Follow up to Bad Experience with Riedell

[irenar5]

or a little forwards of the center when skating forwards, but backwards of it when skating backwards.

Not to get off topic, but this is actually opposite from what happens:-)  When you skate forward, you are on the back of the blade and when you skate backward, you are on the ball (which is more  front of the blade)

[johnallocca]

I tried wearing the boots only 10 min a day. Now, the pain is not going away even after not wearing them for 3 days. I believe the podiatrist was right, I will damage my foot. The navicular and talus are deformed preventing my foot from bending as needed in high heels. Forcing it will chip or fracture one of them.

I can wear my inline skates, which is nice depending upon the weather.

But, I would also like to ice skate on hot days. I don't care about competing. I just want to have fun skating.

Hockey skates have a low heel and would work fine for my right foot.

Does anyone have any experience using hockey skates on the ice rink?

John

[Query]

Not to get off topic, but this is actually opposite from what happens:-)  When you skate forward, you are on the back of the blade and when you skate backward, you are on the ball (which is more  front of the blade)

If you've taken from many coaches over the years, it's just one of the things you have to change.

I spent some time trying to figure this out by watching televised skating, but found no consistency - merely found that even very good internationally competitive skaters don't all do these things the same way.

[icedancer]

If you've taken from many coaches over the years, it's just one of the things you have to change.

I spent some time trying to figure this out by watching televised skating, but found no consistency - merely found that even very good internationally competitive skaters don't all do these things the same way.

I have to agree with Query here, there is no "one way" to do most things in skating.  It is whatever works for you ultimately.

[johnallocca]

Query, I see some of your posts on heel height. I want your opinion. Riedell is willing to do whatever it takes to make a boot that works for me including making a new boot.

I'm thinking of sending the boots back along with a shoe and insert that I use. Have them make the bottom of the boot flat like a regular shoe. I'm also thinking of having them lower the heel by 1/4"

What do you think?

John

[Query]

I think making a new pair of boots, or radically modifying the current ones, sounds like a great starting point. Provided the information for the fit comes from a highly competent fitter. By your descriptions, your experiences working through your current fitter have not been positive enough, IMHO, to presume that any aspect of his work should be taken as a good basis for making boots, or even for making the final adjustments post-manufacture.

I think that you should discuss with Riedell the possibility of traveling to their location in Minnesota to see their fitter, or if you can't afford that, to a fitter that they recommend, even if it is a several hour drive, before doing any further mods or getting new boots made. E.g., there is supposed to be a very good one who works the pro shop at the University of Delaware. Perhaps Riedell knows of one a little closer. Perhaps our New York members could also advise you on a really good fitter closer to home.

Yes, that sounds extreme, but you asked my opinion. My opinion isn't based on any knowledge of medical things, but is only based on working through the problems of misfit boots myself. It seems to me that the boot makers themselves, and perhaps the half a dozen to dozen best fitters in the world, are in a completely different skill category from the average pro shop pro. When your health is at stake, as it seems to be, it makes sense (to me) to go to the best. And the best for a given brand of boot probably are probably the people who make the boot, because each boot maker makes different assumptions on the way a boot changes under load. I'm not sure if Riedell will let you see the master boot maker, but they would almost certainly let you see a fitter that they have thoroughly trained to fit boots their way.

Too bad, with your location, that Klingbeil has been recently been criticized by people on this board for customer service issues. A couple of years ago, many people would have said that you try to get a refund from Riedell, and go to Klingbeil's factory store for custom boots. When they were run by the Klingbeil family, they were very knowledgeable and good - at least when Don Klingbeil (and Bill Klingbeil before him) did the fitting and mods.

[irenar5]

I have to agree with Query here, there is no "one way" to do most things in skating.  It is whatever works for you ultimately.

Sure, you can do things the easy way or the hard way:-) When something is done correctly, you feel the effortlessness of the move.  Frank Carroll likens the movement pattern  to a speed boat.  When it zooms forward the bow is up as the stern is lower in the water.  When the boat is pulled back by a rope, the bow is dipped in the water, while the stern is up.  Most skating mistakes (and falls) result from being on an improper place on the blade. 

[johnallocca]

Now, I have new hope for returning to ice.

John

[johnallocca]

Reduced to 128k. Double click on the photo to make it larger.

John

[johnallocca]

I got brand new K2 Fit 80 inline skates today. They have a lot foot bed and fit ok. My old inlines were 20 years old, beat up, and worn out. Now I have to wait for the rain stop to skate outdoors, which will be in 2 days.

I sent my boots back to Riedell along with shoes to lower the foot bed.

In the meantime, I ordered Riedell model 830 SS Adult recreational skates for $89 so I will have something to touch ice with while waiting, which will be 2-4 weeks. http://www.lowpriceskates.com/riedell-830-ss.aspx

John

[Loops]

I'm with Query.  I think you've put enough energy into this that it's best to meet the boots (and your shoe) in Minnesota.  The fitters will much more likely be successful in meeting your needs if they have your actual feet to work with.

This might seem like a PIA, but it will be time and money well spent and you are much more likely to end up happy.

