skatingforums
On the Ice => The Pro Shop => Topic started by: cittiecat on January 30, 2016, 08:41:25 PM
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I know there are a lot of threads already for skate advice, but I am hoping to get some advice very specific to my needs.
So first I am inbetween Adult Basic 3 and 4. I am currently wearing DBX Motion skates in a size 8 that are barely reasonable for recreational purposes. I am about 5'3" and weigh about 220lbs. I skate about 3 to 4 hours a week. I have been measured to fit a Riedell 7.5 C or a Jackson 7.5 C. I have been able to try on a Jackson Classique in 7.5 B, the length felt perfect but the skate was way to snug and given that I have wide ankles the wrap wouldn't even fully close. I am currently looking into ordering the Jackson Classique in the 7.5 C but I am trying to make sure that whoever I order from has a reasonable exchange policy.
Neither of the pro shops (each an hour from me) carry Riedell, and neither have the Classique in the 7.5 C in stock for me to try on. I live in the Middle of South Carolina and to get skates you have to go to Charleston or North Carolina or order online.
All this to say while I think the Classique in the 7.5 C will fit my foot as close to perfect as expectable, I am worried that it will still be too narrow at the ankle, the B width had about an 1/8th inch gap on each side of the tongue and I'm not sure if the C width is going to add enough to the ankle. Any thoughts? How much room can be added with punching out?
Additionally, I realize that given my size/weight I may wear the Classique out pretty quickly (I expect to get about a year out of them), I am okay with this though because they seem to be at the right level for me and they are a price I can afford right now while I am finishing up my last semester of law school.
I am willing to look at other skate recommendations though, especially if they can accommodate my wider ankle and are under $300.
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The wide ankles thing will give you trouble learning to skate backwards. Ask the skate tech to see if he can order semi-custom boots with extra wide boot tongues.
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Sending you a pm
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Reidell usually fit a much narrower foot than Jackson so it's interesting that the recommendations for both boots are a C width. Does the store have any other Jackson boots in a C width that you can at least try - maybe the next level up? It's not ideal, but would at least give you an indication as to whether or not they might work for you, especially as you say the B width was very snug. Did you take the insole out of the boot and see how much more width you needed?
For the wider ankles, did you ask them to check whether or not the tongues are actually wider with the wider boots?
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I wear a 7.5C in Jackson's and an 8D in Reidells. Try to borrow someone else's skates if you can't get a try-on pair. It's more expensive, but think about paying a restocking fee to coax shops into ordering skates. Don't settle for good enough.
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Fwiw, my current SP-Teri's are too narrow for my ankles. I have to tie very tight and the tongue is too narrow. Our fitter didn't realize that when we ordered. It's annoying because the tongue slips out and gets stuck when I flex, eliminating support. (Super Teri's). I have to stop and push the tongue back against my calf.
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Reidell usually fit a much narrower foot than Jackson so it's interesting that the recommendations for both boots are a C width. Does the store have any other Jackson boots in a C width that you can at least try - maybe the next level up? It's not ideal, but would at least give you an indication as to whether or not they might work for you, especially as you say the B width was very snug. Did you take the insole out of the boot and see how much more width you needed?
For the wider ankles, did you ask them to check whether or not the tongues are actually wider with the wider boots?
The shop I went to yesterday did not have any styles in the C width, but I found at the Jackson size 9B is the same width at 7.5C so at the very minimum I might use that tid bit to see if the width is going to be about right. Also great suggestion to see home much more room the sole indicates I need, I will definitely keep that in mind. I'm waiting to hear back from their skate fitter about the tongue width.
I found a third shop within an hour and a half drive I'm waiting for them to open to call and see what they have in stock.
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I also have wideish ankles and a very high instep. When I was trying on Jacksons, I found that the Competitor (I think it's a couple levels above Classique) had that gap between tongue and both sides of the boot from about the middle of my foot on up. However, the Premiere (one level above Competitor) either has a wider tongue or a different lacing style that eliminated the gaps. The woman at Rainbo said it was a different lacing setup on that model, though to my eye they look exactly the same. I don't know that this will help you at your current level--Premieres might be a little too stiff now, although I wasn't really all that far beyond LTS when I got mine--but it might be something to think about for the next purchase.
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Is it specifically just your ankle joint (the bony protrusions) that are wide, or is the portion of the foot below the ankle joint and the portion of the shin above the ankle joint also wide? If it's just the ankle joint, you can have pockets in the sides of the boot next to the ankle joint punched out to provide more clearance (this can be done by a skate tech at the shop). But if the adjacent portions of the foot or shin are wide, then you'll need a model with a wide enough tongue.
