skatingforums
On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: Meli on November 29, 2016, 03:14:02 PM
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Anyone else driven nuts by the assumption that you're a lady or gentleman of leisure? (No offense to those that have more flexible schedules, but I still have to show up for that whole earn a paycheck thing... not old enough to retire and no hubby to buy me pretty shoes.)
Have been trying to line up a new coach. Very delayed response from skating director who was out on medical leave (not holding that against him). Without asking about my preferences, he told me the 11:30am sessions would be quiet for me to do lessons on.
Um. J-O-B. Trust me, I'd love a luxurious semi-private session on the ice, but it just ain't happening.
He also seemed perplexed by the USFSA adult levels, so I'm hoping whomever calls me (he's giving my number to two coaches) is more informed. He's also wanting me to try dance... and has a coach that's free all day. Which is great... except I'm not.
Sometimes it's just hard to juggle the sport and the job that pays for said sport.
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I've been told how as an adult I can choose my coach and choose my lesson time. Errr, it doesn't work like that. When you work full time, your lesson time is always going to be at a ridiculously early time (at least at my rink there's no evening freestyles) and you get the coach which is available and is prepared to make time for an adult as the time you want to have lessons is peak slot for all the children.
So yes, completely have a choice in terms of having a lesson and a coach. It's take it or leave it.
Oh how I wish I could have the options that the non-working and part-time working adult skaters have.
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I do the majority of my skating during working hours. Though I'm often still working at 11pm to get stuff done. And I work at least some of every day, including weekends, xmess etc. But the flexibility of being a contractor is very nice. (At least it is until you have to chase up your unpaid bills) Ah!, living The Life of Riley indeed.
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There is definitely a trade-off when you can make your own hours and work for yourself like I do - I can skate during the day and that is great but then there is that whole thing that you face at the end of the month where you realize that you have JUST enough money for your mortgage payment which is due in two days... and then of course there is the buying of your health insurance...
It is something that I have chosen, partly for skating... but it is not perfect for sure!!
My thing is that a lot of the adult skaters who are my friends are now retired or have never worked - it is all leisure time - and they seem to have unlimited funds for unlimited lessons. I am always having to say, "Well, I can't ... I work" (and I can't afford all of those lessons either due to aforementioned mortgage and health-insurance payments...)
Carving out time for yourself is important though.
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I haven't had a coach for a long time for this particular reason. No coach is available during the time that I am free. There are a few coaches here who are available for a single lesson at a time, but they are very expensive. So...I try to save up for those lessons instead.
I was very lucky to have had a year off where I took up skating under a really good coach. Very expensive, but worth every penny. Since then, I've been skating on my own, using what I learned from him to improve my skills.
I don't have Olympic goals, and for me, skating is my weekly exercise. When I get the time and the money, I get a lesson. Unfortunately, regular lessons are not possible for me.
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While I do think this directly affects you in lessons, I've also wondered about this in regards to working parents. Our LTS programs are at night but once you want to do more practicing or are looking for freestyle ice, it's early morning or right after school. Which can be really hard to manage until your kid drives. I'm lucky with a flexible job in this regard but I do wonder about it sometimes. And I did a freestyle in pass in November and really liked early morning ice (wasn't sure I would) but in December that ice time is changing to 8:45-10:45 a.m. Which doesn't really work :(
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Until my accident, I had planned on retiring this November from the job that pays the bills, and teaching skiing 4 days a week rather than 2 (on weekends) and taking private skate lessons starting in the spring . After 5 trips on the ice and 1 on the snow I know that 4 days a week on the snow would not have worked so I am content with my decision to defer retirement for a year. However I am looking forward to the day when I can skate on almost deserted ice at 9:00-10:00 AM and start private lessons. I am going to limit myself to 2 days on the ice rather than 3 as in the past during ski season this year.
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So... a man of leisure!
Watch out! Someone may try to make you into an ice-dancer! (Just joking - it's true - and it's fun - and do-able!!)
