skatingforums
On the Ice => The Pro Shop => Topic started by: isakswings on February 17, 2011, 05:27:30 PM
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It is time once again to get new boots. I've had dd measured, but now we are trying to decide on boots. Jackson suggested the Premiere boot. She is pre-preliminary skating about 4 days a week for about 7-9 hours a week. She is landing axels and just starting to get a double sal. She will be working on doubles this spring and summer. She is learning a flying camel too. Unfortunately, we do not have access to a pro-shop. We have a fitter available to us, but we cannot go to a store and try on different models. So, I decided I would come here and see if anyone has worn these before. My daughter had a pair of Freestyle skates she liked before.
Thanks!
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Stiff, heavy, hard to bend. They are stiffer than the Competitor, which were pretty stiff as well. The issue also isn't the jumps, it is also your daughter's height, weight, etc.
If the Freestyles worked, why not stay with them? They are more than capable of taking a skater through axels and doubles; you also do not want to overboot a growing child, as that will lead to all sorts of potential knee and hip problems. How fast did she break in the Freestyles? Is she happy in them? If she's secure and landing the jumps well in the boots, didn't break them down in a couple of months, then, I would stay with them. Me, I would rather somewhat underboot a kid and give them that ability to use a deep knee bend and a soft landing than overboot them and have them come down hard on their joints, or spend a long time breaking them in. You'll probably end up replacing them due to growth before you replace them due to breaking them down; so, take the cash you save by buying the lower level boots and pay for better blades (or more lessons :angel:)
My kid lands up to a 2A, and has a death drop that - well it's quite impressive - and is wearing about the equivalent of a Competitor - at 5'9" and 135 pounds. Also is able to stroke with deep knee bend, land softly with a deep knee bend, and has an ability to hold even a wonky landing because the boot flexes. Also, has absolutely no hip, knee, or back problems as the joints "flex" on landing to give a natural cushion. Skates about 8 hours a week .. 5 days a week. Another kid, same size, different coach: about 2 boot levels up, and you can see the difference in the transitions, the landings (the landings "jar" because the kid can't bend the boot properly) - skates "on" the ice instead of "into" the ice because just can't get the same deep knee bend to get the edges and turns down well.
(okay, I do rant on the subject of over and under booting ... sorry ... just see too many kids, at all levels, hampered by overly stiff boots who are skating with unflexed knees and poor edges because they can't get "into" the ice. Our coaching team are all strong advocates of light-booting skaters, and you can see the benefits in the kids they produce. Expect to get lots of differing opinions here; it's one of those topics that many people feel strongly about).
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Thanks! She was in Freestyles last year and when she outgrew those, she went into some hand-me-down competitors. Those didn't fit her very well(1/2 size too big and reg width and so on). Anyway... we replaced those with Reidell Gold Stars. The rink had the boots in stock and they happened to be the size we needed. They were an older model so they sold them to us for a song. I was a little worried about the break in, but she did great. Within 2 months, her landing foot boot, was creasing more then her Freestyles had ever creased! I was shocked. The boots are not broken down, but are very broken in now. Dd was actually starting to say they didn't feel stiff enough any more. I thought about freestyles too. I know girls who use them that are landing doubles too. I know they are good boots. I guess I just worry about her breaking them down. We'll see. Oh and dd is 89 pounds and 4 ft 11.5 in tall.
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I like the Premiere. It fits a niche between the Freestyle and the Elite that the Competitor didn't do well, and the quality of the Competitor was declining. In any case, buy your own blades and have them mounted. The Premiere also has a slightly nicer footbed.
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Why not stay in Riedell, then? Switching boot manufacturers can be a problem as each has it's own cant and last. Jacksons and Riedells have a different heel height, as we can attest to; it was a transition when we went to the Riedells.
I am surprised about the GoldStar breaking in that fast. It's a high level boot - it's rated for triples - and your DD being able to bend it easily is interesting. If your DD is that tiny and breaking in a GoldStar that fast, then, there are a couple of things to consider: maybe the GoldStars were not the right size (too wide) or your kid has amazingly powerful legs/jump landings that might need the stiffer boot. What does her coach say? Does she want the same stiffness as her current Riedells, or stiffer or lighter?