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Is it specifically just your ankle joint (the bony protrusions) that are wide, or is the portion of the foot below the ankle joint and the portion of the shin above the ankle joint also wide? If it's just the ankle joint, you can have pockets in the sides of the boot next to the ankle joint punched out to provide more clearance (this can be done by a skate tech at the shop). But if the adjacent portions of the foot or shin are wide, then you'll need a model with a wide enough tongue.
I wish it was just a big bony joint, but I've got little tree stumps :P I have pretty muscular calves and very thick ankles in every way.
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I also have wideish ankles and a very high instep. When I was trying on Jacksons, I found that the Competitor (I think it's a couple levels above Classique) had that gap between tongue and both sides of the boot from about the middle of my foot on up. However, the Premiere (one level above Competitor) either has a wider tongue or a different lacing style that eliminated the gaps. The woman at Rainbo said it was a different lacing setup on that model, though to my eye they look exactly the same. I don't know that this will help you at your current level--Premieres might be a little too stiff now, although I wasn't really all that far beyond LTS when I got mine--but it might be something to think about for the next purchase.
This is really useful, the Premiere is a little more boot and a little more expensive then what I was looking to get. It looks like full setup with an okay blade would run me close to $500. But its definitely worth considering, it would certainly last me longer and depending on whether getting a wider tongue on a lower level boot would cost an arm and a leg, it might be more economical. Thank you and I will definitely be thinking about this.
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For the wider ankles, I'd suggest Jackson. I have a similar issue and the Riedel's never fit my ankles right but Jacksons did a good job. The C should be okay. At this level, I wouldn't worry about anything custom unless you have a real problem. If you can afford to go up a model from the Classiques, I would do so as they're meant mainly for beginner kids and given your size, you would probably wear them out quite quickly. I had a pair of classiques when I came back to skating as an adult and they were okay for most beginner skills, but back then, I weighed significantly less than I do now - I was probably the same size as your average 9th grader lol.
If the competitor is one step up from the classiques, I'd go with those (looks like there's also one called the free style and it's closer to your budget so that might be worth looking at). I used a Premiere boot when I did my preliminary test - so all single jumps and basic spins. If you go up in stiffness too quickly, you're going to have a rough time adjusting to the boot if you haven't been skating much. Getting into a true figure skate is much different than going to a sports store and picking something out. Once you've got a bit more skating under your belt, you'd be fine in something stiffer, but I'd hate for you to go up in stiffness too much in one go and then become frustrated.
Edit: If you have Gam in the area it's worth a try. They have good mid range boots and their tongues are very wide and they also have a lacing set up that pulls everything into place nicely. They worked well with my wider ankles. Here's a link so you can see how they're set up. Nice, wide tongue and then the lacing set back a bit.
http://www.skatingboutique.com/gam-0058-podium-ladies-p-5713.html?zenid=f81bcdf95b1c0c376cb678ce1bb927ac
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Oh, I forgot to mention, your new boots appear to be your first serious boots. I've posted a number of articles on how to superfit your boots.
http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/p/posts-for-new-skaters.html
If something in there works, use it, if it doesn't then skip it.
This is 7 years of boot fitting experience boots that I learned from. I swear, I think if I have any pair of boots that are long enough, and of an approximate width I can now get those things to fit. Too narrow--cut it open. Too wide--change the lacing and add extra insoles. I'm perfectly ruthless.
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Edit: If you have Gam in the area it's worth a try. They have good mid range boots and their tongues are very wide and they also have a lacing set up that pulls everything into place nicely. They worked well with my wider ankles. Here's a link so you can see how they're set up. Nice, wide tongue and then the lacing set back a bit.
http://www.skatingboutique.com/gam-0058-podium-ladies-p-5713.html?zenid=f81bcdf95b1c0c376cb678ce1bb927ac
I don't have any Gam in the area, but they look very promising. Would you say they fit similar to the Jackson other than the tongue. I'm at the point where I'm going to have to order something and risk a restocking fee because nothing in reasonable driving distance carries the C width. From the sizing chart I've found it looks like the 8C would be a good fit in GAM for me.
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Oh, I forgot to mention, your new boots appear to be your first serious boots. I've posted a number of articles on how to superfit your boots.
http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/p/posts-for-new-skaters.html
If something in there works, use it, if it doesn't then skip it.
This is 7 years of boot fitting experience boots that I learned from. I swear, I think if I have any pair of boots that are long enough, and of an approximate width I can now get those things to fit. Too narrow--cut it open. Too wide--change the lacing and add extra insoles. I'm perfectly ruthless.
You weren't kidding, I thought cut it open was something other than what it sounded like, sort of like punch it out isn't what I thought it was like three weeks ago but nope you literally meant cut it open.
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I don't have any Gam in the area, but they look very promising. Would you say they fit similar to the Jackson other than the tongue. I'm at the point where I'm going to have to order something and risk a restocking fee because nothing in reasonable driving distance carries the C width. From the sizing chart I've found it looks like the 8C would be a good fit in GAM for me.
If one of your local pro shops is an authorized dealer (Jackson, Riedell, other maker), the tech should be able to take measurements of your feet and make tracings of your feet. These are sent to the distributor or factory rep, who will then decide which size to send you. If they goof and the fit isn't right, there should not be a restocking fee. If you just guess on your own and order a particular size and it doesn't fit, then a restocking fee will likely apply.
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For the wider ankles, I'd suggest Jackson. I have a similar issue and the Riedel's never fit my ankles right but Jacksons did a good job. The C should be okay. At this level, I wouldn't worry about anything custom unless you have a real problem. If you can afford to go up a model from the Classiques, I would do so as they're meant mainly for beginner kids and given your size, you would probably wear them out quite quickly. I had a pair of classiques when I came back to skating as an adult and they were okay for most beginner skills, but back then, I weighed significantly less than I do now - I was probably the same size as your average 9th grader lol.
If the competitor is one step up from the classiques, I'd go with those (looks like there's also one called the free style and it's closer to your budget so that might be worth looking at). I used a Premiere boot when I did my preliminary test - so all single jumps and basic spins. If you go up in stiffness too quickly, you're going to have a rough time adjusting to the boot if you haven't been skating much. Getting into a true figure skate is much different than going to a sports store and picking something out. Once you've got a bit more skating under your belt, you'd be fine in something stiffer, but I'd hate for you to go up in stiffness too much in one go and then become frustrated.
I think the lower level Jacksons are Classique, Mystique,and Artiste. Not sure which order. I would suggest the stiffest of these to get you through your first year or so, IF you can find one that fits. These all have the plastic heel and attached blade. The Freestyle is the first with a leather sole and the ability to change blades. Like I mentioned on your intro post, your feet are going to change as you lose weight. I went from Mystique to Competitor, was in two pairs for 12ish years before I actually had my feet measured and went into semi-customs.
I can't offer suggestions on other boots since I've only been in Jacksons.
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I think the lower level Jacksons are Classique, Mystique,and Artiste. Not sure which order. I would suggest the stiffest of these to get you through your first year or so, IF you can find one that fits. These all have the plastic heel and attached blade. The Freestyle is the first with a leather sole and the ability to change blades. Like I mentioned on your intro post, your feet are going to change as you lose weight. I went from Mystique to Competitor, was in two pairs for 12ish years before I actually had my feet measured and went into semi-customs.
I can't offer suggestions on other boots since I've only been in Jacksons.
The Elle is actually sort of midway between the Classique and Freestyle, and has a leather sole. It comes with a stock blade but the blade could be changed. (I only know because last year I switched from Classique to Elle. Debated the Freestyle but was worried I'd be overbooted.) I don't know how the tongue width compares to the others, though.
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The Elle is actually sort of midway between the Classique and Freestyle, and has a leather sole. It comes with a stock blade but the blade could be changed. (I only know because last year I switched from Classique to Elle. Debated the Freestyle but was worried I'd be overbooted.) I don't know how the tongue width compares to the others, though.
I am working with Kinzie's Closet now on skates and given the measurements she had me do and the fact that I'm am trying not to jump too high, she recommended the Elle because it is the only lower level skate that comes in a D Width. She has also contacted Jackson to find out about the tongues. I am just concerned that the Elle might break down too quickly given my weight. While the Elle does offer some of the higher quality features such as a leather sole and being heat moldable, it is only rated a 35 for stiffness while the Classique is rated 45. The Freestyle is also rated 45 but has a leather sole and is heat moldable. I literally think my head might explode with how much information I now have about Jackson skates :P. I'm going to talk to her about my concern with the Elle but as you have had both the Classique and the Elle maybe you could speak to their comparable stiffness and life. I am hoping to get about a year out of these skates.
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I don't have any Gam in the area, but they look very promising. Would you say they fit similar to the Jackson other than the tongue. I'm at the point where I'm going to have to order something and risk a restocking fee because nothing in reasonable driving distance carries the C width. From the sizing chart I've found it looks like the 8C would be a good fit in GAM for me.
Yes, the model I linked was exceptionally wide in the tongue area, but otherwise are similar to Jackson. Maybe a bit of a lower heel. They're owned/distributed by the same people so are very comperable. I owned these skates and liked them quite a bit. As others have mentioned, your pro shop should be able to fit you and order in, BUT, remember, if they have Jackson, they have connections with Gam even if they don't stock them. Same distributor and if I remember right, same company. It might be worth it to see if you can get your hands on a pair to try on. They might ask for a deposit but should be okay with you saying 'no' and putting it towards something else if they come in and don't fit. Clarify this though.
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If you can find a quality fitter, it is very worth the drive. It took us two years and three brands of boots but we found my dd's guy a 3-1/2 hours drive from home. Our experiences have been that something can feel pretty good in the store but a few hours of skating make it quickly apparent that the boots don't fit correctly. Having a skate tech who understands what your feet need before you get on the ice is of the utmost importance.
My philosophy is that your feet have to carry you through your whole life so you might as well do everything you can to protect them. For some skaters, a stock boot works just fine while for others, it is going to cost more to get proper fit. We are unfortunately in the latter category, so I chalk up the cost as foot insurance. Best of luck to you.
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I am working with Kinzie's Closet now on skates and given the measurements she had me do and the fact that I'm am trying not to jump too high, she recommended the Elle because it is the only lower level skate that comes in a D Width. She has also contacted Jackson to find out about the tongues. I am just concerned that the Elle might break down too quickly given my weight. While the Elle does offer some of the higher quality features such as a leather sole and being heat moldable, it is only rated a 35 for stiffness while the Classique is rated 45. The Freestyle is also rated 45 but has a leather sole and is heat moldable. I literally think my head might explode with how much information I now have about Jackson skates :P. I'm going to talk to her about my concern with the Elle but as you have had both the Classique and the Elle maybe you could speak to their comparable stiffness and life. I am hoping to get about a year out of these skates.
I debated that a bit, but I've only just started doing teeny tiny waltz jumps at the boards, so for me stiffness isn't that big an issue (yet). The biggest difference I actually saw between the Classique and Elle was the weight- those PVC soles weigh a ton!
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UPDATE: So for the moment I have ordered the Riedell Diamonds in an 8C, The measurements were pretty close to what I need and I will have to see about the ankle when they get here. I had originally been considering the Diamonds last week, but had changed course given that everywhere was saying that Riedell is generally narrower. But the measurements worked out as well as the other things I was considering. I hope they work out, if not I will probably exchange them to get the Jackson Elle.
Thank you all so much for all of your help and I will keep you posted on how it goes when they get here.
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Good luck!
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I am just concerned that the Elle might break down too quickly given my weight. While the Elle does offer some of the higher quality features such as a leather sole and being heat moldable, it is only rated a 35 for stiffness while the Classique is rated 45. The Freestyle is also rated 45 but has a leather sole and is heat moldable.
I don't know why Jackson thought it was a good idea to make the lower level model (Elle) available in wider fittings than its next higher level model (Freestyle). Wider feet often mean a larger person is on top of them, and as a general rule a larger person can use a higher level boot than a smaller person at the same skill level. IMO once Jackson decided not to offer the full width range in both adjacent models, they should have made the Elle in A-C and the Freestyle in B-D.
Best of luck with the Reidells!
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I don't know why Jackson thought it was a good idea to make the lower level model (Elle) available in wider fittings than its next higher level model (Freestyle). Wider feet often mean a larger person is on top of them, and as a general rule a larger person can use a higher level boot than a smaller person at the same skill level. IMO once Jackson decided not to offer the full width range in both adjacent models, they should have made the Elle in A-C and the Freestyle in B-D.
Best of luck with the Reidells!
I completely agree with your logic! If the Freestyles came in the D width I would have gotten them without question. But the Elle was more expensive than the Classique for features that weren't the most important to me right now, while being less stiff which was important to me.
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Annoys me that you can't get wider then a C or D until you go up to the Premiere. If you or your kid is skating in the basics but are an E width, then you are stuck with boots meant for somebody jumping doubles and triples. They feel like concrete and inhibit learning because they are far too much boot for somebody just beginning their singles. I can't believe my kid is the only one who needs wide boots and that there wouldn't be a market for lower level, softer boots in wider widths.
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Annoys me that you can't get wider then a C or D until you go up to the Premiere. If you or your kid is skating in the basics but are an E width, then you are stuck with boots meant for somebody jumping doubles and triples. They feel like concrete and inhibit learning because they are far too much boot for somebody just beginning their singles. I can't believe my kid is the only one who needs wide boots and that there wouldn't be a market for lower level, softer boots in wider widths.
I completely agree. I will say that while otherwise insufficient and poorly sized my current DBX skates fit very comfortable width wise and they were a standard width. However I can barely get my crossovers right in them because they are too long and my balance is way off in them.
I think its a shame especially for people who are still growing because you should be able progress with your skill level and growth when you are younger, rather than jumping several boot levels. Since I'm older, heavier, and my feet are not growing its not a huge issue to boot up cause I can wear them for however long they last and I'm not gonna out grow them.
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UPDATE: So after finding out that the Riedell Diamond is back ordered until the end of March. I bumped up to the Riedell Stride in the 8 Wide. They were not a perfect fit but after heat molding and getting the pinkie area punched out on the right skate they fit pretty good. The ankle has just enough overlap and in the future if I end up liking how they are on the ice and when I'm ready for my next pair I might get them modified to have a wider tongue. Its definitely going to take some getting used to the tightness and stiffness. .