Blade mounting concerns

[AlbaNY]

I'm starting this so the practice report thread doesn't veer off topic since in answering questions I want to say a lot.   
My second hand boots came with Gold Seal blades.  I was in my first LTS semester working on basic 1-3, and due to the pandemic the group lessons were the only ice time available or I might have tried the Gold Seals before switching to more reasonable blades. 

I ended up getting Aspires, and the tech asked if I wanted to keep the shim that was under the right blade.  Thinking it was for pronation or something I said no.  This tech used straight edges and things to check the blades, I recall, and she warned me she could only fill the old holes with glue instead of properly plugging them due to time constraints (I drove up to Potsdam for this.)

When I skated my right blade skittered like crazy.  This remained a problem for about six months?  I blamed my right leg being rather weaker as it drags a bit if I wear high heels, but I did wonder for if something was off with the blade/boot.  Once I adapted I stopped thinking about it.

Yesterday, a year and a half later, I had Pattern 99s mounted.
I went to the tech that my coach swears by despite his increasing forgetfulness. 
He used no straight edges and made no measurements to check the blades (just eyed them,) and he did not fill the old holes with glue or anything to keep water out of the leather under the chem glaze.  Not filling the old holes concerned me, and he did a full permanent mount instead of the temporary one I anticipated.  (To be fair the tech who put the Aspires on also did a permanent mount.)  Also, the Aspires were flat against the sole with contact at all areas, but the Pattern 99s have gaps at the toe plate.  I pointed it out and he put in another screw on one then said it was due to the soles and wouldn't be a problem.

Skating, I felt the old skittering again, but not as dramatically.
I asked the only coach at the rink yesterday if the mounting was normal, and she was surprised that Forgetful Tech is still doing skates and said "maybe he forgot to fill the old holes."  She uses the other tech I went to once for a sharpening.  (His sharpening was "too sharp" for me to be happy if I have the option for my guy.)

I live far from all the skate techs, but...
Too Sharp Tech has a small rink, so if I go to him I think I might get to test and play around with the positioning and such?

[Bill_S]

At your level, you should determine the best location for blades. Period. Having permanent mount screws installed without experiments is, well..., I can't say that here.

If your sliding is mostly on an inside edge, as on a forward stroking push, then try to position the blade a bit to the outside of where it is now. That will naturally cant your foot over to bite more with the inside edge.

If the blade skids mostly on the outside edge, i.e., doing an under-push on forward crossovers, position the blade a little inside of where it is.

If your skidding happens on both edges equally and you know that they are sharp, then the blades are probably close enough. Try getting a little deeper in the knees to help out.

If you want to experiment, remove the permanent screws and adjust blade position using the slotted holes. Skate but don't jump or do other forceful moves to see if things improve. If they do, then let's hope that the skate tech left some empty holes for new permanent screws. If not, plugging is a must to be able to seat new screws.

[supersharp]

I agree with Bill.

I'm also concerned about the blade having some twist in it from forcing it down on the sole that it doesn't lay flat on, which might explain why there was a shim and why the skittering has returned.  Maybe you should visit Too Sharp Tech and ask him to help you get the blades set up correctly for you. If you don’t need them sharpened, that works particularly well, but if he is a competent tech he should be willing to adjust any sharpening to make you more comfortable.

SIDEBAR: I’ve had a few techs try to shame me (and others) for not liking razor-sharp edges, but u am un-shamable on that topic.  This is not supposed to be a contest to see who can tolerate the grabbiest edges… skaters perform best with consistent edges that are not over sharp at first, fading into skidding, then an abrupt change at the next sharpening. 

I would love to see photos of the blades on the boot, but you would have to loosen the screws for us to see the extent to which they don’t lay flat, and you may or may not be comfortable doing that. 

[AlbaNY]

Thank you both.

The skittering is only noticeable if I just casually am skating around the rink, like on my way to the boards with my bag for example and kind of slowly gliding along.  Crossovers and all three types of cross rolls felt very nice (forward and back) for example.  The place that I felt very uncomfortable was when doing a forward crossover then change of edge.  Let's see... it was on the right foot when I swung my left leg and changed to an inside edge?  I felt quite insecure getting the inside edge?