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No, the boots aren't too big in any way. They actually fit her better then any other pair of boots she has owned thus far. Except now they are getting too small. LOL! She is starting to complain that her toes are hurting.
Dd isn't an extremely powerful jumper so I do not know why she broke the Gold Stars in the way she did. There were boots that the pro shop at the rink had for quite awhile. They had odered them and then they did not work for the skater they ordered them for. I don't know if age has anything to do with it or not. I was actually shocked she broke them in the way she did. She was landing axels in about a week after moving into them and was lacing them up to the top! She had very few blisters and I she did not complain much during the break in process.
Why not stick with Riedell? They are pricier then the Jackson boots. We went with Riedell last year because we were able to buy the boots for 100.00 and dd seemed to like them. Dd liked her Jackson boots too. We're looking into our options now. I wish we couldgoto a pro shopand try on boots. Blindly ordering is hard.
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I agree to be careful about over-booting...my dd at only 9 (90 lbs maybe) was wearing the Jacksons -- one of the Elites and they were so stiff, she ended up with an injury. She hated them. She has Klingbeil now and she is in love.
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Yes, a GoldStar would be more money than a freestyle ... but, granted I'm looking at Canadian prices, but, the Freestyle is $269 boot only; the the Premiere is between $289 and $319 ... if you're looking at a Freestyle equivalent in Riedell, I would think that maybe a 255 which is $286 boot only - ? or a 435 which is $354- ? It's not a huge difference, and if she likes Riedell, and they fit her feet well, then, that's good to know. Those are traditional series boots ... the lightweight ones have different price points. The lightweight 1310 aren't available in Juniors, unfortunately, but, the 910s are.
I hate buying boots. Once we found a brand and a model that worked, we just stuck with it :) Cut down on my stress a great deal.
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Yes, a GoldStar would be more money than a freestyle ... but, granted I'm looking at Canadian prices, but, the Freestyle is $269 boot only; the the Premiere is between $289 and $319 ... if you're looking at a Freestyle equivalent in Riedell, I would think that maybe a 255 which is $286 boot only - ? or a 435 which is $354- ? It's not a huge difference, and if she likes Riedell, and they fit her feet well, then, that's good to know. Those are traditional series boots ... the lightweight ones have different price points. The lightweight 1310 aren't available in Juniors, unfortunately, but, the 910s are.
I hate buying boots. Once we found a brand and a model that worked, we just stuck with it :) Cut down on my stress a great deal.
We love love love the 1310s!!! Both kids have been in them since they came out.Great boot!
There is a auction for the 910s brand new from Riedell 150.00 ends monday. Its for the Memorial fund. If you want the site let me know
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I switched from Freestyles to Premieres and I love them. The new boots seem higher quality overall. However, I also loved my Freestyles, but they were a whole size too big and broke down in less than 6 months. I got Premieres based on skaterslanding advice. I agree that they are stiff, but that is why they were recommended - I am at 200lbs (6"2") and putting on a little more as my muscles build up. My boots are still pretty stiff after a couple of months in them. I feel clunky, but my coach and others say I look a lot more secure, fluid and controlled.
That is a lot of boot, though, for a lighter skater not doing multiple rotations. My vote would be for the Freestyles (I am a Jacksonite.)
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Yes, a GoldStar would be more money than a freestyle ... but, granted I'm looking at Canadian prices, but, the Freestyle is $269 boot only; the the Premiere is between $289 and $319 ... if you're looking at a Freestyle equivalent in Riedell, I would think that maybe a 255 which is $286 boot only - ? or a 435 which is $354- ? It's not a huge difference, and if she likes Riedell, and they fit her feet well, then, that's good to know. Those are traditional series boots ... the lightweight ones have different price points. The lightweight 1310 aren't available in Juniors, unfortunately, but, the 910s are.
I hate buying boots. Once we found a brand and a model that worked, we just stuck with it :) Cut down on my stress a great deal.
