Editing Music for Skating

[FigureSpins]

I once had a coach who could edit music on the Garden State Parkway using a two-deck cassette player.  She was going from one rink to the next and the music needed to be done for a lesson.  It was perfect - you couldn't even hear the TWO cuts she spliced together. 

Did I mention that she was driving?   (I was following her in another car and didn't realize what she was doing.  I'm literally laughing OUT LOUD at the memory of this harrowing ride.)

On that note, what do you use for editing music these days and how do you choose where to dice-and-splice the songs?

[FigureSpins]

I use a music editing program called "Audio Surgeon."  It works fine for me and I've had it for years - it cost $40 when I bought it ages ago.  You can mark the song with notations, fade them in/out when you splice so it's a clean-sounding cut, and make the song louder or softer in parts.

The "epic fail" of Audiosurgeon is that it doesn't output the finished song in MP3 format, so I have to save it as a WMA format file and then use iTunes or Windows Media Player to change formats.  It's a PITA and an extra step that's no fun when you're in a rush.


At an ISI Seminar, someone presented a session on music editing and the best tip I got from that was to overlay the segments to be spliced, I think it's called "Mix Paste" so that the original portion fades out quickly as the new portion fades in at the same rate.  It eliminates the "bloop" or gap that you often hear in badly-edited songs.

[FigureSpins]

My favorite tip, which I think someone on skatingforums version 1 supplied, is creating a 10-second song that's just silence.  I put it on my practice CDs before the skater's music, so there are two tracks on the CD.  It lets the skater put their music on without asking someone else to press the play button.  When you press "play," you have 10 seconds to get to the starting spot for the program. 

For competition CDs, I only put the skater's music track on the disc. 

[scootie12]

For my novice program, I did something kinda unorthodox, but it worked out GREAT.

I used Windows Movie Maker and cut up my music there.  I would overlay the music and always fade out the clip so there wouldn't be some abrupt sound during the transition.  I would overlay similar sounding parts of the music in order to have a nice transition.  I took a 15 minute piece and cut it into 3 minutes, and you would never know any of the music was spliced together.  Plus, I like that it's easy to take a whole section of music to move around, especially when overlapping with other music so you can keep listening until the edit sounds perfect.

After I save the video file, I simply go into a great program "Music Editor Free" and convert the video to MP3.  From there, I'll use the editing program to make certain parts of the music louder or softer...It's so easy to do, and the finished product sounds great.

It might seem like an odd way to do it, but it worked out perfectly for me, and I have a great cut of music as the end-result.  Might seem out to use the video editing software first, but the conversion to MP3 literally takes less than a minute.  Plus, I'm very familiar with Windows Movie Maker, which helped, but honestly, it's pretty simple to use, so if any of you experiment, it'll catch on very quickly what you can do with it.

[TheAquarian]

I haven't needed it yet because I am still a beginner, however sound editing has been one of my hobbies for a few years.   I use Cool Edit which I believe became Adobe Audition.

[Mr. Fan]

My favorite tip, which I think someone on skatingforums version 1 supplied, is creating a 10-second song that's just silence.  I put it on my practice CDs before the skater's music, so there are two tracks on the CD.  It lets the skater put their music on without asking someone else to press the play button.  When you press "play," you have 10 seconds to get to the starting spot for the program. 

For competition CDs, I only put the skater's music track on the disc. 

I do that too. Although, now I'm thinking it should have some audio on it instead of pure silence, since I once had a coach pull my CD out and put her student's in during the silence, since she thought no one was using the machine.

For comparison, I use GoldWave ($40) at a pretty basic level.  I do ice dance, and so make plenty of use of the function that changes tempo without changing pitch.

[FigureSpins]

Are there any programs that let you speed up or slow down songs?  Sometimes when I cut music, I just need to shave off/add on a few more seconds and the best solution would be to play the song a little faster/slower.

When we used cassettes, I could do that, so software packages should allow it, right?
(Audio Surgeon doesn't have that feature, afaik.)


It would also be nice to be able to create a s-l-o-w-e-r version of the music for the first few practices.

