Show fees and Costumes

[Poupounne]

Hi,  In October, They charged $100 per kids entry fee (a group number). Months later,we the parents had to buy a $75 dress that much of us did know but (the director kept the dresses). None of us(the parents) even knew how much the dress was going to cost us....Never disclose the price of the dress. Plus the kids had to sell 10 tickets at @ $7 per kids...that was for Christmas show. Since January the skating director changed the program...the second show was supposed to be in April....she,(the director) in January send a blast email and decided to change it to end of July, and charging us $75 per month for a show in JULY!!!

 Beginning in April ,we just now found out she wants and additional  $250 per kids(for entry fee and costumes) , she wants two more dresses with out disclosing the price and the kids still got to sell 10 tickets @ $10. Took 3 months to get more information....talk about bait and switch....Their is only 10 kids in that group number...I really wonder for whom there doing the show for....the kids or to build her resumee...Keeps telling the parents, the show will  have professional lights,professional music...these are kids!!! Kids don't care about lights,they just want to have  their friends and family over and  see them give a show.
That young skating director tells me, that it is normal for club members to pay for  a costume that the show co. or her personnel buisiness keep the costume for future shows.... I had never heard of that....I feel very uncomfortable forfeting the costumes for future shows...two mores costumes at $50 to $75 a piece for a July show....that SHE keeps!!!!! She already got a dress that cost us $75.....In my experience when I was a kid skating we either rented rental costumes for minimal charge or if we bought them we kept them.....We are looking at close to $700.00 per kids for a Kid show!
Your opinion would be greatly appreciate.

[Purple Sparkly]

My club has an annual show for our skaters and learn-to-skate classes.  It is very low key.  There is no extra charge to be in the show unless you want to do a solo and are not a club member, and then it is minimal ($15?).  Costumes are either something the skaters already have (such as black pants, red shirt), something they buy and keep, or they can rent costumes that the club has for $5.

Another club I am associated with had a simlar show.  The entry fee for group numbers was maybe $40 and included four hour-long practice sessions.  Costumes for group numbers were clothes the skaters likely already had, such as tie-dyed shirts.  The solo fee was maybe $20 and costumes and practices were the responsibility of the skater.

I agree that your show is becoming unnecessarily expensive for the skaters.  A $10 or so rental fee for the costumes would be fair if they are to be property of the club.

[AgnesNitt]

Is this a club or a rink?

[Skittl1321]

It seems a bit ridiculous that they keep adding costs- they need to be upfront about these things.

I'd also say that a $75 "rental fee" is a bit high for a costume, but I've been in dance performances that charge $50 for a costume you don't get to keep.  It pays for the original purchase, cleaning, alterations, and upkeep.  Depending on what the costume is, $75, may be reasonable... like if the costume costs $200...  If the club is NOT subsidizing the cost of the costume, as well as cleaning and altering it, I'd insist on keeping it.

The $100 fee is in line with other ice shows I've been in - I paid $75 to skate in a local show, that included a group number, plus the opening/finale. Costumes were seperate, but simple- I don't think I spent more than $100 in costumes for all 3.  Those fees cover rehearsal ice, show ice, coaches fees, music cutting, lights, taking the hockey glass down etc.  It sounds like your club is trying to put on a professional show.  That club got lucky they didn't have to rent the ice for 2 straight days because once props are up and the glass is down, no one else can use it- but the arena didn't charge for the full time the rink was down!   Thank goodness. 

But $700 per kid is insane.  How many numbers are they in?

Maybe someone needs to get to the board meeting and tell them the parents want a no frills show!  My current rink's club does those- no lights, no professional music editing, hockey glass stays up, kids provide their own costumes, groups usually just do pants and a matching t-shirt.  The fee is $10 for a group number and $30 for a solo, with a $10 added fee if you aren't a club member.