She's in a womans size shoe, so no worries about junior sizes. We went ahead and ordered the Premiere. If it feels too stiff, we will send it back to Jackson and order the Freestyle boot. It would be so much easier if we had a full service proshop! I agree about sticking with the same brand and honestly, we would have kept her in Jackson's if we hadn't found an amazing deal on the Gold Star boot. :) Buying skates stresses me out since they are such a HUGE investment. UGH.
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We love love love the 1310s!!! Both kids have been in them since they came out.Great boot!
There is a auction for the 910s brand new from Riedell 150.00 ends monday. Its for the Memorial fund. If you want the site let me know
Really??? Yes, I would like that site link. That is a good price. I get so stressed whenever I have to buy her boots. We are getting the Premiere boots for just under 300 through the rink. They will send them back if they don't work for us though.
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I switched from Freestyles to Premieres and I love them. The new boots seem higher quality overall. However, I also loved my Freestyles, but they were a whole size too big and broke down in less than 6 months. I got Premieres based on skaterslanding advice. I agree that they are stiff, but that is why they were recommended - I am at 200lbs (6"2") and putting on a little more as my muscles build up. My boots are still pretty stiff after a couple of months in them. I feel clunky, but my coach and others say I look a lot more secure, fluid and controlled.
That is a lot of boot, though, for a lighter skater not doing multiple rotations. My vote would be for the Freestyles (I am a Jacksonite.)
Thanks! I appreciate the feedback. The Premiere boots should be here sometime next week. If they seem far too stiff, we are sending them back and going for the Freestyle boot.
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What about the Competitor? The newer models are stiffer than the old ones and might be a good boot for her? the Premiers are very very stiff.
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Really??? Yes, I would like that site link. That is a good price. I get so stressed whenever I have to buy her boots. We are getting the Premiere boots for just under 300 through the rink. They will send them back if they don't work for us though.
http://www.32auctions.com/organizations/1096/auctions/1280/auction_items/20717 (http://www.32auctions.com/organizations/1096/auctions/1280/auction_items/20717)
I was wrong, it ends tonight. Someone is getting a good deal!
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What about the Competitor? The newer models are stiffer than the old ones and might be a good boot for her? the Premiers are very very stiff.
As far as I know, Jackson does not sell the Competitor any more. I can't find any new online either. We may end up sending the Premieres back Jackson if they are too stiff. I do not want to over boot her. Jackson suggested these boots and after the way she broke in her Gold Stars, I am afraid she'd do the same to Freestyle boots. Hmmmm
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As far as I know, Jackson does not sell the Competitor any more. I can't find any new online either. We may end up sending the Premieres back Jackson if they are too stiff. I do not want to over boot her. Jackson suggested these boots and after the way she broke in her Gold Stars, I am afraid she'd do the same to Freestyle boots. Hmmmm
There's some at skaterslanding
http://www.skaterslanding.com/jackson-competitor-boot-only.html
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As far as I know, Jackson does not sell the Competitor any more. I can't find any new online either. We may end up sending the Premieres back Jackson if they are too stiff. I do not want to over boot her. Jackson suggested these boots and after the way she broke in her Gold Stars, I am afraid she'd do the same to Freestyle boots. Hmmmm
I think Jackson now sells the Competitor as a default skate+blade package, with the Aspire blade (see link from AgnesNitt). When I ordered my new boots mid-2010, I was coming out of Competitors and had a look at the current Competitors. To my mind, they're quite a bit softer than my old Competitors were (and no question but that the pair I saw weren't as well finished). It seems that the current equivalent to my old Competitors is the Premiere.
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There's some at skaterslanding
http://www.skaterslanding.com/jackson-competitor-boot-only.html
Thanks.:) I will keep these in mind just in case we want a pair. I suppose we could always change the blade out. She uses a professional blade and we were planning to keep her in the same blade.
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I think Jackson now sells the Competitor as a default skate+blade package, with the Aspire blade (see link from AgnesNitt). When I ordered my new boots mid-2010, I was coming out of Competitors and had a look at the current Competitors. To my mind, they're quite a bit softer than my old Competitors were (and no question but that the pair I saw weren't as well finished). It seems that the current equivalent to my old Competitors is the Premiere.
Thank you. I am anxious to see what these boots look like in person. :)
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It is time once again to get new boots. I've had dd measured, but now we are trying to decide on boots. Jackson suggested the Premiere boot. She is pre-preliminary skating about 4 days a week for about 7-9 hours a week. She is landing axels and just starting to get a double sal. She will be working on doubles this spring and summer. She is learning a flying camel too. Unfortunately, we do not have access to a pro-shop. We have a fitter available to us, but we cannot go to a store and try on different models. So, I decided I would come here and see if anyone has worn these before. My daughter had a pair of Freestyle skates she liked before.
Thanks!
We are going with the Freestyle boots with the Professional blade. I looked att dd's old Freestyle boots today and they are not broken down at all. They bearly have a crease in them! The little girl in them now has about outgrown them and the boots are still in usable condition. Dd tried the Primiere boots on today... it was evident to me that putting her in them would be a mistake. SO... I am sending them back and ordering the Freestyle boots. :) I think we will all be happier. Now if only her current blade fit on her new boots. *sigh*
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How are the Freestyle boots and professional blade going?
& what site did you buy them off?
Im at a slightly lower level also looking at a range of skates
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Hi there. She hasn't skated in them yet, since we are waiting on them to arrive. She currently uses a Professional blade and she likes it, so we keeping it for now. There are a couple of girls in her club who use the Freestyle boot with the pro blade and they seem to like the combo. one is doing double jumps up to a double loop(well landing it in the belt) and the other is working on axels. My daughter's coach and our fitter regularly put skaters in the Freestyle boot. We ordered this this boot and the blade, through our rinks pro shop. I ordered the boot w/o the blade and the rink will mount them for dd. If you want to order this combo, you will need to order the boot and blade seperately. FWIW, the blade that Jackson sells this boot with as a boot and blade combo, is a pretty decent blade. Dd used that blade the last time she wore freestyle boots. I just decided I would keep her in Pro blades since she has been skating on them for the last 8-9 months. if this boot and blade combo serves her well, we will keep this same combo the next time she needs new skates.
I hope this helps!
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I currently have Wifa's and was looking at the Skatec but doesnt seem like many people buy them and most people at the rink have the Freestyles so I think I will get them.
I was looking at the Protege blade though, know anyone who has/does use it?
It was helpful :)
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The Freestyle boots are great. There are skaters on this forum who coach and they reccomend that boot a lot too(from what I recall). We went with the Premiere originally because that is what Jackson suggested for my daughter AND because I was afraid because she previously broke down very stiff boots, she would break down the freestyle boot. However, after we saw the Premieres in person, they are definately too much boot for my daughter.
I don't know anything about the blades you are looking at. I have limited experience with blades. My daughter has used a MK 21 blade(3 yrs ago I think?), a Ultima Mirage blade and Ultima Mark IV and now the Mk Professional blade. She also used a Sapphire blade that came with her very first Riedell boots. At the time, she was in the lower level basic skills and later moved up to the MK 21. I use a Wilson Excel, but I am very much a beginner so this blade works well for me. Good luck deciding!
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The Freestyle should be fine - I sometimes wish I had gotten another pair. I have had my Premieres for a few months now and they feel great with the top hook open. I tried to lace the top hook again this week. Even with the gel ankle sleeves it took 'til the next day for the pain from the top edge of the boots to go away (whine.) A few months of 205 lbs at 3-6 hours a week and they still don't feel like they flex at all. Granted, I only do single jumps, but I usually get about .7 or .8 seconds in the air on my waltz, which is around 2 feet up. You would have thought that would have flexed the boots some by now.
The good thing is that my edges are rock solid, turns/twizzles/pulls are very predictable so they are really improving and my spinning is coming along because of the very stable platform. Pretty good trade off, but I have to skate with the top hook open. And when I can get back to 10+ hrs/wk I'll be glad I have them.