[FigureSpins]

I do that too. Although, now I'm thinking it should have some audio on it instead of pure silence, since I once had a coach pull my CD out and put her student's in during the silence, since she thought no one was using the machine.

When we had to use cassettes, which had built-in blank leaders, we used to put a "bleep" followed by a second or two of silence so you knew to be ready for the start of the music.  No one does that anymore because of the timing rules, it's not worth taking a chance.

[Sk8Dreams]

I use Audacity, which is free.  Unfortunately, I haven't taken the time to really get to know it, and have only done exactly what I needed to do with it.

[MimiG]

I use Audacity as well and quite like it. It will let you speed up and slow down the tempo of a piece without changing the pitch (or with changing it if that's what you want...) It has a ton of other useful features as well.

[aussieskater]

Are there any programs that let you speed up or slow down songs?  It would also be nice to be able to create a s-l-o-w-e-r version of the music for the first few practices.

Another vote for Audacity.  I use it to cut multiple versions of my compulsory dance music - one at 70% tempo, one at 80% tempo, one at 90% tempo, one at 100% (normal) tempo, and one at 105% tempo.   While I'm learning the dance, I work my way up through the versions.  I figure that if I can do the dance correctly and cover the ice at 105%, then 100% will feel easy come test time!!

[katz in boots]

Audacity vote here.  Free, easy (once you take the time to get to know it) and has a good range of editing options.
I use it to speed up/slow down music, edit tracks together, fade in/out at changes of music, change pitch.  And convert to MP3 for itunes or whatever.
Did I mention it is free?

 

[FigureSpins]

I downloaded Audacity yesterday and used it to cut some music for a student's program.  I liked it a lot.  I was able to increase the volume at the beginning and end of the piece since it was clipped mid-song.  When the cut song came up a few seconds too long, I was able to "speed it up" so that it fit the allowed length.

I had to download another thing that allowed MP3 exports, but that was painless.

The only odd thing was that, when I went to burn the MP3 to CD, it switched me over to Windows Media.  I knew how to use it, so it wasn't a big deal, but I have to check and see if Audacity burns to disc directly.  Maybe I just chose the wrong option.

Oh, and I saw there was an option to remove vocals - haven't tried it, don't know if it works, but it was intriguing.

[sk8tegirl06]

The only odd thing was that, when I went to burn the MP3 to CD, it switched me over to Windows Media.  I knew how to use it, so it wasn't a big deal, but I have to check and see if Audacity burns to disc directly.  Maybe I just chose the wrong option.

I've haven't burned any CDs in awhile, but I don't think Audacity will burn the disc directly. It saves as an Audacity project, which means nothing when trying to burn to a CD. I've always converted formats, saved to Itunes, and burned the final product there.

[Sierra]

Another vote for Audacity. I wanted to get a head start on learning to find and cut music :angel so I downloaded Audacity and tooled around with songs.

I had to download another thing that allowed MP3 exports, but that was painless.

The only odd thing was that, when I went to burn the MP3 to CD, it switched me over to Windows Media.  I knew how to use it, so it wasn't a big deal, but I have to check and see if Audacity burns to disc directly.  Maybe I just chose the wrong option.

Oh, and I saw there was an option to remove vocals - haven't tried it, don't know if it works, but it was intriguing.

I didn't bother to use the mp3 export thingy. I just export it as WAV. I can still open it in iTunes, and put it on iPod and a CD. Is there some disadvantage to WAV??

I tried to burn a cut song onto a CD using Media and it wouldn't work. Tried to fix the error using FAQ and ran up against more errors. I know I've burned songs through Media before, so no clue why it didn't work this time. I had to use itunes to burn.

I think the removing vocals is hit or miss. Everything I've googled and read says it depends on the individual song makeup. It didn't work on one song I tried, but haven't tried other songs yet.


Once I find a piece I like I listen to it over and over and over and over, and eventually a natural place to cut out will stick out. I have some 1:40 cuts already, to audition for coach next season. Just making her life easier :angel
I can't figure out how to merge music together though.. I've tried to find similar places then zoom in and cut out exactly the start of a note and paste it to the exact end of another note, but it never goes together smoothly. So far I've just been fading out one piece then fading in the new piece a second later. Can't figure out how people put pieces together with no pause in between?