[Poupounne]

We are a very very small club,like 20 or so.....The Christmas show was done Thur  the Club but this summer extravaganza is done by the Skating Director her self .... I have tried to bring it up with the other parents and(the board).But, no one seems to want to say anything....Most of them agree with me that she is outrageous expensive...But keep quiet...The worst too...she wants to be paid in "Cash" for everything. ....

The skating director tells me it's normal for clubs to keep the dresses to bank them for futures use...well OK. but not at the prices! Maybe buy extra leotards or skirt at a very very discount wholesale price. But not at $75 a pop!!!! I keep saying they need a business plan and a reasonable budget!!!!

The ten girls are doing very small numbers a total of 3 numbers, not much skating,but mostly few steps there and there....

They practice one hour per week. That's 31 weeks! for a  Summer small show....To do couple numbers!?!? They can only do SO much for a number...

I feel the rink and the ice skating director is using the kids for financial gain...plain and simple.

I know skating, I was a former professional skater myself,in the late 80's. Retired from the sport long long time ago.
Now, I'm just a concerned mother

[Skittl1321]

31 weeks of practice??? That 1) makes the fee seem a bit more reasonable, as that is a lot of ice time, and 2) is absolutely insane. I think most shows around here have about 2 months of practice, maybe 3...

[JHarer]

My rink has a big show (Toy Story) for the LTS students, with solos for the high level skaters. It cost us $99 to participate if you signed up early or $120 if you signed up after a certain date. The fees covered; costumes, and 8 weeks of 30 minute once a week rehearsals.

[Skate@Delaware]

That seems a bit much.  My rink has a $75 fee plus you pay for your own costume, which you get to keep.  You must also sell 5 tickets (which you buy at $10 each).  There are 2-3 shows per year, none are mandatory.  There are typically 50+ kids in each show, from LTS and the private lessons, plus the feature skaters from U of Delaware. Costumes are either bought or made, and costs are kept as low as possible because many of the skaters are in many numbers.

I would think that some parents need to band together and raise a voice otherwise nothing will change. I'm sure many of the parents feel the same way about the costs.

[jjane45]

My rinks charge $80 or less for participation fees per skater per number, which includes rehearsal ice time and costume (rental or new). That being said, my area has tons of rinks and our show has hundreds of skaters...

Yours still sounds weird all the way, a small local show that's more expensive than competitions and practices forever? Heck, even elite skaters don't need this much time span for their competitive programs. Is your rink the only rink in 100 mile-radius? Do you have anyone else to compare to?

Something is especially fishy with the "cash" thing. Is there a higher authority you can check with? In the worst case scenario she may even run away with the cash since SHE runs the show? (Not the rink, not the club, really? Does she even pay for the ice rental from her pocket?)

[Poupounne]

I'll say about the only rink with a 50 to 75 miles radios....Not many ice rink here...
The ice rink manager is good friend with the ice skating director( He is a previous skater too).... It's seems that  they have all the connections for lights and sounds and video... He happens to own a sound and light co. on his  side job.... and the skating director boyfriend does the photography for the show....
When I mentioned to him (the manager),why don't they use simple clothing where all the mothers can find at any stores and just jazz them up...he's reply was..."I will not have my  shows wearing Wallmart stuff"....I'm like..."well, these are kids...this is not Vegas" or a Hollywood Production!

[Poupounne]

The past week I asked the director what was the actual cost and the source for the Christmas skating dress at $75 a pop...I was told to "drop it and move on"....If am a member am I not allowed to ask where is the money going?

[Skittl1321]

I'd say you have a right to be concerned.  Is USFSA/other skating organization structured in anyway that there is oversight of the clubs?  It seems like there should be someone to go to...

What do other parents think?

[AgnesNitt]

So the rink manager has figured out a way to get you to pay for his services in his light and sound company. The skating director is getting you to pay for costumes she keeps (check eBay the week after the show).  And the 'ice-time' may go into someone's pocket since it's cash and off the books, so it's a business loss.

Have I summarized it adequately?

If the manager is not the owner, then who is the owner?  If the rink is run by one of the big rink management companies, then you could try contacting them or the owner.


PS Are you quebecoise?

[Poupounne]

Right?!?

A rich doctor  bought the rink about 4-5 years ago... pretty much for his daughter...a young ice skater.
I don't think he is a bit involve in this....
Yep....I'm a Quebecoise.

[MadMac]

so maybe he needs to become involved. . .

[AgnesNitt]

Well, I'm not a parent, I'm just an adult skater.  So is the ice time 'cash only' too? Or just the costumes?
'Cash only' is usually a sign of off-books activity. If the rink is demanding cash for ice time, yeah, even a doctor would find that troubling (doctors know more about accounting than you'd think) since it would mean he's getting ripped off. Tricky how to let him know unless you're a close personal friend. 

[retired]

The past week I asked the director what was the actual cost and the source for the Christmas skating dress at $75 a pop...I was told to "drop it and move on"....If am a member am I not allowed to ask where is the money going?

I have a great friend who sews and has a good business.  She got contacted by a dance school to make costumes.  They wanted costumes for $15, and she made exactly that, $15 costumes.  She was then horrified that the costumes were sold to the parents for $60 each and the dance instructor kept the difference.     She had no idea that this sort of mark up was common.  She had also put labels (as required by law) in the garments, so when the parents complained about the poor quality of the $60 costume, she took the brunt of it.    She was hoping that parents would come to her for business outside of dance, and it cost her business terribly. 

So I am thinking that the reason you don't get to know the supplier of the $75 costume is that for sure it didn't cost $75.

If it is a club, you can certainly call Skate Canada and ask for their advice of how to proceed.   A club is a non-profit organisation and has to show where every cent went at an annual meeting that any member or parent of member is entitled to attend.

[kssk8fan]

Is this skating show mandatory?  If not, save your $700.00 and put it towards lessons, new skates, additional practice ice, or whatever works best for you.  Do you think your child will get a $700.00 experience out of the gig??? 

I personally think you're being taken for something I can't figure out but perhaps you can set the precedent!  Pull out of the show and maybe other parents will  do the same.  It will send a message to them that in your community, fees cannot be that high! 

[Poupounne]

No it is not mandatory....but she wheeled in my daughter and they other kids for 3 months....before forthcoming with the information's. Now, how do I explain that to my 10 year old daughter?  It's so wrong in so many level...using kids emotions for her profit...

The skating director, wants cash for ice and costume... I pulled  her company name(what is supposedly  under) this morning in the state business registrations website  and she is not even listed....or registered.

This is really starting to smell really really bad.

[Skate@Delaware]

Is this skating show mandatory?  If not, save your $700.00 and put it towards lessons, new skates, additional practice ice, or whatever works best for you.  Do you think your child will get a $700.00 experience out of the gig??? 

I personally think you're being taken for something I can't figure out but perhaps you can set the precedent!  Pull out of the show and maybe other parents will  do the same.  It will send a message to them that in your community, fees cannot be that high! 

I agree! Your daughter will get over it, she's old enough to understand if you explain it to her (although she might not like it).

[kssk8fan]

10  years old is never too young to learn what a scam is!  LOL   I've given your original post more thought and I believe the rink management is trying to cover the lost ice time fees associated with a show.  When doing a show, especially one with props, lighting, etc.....there can be a huge loss in revenue until the show is over.  Most rinks and programs understand this is cost of growing the program and the sport in their area.  The long term gain outweighs the short term loss.  However, there are many that feel you can't put on a show without making a profit and the money has to come from somewhere.  They can't charge $50.00 a ticket - no one will come!!  So, they charge the families a gross amount of money to participate.  Just like you said, how can you explain this to your daughter, she's looking forward to it!  Well, they know that parents will do whatever it takes not to disappoint their children.

I saw this happen to our synchro team a few years back.  My daughter wasn't involved, thank goodness, but I was privy to everything going on and requested by the team management.  I felt so sorry for most of those skaters and their parents!  Every time we turned around the team manager was requesting something to be approved and required for the parents to purchase for their kids.  It was absolutely devastating for one family who ended up mortgaging their home because the commitment made to be on that team for one year!  

[FigureSpins]

I agree! Your daughter will get over it, she's old enough to understand if you explain it to her (although she might not like it).

I second that motion.  Ask for a refund, if any is due.  Don't worry about having to say "no" to your daughter - it's not that big a deal.  Say it's beyond your budget - that's an important life lesson for kids to learn.  Put the money towards lessons and ice time instead.  One of my friends has a standing memorial day commitment that often conflicts with a club skating show.  Her kids really understand that "family comes first."  Again, important life lessons.

At our old rink, we paid around $50 for show costumes, but the skaters took them home.  They weren't really well-made, but they weren't junk.  One of my DD's is wearing her older sister's group costume from a show years ago and it's still in good shape.  Since it's unique at our new rink, it was quite the sensation last weekend!

Our current rink hosts an annual show with the same theme every year, so the rink buys the group costume accessories (skirts, jewelry, headbands, accessories) for the LTS skaters but the skaters have to buy a new leotard through the skating director.  The soloists wear their own costumes.  Some talented seamstresses have created costumes for the show over the years and others have donated outgrown costumes, so we have a nice costume closet for the various roles.  My guess is that your skating director is trying to do the same thing, but she's approaching it wrong.  You don't charge people for costumes without saying that it's a rental up front.

As for the timing, in the US many rinks or clubs have an end-of-season show or competition to keep skaters on the ice for a few extra months.  The rinks start to empty out in March as the weather warms up and the Spring sports season starts up with soccer and baseball/softball.  By having an enticement to keep coming to the rink, more skaters stay on through the summer.  I really don't see an advantage to having a holiday-time show or competition.  It's a busy time of the year as well, but it's really at a time when many people are coming to rinks anyway.  I think a simple Fall competition is better, from a business perspective, to bring people back on the ice after the summer is over.

[Poupounne]

 When doing a show, especially one with props, lighting, etc.....there can be a huge loss in revenue until the show is over.  Most rinks and programs understand this is cost of growing the program and the sport in their area.  The long term gain outweighs the short term loss.  However, there are many that feel you can't put on a show without making a profit and the money has to come from somewhere.  They can't charge $50.00 a ticket - no one will come!!  So, they charge the families a gross amount of money to participate.  Just like you said, how can you explain this to your daughter, she's looking forward to it!  Well, they know that parents will do whatever it takes not to disappoint their children.

Totally, their using the parents as there cash cow and thinks the parents have a open wallet policy. WRONG!!!!
Thank you all for the info, I'm pulling out my daughter.

[FigureSpins]

Pull her out with class and style - don't get into a fight about it, don't gossip about it, don't rant about it.  It's really better for you to be above an argument.  Just say you've decided to have your daughter focus on her own skating skills and you have other plans for the summer, so you can't commit.

Many posters here have accused the organizer of running a scam, but none of us really know that that's true.  Personally, I think it's an ill-conceived startup venture and it's going to fail.  Better to just let her fall on her face without your being involved than to make any public accusations.  Her supporters will view you as an enemy or a troublemaker, she could accuse you of slander.  To me, she's screwing up royally and will probably leave the rink within a year, so just wait out the storm.

Take the high road and keep your emotions in check.  Don't deviate from your script.  There are a lot of threads in this forum that demonstrate parents overreacting and looking for every little thing to feed that anger.  One offhand remark can explode.  Forgive me for pointing it out, but you have a long list of complaints about this woman, so you're at risk of going over the edge.  Please don't do it - she's not worth making yourself look like a nutjob.


You are in a position of power here.  Your daughter will understand - a simple "It doesn't fit our budget, sorry." is an important life lesson.  As long as you behave yourself and don't go ranting to anyone who will listen, all you have to say is "Thank you for wanting to include (dd) in your show.  Unfortunately, we have other plans."

[MadMac]

I like your style FigureSpins. Excellent suggestions for handling the situation.