Personally can't imagine a small, light skater breaking them in unless they are doing a whole bunch of big jumps 3 or 4 hours a day.
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A few months of 205 lbs at 3-6 hours a week and they still don't feel like they flex at all.
I weigh (considerably) less than you do, and it only took about 20 hours of skating on my elite plus boots to get them to bend nicely and feel broken in... and I am not doing doubles any more - in fact right now I can't do all of my singles (which is a mental block more than a true inability). I don't lace the top hooks, but I never laced the top hooks on my prior 3 pairs of skates either... my experience was that to force the boot to bend more once it was laced all the way up, led to the premature breaking down of the boot... not lacing the top allows my ankle to flex more without forcing the boot to do the same.
I have always been hard on my boots... I think that skating style (deep edges, power, etc) has a lot to do with that, more than the skater's size. I have broken down boots in months that should have lasted much longer... it may be due to the lacing issue I mentioned before, but it might not be, since that wasn't for case for every pair that I broke down.
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The good thing is that my edges are rock solid, turns/twizzles/pulls are very predictable so they are really improving and my spinning is coming along because of the very stable platform. Pretty good trade off, but I have to skate with the top hook open. And when I can get back to 10+ hrs/wk I'll be glad I have them.
I am really happy to hear that. I just got Premiere boots on Friday. Switched from Reidell 435's which totally imploded after 14 mos.(there are pictures of it on the show off your skates thread). None of my moves ever felt stable in the Reidell boots. I skated in them on Sat. and the spins were surprisingly centered. I didn't do any jumps. I'll be looking forward to Moves now.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJf-H9pCg50
Just saw this on YouTube... there are LOTS of videos from Jackson up... if there's any part of Jackson's line that you wanted to know more about, check out their other uploads :)
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How are the Freestyle boots and professional blade going?
& what site did you buy them off?
Im at a slightly lower level also looking at a range of skates
She is in the new skates now and she is happy. Of coarse, she is going through the normal break in period but she likes them better then her old skates. Could be because her toes were smashed in the old pair. LOL! I think it was wise to switch to the Freestyle. Hopefully she doesn't break them down before she outgrows them, but if she does, we'll dig deeper into why she is doing this...
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Update... so far so good. She has been in these skates for 4 months and they are not breaking down. They are broken in but not anything like her Gold Star boots last year. I am so happy we made the right choice. The Premiere boots would have been too much boot for her. :)
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I have had my Premieres for a few months now and they feel great with the top hook open. I tried to lace the top hook again this week. Even with the gel ankle sleeves it took 'til the next day for the pain from the top edge of the boots to go away (whine.)
So weird- I have had the complete opposite experience. I am 5'0" and under 10 pounds overweight for my height (I'm not posting my weight!) My jumps are teeny tiny, and I don't practice them much (I hate jumping).
It took me 4 1-hour public sessions to be able to start lacing the top hook. I was not jumping at all (trying to get used to new blades). Just forward skating, swizzling, and crossovers. Now I lace all the way up, and am jumping again. I can feel my ankle pressing against the side of them on landing position, but it's not painful- and they give enough in the forward direction that I get good bend for crossovers.
As for the top edge- they are so wonderful I STOPPED wearing gel pads entirely (I skate barefoot). I have scars from the cuts the competitors gave me (I would bleed if I I skated 30 minute LTS without gel pads), but these, I don't need anything at all.
My only complaint is I don't feel like I can get them to stay tight enough. I think it's just because the tongue is so padded they feel loose, but aren't. (If I tighten them, then my feet go numb, so they must have been okay.)
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I ordered my new boots and blades today. Jackson Elite 4000 dance and phantoms. I looked at the synchro-dance combo Finesse skates - nice! When I stop working on doubles, those might be a great option. :WS:
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My fitter said the Finesse was for low level dance/synchro and she wouldn't recommend them for someone doing any jumping- they are the stiffness of the Freestyle, but cut further down so offer less support.
If you are jumping, I'd stick to the higher level dance boots you have.