Supersharp, uh... the gaps are big enough to be visible in photos without loosening screws, so I'll try to get around to resizing them for posting here later today.  Last night I checked them myself with straight edges and the tools at work, and the blades and edges looked good to me.  I'm no expert though.  (He left the sharpening they came with which was either 3/8 or 7/16.  I usually do 7/16.)

I made an appointment with Too Sharp Tech tomorrow and explained the concerns I have.  He scheduled it for when his small rink is clear for me to skate.  I feel much better about this and am curious what he'll have to say and do.  I'll report back of course!  I'm preparing to have to leave them and go back before I can skate again.  It's worth it but annoying in terms of time and nickels and dimes.   

[supersharp]

It sounds like you may need a shim or two, but if his shop is set up well, he should have materials on hand that could be used while you wait.

Having it feel wrong on a change of edge makes me think that there is a slight twist that feels okay when you are in front of it or behind it, but when the change needs to go right through the twisted section (between the stanchions, and usually closer to the stanchion on the plate being pulled too far over), it has a little awkward spot where you are on an edge then suddenly on a flat (eek, skiddy!) and then back to the other edge. 

[AlbaNY]

Supersharp, that is an interesting idea.  If I still feel it this week I'll go back to Too Sharp.

Today he took a look and had me skate doing a few different things.  He decided it is my physical issue rather than the blades or boots and said to practice a couple of the things he'd asked me to do while skating to fix it.  According to him the mounting position was pretty close, and he didn't think he could get it much better than that.

He told me I could use beeswax to fill the old holes, that the soles will conform more after a while, tightened some screws more, and wanted to sharpen the blades saying the edges were a bit rounded and had not been "fully" sharpened.  Of course he likes crazy sharp, but I had immediately noticed that they did not feel at all like a fresh sharpening does on Friday, so I decided to go for it.  Who needs to be able to stop anyway?   

I think I forgot to mention that Forgetful Tech said they were at 3/8 or possibly 7/16ths.  Too Sharp was certain they were 3/8 after he checked, so I went back to 7/16ths.  He recognised me as the new Zamboni Girl and gave me a lesson and tips for sharpening.  I know now why I found it so jarring to skate after his sharpening.     He uses a stone after, at a 5 degree angle, "to create a micro bevel"... and he does nothing to gently dull the edges after either.  Nothing!     There is no pity on us skaters.   

So, I'll see how I do tomorrow. 
Oh, something of interest regarding my other thread and the discussion about boot stiffness is that he entirely approves of really stiff boots (for my current and new pair and for his own.)  He said he'd requested his last pair of figure skates (back in the '80s) to be even stiffer than the most stiff option they offered. 
He punched the ankle bone spot for me too, and that felt a lot better.

[Bill_S]

Interesting.

Let's hope that his sharpening will reduce or eliminate skidding. Factory sharpening is too random to be fully trusted. I agree that 7/16" should be the place to start your journey on Pattern 99 blades.

Let's see... you're driving the Zam, have been shown how to sharpen... hmm, pretty soon you'll have the run of the rink!

[AlbaNY]

Interesting.

Let's hope that his sharpening will reduce or eliminate skidding. Factory sharpening is too random to be fully trusted. I agree that 7/16" should be the place to start your journey on Pattern 99 blades.

Let's see... you're driving the Zam, have been shown how to sharpen... hmm, pretty soon you'll have the run of the rink!

I'm one step closer to being ready for when I win the lottery and open a rink.   

I'm hopeful that the sharpening makes a difference and will be diligent with the exercises too.  I do know I've had trouble with that leg being harder to use properly for many years with my right foot kind of dragging annoyingly while the left leg felt perfectly capable and powerful.  This skittering is similar in feel to how my car wheel was out of alignment and pulling one way and another.  At least it is only slightly noticeable currently and not so obvious as the first six months with the boots.

[tstop4me]

He told me I could use beeswax to fill the old holes, ...

If you think you might hang on to the boots as a backup pair, I wouldn't do this.  If you want to permanently plug the holes (such that you can later re-drill in or near the old holes), you want to use an adhesive (e.g., epoxy) to secure a plug (e.g., cut from hardwood dowel).  The wax will interfere with adhesion of the adhesive:  you will need to remove the wax carefully, and probably drill out the hole more to reach fresh (wax-free) material.  If you want a temporary plug simply to keep the water out, you can do what many techs do:  use a plug cut from hardwood dowel slightly larger in diameter than the hole, and tap the plug into the hole with a hammer.  The temporary plug can be readily drilled out later should you need to replace it with a permanent plug.

