Is it common for skating coaches to yell at their competitive students?

[jumpingbeansmom]

It seems common around here that all the coaches who have the most successful competitive skaters are yellers.   Is this JUST the way it is in figure skating?  Many of these locally coaches are Russian, Ukaranian....etc. 

[MimiG]

One of the best coaches I ever had (and I was never elite, but some of her other students were Provincial and National competitors at the Novice and Junior level...) was so soft-spoken you pretty much couldn't hear her over the general rink noise - you had to skate right up and listen intently. But lots of elite level coaches do seem to be yellers. Not necessarily angry or scary, but definitely loud enough to hear across the rink over the loud bits of a program and certainly not afraid to make themselves heard!

[jumpingbeansmom]

One of the best coaches I ever had (and I was never elite, but some of her other students were Provincial and National competitors at the Novice and Junior level...) was so soft-spoken you pretty much couldn't hear her over the general rink noise - you had to skate right up and listen intently. But lots of elite level coaches do seem to be yellers. Not necessarily angry or scary, but definitely loud enough to hear across the rink over the loud bits of a program and certainly not afraid to make themselves heard!

I think what I am referring to seems at the very least angry...I can see some of the kids cringing a bit and sometimes they look like they might cry

[jjane45]

I too have problems hearing my soft-spoken coach sometimes, lol. Haven't quite heard coaches at my rink yelling at students, recreational or competitive.

The only exception is a guest coach who speaks quite loudly and even sometimes abusively to students of all ages. (Turn, d*** it turn!) He is a good technical coach but the noisy curses are hard on my ears.

[Purple Sparkly]

My Czech coach was a yeller and guard-thrower for many, many years before I started working with her.  I started with her five years ago and I was told that she had mellowed considerably by then, but she still yelled more than any coach I had ever had.  She was very sick this past fall and now that she has made a full recovery, she is almost always sugar and sunshine.  I think perhaps she was in a lot of pain which made her more unpleasant.  Now she still has some pain, but she is much more pleasant and so much fun.

I can sometimes be loud as a coach, especially if I am giving correction across the ice, but I do try not to be a scary yeller.  I think there is a balance between being firm and effective and being scary.  Also there may be a foreign accent requirement for angry yellers.  I would expect Eastern European/Soviet coaches to be more "mean and scary" because fear is the culture in those countries.

[Hanca]

I have had several coaches since I started skating and I found out that actually I work better if someone shouts at me. It is hard to explain why; I would never believe it about myself until I tried. One of my past coaches was like that and before I had her I was really scared of her, when I saw her shouting at her students. Then on my first lesson I told her that it is not a good idea to raise her voice on me because I may freeze and not be able to do anything. At first she tried hard not to; then one day I was running through my program while preparing for competition and she skated the whole time behind me while shouting about things that were not to her liking (where are you looking, stretch the free leg, hold that longer etc) and it was my cleanest program ever. The natural respect (or fear???) made me skate so well!!!     Since then I was happy when she raised her voice, because I knew that it was working for me, although I still don't know why. I wasn't scared of that coach generally, but when someone is shouting at you, it helps to 'persuade you' to do what they are saying. You may think you would obey even without the shouting, but with the shouting your will is somehow much more determined to do what the coach says.

I know that when training in the army they encourage them by shouting, so there must be something to it.
  

[fsk8r]

My coach told me that when she was coaching synchro her team new that shouting was normal and the "can I have a quiet word" meant you were in BIG trouble. She's moved rink and we don't have synchro, but when the kids put on a synchro routine for a group number, I heard a lot of complaints that she was "scary."

Most of them time with me she doesn't shout, but every now and then she does. The first time she did it, she apologised afterwards and said that she only did it to those skaters who she knew would respond. It was her way of saying that I was in the competitive group, which was nice given that I'm an adult.

[Teresa]

Yeller vs. non yeller is not an issue in my opinion. It's tone and how the words that said are.