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The Finesse are not as stiff as what I'm use to, but would be ok for singles and edge work. They were rated at an intermediate dance, and felt pretty good. I did not expect that they would be as supportive as they were, and was surprised. They would wear out more quickly, but are also at a great price.
I do like the lower cut. I've been doing freestyle in dance boots for several years now and they have been great. I have the stiffness of the elite fs boots, but with the flexibility of dance boots. They have been fine for working on throws and doubles. They do take some getting use to - there is not as much support in the back, and the technique needs to really be there, but making corrections in spins is easier. Outside eagles are also a bit more difficult and take some practice! The dance boots I had were no longer made, so these will be a little different. 3 hooks, no more elastic in the back and more comfortable with a rolled padded top. So, six weeks from now - new boots!
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So I had to join the club and I've ordered a pair of Premiers too... I'm not sure what blades I'll end up putting on them, and I don't even need a pair of skates right now, but I couldn't resist - I've wanted to try them since they came out and honestly if they had been available two years ago when I bought my boots I probably wouldn't have gone with the ones I got.
I'm currently debating between going cheaper and getting a pair of MK Professionals (or coro-aces), going a bit higher and getting the Matrix 2 Legacy, or saving up a bit and getting Gold Seals, or saving even more and getting paramounts (which I've actually wanted for a while, but the $500+ price tag for the 440's seems a bit much). I have a while to decide on that though, since I won't be able to buy blades until at least next month. I do have an ancient pair of MK dance blades that were given to me ages ago that maybe have 3-4 sharpenings left that I may put on them for now, so I can start breaking the skates in doing moves or something.
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I love my boots & my blades...because the blades are made with aluminum, they are lighter. Not a big deal for most people but I like it. The toe-pick is uber sharp and I've scratched myself with it (picking up my boots). Because my blades were shorter I've had to re-adjust my spin spot. But it's going well. I think you will like the boots.
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I currently have Wifa's and was looking at the Skatec but doesnt seem like many people buy them and most people at the rink have the Freestyles so I think I will get them.
I was looking at the Protege blade though, know anyone who has/does use it?
It was helpful :)
The Protege blade is a decent blade, a step up from the Mirage. I know a few skaters who wear them, and a few coaches who have downgraded to them from their competitive blade. They have straight cut toe picks (which I prefer) if you want cross cut, the Legacy is the same blade.
If you have the extra money and don't mind cross cuts, I highly recommend the Matrix Legacy. The harder steel means a lot longer between sharpenings, and I think my edges have improved solely due to the blade (the "rip" I get is so wonderful, makes you feel like a real skater!). Plus, pretty colors :) Or not, if that isn't your thing.
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The Protege blade is a decent blade, a step up from the Mirage. I know a few skaters who wear them, and a few coaches who have downgraded to them from their competitive blade. They have straight cut toe picks (which I prefer) if you want cross cut, the Legacy is the same blade.
If you have the extra money and don't mind cross cuts, I highly recommend the Matrix Legacy. The harder steel means a lot longer between sharpenings, and I think my edges have improved solely due to the blade (the "rip" I get is so wonderful, makes you feel like a real skater!). Plus, pretty colors :) Or not, if that isn't your thing.
I didn't get mine in a color (well, silver is a color hahaha) but I did see several girls at U of De skate with them in colors and they are really pretty! Not flamboyant but pretty. I think if they had offered white, that would have been really cool to get...it would have blended in with the ice.
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Is 3/8" less than the length of the sole too short for the blades, or would that be okay?
I'm really struggling with this now since I realized the dance blades I have are shorter than I thought they were.. and I am worried that they'll be "too short" since those blades are already shorter. Ack :(
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I have Jackson Premiere with Coronation Ace parabolic blades and I love them! :WS: Had them for six months now, did a competition six weeks after getting them and was fine (well, comp was bad but not because of the skates lol!)
I'm very overweight and working on small single jumps (stilll can't land loop) so I felt I needed something quite supportive. Took a few weeks of skating about three or four times a week to break them in, but I no longer get the pain in my arches that i used to with my prevuous pair (Edea Overtures that i think may have been half a size too big).