Many skaters, I'll even posit that most, need to drive hours or even make an overnight stay to get to a good fitter.    I know I do, and for my next pair will very likely need to actually leave the country.  It's par for the course if you don't want painful skates. If its within your power to go, I would.

[alejeather]

Too bad, with your location, that Klingbeil has been recently been criticized by people on this board for customer service issues. A couple of years ago, many people would have said that you try to get a refund from Riedell, and go to Klingbeil's factory store for custom boots. When they were run by the Klingbeil family, they were very knowledgeable and good - at least when Don Klingbeil (and Bill Klingbeil before him) did the fitting and mods.

I believe they've actually closed up shop, or at least they are no longer making or repairing custom boots. I think they might be mass-producing low-level skates overseas, but I'm not sure. Their master boot maker is now at a new boot company in Nashville. They posted on Facebook recently that they are going to try to accommodate repair requests from former Klingbeil customers.

[Query]

Sure, you can do things the easy way or the hard way:-) When something is done correctly, you feel the effortlessness of the move.  Frank Carroll likens the movement pattern  to a speed boat.  When it zooms forward the bow is up as the stern is lower in the water.  When the boat is pulled back by a rope, the bow is dipped in the water, while the stern is up.  Most skating mistakes (and falls) result from being on an improper place on the blade.

Can you explain why you feel that leaning against the motion lets you move easier?

Speed skaters don't do it your way.

You aren't a speed boat. Unless you balance right on your sweet spot (where the rocker radius changes), the blade shape seen by the ice does not change, because the rocker radius is constant. Besides, AFAIK, there is no significant bow wave to climb, but there is significant sideways displacement of the ice, and longer rocker radii glide better. Perhaps that sideways displacement makes you more like an efficient displacement hull ship, in which the bow drops?

I can't figure out which is more efficient. My best guess is that your way creates a marginally stronger push, but more drag on the glide.

[johnallocca]

I added to the diagram:

John

[irenar5]

Can you explain why you feel that leaning against the motion lets you move easier?

Speed skaters don't do it your way.

You aren't a speed boat. Unless you balance right on your sweet spot (where the rocker radius changes), the blade shape seen by the ice does not change, because the rocker radius is constant. Besides, AFAIK, there is no significant bow wave to climb, but there is significant sideways displacement of the ice, and longer rocker radii glide better. Perhaps that sideways displacement makes you more like an efficient displacement hull ship, in which the bow drops?

I can't figure out which is more efficient. My best guess is that your way creates a marginally stronger push, but more drag on the glide.

The blades have a toe pick, so if you are too far forward  on the blade going forward, you can easily trip over the toe pick and there is less stability.  For example,  on a spiral you have to ride WAY back on the blade.   Try doing a backward crossover with your weight further back on the blade- you will probably find yourself falling.

 You can debate the minutiae ad nauseam, but the fact remains, that to have proper form and safety in figure skating, your going forward blade position is further back on the blade than your going backward position.  I invite you to try both and see what you think :-)

[Query]

Irenar5 we are way off-topic.

I find everything easier my way, and I prefer the way a pair of ice dancers look when they lean together into the motion than away from it. It looks much more natural.

Both are probably just be the way I was taught. Your way also requires better flexibility, and I think you have to check turns more, both of which would be a problem for me.

[johnallocca]

I got the boots today. They fit perfectly without right foot problems. Now, I have to order blades. Attached is a photo of the boots.

John

 

[Loops]

That's fantastic!  I hope the perfect shop fit translates smoothly to a perfect on ice fit. 

I'm glad you got this sorted out, and FINALLY have a pair of boots in your hands.  Blades will be easy peasy compared to this.

[alejeather]

Looks like they did a great job!


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[twinskaters]

What a happy update!


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[TropicalSk8ter]

Yay!! the boot looks great!  Good to hear you can skate!! And figureskate for that matter as well LOL! Have fun!!


Ripping the ice all day!

[fsk8r]

Very impressed with the service you've received from Riedell and hope that you have a nice easy break in when you finally hit the ice.

[johnallocca]

I ordered the blades (MK Professional Revolution). So, I should be touching ice within the next two weeks. I went out on Inline skates a few weeks ago and learned that my skating abilities are gone. I need to regain my balance. Consequently, I will be starting from the beginning, which may be a good thing because my coach will have a blank canvas to work with.

John

[Query]

It's so wonderful that you are pleased with the redone boots (so far)!

Most people that I have talked to who had problems with new custom boots, and who quickly went back to the manufacturer (all manufacturers) have been very happy with the results. Most of these people work very hard to please custom boot customers, and usually manage to please them eventually, though every boot maker has some exceptions among its customers. I'm glad that Riedell is still in this category.

Perhaps it helped that your problem was very public on this website, but I'm pretty sure they would have tried their best anyway.

    

[johnallocca]

I got the blades and just has them mounted. The skates are great.

I'm just in time for my rink (and all in the area) closing their morning sessions for the summer. I have to work in the afternoons and evenings.

I may have to wait until September.

There is definitely something to be said about winning the lottery and building your own rink.

John