Teresa

[isakswings]

It seems common around here that all the coaches who have the most successful competitive skaters are yellers.   Is this JUST the way it is in figure skating?  Many of these locally coaches are Russian, Ukaranian....etc. 

Funny... at dd's rink the coach I hear yelling the most is American. Dd's jump coach is Czechoslovakian I haven't heard him yell. I've heard he has on occasion but honestly, I have yet to hear him do it.  I understand being firm and I don't have a problem with a coach speaking loudly or firmly... but not to the point of upsetting my child. I also do not want my kid belittled. The yeller I referred to has drawn negative attention. Some parents get very offended by the behavior... these are parents of students who do not take from that coach. That type of coaching works well for some skaters, my skater would not do well. She would shut down! She's very shy and doesn't talk much to people she doesn't know. Her jump coach says he has to listen carefully to hear her talk. LOL! To answer your question, I do not think it is common, but it does happen.

[FigureSpins]

Either you temper your behavior as a coach or you accept the fact that only skaters can tolerate your behavior will choose you as a coach.  Perhaps that's what we're seeing the end result of in this topic and assuming that the yelling coach makes the competitive skaters better at skating.

I will chase the skater and call out things loudly, like "turn the shoulders," "PUSH," "You're not turning enough," "You didn't PUSH!" lol.  But I won't yell "Are you crazy?" or "Move your ***" as some coaches do.  I don't think you discipline through embarrassment, although it's almost unavoidable in synchro or groups.

For me, it works better to stop the skater and address the issue quietly, one-on-one if the reminders aren't working, as my example shows.

I have several students on a synchro team, which I do not coach.  Their coach last year was a college student who I thought was really sweet and nice.    I couldn't believe the stories the girls told me after the season was over, about the coach mocking them, yelling at them, and berating them.  I actually said "Nah, she was just trying to be heard above the other teams' music." 

One of the parents told me that the girls weren't embellishing - they had listened several times after their kids complained and the coach was not only loud, but mean! Rather than say something to the coaches, they instead told their kids to just brush it off because (again, life lessons!) they felt it was important for the kids to learn how to deal with someone they didn't like who was in a position of authority.  As one mom told me, "There will always be a teacher, a coach, or a boss that you won't like, but you have to accept and deal with."   I learned a life lesson that day and my own kids have benefitted from their wisdom.  I have THE BEST skating parents and students.  But, they're recreational skaters, not the competitive skaters that the OP is admiring. 

Raising your voice is always a cultural thing but it's also a learned behavior.  I have a friend whose coach was a yeller and she (as a coach) is a yeller, but her family is so quiet, it's out of character.  My coach was German and is still yelling after all these years.  That's how her mother coached, that's how she coaches.  Her father's quiet, but everyone else is loud, loud, loud.  I fit right in!  I don't think the yelling does anything for her coaching, but I always felt comfortable yelling back, lol.  (When she was a Director, I taught groups for her one season.  I told her to stop yelling at the instructors in front of the students because it undermined our authority.  She hadn't even thought of that - she comes from a loud family.)

I think that the skaters who have the attitude to reach the top of the heap can deal with the yelling and the brow-beating.  It's a chicken-and-egg scenario: which comes first?  Is the yelling coach really the most talented coach or is s/he starting with skaters that have talent?

[fsk8r]

I will chase the skater and call out things loudly, like "turn the shoulders," "PUSH," "You're not turning enough," "You didn't PUSH!" lol.  But I won't yell "Are you crazy?" or "Move your ***" as some coaches do.  I don't think you discipline through embarrassment, although it's almost unavoidable in synchro or groups.

Perhaps this is a cultural thing, but when you talk about yelling, I'm thinking shouting / calling things loudly and not that a coach would be shouting things that belittle the skater... But I also come from a rink where there's a policy of no swearing on the ice (there's children around), and am shocked at what passes as acceptable at other rinks (I've heard of a synchro coach swearing at her team which consisted of teenagers).

However, we do have loud coaches telling skaters to push and some of these skaters may be in tears. However are they upset at the coach or upset with themselves? Are the tears just frustration that they can't do something? I've also speculated that possibly given the age of some of the competitive skaters (I very rarely see tears from recreational skaters unless they have just had a nasty fall) that some of it may be hormonal.

[Isk8NYC]

It could be a bit of everything you mentioned. 


I like the "no cursing" rule.  I also like it when coaches say "sweep the table" rather than "put your boobs on the table" for the camel entrance when they're teaching young girls.   Especially when I'm teaching a pair of seven-year old hockey kids or a preschooler nearby.

[jumpingbeansmom]

Perhaps this is a cultural thing, but when you talk about yelling, I'm thinking shouting / calling things loudly and not that a coach would be shouting things that belittle the skater... But I also come from a rink where there's a policy of no swearing on the ice (there's children around), and am shocked at what passes as acceptable at other rinks (I've heard of a synchro coach swearing at her team which consisted of teenagers).

However, we do have loud coaches telling skaters to push and some of these skaters may be in tears. However are they upset at the coach or upset with themselves? Are the tears just frustration that they can't do something? I've also speculated that possibly given the age of some of the competitive skaters (I very rarely see tears from recreational skaters unless they have just had a nasty fall) that some of it may be hormonal.

I am talking about things like abruptly stopping skaters music during run through and screaming across the rink "I said double flip DOUBLE loop, NOT single loop"  to which skater says something like, I didn't feel I had enough momentum...and is abruptly cut off with.."I don't want to HEAR it". 

OR

something like this "You are skating like one of the babies, stand up straight, stroke harder..." in a yelling voice.   

I believe the skater (a kid) took these as demeaning..  It again, may be a cultural/language thing as well.

[Isk8NYC]

THat's what I thought you meant. 

I have taught skaters in groups or camps that make excuses constantly and never really give any real effort unless it comes easily to them.  It's hard to motivate them, and sometimes you have to say "that's not a reason, it's an excuse."  Still, I would prefer that the coach discipline on the side instead of announcing it across the entire rink.  It's distracting and creates a very hostile environment.

If you speak to them about it, some people will get defensive and say "But that's my style."  The Club or Rink has to set the tone at that point.

[jumpingbeansmom]

THat's what I thought you meant. 

I have taught skaters in groups or camps that make excuses constantly and never really give any real effort unless it comes easily to them.  It's hard to motivate them, and sometimes you have to say "that's not a reason, it's an excuse."  Still, I would prefer that the coach discipline on the side instead of announcing it across the entire rink.  It's distracting and creates a very hostile environment.

If you speak to them about it, some people will get defensive and say "But that's my style."  The Club or Rink has to set the tone at that point.

I just wonder, if once you start parsing out the coaches that really have the ability to bring along a talented competitive skater, if that is all you are left with-- here it seems all the coaches with very successful students are like this.

[Isk8NYC]

Not a bad assessment, but it's one-sided: it means that the skaters can take the heat from the coach.  Makes sense, right?  They have to be tough to perfect their skills and fight through obstacles.

However, it doesn't say that the coach is any better or worse.  There are plenty of good coaches who don't scream at students.

I don't think we have a single coach at our rink right now who screams or yells as the OP described.  We had two skaters qualify for Nationals and the Intermediate Ladies roster at our upcoming competition is going to be exciting, with strong skaters from six different coaches.  None of whom yell or scream, lol.

I don't think yelling and screaming makes the coaches any better, nor does it affect the skater - most tune out the yelling, so it affects the bystanders more.  Is it a psychological strategy to accustom the skater to screaming, so they won't get distracted during a competition?  *shrugs*

Sometimes, people are sheep: if they perceive the screaming coach to be better, or the Russian coach to be better, or the quiet coach to be better, that's who they'll seek out for their skater.  If parents see that Janey is rocking the house in Intermediate and she takes from Yurij, only Yurij will do for their skater!  They might overlook Mary, rocking the house two points below because she takes from Christina on a different day. 

I think people who want to believe in a coach, will believe in him/her, and that in turn drives the coach to be better, which inspires the student.  Nothing to do with screaming or yelling, though.  It's entirely a personality issue.

[kssk8fan]

Yelling at a skater or any athlete (in a negative manner) is wrong!  In the short term, it may get something out of the athlete b/c of fear, but in the long run it will likely cause burn out and a hatred of the sport.  At the very least it will cause negative feelings towards the sport, self-esteem, confidence, and ultimately fear.  There has been so much research done on coaching kids and the ways to do this so that the kids stay in their chosen sport for the long haul. 

The soviets were notorious for producing exceptional athletes by inducing an amount of fear into them.  So what if your little kid can do a triple lutz at 9 if they quit at 11 because they've had enough of being yelled at, humiliated, and are scared to death to enter the rink on lesson day!!!  Does this happen??  Absolutely, in just about any sport imaginable! 

Your top level coaches aren't yellers (negative yellers).  When I say top, I mean TOP, not just a coach that can say he/she sent a few skaters to nationals.  They may be "shouters", that's different!  They also may be very disciplined and extremely strict but they aren't mean!  For instance, there may be a TOP level coach that demands push-ups on the ice if you pop a jump.  That's not mean.....that's helping the kid to realize they shouldn't pop a jump.  There may be coaches that stop a skaters music b/c they see the kid isn't trying.  If they aren't trying, what's the point of running through their program.  However, like I said...."TOP" level coaches aren'y mean nor are they yellers (Negative yellers). 

Here's an example that has nothing to do with athletics.....Would you ever keep your child in a math class at school if the teacher constantly yelled, humiliated or berated them in public when they made a mistake or got the wrong answer even if that teacher produced good math results???  I wouldn't - no way!

[Query]

In answer to the original question, as far as I can tell, yelling at skating students is very uncommon.

BTW, I've had 7 Russian or ex-Soviet block coaches in various sports, for various lengths of time. Stereotypes aside, none yelled or screamed in my presence, though some permanently dropped unpromising students.

The one genuinely abusive skating coach I have observed was banned by several rinks, and no longer teaches.

(But, a speed skating coach with Olympic connections, whom I never saw teach, accused of verbal and physical abuse, was banned from a local club and rink. I think ambitious parents formed another club at another rink, and took the coach with them. Poor kids.)

Some coaches use non-abusive ways to encourage students to work harder:

• gentle teasing
• pointing out a skater who does something better
• speaking in a strict manner, like a school teacher
• threatening to drop student from that day's lesson, and doing so if needed

In my personal opinion:

Yelling and screaming are pathological, except to warn of imminent danger.

Calm, polite, mature behavior is usually the best approach.

[Sk8tmum]

Well, my kid's coach is a yeller, and a loud one: she is also tough as hell, demanding, and very critical. She yells a lot of those things that you guys have been commenting on.

She produces top skaters. She also produces polite, respectful, tough, and very resilient individuals-who-happen-to-be-skaters.

Her skaters still come back to see her to share life triumphs, celebrations, mourn over tragedies; invite her to their and their children's weddings; and send their own children to her to coach. Many are life-long skaters; some go back 30 years. She has been named as a positive influence in the lives of some - very famous - skaters. She has produced a line of strong, effective and well-regarded coaches - some of whom yell, and some of whom don't.

It's her style,  it works for her, and that's just the way it is. The rink's skaters a) respect her and b) are absolutely ecstatic when they get a compliment, as she hands them out only when deserved.

A calm polite style wouldn't work with my kid as well. It works with my other kid and her coach is calm and polite. It's about picking the coach that suits your skater.

[jjane45]

Your top level coaches aren't yellers (negative yellers).  When I say top, I mean TOP, not just a coach that can say he/she sent a few skaters to nationals.  They may be "shouters", that's different! 

I like this distinction!

[techskater]

Well, my kid's coach is a yeller, and a loud one: she is also tough as hell, demanding, and very critical. She yells a lot of those things that you guys have been commenting on.

She produces top skaters. She also produces polite, respectful, tough, and very resilient individuals-who-happen-to-be-skaters.

It's her style,  it works for her, and that's just the way it is. The rink's skaters a) respect her and b) are absolutely ecstatic when they get a compliment, as she hands them out only when deserved.

The best coach at our rink is similar to this.  (He's had skaters all through the ranks and winning National Championships for other countries but, unfortunately, not so far in the Senior ranks in the US).  The most interesting thing is if he sees effort (ie that you are trying to do what he asks), but just aren't quite getting it, he yells a lot less.  In addition, the more talent you have, the more likely he is to be LOUD and CRITICAL. 

[Teresa]

I wasn't going to say anything else...couldn't help myself. A coach can push a student without making a student feel badly about themself. A good coach knows their student and knows how best to push them. Sometimes this may be yelling but it should always be done with thought., "How best to push my skater." A good coach knows how to motivate and thus is rewarded by disiplined and motivated skaters. I've seen skaters come and go and the skaters who stay and love the sport feel good about themselves, skating and their coach.

Sucessful students are self motivated with or without a good coach. A good coach works hand and hand with this and makes a great student/coach team. 

[kssk8fan]

Teresa, you're absolutely correct!!  Our top level skaters may not have had the most success in the lower ranks but they were self -motivated enough to continue on in the sport, stick it out, and rise to the top.  I really think kids that have been humiliated or berated, regardless of how good they are/were stop participating way before they get to the top!   This topic has been researched more in gymnastics but the same statistics would apply in skating, I think. 

I don't think successful athletes are coddled but I know they haven't been berated and humiliated over and over again by the very person that is responsible for teaching and coaching them!  A successful partnership has gotten athletes to the top.  Mutual respect, trust and a common goal is what makes superior athletes these days.

[davincisop]

What I love about my coach is she is a yeller when she needs to be, but not in a mean or degrading way. I tend to overthink when I jump and therefore screw them up frequently, and she can tell when I start to overthink so she will shout "DON'T THINK!" when I'm skating or when I was perfecting my bronze moves she'd shout "HOLD THE EDGE LONGER". I was afraid that yelling would upset me but it's not in a mean spirited way at all, it's just so I hear it and I skate better when she does it.

I had one Russian coach one time that was teaching our group number that yelled at me for being a half hour late to the practice. I was late because the lady in the office that was giving us the times told us the incorrect time, so I came at the time she told me.
The Russian coach later apologized and really did feel bad about making me cry (I was 13 and a very delicate person lol) and all was well. I made sure after that to double check the rehearsal times with her.

[Schmeck]

I am talking about things like abruptly stopping skaters music during run through and screaming across the rink "I said double flip DOUBLE loop, NOT single loop"  to which skater says something like, I didn't feel I had enough momentum...and is abruptly cut off with.."I don't want to HEAR it". 

OR

something like this "You are skating like one of the babies, stand up straight, stroke harder..." in a yelling voice.   

I believe the skater (a kid) took these as demeaning..  It again, may be a cultural/language thing as well.

I actually see nothing wrong with these quotes - Figure skating is a competitive SPORT, not a gym class, and if you want to compete (really compete, not just dabble recreationally, in nonqualifying levels, etc) then you have to be prepared to be pushed.  It sounds like there's a lack of concentration and effort on the part of the skater, and if I was that skater's mom, I'd want her to be spoken to pretty firmly too.

  It used to frustrate me to no end when some of the girls in synchro would be screwing around when they should have been working on elements, or doing a run through of a program with no effort put into it.  That's a team sport though, and if you are on the team, you should be there to win.