[AlbaNY]

Tstop4me, oh!  Thank you for the advice.  I'll plug them them with dowels then. 
I expect to have them resoled some day down the line but definitely want to keep the moisture out during the long wait for the new pair.  I might also try some silicone sealant around everything since there might be unfilled holes under the blade plates.

[Query]

I personally would fear that mounting with a vertical blade plate warp might also create a horizontal or twist blade warp. But not everyone agrees.

I love the nicknames you give your coaches and techs. I trust you are careful which ones you tell their nicknames. Though if they happen to read this forum, they might guess.

Do you perform other rink work functions while you aren't Zam girl? E.g., Rink Guard Girl, Skate Rental Counter Girl, Assistant Group Lesson Coach Girl (that would be fun), Skate Tech Girl (which would also be fun), Snack Bar Girl, Janitor Girl (not so fun)?

I really love very sharp blades, but you clearly don't.

Another alternative is to learn to sharpen yourself, and figure out what makes you happiest - but it takes time to learn how and not make mistakes, so if you can find a tech you are happy with, maybe that make sense. And I admit the hand tools that I usually use (Pro-Filers) aren't made any more. But if you are happy with relatively dull blades, and with 1/2" ROH, you could use the old used Berghman sharpeners.

There are a lot of factors that affect edge sharpness. So I wouldn't expect two techs to give you the same sharpness and other blade shape factors. Which is why many experienced skaters settle on one tech and stay with them.

I find it very odd that a skate tech couldn't figure out your ROH. Unless you had let them go so long that there was very little hollow left, they should have been able to take a measurement by bringing something of appropriate diameter in contact with the hollow, and looking carefully for gaps - with a magnifying glass if their vision isn't good. But I suggest you make a note of what hollow makes you happy and stick with it, because changing ROH wastes steel and therefore reduces blade life.

[AlbaNY]

I didn't get to skate yet, so no report.

Haha, I'm glad you find it amusing too.  Since I sometimes post the same videos on Facebook as I make for Youtube I know Coach Cheerful has seen her nickname.     Coach Awesome may have but doesn't use FB very much at all, and I highly doubt he watched any of those.  The girl from the rink may have told him if she thought it was funny though, because she definitely watches them.    

There is only one of us scheduled at a time, so yup... I do it all (except we don't have a snack bar.)  So far I've been mostly deep cleaning the place in between resurfacing.  The men's bathroom was horrifying, but I scrubbed every bit of the room except the ceiling.  I'm pretty sure the job title is rink manager, but I just say I'm the Zamboni driver since that's more cool.   

I was looking to find a Pro-Filer a while ago but didn't have any luck.  I thought it would good to have if I end up back in Romania permanently, since the sharpening situation is that there is just the one guy with a vertical grinder, steady hands, and decades of experience. 
I do hope I'll learn to do a good sharpening and could take care of it myself some day and maybe even get my own equipment? 
At the rink we have a Blackstone G 02.

[Query]

In some respects "rink manager" is a more respectable, responsible job title to put on your resume than Zamboni driver.

I was looking to find a Pro-Filer a while ago but didn't have any luck.

If you do find a Pro-Filer online, make sure it is the figure kit - it has two handles and two stones.

This one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234709933887?hash=item36a5cd5f3f:g:N-gAAOSwkzhjMfnM&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsDk8vGX1SaSRGoLKqc823%2BHqiJmeopAlOM1HgT3uMKpfVubWJ8PbcYHcK2w809hzzQ6NZzCVoZMEkNS4hsd0y903DhANiLCnO5hgP2bOT2SPClzNx10Xmh4LQJYchlHnjSHGuOHDkZueIHslcChQqoliuswPgC2X%2BjPQSRlriwv0GEQGyWrZpoym%2B2tqDh800imsovwqa5%2BgDQ5RdN3n6iwqYfNEzqYIQhn9btLadCuq%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7LsvNSBYQ

has one holder and one stone, and is for hockey - which means it has a gap size that is too narrow to fit a figure skating blade. I modified one like it with a file for figure skating blades, but that was a fair bit of work.

Though I suppose a kit like that might be OK for hockey blades - though there are other hand tools for hockey blades too. And there are a lot more hockey players than figure skaters.

