DD's axel - is it a cheat? What is a cheat?

[skatingmama]

DD has been working on her axel for over a year and just finally 'got it' yesterday. She's been frustrated by it and was thrilled to start landing on the right foot and only one foot instead of bringing both down, tripping herself up. Her coach was very happy but mentioned to her at the end of the session that its a cheat. What is a cheat and why is it a cheat? The coach said she didn't care as DD was getting the feel of landing on the right foot but of course, DD wants to do improve and do it right. I coulnd't upload the video but you can view it here:

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Isk8NYC]

It's nice - congrats! 

The landing is being cheated because the jump is underrotated.  Watch the toe of her skate on the video: she takes off towards the left side of our screen, but lands with the toe facing us directly.  If she had done the full 1-1/2 revolutions, she'd be landing with her toe facing the right side of the screen.  It's a little more than 1/4 turn underrotated.  I think the first attempt actually "three'ed" (LFI=>RBO) slightly on landing, but she found the toepick on the second landing.  (The toepick is the first and last thing to touch the ice on every jump.)

Still - good effort!  She'll nail it soon enough - I can see the weight transition and timing.  She swings a little wide (for my taste) with the free leg entry instead of kneeing through and up, but that might be the coach's technique, so don't go by me.   A little more upright body position in the air and she'll have the Axel down pat.

She deserves a reward, like ice cream or a manicure appointment.  I can't wait until my kids get that level.  It's so exciting!

[skatingmama]

Thanks, she was very thrilled with herself as was I. I like your reward suggestions and I'm sure she will too!
Up until the axel, the jumps had all been fairly easy for her so she was really frustrated with this one. I thought the jump looked under-rotated. Not sure about the knee, if that's the coach or DD - I'll have to ask her later. Thanks for your tips though!

[jumpingbeansmom]

Really close!  She will get it....I am finally able to start seeing when my dd cheats jumps-- it is not easy.

[vesperholly]

Yes, it's definitely cheated, but I wouldn't worry too much. It's good that the coach recognizes that it's a cheat, because it won't go unfixed. After a year of frustration, focusing on the positive (landing the jump on one foot!) is more helpful than the negative (it's still cheated).

[techskater]

It just means there's a little more work to do on it for it to be clean.  If she can close up over the right side a little more when she transitions her weight, she'll have it.

[Nate]

If she steps up into the jump instead of going through with a straight leg she should be able to get the rotation because she will pull in more efficiently and that will help the rotation.

It's nothing big.  A lot of coaches teach the straight leg take off on the Waltz jump so the skaters have to relearn how to take off correctly when they get to the Axel.

[Schmeck]

She's also doing the jump on the video from a standstill - she'd get more momentum if she did a few back crossovers, etc, and transferred that momentum into the height and rotation of the jump.  It's much harder to get a good, clean jump from a standstill!

[FigureSpins]

Speed really increases a jump's distance much more than the height.  It does nothing for rotation - it actually increases resistance.  To increase height, the skater has to jump higher (duh) and stay aligned properly through the in-air phases of the jump. 

For proper technique, the line jumps are much better for the very reason that you can't use that momentum and you have to rely on proper technique.  Doing a jump from a standstill isolates the transitions and forces the skater to align themselves much faster, which is a good thing.  That in and of itself increases the speed of rotation without needing additional height or distance.

She's leaning slightly forward (breaking at the waist) instead of stepping up into the air with her upper body over the hips.  (On the second one, she actually looks down as she jumps, which increases the break.) If she focuses on leading with the chest or bellybutton and staying up straight, she'll get the rotation she needs without having to increase the speed.  That might also resolve the free leg swing, if that's really an issue, because she'll be aligned more strongly over the takeoff side without needing to compensate for the off-balance position.

On a waltz jump, the correct posture is with the free leg kicking through straight.  Most coaches add the bent-knee version later, to prepare for the axel prep.  Honestly, the beginning skater usually does a hop when you teach the bent-knee version first, which is not the intent of the jump - you don't get them to roll up off the toepick of the skating foot if they've posed with the bent knee in front.  They can easily hop off the edge and do a 1/4 turn or less onto the other foot.  Better to start with the free knee and then teach the bent knee.  Slusher recommends teaching it sooner, rather than later and I've adopted that methodology as well.  Skaters should be capable of doing both if they've truly mastered the jump.

The OP's daughter is doing just fine and I'm sure the jump's improving by leaps and bounds as she's had practice and lessons since the video was recorded.

[Sierra]

She's also doing the jump on the video from a standstill - she'd get more momentum if she did a few back crossovers, etc, and transferred that momentum into the height and rotation of the jump.  It's much harder to get a good, clean jump from a standstill!

Speed really increases a jump's distance much more than the height.  It does nothing for rotation - it actually increases resistance.  To increase height, the skater has to jump higher (duh) and stay aligned properly through the in-air phases of the jump. 

People try to tell me to go faster into the axel, but my coach has me doing it just from a slow back edge, no crossovers. When I go too fast I really tend to jump waaay out and not up. Going slow helps me pop more straight up and around rather than out. I can rotate an axel from the very slow back edge if I use proper technique rather than relying on momentum.

I have been yelled at, glared at, lectured, bribed, and pleaded with and I still cannot land on the right foot. It's basically at the 'I can't land the jump for you, you have to decide to land on one foot' stage. A harness session might be in order. I can definitely share your daughter's frustration. Do you know what helped her start landing on one foot?

[FigureSpins]

I'm beginning to lean towards the off-ice harness training for axels and above.  Not the pole harness but the stationary version like this:



I think that being able to stay suspended in position without worrying about takeoff or landing really helps with alignment and tighter rotation.  It isolates the movements, checks and transitions with little to no risk.  Just mho.

Although I will say that the little kid spinning like that might be messy if the kid gets motion sickness.

I wonder if it would help cure the always-dizzy spinners among us?  You could ramp up to it in order to train your brain to ignore the dizzy signals.  Things that make me go hmmm....

Tip: put an ankle weight on your right ankle and secure it well.  It will help with the knee-through (since swinging would be difficult) and help keep the landing leg extended down.

[sarahspins]

People try to tell me to go faster into the axel, but my coach has me doing it just from a slow back edge, no crossovers.

I don't think speed helps too much before you've landed it... I learned them starting from a stand-still, doing a tap-toe into the jump (I think this is to help drill down the step/timing).  Then from a push backwards onto a RBO edge into what I'd consider a "normal" entrance position. 

Doing them at speed just means you fall harder if you don't have the jump yet.

[skatingmama]

She's also doing the jump on the video from a standstill - she'd get more momentum if she did a few back crossovers, etc, and transferred that momentum into the height and rotation of the jump.  It's much harder to get a good, clean jump from a standstill!

DD has been taught to do it from a standstill and this is posing a problem when incorporating the jump in her solo. She has managed to successfully land the axle now, several times, thanks to some great instructors at a three day clinic, she even managed an axle/loop combo but all from a standstill. When in motion, she falls every time. It's very frustrating for her.

[skatingmama]

Do you know what helped her start landing on one foot?

Honestly, I think it was watching other skaters, and learning the position of her hands. We do our spring with another club and they skate 100% differently than us. My daughter started copying a couple of the others, where they hold their hands by their shoulder and it clicked for her. At the clinic she went to, she just learned, and she's been figure skating 8 years, about the h, d and the six points of a jump. Her coach had said the rotation was all from the arms but she was told at the clinic it was from the hips. She really improved at the clinic and like I said in another post, managed to land some axle/loop combos, but all from a standstill.