skatingforums
On the Ice => The Pro Shop => Topic started by: Neverdull44 on October 05, 2014, 08:27:43 PM
-
I need to know the doctor(w) who specialize in making orthodics for figure skaters (or skaters)?
I've had a myriad of foot & ankle issues throughout my life. Ganglion cysts, plantar issues, surgery on a tendon, Haglunds deformity, and now, an issue with what appears to be a growing "accessory navicular syndrome". My feet have always cramped 10+ minutes into skating, and I have to work through it. It takes about 5 minutes, and then I can skate. I have custom orthodics for my regular sneakers, but not for skating boots. All my skating issues are confined to my feet. I've done Harlicks and now Edeas. My Edea is pretty comfortable, except for this navicular syndrome issue (which is ok on Monday . . .but by my Friday skate it's sore and big). I still go through a mild cramping at 10 minutes into skating. I think it's my plantar ripping a tad. Once it's ripped, then I'm good to skate. (Yes, I do Yoga & stretching my archives before and after skating). My regular podiatrist told me that my tendons were "super loose" and my foot could flex too much, like an accordion. I'd like to get to an expert, even if I had to fly away from Florida. I'm willing to try anything at this point to avoid the pain.
-
Perhaps you can speak with this doctor:
http://www.askmredge.com/medical-advisory-staff.php
I spoke with him on the phone when I was having issues and needed to have orthotics made locally, he was pretty helpful.
-
Thanks! I have a call into him.
-
I'm in NYC and know orthopedists and physical therapists that specialize in feet. They treat all the Broadway dancers. I'll ask if they know any skater hyper-specialists and let you know.
-
I spoke with Dr. Weil!!! He gave me some information and pointed me to an article he wrote in Sports Podiatry Journal. I meet with my podiatrist tomorrow.
His website: http://www.sportsdoctorradio.com
His article in Sports Podiatry on Figure Skaters benefiting from orthodics and a "how to" for other podiatrists: http://www.sportsdoctorradio.com/images/Podiatry_Mgmt_Weil_June_2010b.pdf
He wrote a chapter in a book "Anatomy of a Figure Skating Injury"
Bad feet can lead to bad knees, hips, spine, ankles, etc. I think in my case, my bad feet just plain HURT in boots.
-
So happy to hear he was helpful! I hope the podiatrist can make you the right orthotic!
-
Update. My podiatrist sent me to two other doctors, who specialize in skating orthodics here in Florida.
Broken Naviular? X-rays are funky, the navicular is big and protruding out of the side of my foot. My podiatrist thought I had broken the bone at one point, and another podiatrist thinks it could be tendon imbalances causing the bone to look super strange on X-rays. Off the tip, there is a bone spur that looks just like a rose's thorn. On a side of the spur,, there is an open "v" shaped valley into the bone, and a crack that comes off that going down into the bone. I never remember breaking my navicular bone . . . . It is on my spinning foot. I have noticed a sharp pain in that foot, occasionally (1 in 10 times) when I take off for a waltz jump.
Now, husband reminded me of when I could have broken my navicular. . . .. About a month ago, I was walking down the stairs and something just snapped in that foot. The entire weekend, I couldn't put much pressure on it. I babied it for a weekend, it got better and I just carried on. Broken navicular's turn into a dull pain. I have many dull pains, which I just ignore. Skaters don't hurt themselves skating, it's when we are out of our "casts" of the boot that we are most apt to hurt ourselves. There's even been a scientific study on our clumsiness and mishaps when off the ice! This is when I got my new skates, and that this bone started to protrude.
Anyone else skate with a broken foot bone and not realize it? Boy, I feel stupid. Or, perhaps I am just a tough old broad.
-
Not a broken foot, but with a strained muscle that's still healing.
Happened off ice of course. Walking at night in Downtown Orlando, stepped off the curb, my knee buckled and my foot rolled. Happened 5 months ago and I still have pain from it.
-
I broke my toe right before I started skating again in March. I had no idea. I've never broken any bone before but since I drink a ton of milk, I developed a huge callus at the fracture so went to the orthopedist and it was a healing fracture!
It actually felt much better in stiff boots than shoes.
-
My orthodics came in today. They look weird. They feel good in the skate. We'll see how it is tomorrow when I go on the ice. I make no comment or assertion until I put it on the ice. I'm only supposed to skate around tomorrow. I have to ease into these . . .
-
Update: Orthotics are pretty darn wonderful creations!!!!!!!! I could really feel the difference when jumping. My feet don't feel like scrambled eggs, just flattening on landing. And, on takeoff, it feels alot more efficient. I have a full base to push off from, and my arch isn't getting flattened. After I skated, my feet didn't hurt. I skated for 45 minutes, and feel like I could have gone triple that. Oh, and I didn't go through the 10 minute into skating, foot cramping.
-
Wow, that must be an amazing feeling! So glad they're working out! And fwiw- my nearly 15 years old and falling apart ones looked like that when new, too. Mine still holding up in the places that matter, so I'll wager yours will last you a long while too. Glad you're skating pain free!!!!!!!
-
Wow, you have such a high arch! No wonder your feet were hurting, skating boots are notorious for not having good arch support! I am happy they feel good!
-
Wow, that is such a great report! I am glad the orthotics are so helpful!
-
These go into Edea skates, which have a higher heel. So, when on the higher heel, there is more of an arch going down. Surprisingly, it didn't shorten my foot by much.
-
Glad that your orthotic is working out.
Can someone change the title of this thread so that orthotic is spelled correctly? It bugs me every time I see it.
Thank you.
-
Can someone change the title of this thread so that orthotic is spelled correctly? It bugs me every time I see it.
LOL! Thought I was the only one:)
-
Thanks! I didn't realize I was spelling it wrong.
-
Wow!!! does having orthodics make that much of a difference really?
I most likely will have to get some soon.. going to the Dr. on Tuesday for a follow up and I'm suspecting I'll need them.
Glad to know your foot problems got resolved and you are comfy in your skates.
-
Physics,
I can't begin to tell you how much more comfortable I am on the ice and afterwards, with my orthotics. I've had them for years with my regular tennis shoes because of my bad feet.
I would get foot cramps about 10 minutes skating, with both my custom Harlicks and new Edeas. I stroked around the ice for about 5 minutes and it would clear up, some. The podiatrists (I spoke with 3, 2 who treated me), said that this was likely lactic acid building up because my foot muscles were working way overtime trying to correct for my pronation. It was also likely a little bit of my plantar tendon ripping. That was more of a burning pain, not a cramping pain.
Now, when I push off to glide, everything is more efficient. I have so much more power to each of my strokes.
I had an issue with my power threes and that mohawk to the turn forward. I was bent over. Now, not having that issue.
Taking off and landing jumps has really improved. I don't feel like my feet are flattening out and trying to find balance. With the orthotic underneath, I have firm surface that supports my entire foot.
When I am done skating, my feet are not tired or sore. I feel like a kid again, like I could easily skate for 4 or 5 hours.
-
Amazing news Neverdull! So happy for you. Yup, your feet have to have a place to rest into AND stay in an efficient position. So glad you found someone to make you a great pair of orthotics for your skates.
-
Physics,
I can't begin to tell you how much more comfortable I am on the ice and afterwards, with my orthotics. I've had them for years with my regular tennis shoes because of my bad feet.
I would get foot cramps about 10 minutes skating, with both my custom Harlicks and new Edeas. I stroked around the ice for about 5 minutes and it would clear up, some. The podiatrists (I spoke with 3, 2 who treated me), said that this was likely lactic acid building up because my foot muscles were working way overtime trying to correct for my pronation. It was also likely a little bit of my plantar tendon ripping. That was more of a burning pain, not a cramping pain.
Now, when I push off to glide, everything is more efficient. I have so much more power to each of my strokes.
I had an issue with my power threes and that mohawk to the turn forward. I was bent over. Now, not having that issue.
Taking off and landing jumps has really improved. I don't feel like my feet are flattening out and trying to find balance. With the orthotic underneath, I have firm surface that supports my entire foot.
When I am done skating, my feet are not tired or sore. I feel like a kid again, like I could easily skate for 4 or 5 hours.
Wow!! that sounds like major improvements.