The other issue is that each kit only fits one diameter cylindrical abrasive round stone - i.e., only one ROH.

IMO, the old Berghman tools were better designed than the Pro-Filers were, as long as you replaced the round stone with a more modern material that is more durable. They only came in 1/2" ROH.

Is shipping to Romania super-expensive? If so, the powered machine tools might be a bit heavy, even the "portable ones".

Current international events must be a bit scary in Romania right now. Since this isn't a political forum, I won't say more.

[Loops]

I'm coming in a bit late to this, but i want to second or third getting those holes properly plugged. Here in the outskirts of nowhere, with nary a skate shop for hours, I've taken them to a cobbler- who has done them for FREE!!!  (my US tech charges something / hole). Fwiw, He never has used a silicone sealant on my skates (I went to him as a kid too, back in the 80's/90's).  I know some here do though.

If you can get to the dude who oversharpens, I'd still do it, since s/he has a rink onsite and can do corrections while you wait. You don't have to let him sharpen your blades. Long story, but when I came back to skating 10ish years ago, I dealt with a poorly aligned blade for a whole season before I could get to my US tech.  He sorted it out very quickly.  One of the techs on here (I'm thinking SuperSharp and Kaitsu in particular, perhaps Bill_S too) may have some insights on tests you can do to confirm its an alignment issue.  I know just trying to skate in a straight line told me quickly there was an issue.  Doing the edge pattern off the old preliminary figures test confirmed it.  I also got shims on those skates, so for me it was a bit more complicated.

Also, there are gauges you can get to verify the ROH.  I feel like one commonly used ROH is the same as the circumferance of a ?penny?  Can anyone confirm?

Good luck!  And enjoy those P99's

[tstop4me]

I was looking to find a Pro-Filer a while ago but didn't have any luck.  I thought it would good to have if I end up back in Romania permanently, since the sharpening situation is that there is just the one guy with a vertical grinder, steady hands, and decades of experience. 
I do hope I'll learn to do a good sharpening and could take care of it myself some day and maybe even get my own equipment? 
At the rink we have a Blackstone G 02.

If you're hunting for a Pro-Filer, you might want to check with the original owners whether they have old stock available.  Here's my post from a year ago:

OK.  Here's the word from Jan Anderson at Edge Specialties [Brad and Jan Anderson run Edge Specialties]. 

*  They are retiring.

*  They have sold the "pro-filer.com" domain to Wissota.

*  They have sold the boot punch, HDI gauge, and rocker bar product lines to Wissota.  These are the products featured on the Edge Specialties page of the Wissota website (where you land when you enter "pro-filer.com" in a browser).

*  Edge Specialties still has some Pro-Filers in inventory for sale.  If you are interested, please contact:

Jan Anderson
Edge Specialties, Inc.
phone 320-808-1536
e-mail pro-filer@charter.net

Caveats:

*  Figure skate kits were sold in ROH's of 3/8", 7/16", and 1/2".  However, the 7/16" kit was identical to the 3/8" kit, except for the stickers that say 7/16".  If you're skating on a 7/16" ROH, I'd recommend that you ask for the 3/8" or 7/16" kit, if available. 

*  There are several threads here on the pluses and minuses of the Pro-Filer.  Some are happy with it; others are not.  As with any tool, there are limitations you should be aware of.  And there is a learning curve (particularly frustrating experiences with taping the sides of the blade).  And a lot depends on your particular blade; importantly, the thickness of the blade, the thickness variation of the blade, and the surface finish of the sides of the blade.  It really works only with parallel sides (though it was claimed to work with side-honed blades), so you should be OK with your P99's.  But if you end up in place without a competent sharpener, it's worth a try unless you're serious about getting a power sharpener.

[Query]

You don't have to tape the sides of the blade with the old Berghman Sharpeners, because the gap is adjustable - but I sometimes have anyway,  so they won't scratch the side of the blade. (I wonder if unscratched sides are the reason your new blades slide smoothly? Or perhaps the skate techs did a good job creating a smooth finish on the hollow.)

Berghman sharpeners are easy to tape uniformly, because you can open up the gap wide, or remove the wing bolt altogether. Also, you can clamp the stone right at the end of the handle, so you can sharpen very close to the toe pick. Or clamp the stone a little distance from the end to avoid trimming the toe pick if your hand slips. As you can see from that search, they are available used cheap, though I think they were fairly expensive when new. But then you have to add the cost of adding a new tech abrasive cylindrical stone (I actually used one from a 1/2" ROH Pro-Filer kit, though others are available online), unless you want to try to make do with the old coarse crumbly ones.