[sk8tegirl06]

Another vote for Audacity. I wanted to get a head start on learning to find and cut music :angel so I downloaded Audacity and tooled around with songs.
I didn't bother to use the mp3 export thingy. I just export it as WAV. I can still open it in iTunes, and put it on iPod and a CD. Is there some disadvantage to WAV??

MP3 compresses the file to take up less space on the computer. For 1:30-1:40 you should be ok, but WAV files can be massive and take up significantly more space.

[Sierra]

MP3 compresses the file to take up less space on the computer. For 1:30-1:40 you should be ok, but WAV files can be massive and take up significantly more space.

Oh okay. Guess I'm downloading the converter sometime in the future. Thanks!

[Purple Sparkly]

I can't figure out how to merge music together though.. I've tried to find similar places then zoom in and cut out exactly the start of a note and paste it to the exact end of another note, but it never goes together smoothly. So far I've just been fading out one piece then fading in the new piece a second later. Can't figure out how people put pieces together with no pause in between?

I select a section that I don't want, then delete it.  I listen to the merged music (without looking at the screen so I don't know the cut is coming) and if it isn't to my liking, I undo and adjust my selection until I can't hear the cut.  Sometimes I am doing this for 5-10 minutes, but one time I got lucky and got it on the first or second try.  That was awesome because I remember I was a in a big hurry that particular day.  I think I cut a 1:30 program in about 5 minutes.

It is more difficult if you are merging two tracks instead of just cutting a section from one piece.  In this case, I would copy and paste the second piece into the track with the first piece and do the above.

I decide where to cut it by listening to the piece(s) over and over again.  Sometimes it just takes some trial and error.  A lot of times I find that I am so accustomed to what the music is supposed to sound like that my cut will sound strange no matter what I do.  In those cases, I walk away for a while and try again later.

I use Audacity also and I like the idea of making a program or dance music slower during the learning process.  I might try that but I tend to be rather close with my CDs.  For some reason I am afraid of using them all up and having to buy a new spool.

[aussieskater]

I like the idea of making a program or dance music slower during the learning process.  I might try that but I tend to be rather close with my CDs.  For some reason I am afraid of using them all up and having to buy a new spool.

Since Audacity is quick to use to re-tempo music, I cut each compulsory dance track several times in the same sitting (say at 70% of speed, 80%, 90%, 100% and 105%.  The 105% is for test time - if I can do it decently at 105% then test speed in theory won't faze me!)  Once they're all cut,  I load them all on the mp3 player.  You could also burn them all onto the one CD, and save using up blanks?

[Purple Sparkly]

Since Audacity is quick to use to re-tempo music, I cut each compulsory dance track several times in the same sitting (say at 70% of speed, 80%, 90%, 100% and 105%.  The 105% is for test time - if I can do it decently at 105% then test speed in theory won't faze me!)  Once they're all cut,  I load them all on the mp3 player.  You could also burn them all onto the one CD, and save using up blanks?

I could but there are, of course, a whole bunch of compulsory dances and several tracks for each, so I may need more than one CD, anyway.  Maybe I'll make a Pre-Silver/Silver CD and maybe just with two or three speeds.  That should last me a while.

[jjane45]

Playing with Audacity for the first time, I found it fairly easy to cut a middle piece out of a song, using fade in and fade out. But splicing is way more difficult, say cutting an extra 15 seconds out from somewhere to make the music within length always feels abrupt... Part of it is identifying pieces that can actually link to each other, but I must be missing the right effect to make smooth transitions other than cross fade in / out. Hints and tips, please?    

(PS I managed to cut 4 pieces to go over with Coach next lesson. Apparently my preference for music changes if I listen to it over and over...)

[Clarice]

Playing with Audacity for the first time, I found it fairly easy to cut a middle piece out of a song, using fade in and fade out. But splicing is way more difficult, say cutting an extra 15 seconds out from somewhere to make the music within length always feels abrupt... Part of it is identifying pieces that can actually link to each other, but I must be missing the right effect to make smooth transitions other than cross fade in / out. Hints and tips, please?    

