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On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: AgnesNitt on March 17, 2017, 12:54:26 PM

Title: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: AgnesNitt on March 17, 2017, 12:54:26 PM
A place to ask questions about stuff you see at the rink. Can be equipment, job titles, techniques.

I'll start:

What is this skating skill? It's a back cross roll with the crossing foot in FRONT of the skating foot.
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: FigureSpins on March 17, 2017, 02:07:46 PM
By cross-roll, do you mean the crossing foot comes down on an outside edge and rolls to an inside edge?  Did the skater do one, several with the same foot, or alternating-changing direction?
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: RoaringSkates on March 17, 2017, 02:27:29 PM
A place to ask questions about stuff you see at the rink. Can be equipment, job titles, techniques.

I'll start:

What is this skating skill? It's a back cross roll with the crossing foot in FRONT of the skating foot.

My coach has me do those. He says that those are the real crossrolls. The ones people call "cross rolls", where the foot crosses in the back of the skating foot, are cross cuts. No idea if that's actually true. :lol:
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: AgnesNitt on March 17, 2017, 03:12:44 PM
By cross-roll, do you mean the crossing foot comes down on an outside edge and rolls to an inside edge?  Did the skater do one, several with the same foot, or alternating-changing direction?

Comes down on the outside edge alternating side to side
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: FigureSpins on March 17, 2017, 03:44:17 PM
I can't even imagine this - got a video?
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: Bill_S on March 17, 2017, 04:02:19 PM
I've seen what Agnes is talking about. There's a Russian coach in Columbus that teaches that element. One of our young skaters who sometimes takes lessons from her will practice it.

Haven't heard anyone call it by name though.
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: Doubletoe on March 17, 2017, 07:03:20 PM
It's basically alternating back crossovers.  You do a right-over-left crossover, change edge, then do a left-over-right crossover, repeat.  I think these are called back cross rolls (not cross strokes or cross cuts, where the new foot steps down behind the skating foot instead of crossing over).
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: CrossStroke on March 17, 2017, 08:03:26 PM
It's basically alternating back crossovers.  You do a right-over-left crossover, change edge, then do a left-over-right crossover, repeat.

I don't think that's what AgnesNitt is talking about.
Ironically, in the last 2 or 3 weeks my coach had me do that move - back outside to back outside edges crossing in front.  He had me do them both in isolation and several combinations - for example, LBO choctaw, RFI choctaw, on LBO cross front to RBO, into RBO choctaw, LFI choctaw, on RBO cross front to LBO, rinse, repeat...  No idea if it has a name, though.
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: icedancer on March 17, 2017, 10:15:45 PM
I think there is a part of the Gold Dance called the Quickstep where you do this - cross in front while going backwards - it's not a roll though, just an edge (and very hard IMHO) -
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: nicklaszlo on March 18, 2017, 12:07:07 AM
This fits the definition of a cross step forward (XF) in the USFS rulebook.  However, it is only an example.

Agnes's step as best I can tell is

RBO XF-LBO XF-RBO ...

Quickstep steps 8 and 9 are

RBI XF-LBO

which is not the same.

I'll try Agnes's step next time I practice.
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: AgnesNitt on March 18, 2017, 07:06:24 AM
Confirming Nicklazlo's comment above, I got an email from a coach I know who said:

Quote
In ice dance terminology they are labeled as XF (cross front) and are found in the Viennese waltz ladies steps 5 & 6. The dance was actually created to the Blue Danube piece of music, and if you start the dance at beginning of the melody, the XF transition matches the music beautifully!!
The rock-over sensation before putting the new foot down is the fun of that step.

Cross-rolls (XR) with the new foot behind each time are found in the Argentine tango for the lady.

Video! https://youtu.be/14onAB6sAM8?t=39

So we finally have an answer and confirmation!!

Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: FigureSpins on March 18, 2017, 08:08:24 AM
So, it's not a cross-roll - the crossing foot comes down on a BO edge and stays on that edge. I thought that foot changed edge, which is why I couldn't envision it at all.  Back Cross Fronts.  Got it.  (Great ISU video, btw.)
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: nicklaszlo on March 18, 2017, 08:19:15 AM
Viennese waltz lady's step 6 is an inside edge. 
3 RBO
4 CR LBO
5 XF RBIO
6 XF LBI
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: AgnesNitt on March 18, 2017, 09:14:54 AM
Viennese waltz lady's step 6 is an inside edge. 
3 RBO
4 CR LBO
5 XF RBIO
6 XF LBI

Looking at the video closer, I see you are correct.
So,  XF BO is a cross front something...so far unidentified
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: dkd on March 18, 2017, 11:14:20 AM
I do those for my edge warm ups. My coach was in John Curry's company, and my coach taught them during Curry class. I don't recall an exact name for them, but I think he just called them low cross in fronts.
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: icedancer on March 18, 2017, 12:41:04 PM
This fits the definition of a cross step forward (XF) in the USFS rulebook.  However, it is only an example.

Agnes's step as best I can tell is

RBO XF-LBO XF-RBO ...

Quickstep steps 8 and 9 are

RBI XF-LBO

which is not the same.

I'll try Agnes's step next time I practice.

You are right - but it is really hard - I used to be able to do it!  :blush:
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: Shelley on March 18, 2017, 03:37:52 PM
Sounds like the cross step in the junior moves Choctaw pattern. Like at 3:40 of this video: http://youtu.be/vDGp29iePCc

 My coach has me do just the alternating crosses down the rink sometimes as a drill. Don't know if there's a name for them though.
Title: Re: [Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?
Post by: nicklaszlo on March 18, 2017, 08:21:41 PM
Sounds like the cross step in the junior moves Choctaw pattern.

Good point.  I now realize I have done that one many times.