Of course all tools have their limits. E.g., Pro-filer and Berghman sharpeners are both best for parallel sided blades. And tstop4me has mentioned problems with Ultima Matrix and Paramount blades in which a runner is sandwiched between other sheets of metal.

Just be aware there are a lot of other types of really junky sharpening tools available that don't do a good job, for one reason or another. It would be a shame to mess up your beautiful new blades.

I hope you find a way to get happy with your blade mount, and that what your tech does doesn't warp the runner of the blade.

Sorry you couldn't find the STEP Ninety Nine stainless blades. But it sounds like you are happy with what you got.

[AlbaNY]

Thank you for the information Tstop4me.  I thought I had read that the 3/8 and 7/16ths were the same.  I'm definitely serious about getting a machine eventually though if end I up feeling competent enough.  (I do expect to given prior aptitude and quick learning with sensitive machinery and an ability to sense exact weights in my hand and such in the past... which is not the same but I think related to the skill set required.  Although I have no reason spend the money on it unless I'm even farther from a good tech.  I could use the machine at the rink anyway.)

Query, I'm shocked at how inexpensive those are!  I heard of that type before but know nothing more about them and need to dive into some research.
I am so happy with the new blades now.  The difference is astounding... I thought it was possibly mostly in my head until Coach Cheerful was stunned by the change too yesterday.  She said that although the new blades are very nice it's not the only explanation and that something must have been wrong with my Aspires after various sharpenings...  I would love to compare my tracings of them with a new pair to see about that.  They didn't look bad to me honestly.  Both blade tracings matched up despite the hand held vertical sharpenings, and there was some rocker on them visibly.     I made pretty nice progress on them too, but now things are looking so much more lovely when I skate. 

I'm not going to mess with my own blades any time soon!  The mounting looks better now with the extra tightening of the screws and some skating. The gaps look okay to me now instead of unreasonably wide.  The skitter has been unnoticeable too, now that I think of it. 

[Kaitsu]

Albany,
Dont be scared to buy own power grinder. Anyone whom is quality oriented and does have correct attitude, motivation and some technical knowledge can learn figure skating sharpening. Its not such a rocket science as people often say it to be. Its important to have good and correct tools. Understanding few theories and cause symptoms is also needed, at least basics. Rest is then learning by doing.

I would start the learning path with buying few measuring tools and measuring blades which are sharpened by some other people. You should recognize quite soon how common uneven edges issue is. If you feel that you would like to / can make edges to be more even and you are willing to use your time to fix such an issues, you are ready to proceed in to phase where you start to investigate which kind of power grinder you should choose. Buy good machine and it serves you rest of your life. Do not buy any cheap machine (Like SSM-2) for practicing, because it just makes you learning path more difficult. You will anyhow buy that better machine sooner or later. Believe me.

Jumping back to original topic...
I am using often attached template, if want to make quick check if blades are mounted in the way which would be my starting position in the blade mounting. Even I have sketched outlines based on Edea boot, all you need to care are circles at both ends. Print first page to transparent film. You might need to play a bit with scaling. Mark blades current centers to your booth, remove blades and overlay the boot sole with transparent film you printed. Try to centralize circles like shown in page 2 and compare center line on the transparent film to marking you made before removing blade. Compare also if left and right foots are positioned similarly and try to analyse what happens, if blades are mounted out of theoretical line I have sketched. I do not want to say that my sketch is correct place for blade, but it helps a bit to make some conclusions about the blade positioning.

I hope this helps.

[Query]

Thank you for the information Tstop4me.  I thought I had read that the 3/8 and 7/16ths were the same.

It's not that 3/8 inch and 7/16 inch ROH are exactly the same - many people feel there is a significant difference.

But I was told, and so were other people, that the 7/16 inch Pro-Filer kit was actually a 3/8 inch kit, because the person who made them believed there was no significant difference, because the difference in depth of hollow (the distance between the plane of the bottom-most part of the edges and the top of the hollow curve) is small.

Bill_S has a web page in which he computes the depth of hollow for a fixed blade width - in that case about .0011 inches (.028 mm, if I calculated that right). That sounds small - yet, as I said, many people say it matters.