Do you find that you are more stable in your skates?
My coach is always complying that my edges are not stable or consistent enough, but that when I get them right they are elegant and prefectly stable. I always find that I drop to my inside edge, specially on my right foot (the one with suspected pronation, and all kind of ankle injuries this year) without thinking about it. My right foot also cramps up within 10 to 15 minutes of getting of the ice. It's gotten better since getting my skates stretched but it still occuring. I'd super glad to hear that this problem got fixed for you with the orthodics, and it offers hope for me and my skates.
Thanks for the updates.
-
Yes, ALL of my edges feel more stable with the orthotics. Especially, that backwards, left inside edge. And, my landing edge too.
-
@physicsonice You said "suspected pronation". Have you not had your feet assessed? It should be very easy for anyone who is trained to give you a yay or nay.
My feet actually supinate a bit more than neutrral. After reading this thread I feel like I may lean toward an orthotic evaluation instead of Superfeet for my Harlicks (should I ever, ever get them....). :-\
-
Thread title corrected!
As I was leafing through the Riedell 2014 Catalog today, I noticed that they're offering a "Reidell Footbed Kit."
(http://ice.riedellskates.com/wp-content/uploads/accessories-r-fit-sm.png)
Footnote: I like Legos and it looks like that's how the pieces go together, lol.
R-Fit™ Footbed Kit
Introducing our new comprehensive foot support system. Specifically designed for skaters with a leading podiatrist, this kit lets you increase com- fort and stability for better on-ice performance. Cushions and absorbs shock. Apply the compo- nents to create a custom footbed for your foot’s unique needs. Kit includes Arch Supports, Heel Wedges, Heel Lift, Metatarsal Pad along with an instruction guide. Works with all types of skates.
Testimony from satisfied customer: http://www.iskateriedell.com/2014/shaelyn-brown/
“After a year of struggling with heel injuries resulting from poorly fitted boots, not to mention lots of time off trying to heal, I was given the opportunity to try the new 2010 Fusion along with the new Riedell footbeds. These skates molded to my foot and required minimal adjustments. My first day on the ice, I was back landing all my double jumps. Having skated in the 2010 Fusion a couple of years ago, I could definitely feel improvement to the stiffness and support of this new boot. I love the new footbeds! These are a great addition and helped accommodate my heel and arches from pronating in, therefore giving me better technique on my take-offs.”
Should work for all skates, assuming the skate sizing allows the room for this footbed. It's a clever idea that might be really helpful to adult skaters, who are more knowledgeable about their podiatry needs and notice problems sooner than younger skaters. Could stop a lot of struggling that currently goes on in skating.
You have order through your Riedell dealer, so I don't know the cost of this product. I'll send an email and request more information.
-
@physicsonice You said "suspected pronation". Have you not had your feet assessed? It should be very easy for anyone who is trained to give you a yay or nay.
My feet actually supinate a bit more than neutrral. After reading this thread I feel like I may lean toward an orthotic evaluation instead of Superfeet for my Harlicks (should I ever, ever get them....). :-\
I've had my feet checked by my fitter and my George Sp-Teri in the last year, both mentioned I pronated somewhat on my right foot.I actually had superfeet pur into my skates because of it and then changed them out for Sp-Teri pronation correcion insoles because the super feet were taking up too much room. I have also had an orthopedic surgeon take a look at my feet , because of bursitis, and he mentioned my right foot was slightly flat. I have a second appointment with him this week to check if my bursitis is connected with some damage to my tendons. So say suspected pronation because I don't have the exact answer to my ankle problems yet, but it should be coming soon.
-
Thread title corrected!
As I was leafing through the Riedell 2014 Catalog today, I noticed that they're offering a "Reidell Footbed Kit."
(http://ice.riedellskates.com/wp-content/uploads/accessories-r-fit-sm.png)
Footnote: I like Legos and it looks like that's how the pieces go together, lol.
Testimony from satisfied customer: http://www.iskateriedell.com/2014/shaelyn-brown/
Should work for all skates, assuming the skate sizing allows the room for this footbed. It's a clever idea that might be really helpful to adult skaters, who are more knowledgeable about their podiatry needs and notice problems sooner than younger skaters. Could stop a lot of struggling that currently goes on in skating.
You have order through your Riedell dealer, so I don't know the cost of this product. I'll send an email and request more information.
I was looking at these in the riedell catalog recently and would love to know how much they are. I tried some gel insoles for arches in my skates and I liked how they felt, though I didn't like how those were only half inserts
-
I don't know all the anatomical details, but you can have more than one type of pronation, that occur under different circumstances.
A simple "wedge" which makes one part of the insole thicker than the other (such as I make for myself with tape) can balance your foot side-to-side.
But if you only have pronation during jump landings, which causes your knee to mis-align only when you land, or if the pronation gets worse during jump landings (and maybe take-offs), that can create long-term knee problems. (I have some of each type.) In principle, you can put tape under an insole on the inside of the foot, and compressible foam under the insole on the outside of the foot, to fix this.
BTW, the jump-landing pronation may be hard to evaluate yourself - it helps to have someone else (coaches are good) watch your knee while you land.
But you would need a fair bit of trial and error to get it just right. So you might experiment with modifying inexpensive insoles from the dollar store, rather than applying and ripping off tape and adhesive foam from the insoles that came with the boot. Besides, you may want a thinner insole so you have space to work with inside the boot. I've been meaning to play with this a little more myself.
That is something that your foot doctor can do too - he/she would might make a fancier looking custom insole out of fancy materials rather than using tape and adhesive foam. It's possible that a foot doctor would have the experience to do it faster than you can - at a price, especially if the doctor has to visit the rink to watch you skate.
-
I am back in action. I landed many flip-loop jumps today, in my orthotics. I am so comfortable now on my landings. I did a loop-loop and salchow-loop too. My health insurance covers a pair of orthotics a year.
-
Physics,
I can't begin to tell you how much more comfortable I am on the ice and afterwards, with my orthotics. I've had them for years with my regular tennis shoes because of my bad feet.
I would get foot cramps about 10 minutes skating, with both my custom Harlicks and new Edeas. I stroked around the ice for about 5 minutes and it would clear up, some. The podiatrists (I spoke with 3, 2 who treated me), said that this was likely lactic acid building up because my foot muscles were working way overtime trying to correct for my pronation. It was also likely a little bit of my plantar tendon ripping. That was more of a burning pain, not a cramping pain.
Now, when I push off to glide, everything is more efficient. I have so much more power to each of my strokes.
I had an issue with my power threes and that mohawk to the turn forward. I was bent over. Now, not having that issue.
Taking off and landing jumps has really improved. I don't feel like my feet are flattening out and trying to find balance. With the orthotic underneath, I have firm surface that supports my entire foot.
When I am done skating, my feet are not tired or sore. I feel like a kid again, like I could easily skate for 4 or 5 hours.
That's so great to hear that your orthotics are working like wonder! I went to Tim Burt today to see if he could mold them a bit more and finally it's doesn't numb my toe or feel loose in the boot. Gives me a better sensation of control on the concertos.
-
@PhysicsOnIce I have bursitis too. Where is yours? Mind is the 1st MTP joint. It was getting better but now worse than before and I've been mostly off the ice. Warmer weather shoes are irritating it.
-
@Neverdull so great for you!
-
@PhysicsOnIce I have bursitis too. Where is yours? Mind is the 1st MTP joint. It was getting better but now worse than before and I've been mostly off the ice. Warmer weather shoes are irritating it.
Mine is on the inside bone of the ankle (i.e. Medial Malleolus) bursitis. Much to both my orthopaedic surgeon and myself surprise wearing heels actually helps, with it. They've done two echos in which they can find absolutely nothing, except a partial tear on the outside of my ankle which is totally unrelated but due to a previous injury. My surgeon thinks that the bursitis is actually due to my tendons not supporting my foot correctly because of pronation. So insoles is the first step, I have an appointment with the insole manufacturer on Friday of next week.
-
Ah okay, totally difference but nonetheless frustrating and not so straight forward.
I went to NJ to have my boot punched out today and Jim put some foam in the punch out for extra cushioning without compression.
At this point, the only pair of shoes I can wear (off ice) are falling apart and not for winter. Fun stuff....!
I burst my bursa so it's just more irritated and picky now. Cannot get a steroid injection until the new boots come.
Have you tried that? I am using Voltarn gel which works really well as long as I don't wear anything with pressure on the area. I believe capsaicin is almost as strong and is OTC.
Good luck with the insoles! My Sports Medicine doc says the footwear is the key.
-
I'm wondering if any of you orthotics-wearers have to change the placement of your blade after getting fitted with an orthotic for your skater. I have been using Superfeet for years now and recently added a heel wedge (for heel pronation) to the mix and find that my blade is not running so great with that -
Also a new sharpening so not sure what is going on. Unfortunately our master sharpener passed away last week and so we are all wondering how it is going to be with his expertise -
Sob.
-
Heels help with some foot problems, but not with all.
I am not an expert, but changing how your foot sits in a boot could change where the center of the blade should sit. But so far for me, the blades still feel like they are sitting right even after my orthotics.
-
Heels help with some foot problems, but not with all.
I put in the heel lift to try to modify a skating problem - my feet feel fine in my boots (although I have always hated the boots, but not because of any pain) - putting in the heel wedge to help try to align my knee a bit - was getting a bit knock-kneed in my skating - putting more pressure on my knee... the wedge has helped but my edges feel off - also bad sharpening... sigh...
-
I just got my Orthotics today. They feel weird, actually I can tell that I am standing and walking differently, but I definitively feel like there is a ball under my feet. The lady that fitted them to me says that's what they are suppose to feel like. I have not skated in them yet, but we will see. I might go to the afternoon public session today to try them out... Can't wait to see what happens.
-
Should work for all skates, assuming the skate sizing allows the room for this footbed. It's a clever idea that might be really helpful to adult skaters, who are more knowledgeable about their podiatry needs and notice problems sooner than younger skaters. Could stop a lot of struggling that currently goes on in skating.
Exactly!
Also: ME WANT!
-
You have a break in schedule with the orthotics? Follow it, but I did dive a little quicker into mine.
-
You have a break in schedule with the orthotics? Follow it, but I did dive a little quicker into mine.
They did not really give me a break in schedule for the orthotics. They just told me to start wearing them two to three hours a day and increase it from there if my feet dont feel tired. I have had no problem at all.
-
Yes, gradually increase hours. But, I was so happy that I was in them full time about the 4th day. I was a little sore, but nothing like skating sore.
For my skating orthotics, I started out just stroking and adding skills as I felt I could handle them. Took about a week to get up to speed on all the spins & jumps.
Orthotics do feel like you are stepping on a tennis ball in your arch. But, it's a good feeling and it doesn't hurt. May take you a few days to get used to. If they do hurt still, call the doctor.
-
This is probably a stupid question but I'll ask it anyways. Do you have two pair of orthotics?
I skated in my normal pair yesterday and two day, things did not go as well as I had hoped
Spins worked almost effortlessly, but jumps and footwork was a complete and utter Mess.... actually even standing in my skates felt odd on the ice. I felt like my blades were several inches too short in the back and my weight was about two thirds of the way back....this was bad enough for me too fall just sanding. I took some hard a dangerous falls yesterday.
I was lucky enough to have an appointment with my skate tech today. She believes that. The insoles are actually too wide for the heel of my boot and are not sitting flat in the boot... I am not sure what to do? Would it be okay to just not wear the insoles in my skates but wear them in my shoes as they are originally designed for shoes amyways?
-
Before I had custom skates, I took my boots to my podiatrist and had a pair made specifically for my skates in addition to the ones that I had for my regular shoes.
-
Before I had custom skates, I took my boots to my podiatrist and had a pair made specifically for my skates in addition to the ones that I had for my regular shoes.
This sounds like how a lot of skaters do it - the orthotic is made specifically for the skate/skater - guessing that there are different specifications because of... well because of skating and standing on a 4mm blade and all of that other stuff!
-
Yes, I have two different pairs of orthotics. The ones for my regular sneakers are very wide and are not made for a heel. The ones that were made for my skating boots are as wide and long as the skates original innersoles and made for the higher heel.