound up concluding that most U.S. civil court trials are decided wrong, because the honest party probably doesn't manufacture evidence, and because plaintiff's lawyers usually have the opportunity to make more money, because they often work on a percentage of the take. (In U.S. civil trials, as the plaintiff's lawyer explained it, cases are supposed to be decided on the basis of a "preponderance of evidence", using "the 51% rule", which I guess means that the side that manufactures fake evidence will generally win. I wonder if the same thing is true in countries like Britain, where there are trained professional jurors...)

And a lot of elite skaters and their parents who get very upset when their kid doesn't turn out to be Olympic material. Apparently, it isn't actually possible to figure out years in advance, who is going to reach the very highest levels (e.g., Davis and White weren't favored to reach close to the top until shortly before they made it to the Olympics, and the same is true of a number of other Olympic skaters) - so a lot of elite coaches honestly tell some of their students they have the potential to be the best in the world. The students and their parents put in a tremendous amount of time and money into the sport, and the students do a lot of damage to their bodies pushing them to their limits, but most of those kids don't make it to the top, for one reason or another.

Sure, from the skating parent's end, evidence is a good thing. But a "smart" abusive coach would avoid leaving traceable evidence. OTOH, from what I understand, if a conscientious non-abusive elite level coach is doing his or her job, they often communicate with their elite level students a few times a day, giving encouragement, helping through various problems, etc. (For starters, they are probably giving at least one lesson with that student most days.) Just like a serious mentor in other fields - e.g., a thesis adviser might do that too. But leaving evidence of this, and providing too easy an opportunity for extra communications, leaves a situation an unscrupulous lawyer can take advantage.

Maybe none of this applies to non-elite level coaches. But who else would need such frequent communications as an app would produce? Many of the lower end coaches I know feel a need to limit the amount of unpaid communication with parents, who can be very demanding of a coach's time. I suspect most coaches of lower level athletes in other sports feel some need to limit the amount of unpaid interaction time too.

In terms of detecting abuse, I think that from the parent's end, talking to the kid and watching their interaction with the coach(es) makes the most sense. But I've never been a parent, and maybe don't understand how difficult abuse is to detect.


Offline Nate

  • BladeLock
  • On the Edge
  • ***
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 578
  • Total GOE: 11
  • #AdultSkate
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 12:41:24 PM »
I use mostly digital tools to track things. I use Apple Note and OneNote, and have an Excel Spreadsheet to track some stuff. I also take a lot of video to analyze. It's how I make the majority of my adjustments. Can always voice record notes if there is little time to write/type, as well.

Apps like Dartfish Express and Coach's Eye are a godsend, as well.

For warm up and Off Ice I use the USOC Train Like an Olympian plan for figure skaters, and modify a warm up plan given to me by my first coach (just increased the level of elements as I got better).

Offline Doubletoe

  • Quintuple Salflutzchow
  • ****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1,225
  • Total GOE: 135
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 01:24:31 PM »
I've tried notebooks and apps. The problem isn't the tool, it's my inability to write stuff down. When I get off the ice, I've got to get in the car and go home. Traffic is so bad, it sometimes takes 2 hours. I can't afford the time. And when I get home, I've got stuff to do (get readyfor work, or go to Mass)

Sounds like you could use a Notes app that takes dictation! :)

Offline lutefisk

  • Blade Runner
  • ***
  • Joined: Feb 2012
  • Location: Maryland
  • Posts: 541
  • Total GOE: 142
  • Gender: Male
    • On Thin Ice
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 02:29:10 PM »
I used to carefully write stuff down after each lesson and then try to figure out WTH I was attempting to document a few days later during a coach-less practice session.  Lately instead of that, I find that having my coach demo a given set of dance steps or an element that I'm struggling with while I take a short video of her with my little celery phone is better for me than written words--regardless of whether the format is good old paper or some devish app.  This might also work for others who relate better to visual cues than self generated verbosity.  Sometimes a picture IS worth a 1000 words.

Offline AgnesNitt

  • Asynchronous Skating Team Leader
  • ********
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: East o' the sun; and west o' the moon
  • Posts: 4,893
  • Total GOE: 495
  • Gender: Female
    • The ice doesn't care
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 03:31:20 PM »
'celery phone'?
Yes I'm in with the 90's. I have a skating blog. http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/

Offline lutefisk

  • Blade Runner
  • ***
  • Joined: Feb 2012
  • Location: Maryland
  • Posts: 541
  • Total GOE: 142
  • Gender: Male
    • On Thin Ice
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 05:35:23 PM »
Did I mention I have a celery phone?  A steam powered celery phone, actually.  Finest kind.

Offline Doubletoe

  • Quintuple Salflutzchow
  • ****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1,225
  • Total GOE: 135
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 05:15:09 PM »
I used to carefully write stuff down after each lesson and then try to figure out WTH I was attempting to document a few days later during a coach-less practice session.  Lately instead of that, I find that having my coach demo a given set of dance steps or an element that I'm struggling with while I take a short video of her with my little celery phone is better for me than written words--regardless of whether the format is good old paper or some devish app.  This might also work for others who relate better to visual cues than self generated verbosity.  Sometimes a picture IS worth a 1000 words.
That's exactly what I do when my coach is giving me new choreography (although I have an iPhone.  Must check out the celery phone!).  If I watch the video over and over later, I can figure out exactly what each part of my coach's body is doing and get it down before our next lesson instead of wasting lesson time trying to master it.  But when it comes to technical corrections on jumps and spins, i need to remember what to feel or think while doing the element, so video doesn't work very well.  I write it down.  And sometimes I even remember to look at it the next time I skate.  Sometimes. ;)

Offline lutefisk

  • Blade Runner
  • ***
  • Joined: Feb 2012
  • Location: Maryland
  • Posts: 541
  • Total GOE: 142
  • Gender: Male
    • On Thin Ice
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 08:10:02 AM »
That's exactly what I do when my coach is giving me new choreography (although I have an iPhone.  Must check out the celery phone!).

A lot of folks like to plug in their iPhones to a rink outlet to keep the battery charged and the electrons flowing.  I just feed my celery phone a steady diet of stir-fried Morse code.  It thrives on the stuff and the videos are quite remarkable.

Offline sk8lady

  • Silver Streak
  • Blade Runner
  • ***
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 536
  • Total GOE: 100
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 07:27:46 PM »
I was thinking about it from the coach's end - there are a lot of opportunistic lawyers out there who manufacture false claims.  And a lot of potential jury members who don't realize just how much communication is necessary for an elite level athlete. Plus, any ordinary person, including jury members, is going to be inclined to believe a child who claims abuse over an adult who is accused of abuse. I assume that most of the time that inclination is correct - but almost any coach deals with a lot of students, so some care is needed. That's a substantial part of what "Safesport" is all about - insuring that you as a coach are provably innocent, because you only interact with the student in the presence of other background-checked adults. Something you can't do in this type of communication...

Sure, from the skating parent's end, evidence is a good thing. But a "smart" abusive coach would avoid leaving traceable evidence...

In terms of detecting abuse, I think that from the parent's end, talking to the kid and watching their interaction with the coach(es) makes the most sense. But I've never been a parent, and maybe don't understand how difficult abuse is to detect.

As a former prosecutor of child abuse and sexual assault who has also been a public defender and a Guardian ad Litem (representing the best interests of child victims of abuse and neglect) over a total of 32 years, I feel that I ought to comment that virtually everything in your post is incorrect! I can't even begin to correct all the erroneous comments related to the law in your post and I'm not going to try.

Having reviewed the Safesport regulations, I also can't imagine where you got your ideas about what the purpose of Safesport is. It's pretty clearly to protect athletes from intentional and unintentional abuse from anyone involved in sport, and secondarily to protect the sport from the kind of scandals that recently occurred in USA Gymnastics.

Being a juror is a fascinating experience, but it will not make you a legal expert.

I do, however, make notes about my lessons as soon as I get off the ice. Takes me about 7 minutes and keeps me working on the right issues.

Offline Query

  • Gliding in the "Altitude" Position
  • ******
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Posts: 2,771
  • Total GOE: 97
  • Gender: Male
    • mgrunes.com
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 05:29:38 PM »
I prefer to reply privately.

But, basically, I would claim that in a sue-happy country like the U.S., it is impossible to distinguish the rules intended to protect victims, from the rules designed to protect against successful legal suit by alleged victims.

USFSA Safesport rules serve to protect potential victims, but they also serve to protect coaches, rinks, clubs, and the USFSA - all of whom the USFSA buys insurance to protect.

Offline Isk8NYC

  • Administrator
  • Asynchronous Skating Team Leader
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: At the rink, where else?
  • Posts: 4,313
  • Total GOE: 131
  • Gender: Female
    • Ten Years of Figure Skating Discussions!
Re: Notebook instead of app
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 09:33:41 AM »
Mod note: We're done here.  Thread closed.
-- Isk8NYC --
"I like to skate on the other side of the ice." - Comedian Steven Wright