The fact is, the differences between many different blade types are also quite small. Yet many people, apparentlly including you, feel there is a huge difference. As an example, whether what I call the sweet spot, namely the point along the length where the rocker radius changes (the Pattern 99 has two such spots), has a sharp transition, or a rounded off transition (which tends to occur if not compensated for after just a few sharpenings), could be incredibly small. I personally believe that distinction is a lot of what people notice, because it is harder to "feel" where you are on the blade with a rounded transition - though of course the height and position of the edge of the toe pick to the current blade curve, which also changes as you sharpen, can be very significant too, because it affects how far you can rock forward before touching the toe pick.

[tstop4me]

It's not that 3/8 inch and 7/16 inch ROH are exactly the same - many people feel there is a significant difference.

But I was told, and so were other people, that the 7/16 inch Pro-Filer kit was actually a 3/8 inch kit, because the person who made them believed there was no significant difference, because the difference in depth of hollow (the distance between the plane of the bottom-most part of the edges and the top of the hollow curve) is small.

In the context of this thread, I readily understood AlbaNY's response to confirm that she previously heard the 3/8" and 7/16" ROH Pro-Filer kits are identical (she was responding to my post on that point); not that a 3/8" and 7/16" ROH on a blade are identical.  I don't think anyone here besides you would read it that way.

[Loops]

Kaitsu- that is a pretty handy template!  Thanks for sharing that with all of us (along with your advice). +GOE

[AlbaNY]

Kaitsu, Thanks for sharing that.  I tried to look last night on my iPad but couldn't find the download.     Thank you for the reassurance and advice also.  For now I get to play around with the blades and tools at work, so I have time to figure stuff out. 

Query, I only meant in regards to the ProFiler. 
I was surprised when I compared the few blades I have (and their tracings) at how very similar they really all are, but somehow I do feel a big difference indeed.

[Kaitsu]

Some vote for the weekend...

a) Would this kind of blade mounting cause any concerns on you?
b) If the blade size is 7.75 do you think its very likely that skate tech has made skater specific positioning for the blades?
c) If your answer to bullet b) is "No I don´t think so", do you think it requires special tools or skills from the skate tech to recognize that maybe it would be good idea to double check blades positioning before final mounting?
d) Should skaters make some visual checks for their skates when they get them from skate tech or should they just trust skate techs without any question?

[supersharp]

I wish I could see the full sole plate at the front as well as the back...but based on what I can see:

a) The heel plates are mounted in different locations relative to the markings and to the edge of the sole. Are the white markings around the sole consistently placed on Edea boots?  It's also hard to tell if the blades are on straight from this vantage point, but I would want to look at that.
b) Most skaters wearing a 7.75" long blade have feet that are growing too fast for there to be much of a need for special positioning, and often are not aware enough of their feet to be able to tell you if the blade is centered under their foot anyway.  So I would say very unlikely that this was special positioning.

[supersharp]

...had to split this due to the word limit...

c)Any skilled craftsperson would check the final product. Really, the only special skill required is the ability to see a difference when it exists and to assess whether or not it appears different but it's an illusion, but that is where experience helps. Sometimes markings on soles are not consistently placed, or sometimes the way the soles are hand shaped makes it so the center of the bottom of the sole (where the sole plate sits) is not under the center of the heel or toe when it sits in the boot.  Everything needs to be laid out relative to how the foot sits in the boot.  This is more likely to be the case on a handmade boot than a molded boot like this Edea.  The more boots you see, the better you get at identifying if something isn't right, but a lot of it is just taking a moment to actually look at the mounting and seeing what is there instead of just seeing what you want to see before declaring "yay, it's done!" I check blades over and over again for straightness along with looking at where the sole plates sit.  No two boots are exact mirror images of each other, and there can be surprising differences in sole length and width.  The tech needs to determine where the extra length is placed--front, back, both?
d)It is always smart for the skater to do a visual check, then skate and see if the boots feel right.  Of course, newer skaters may not really know what "feels right", so they are more at the mercy of the skate tech or the manufacturer.  It's definitely in any skater's best interest to inspect their skates regularly anyway--are the laces wearing? Is there water damage?  Are the blades rusting?  Is there hard guard damage?  Are the edges all banged up from the free foot landing on top of the other blade?  Do my skates stink because I store them in my bag and never dry them out?