I don't cross fade most of the time, I usually literally cut sections out.  I expand the track so that the wave forms spread out more - that way I can cut exactly where I want to.  Cutting in the "troughs" avoids extraneous pops and blips.  I also pay close attention to the beats of the music, and make sure I don't drop any (for instance, if I cut out after beat 3 in a bar, I make sure to cut back in with beat 4).  Are you at all musical?  I'm a professional musician, and I admit it helps in getting final cuts that sound like they were recorded that way in the first place.  All that theory class pays off sometimes!  If my final cut is a little too short or long, sometimes I speed up or slow down the entire track rather than recut - that only works if the tempo change isn't too much, though.  It's often a matter of knowing the structure of the music, so you know where the phrases are and therefore what can be removed so one thing flows smoothly into the next.  If the problem is a key change after a cut, you can transpose to keep everything in the same key and the cut will flow better.  Again, knowing music theory helps do that more quickly, but you can get it by trial and error.  Changing tempo and/or key can also help when cutting two different pieces of music together - again, the changes can't be too drastic.

In other words, getting good cuts is partly about skill with the editing program, but also about musicality.

[Sk8tmum]

This comes from one of the Ontario Sections of Skate Canada, and I've had similar language from other Sections:

1. General
i) Each compact disc shall be a standard CD-R compact disc and enclosed in a single transparent plastic CD case. (DO NOT
use CD-RW)
ii) Music on CD must be in CD Audio format (cda file). (NOT mp3; .acc or DVD)
iii) For quality it is recommended to burn only music files that are in wav format.

Be careful of using various formats.  Some players may not play them; I've had little girls in tears at comps because their coaches used a file that wouldn't play on the equipment provided.  Don't use a label: this can jam in some players.  Write on the CD with a CD marker, or use lightscribe technology.

Some comps specify all of the above parameters ... for a reason ... plus, of course, the critical back-up disc. Because music equipment can be random in quality, going for the most "safe" option is important.

[jjane45]

Are you at all musical?... getting good cuts is partly about skill with the editing program, but also about musicality.

Thank you very much for all the wonderful tips Clarice, it is so much help. Unfortunately, close to none in musicality here. Not even capable of identifying beats a lot of times (#1 reason I probably won't ice dance...), not much on music structure either. I will go by trial and error for now and hopefully try to get music theory 101 at some point. Recommended readings anyone?

The following link rates albums / tracks based on skateability, very cool. Turns out a track I picked had the lowest rating from that particular album. What do I know about skating music? LOL

http://www.sonicedgemusic.com/search.html

[Sierra]

Playing with Audacity for the first time, I found it fairly easy to cut a middle piece out of a song, using fade in and fade out. But splicing is way more difficult, say cutting an extra 15 seconds out from somewhere to make the music within length always feels abrupt... Part of it is identifying pieces that can actually link to each other, but I must be missing the right effect to make smooth transitions other than cross fade in / out. Hints and tips, please?    

(PS I managed to cut 4 pieces to go over with Coach next lesson. Apparently my preference for music changes if I listen to it over and over...)

I was just trying to figure this out recently  The fadeout-fadein sounded abrupt and interrupted flow, and simply cutting out, like Clarice said, wasn't applicable with the song I was working with. I figured out how to crossfade it so the first cut faded out while the second cut faded in. The crossfade tools under Effects in Audacity are useless.. you have to put the cuts on two different tracks, then drag them around, to achieve a true crossfade effect.

First make the cuts you want and save them. Then open a new Audacity and import the first cut. Then import the second one- it must be imported in, not pasted in. It should appear on a new track below, not next to, but below the first one. So there is two tracks, one below the other.
Now use the <--> tool. It's circled in red in the picture below. Use this to drag the second piece to the end of the first piece. Play it to see how it sounds, then mess with the position of the second piece and where to put fading out/in points at. When I did this with my piece, it eventually came out sounding seamless. (Coach approved the piece, so it really did come out very well).

Save it first as an Audacity project so you can always go back in and fiddle with the positions of the two tracks. This is because when you export it, it melds into one track, making it uneditable.

Here's a pic of what the tracks should look like: