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Offline lutefisk

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Ice dance book
« on: January 05, 2017, 11:12:28 AM »
Does anyone have a copy of Ice Dancing Illustrated by Lorna Dyer?  If so, please comment.  This is an older book (1980); I'm wondering if it has useful content for those of us working on low level pattern dances.  It's certainly cheap enough (starting at $3.15, plus shipping from various Amazon affiliates) to appeal to my thrifty nature.

Offline Query

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 06:25:13 PM »
If you are very thrifty, you could try an inter-library loan from various sources, found by WorldCat.

But it probably will cost your library money to get it, or you money, if you drive to get it.

Perhaps buying it could be your one major skating splurge for the year? :)

Offline lutefisk

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 10:25:34 AM »


Perhaps buying it could be your one major skating splurge for the year? :)

I'll have to think it over.   $3.15 is more than half the price of a geezer-discounted ice pass at the rink.

Offline Loops

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2017, 01:55:14 PM »
I'll have to think it over.   $3.15 is more than half the price of a geezer-discounted ice pass at the rink.

Looks like its on you, mate, to splurge and report back to us!  ;)

Happy New year!

Offline lutefisk

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2017, 06:02:07 PM »
Thanks Loops!  Back at ya!  Book is on order.  Watch this space.

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 03:35:33 PM »
Looking forward to your review!

Offline lutefisk

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2017, 08:43:04 AM »
Looking forward to your review!

Might be a while.  Amazon suggests a delivery date somewhere between tomorrow and maybe the end of the month.  I thought drones were speedier than that!  Probably need to be a "prime" customer in order to have an old book dropped (rapidly) on my head... but I will report back once the book is in my hands.

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2017, 11:22:14 AM »
I rec'd my copy of this book in yesterday's mail.  At first glance it is very detailed.  How useful all this detail actually is remains to be seen.  After a brief two page introductory chapter, Chapter Two, entitled "General Instruction" dives into the following:  Posture, Lean, Lead, Flow and Stroking, Back-to-forward transition, General Technique, Unison, Introductions to dances, Comments on patterns, Tracking and tracker, Knee action, and Etiquette.  Other Chapters provide incite to Dance Positions, Dance Steps, Dance Turns, Beginning Dances (the RB is not listed but that is no doubt a reflection of the passage of time since this book was published in1980), Intermediate Dances, Advanced Dances, International Dances, plus Dance diagram abbreviations and symbols and a Glossary.  There is a blizzard of small photos which attempt to capture key technique elements--it is always dubious as to whether or not authors of any book are able to capture the flow of a complex action with a series of still photos, but hopefully these authors occasionally succeeded.  Close examination will reveal whether they did or not. 

While no book can replace good coaching, if I learn a handful of things or just clean up a bit of fuzzy coach-to-student logic by reading, then it will have easily returned the purchase price ($3.15).  Actually, the shipping charge cost more than the book.  My hard bound copy came with a little card from the publisher indicating an error in this first edition involving the transposition of two figure captions, but if that's the only production goof then they are well above average and at least they took the time to point out the mistake.  So at first impression this book, while dated, is dense with information that will no doubt require careful reading and rereading.  I'm not worried that the information is 37+ years old; pattern dances, like the ice we skate on, probably hasn't changed much--and at this juncture "Ice Dancing Illustrated" is the only book addressing the subject of compulsory dances that I've tripped across.   

Offline lutefisk

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2017, 03:26:56 PM »
I've just read Chapter Two and I already have my money back.  Anything more will be gravy.  My recommendation?  If you're a beginning ice dancer, like me, or even a mid-level ice dancer then you will benefit from picking up a copy of this book.  OTOH, if you're way up the ice dance feeding chain and working on your Intergalactic test level dances, then probably not.  The subjects of free dance and original dance are also not covered.  Bottom line:  get a copy now while they're cheap and easily available.  It'll probably be another 37 years before anyone produces another ice dance book with more meat than this one. 

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 03:35:03 PM »
Thank you for the review!  I just ordered a copy, too. 

Offline lutefisk

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 09:18:27 AM »
Thank you for the review!  I just ordered a copy, too.

I hope you find it as instructive as it is for me.

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 02:45:39 PM »
I don't even ice dance (yet) and I just ordered a copy based on your review!  (How could I pass up a skating book for $3?)

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 05:53:37 PM »
Hmmm. It may be possible that Ice Dance has changed enough that a 1980 book might not be completely "right" by current standards. E.g., I've been told that ice dance hold position standards, and the way tracking works, have changed somewhat since the 1990s. The scoring system has changed too.

But I'm glad you love your skating splurge for the year.

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 06:02:50 PM »
Hmmm. It may be possible that Ice Dance has changed enough that a 1980 book might not be completely "right" by current standards. E.g., I've been told that ice dance hold position standards, and the way tracking works, have changed somewhat since the 1990s. The scoring system has changed too.

But I'm glad you love your skating splurge for the year.

I was thinking the same thing BUT in the end that is a good book.

If you are going to take ice-dance from a coach it would be best not to argue with anything they say that might be different than the book because things have changed from 1980!!