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Retirement...I'll be a man of leisure in 212 days. I'll have the time, but not the treasure.
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I am in fact a man of leisure. Retired.
I skate only publics 10 to 12 AM. Started skating 6 or so years ago in winter seasons. Having read about hassles with coaches and the politics involved, in this forum, even before I joined, I never hired any. Self instruction for what it is worth. Many falls and years later, I truly enjoy skating.
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You just can't expect skating coaches to relate to a typical office job schedule, since they've never had one and most of their students (and their moms who are available to drive them to the rink) don't either. It's just not a part of their reality.
For 9 years I skated the 6:30am freestyle session before work. Finally, I asked my boss if I could come in early and leave late a few times a week and take a 3-hour lunch on those days to skate. He had no problem with it. I instantly wished I'd asked 9 years earlier, LOL!
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I'm thinking of retiring in July. Before I turn 66.
I'm scoping out the cheap freestyle sessions already.
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My coach works full time at an office job, so she Gets It. I am so glad.
The Christmas show director attempted to schedule rehearsals for the adult group number at 4 PM on Tuesdays. Presumably when she got absolutely no one to sign up, she came to her senses and moved rehearsals to Saturday mornings.
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I'm surprised that your figure skating director is so involved in choosing your coach. A figure skating director might only recommend coaches who have few students, and maybe aren't very good at teaching.
If ice dance appeals to you, that's fine. If it only appeals to the figure skating director to have you dance, and not you, it's not.
Can you ask the good skaters, especially adults, who their coach is, and get contact info from the students? For that matter, a lot of those good skaters are also coaches. Some of them are good at it. Even the good skaters who happen to be teenagers have to have more self discipline and attention to detail than most teenagers. That doesn't necessarily mean they are good at teaching you, but they might be. Of course you may have to teach any coach how to teach you - e.g., you may want more words, more demos, more complete demos, more repetition, "show me", "move my body", "explain", etc.
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I'm thinking of retiring in July. Before I turn 66.
I'm scoping out the cheap freestyle sessions already.
If rinks by you have weekday morn public sessions, you may find that they'll do just fine. In my area, as long as school is in session, ~10 skaters is a "crowded" session; ~4-6 is "typical". Summers and school holidays are a different story.
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If rinks by you have weekday morn public sessions, you may find that they'll do just fine. In my area, as long as school is in session, ~10 skaters is a "crowded" session; ~4-6 is "typical". Summers and school holidays are a different story.
It's hard to tell locally. We have a lot of skaters on freestyle. I'm looking at the $10 an hour vs $18 an hour freestyle. I've skated at both, the population seems much the same at about 10-15.
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Does your rink have group lessons for freestyle, power? When I started back a few years ago, our rink had such lessons and also had alot of coaches. So, I used those classes to get back into skating, but also to figure out which coach worked the best with me as a coach and my schedule. Because, while there were many coaches, not all of them coach were available when I needed to skate.
You'll make it work. I've done skating as a skater with a demanding, inflexible job, as a mom with a flexible job, and now as a lady of leisure with a family. It was easier the first way, because I could skate in the morning, just had me to think about, and it was easier. The most tiring was juggling job, family, and skating. But, then skating became very special. It was a place where the rest of the world couldn't reach me. An hour of peace & quiet on the ice.
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If rinks by you have weekday morn public sessions, you may find that they'll do just fine. In my area, as long as school is in session, ~10 skaters is a "crowded" session; ~4-6 is "typical". Summers and school holidays are a different story.
At my favorite rink morning are like a private rink. Occasionally 2 or 3 of us. School days out 30 to 40. I use those days to hone my proximity detection skills.
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So... a man of leisure!
Watch out! Someone may try to make you into an ice-dancer! (Just joking - it's true - and it's fun - and do-able!!)
My wife have been watching the Grand Prix events and I have really started to enjoy ice dance. I may pursue it once I get more comfortable on spins and learn to twizzle. I want to learn some of the jumps but have to be realistic that at 62 learning jumps should not be a priority. I have already started focusing more on "figures" as a challenge. I am sure that as one of the few adult male skaters at the rink I will have no shortage of partners once I am a good enough skater to be a safe and competent dance partner myself.
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My wife have been watching the Grand Prix events and I have really started to enjoy ice dance. I may pursue it once I get more comfortable on spins and learn to twizzle. I want to learn some of the jumps but have to be realistic that at 62 learning jumps should not be a priority. I have already started focusing more on "figures" as a challenge. I am sure that as one of the few adult male skaters at the rink I will have no shortage of partners once I am a good enough skater to be a safe and competent dance partner myself.
You don't need spins or twizzles for the beginning ice dances. Don't even have to do any backwards skating. This is a good thing--just remembering the steps, getting deep edges, clean progressives and decent extension of the free leg is plenty enough on my plate! Not to mention keeping in time with the music and the added complication of skating with a partner. BTW: I'll turn 70 later this month. I'm still working. If I don't like my job by the time I hit 75, well damn it, I'll just quit.
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You don't need spins or twizzles for the beginning ice dances.
True, but the twizzles are the second best part (after lifts).
I actually cannot think of any pattern dances where the man has a twizzle.
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True, but the twizzles are the second best part (after lifts).
I actually cannot think of any pattern dances where the man has a twizzle.
There is the Dutch twizzle waltz
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The Dutch Twizzle waltz! Yes I have seen this one done by very high-level skaters! Makes a dance which is a bit of a durge more fun.
There are no twizzles in ice-dance until the Argentine Tango (a Gold dance) for the lady. And it's not really a twizzle at all.
For the man in ice-dance there is nothing remotely difficult until you get to the Counter in the Silver Tango (Silver level dance) - no offense to the men ice-dancers on the forum but really... can you think of one hard step? The lady's steps get hard starting with maybe the Hickory Hoedown or Willow Waltz - the 3-turns...
But dance is fun - and no lifts either! In the compulsories... although I used to get quite a lift from my rocker in the Rocker Foxtrot when I would jump it...
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I'm surprised that your figure skating director is so involved in choosing your coach. A figure skating director might only recommend coaches who have few students, and maybe aren't very good at teaching.
If ice dance appeals to you, that's fine. If it only appeals to the figure skating director to have you dance, and not you, it's not.
Can you ask the good skaters, especially adults, who their coach is, and get contact info from the students? For that matter, a lot of those good skaters are also coaches. Some of them are good at it. Even the good skaters who happen to be teenagers have to have more self discipline and attention to detail than most teenagers. That doesn't necessarily mean they are good at teaching you, but they might be. Of course you may have to teach any coach how to teach you - e.g., you may want more words, more demos, more complete demos, more repetition, "show me", "move my body", "explain", etc.
I went to the skating director to find out who is even willing to consider an adult... at my old rinks, there were coaches that had tons of adults, and those that wouldn't spray snow on us if we were on fire. Needless to say, I don't want to call 10 people if there are only 2 that are willing... and I haven't found the adult or advanced skaters yet, due to staying on publics because of scheduling limitations. Unfortunately, the rink I like the most only does ISI and is a bit quirky, so it doesn't help the cause on the testing side of things.
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I was (at first) delighted to find the men's steps for the (Olympic level) Ravensburger Waltz contained no twizzles, no backwards 3 at all, not even any RFO3s. Hardly any backwards edges even. The only even slightly tricky bits for me were the LFI OpMo, and a XB-LFIO (and of course my forever wayward LFO3s - but few other people have any issue with those, so I'll chalk that up to my unique uselessness), but even these things were easy to learn in the grand scheme of things.
You in fact only need: Forwards edges, Backwards outside edges, RFI3, LFO3, L&R forward outside chasses, LFI OpMo & XB-LFIO.
It's almost like they specifically designed it to be able to get the guys up to scratch fast. Which is pretty smart.
The trick is of course making it all happen cleanly at ridiculously high tempos, with deep edges, and then I imagine adding a partner ramps it all up by an order of magnitude.
I guess it's a bit like dancing. Everyone can trivially do the steps one at a time, or even strung together at quarter speed. But not everyone can dance, especially when the tempos get up. And few can make it look and feel good. Therein lies the challenge.
Of course if you like technical challenge, I understand that in solo dance, the guys are expected to do the ladies steps too? In which case the likes of the RW become frighteningly tricky.
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In solo dance the man is just expected to do the man's steps. I have seen in competition where the man did one pattern of the man's steps and one pattern of the lady's steps - just to show they could do it - I think one of the women in that competition did that also. I think it was the Westminster Waltz.
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That's how it is in roller dance, I mistakenly assumed ice dance was the same. Sorry, my bad.
From the 2016 FIRS Artistic Rule Book:
9.01.01 For Compulsory Dances lady’s steps will be used.
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I actually cannot think of any pattern dances where the man has a twizzle.
I think the man does twizzles in the Finnstep. Your coach will know.
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It never occurred to me that people who design dance patterns would deliberately take it easy on the guys... Though I was taught that the guy's main role, as in any couple dance, is to make the lady look good.
I don't get "solo dance". A contradiction in terms, like a romance of one. What distinguishes any good couple dance is relationship and unison.
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I don't get "solo dance". A contradiction in terms, like a romance of one. What distinguishes any good couple dance is relationship and unison.
I've heard it said that: "Dance is a vertical expression of a horizontal desire" ::>) "Solo Tango" is perhaps the epitome of that. A bit like fishing without the fish ;) Sure you can do it, but it's missing something fundamental to the whole enterprise.
Having said all that sometimes you don't want to catch anything, it just feels good to move to music. I used to do (partnered) swing dancing for a few years, and in the end I gave it up primarily because I couldn't face partner dancing anymore. It felt like I was advertising something I wasn't selling... I still love dancing in private though, just because it feels good.
My skating IS a romance of two however. i.e. Between me and physics. They say you're in love when all the love songs you hear seem to be all about you. And that's true for me. It's just a pity that physics is just not that into me ;) However, I have 99 ways....
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Part of what I was trying to say is that, for the most part, none of the moves in the pattern dances are individually all that difficult - men's or lady's parts. That's not the point.
Sure, getting a consistent and correct ice tracing is hard. Good style is hard.
But the really hard part has always been moving with someone. When someone does a blind turn into closed position, and the partner is right there where they have to be at precisely the right time for the joining to be perfect, that shows real mastery. When your feet step over each other in just the right positions, and no one trips or stumbles over the other, or two people move at exactly the same time, in matched position and style, even that shows some mastery.
Dance isn't difficult moves or a "romance" with physics. It's togetherness.
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I don't get "solo dance". A contradiction in terms, like a romance of one. What distinguishes any good couple dance is relationship and unison.
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There are forms of off-ice dancing that are traditionally performed as solo expressions. Tap dancing comes to mind--done as often without a pardner as with. Then there's saber dancing. At the other end of the spectrum there's step dancing with large groups of people--River Dance is an example--sort of the "synchro" of dry land dance. Why would the movements of ice dance be immune from solo interpretation?
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Dance isn't difficult moves or a "romance" with physics. It's togetherness.
I don't think the common definition of the word "dance" excludes solo dancing. Not many people (apart from those who wish to creatively redefine the word), would deny that this is dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAwjqRAXMXQ&list=RDEpiXAg1sd28&index=2
You are right about it being about "togetherness". i.e. Togetherness with the music
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I think the solo dance track in figure skating was created just to fill in the gaps in areas where there are no available partners and a way to keep people ice-dancing!
And then solo free-dance evolved from that and then there were competitions for people that excel at solo dance.
Just FYI
And as a skater who has done ice-dance most of my skating career it is important to be able to do the dances solo. There are just not enough partners to go around. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that unless they have a dedicated partner there is no reason to learn dance. Learning dance will teach you more about skating than you knew possible and there is a whole world of social dance (less and less all the time, but there are dance weekends and get-togethers around the country and the world) - out there.
It is fun and it is do-able. Dance!
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I don't think the common definition of the word "dance" excludes solo dancing. Not many people (apart from those who wish to creatively redefine the word), would deny that this is dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAwjqRAXMXQ&list=RDEpiXAg1sd28&index=2
You are right about it being about "togetherness". i.e. Togetherness with the music
Absolutely agree. One of my favorite TV shows is So You Think You Can Dance, which celebrates dance in all its combinations (solo, pairs, group) and forms (ballet, ballroom, tap, hip-hop, contemporary, .....). Solo dancing is definitely not an oxymoron.
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I don't think the common definition of the word "dance" excludes solo dancing. Not many people (apart from those who wish to creatively redefine the word), would deny that this is dance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAwjqRAXMXQ&list=RDEpiXAg1sd28&index=2
You are right about it being about "togetherness". i.e. Togetherness with the music
Thanks for linking to my very favorite dancers Ksenia and Sharon. A pleasant find in this forum, and yes she and SHaron most cerainly are fantastic dancers.
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Thanks for linking to my very favorite dancers Ksenia and Sharon. A pleasant find in this forum.
I'm very fond of some Carolina Shag dancers too, notably:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l5pczCZw04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2MMLaSOXzE
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I'm very fond of some Carolina Shag dancers too, notably:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l5pczCZw04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2MMLaSOXzE
I grew up in the mountains of North Carolina and spent every summer in my teens at Myrtle Beach but I never cared for or learned to shag. I did enjoy clogging though.
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Of course you guys left out solo burlesque as the likely historic basis to solo dance... Could one pass a pattern dressed and styled a la burlesque? :)
In most solo dance, the steps are intricate and difficult, performed to a sophisticated or sultry rhythm.
But Ice Pattern Dance came out of the Ballroom tradition. You have simple turns and steps, performed in simplified rhythm - things that even I, at preliminary test level, can do, though I have trouble checking some of the turns, particularly in sequence. Pretty much everything really fancy in Ice Pattern Dance, like Ballroom, requires a partner. So I will never will "get" solo ice dance.
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The trouble I see with ice dance is exactly that ballroom heritage. It does well for waltzes and marches and passably OK for foxtrots.
But the moment they tried to extend it to anything else, e.g. tangos, "swing" dancing, quickstep, blues, anything at all latin etc (or god forbid even disco). It starts bearing little resemblance to the actual dance and they all look like generic "ice dance" style. It's like a ballroom dancer designed the dances exactly from a detailed book description of the dances, but having never seen them in person. e.g. TOTALLY missing the crucial element in swing of the accented swung eighths.
I agree that there's little point in formal solo ice dance, at least in the straight jacket "dance like how we tell you to, or you don't dance at all!!!" compulsory forms. If you're dancing solo (and we clearly differ on the oxymoronicity of that phrase), then only free dance makes any sense. Since expression can be much freer when you don't have to stay connected/flirt with a partner. i.e. not every expression has to be about datin'n'mating as it is in partner dance.
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Of course you guys left out solo burlesque as the likely historic basis to solo dance...
No true! Most of the Rhythm blues music sounds like stripper music...
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ITA! I say it every time it plays. Sometimes (depending on who's on the ice) I even skate a little naughty when it's playing.
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ITA! I say it every time it plays. Sometimes (depending on who's on the ice) I even skate a little naughty when it's playing.
I guess that is the point! It makes you skate sultry...
When I tested the Blues they played that - when I got off the ice one lady said to me, "I thought you were going to take off your clothes!!" I guess I nailed it!
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I'm very fond of some Carolina Shag dancers too, notably:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l5pczCZw04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2MMLaSOXzE
You sure know how to find my favorites:)