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 08:48:28 PM »
Is there a link to the $3 version?  I couldn't find it on amazon.  Pattern dances haven't changed, so basic techniques, partnering and holds remain the same.  Its really Free Dance that's changed drastically in the past years.  Id buy it just for the illustrations.
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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 09:07:09 PM »
Here's the link I used, but it looks like the cheapest one available is now $10.  Still a bargain!

https://www.amazon.com/Ice-Dancing-Illustrated-Lorna-Dyer/dp/0960261605/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484705155&sr=8-1&keywords=Ice+Dancing+Illustrated

Offline lutefisk

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2017, 09:35:52 PM »
Honest:  I didn't mean to start a price jump!  Still a good book for a ten spot.  I'll bet this book has sat on the shelf for the past 10 years at $3.00 A copy...

Offline lutefisk

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2017, 09:39:15 PM »
I was thinking the same thing BUT in the end that is a good book.

If you are going to take ice-dance from a coach it would be best not to argue with anything they say that might be different than the book because things have changed from 1980!!

Maybe so, but every thing I've read so far seems rather familiar!  Oh, and I never argue with my coach--she doubles as my partner during tests!

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2017, 10:10:51 PM »
Well, that's good!!

Actually the pattern dances have changed quite a lot since 1980 - the introduction of three dances - Rhythm Blues, Hickory Hoedown and Cha-cha in about 1992, elimination of the Three-Lobe Waltz from the Pre-Gold dances, the pattern of the Viennese and the Killian and Silver Tango (also known as Harris Tango or just plain Tango), and probably a few others - the Starlight Waltz going from the International level to Pre-Gold and the introduction of the International Dances - these are just some of the changes.  The switching of the levels in the Preliminary, Pre-Bronze and Bronze dances, too!

The other thing that I have noticed over the years is basically the style or rigidity of the dancers has changed a lot through the years - the older skaters from the 50s and 60s honestly being more "fluid" and having better knees, etc. - there have been quite a lot of changes...

Not that anyone really cares, though!

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2017, 08:59:04 AM »
Hi Icedancer:  Yes, I noticed that the Cha-Cha was also missing.  But for me there is plenty in this book to think about.  I read a section and then reflect on what ice dance coach has me doing.  I'm hopeful that this will make me a more observant pupil.  When I get a little time I'll photograph the Table of Contents pages and post those pix on my blog spot.  That way peeps can better decide if they want to add an old book to their collections or not.

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2017, 10:31:03 AM »
Well, bummer about the Cha Cha as that's one of the dances I am working on right now.  Still, the chapter 2 overview alone sounded like it was worth the money.  I opted for the $5 copy just because the condition rating sounded a bit better than the $3 copy.  When I bought mine, there was a listing for $3, $5, $10 and then it started going up from there.  I bet these booksellers are wondering why this book started 'flying off the shelves', so to speak!

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2017, 05:41:48 PM »
I contributed to the reduction of low price volumes.

Yes I'm in with the 90's. I have a skating blog. http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2017, 10:31:10 PM »
At the low prices, they were likely used copies, though they might have been new ones that never sold. There is always a limited supply of such things. A sufficient number of ice dancers belong to skatingforums exists to grab the cheap ones.

Besides, an opportunist might have bought the cheap ones after they saw the o.p.'s post, and resold them for a profit now.

----

One specific thing I understood to have changed since the 1990's (as taught by someone who competed up to about 1980, and by his students) was Waltz position hold, and the way it was lead/followed.

People used to say that you should be offset to the side from your partner, and should look over their shoulder. For example, some people would say that the forward skater should be offset to the inside of the arc. One of the aspects of "backwards skater leads" was that the backwards-moving-skater would set the arc on which he or she skated, and the forwards-moving-skater would move to the inside of that arc. For very good skaters, especially in Europian (e.g., Russian) style, the forwards skater might catch up to be more or less along-side the backwards skater, hips touching or almost touching - a very close body position. When they changed lobe directions, the forwards skater would back off enough to move to the inside of the new lobe, and catch up on that side. (Note - I never quite understood all the aspects of "backwards skater leads. There may have been more to it than what I just said.)

There were other couples who chose to keep the forwards skater on the outside of the arc.

And some couples didn't look straight over the the shoulders - they might have looked a bit into the circle.

These kinds of variation helped separate the style of one couple from another.

But, last I looked, the rules are now quite explicit. In Waltz position, you are supposed to look head-on into the eyes of your partner, rather than be offset, and not look over the shoulder at all.

Another issue that I think has changed is music. I think there is a lot more variety now, as well as liberalized rules with respect to lyrics, as is true of freestyle.

Perhaps other people here with more expertise can comment on some other changes?

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2017, 09:49:40 AM »
I'll be interested to hear what others think of this book once they actually have a copy in their hands.  I remain pleased with my purchase.  Does anyone know the current status of the main author, Lorna Dyer?  Is she still skating; perhaps teaching?

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Re: Ice dance book
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2017, 05:27:35 PM »
Based on her Wikipedia entry, she'd be 71 now. That's not an impediment to coaching, but I couldn't find a coach with that name. Mind you she may have married, so I searched "Lorna skating coach" and only found them in Canada and the UK.

No listing for someone like her on facebook.
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