skatingforums
On the Ice => The Pro Shop => Topic started by: falen on March 30, 2011, 08:16:55 PM
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I am in the market for new skates. Well dd...
Currently she has jackson and is a size 3. I hear there is a heel difference. Can anyone tell me if they have size 3 in Jackson or Riedell. I don't like to change brands, but her width is not available but in a boot that is really stiff and riedell seems to have a few models that may be good. And the LS seem really plushy.
EDit: Ok I am zooming on the ls and that ankle cut...does that provide enough support on jumps? I don't want a twisted ankle.
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The heel difference is in height.. Riedells are typically lower. Jacksons are not.. switching may cause problems initially since she's used to balancing on her blade a certain way and would need to adjust. I think there are usually more problems switching from Riedell to something else than the other way around.
What do you mean by the ankle cut - the flex notch, or the height?
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The heel difference is in height.. Riedells are typically lower. Jacksons are not.. switching may cause problems initially since she's used to balancing on her blade a certain way and would need to adjust. I think there are usually more problems switching from Riedell to something else than the other way around.
What do you mean by the ankle cut - the flex notch, or the height?
well the website has the ls models. And the leather is cut high on the sides and the back is low but where the leather is missing there is padding. Does that mean it is more for dance. It does not say dance? ???
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Coincidentally, I just saw a comparison of Jackson Mystique vs Reidell 15 on youTube. While these are low level skates, he makes some general comments on the brands, fit etc. Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Lw7rzjJ6Y
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Thanks
That was interesting. The heel height doesn't look very different.
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I am in the market for new skates. Well dd...
Currently she has jackson and is a size 3. I hear there is a heel difference. Can anyone tell me if they have size 3 in Jackson or Riedell. I don't like to change brands, but her width is not available but in a boot that is really stiff and riedell seems to have a few models that may be good. And the LS seem really plushy.
EDit: Ok I am zooming on the ls and that ankle cut...does that provide enough support on jumps? I don't want a twisted ankle.
What width does she need? My dd wears a narrow and we just bought her Jackson Freestyle boots. She actually wore those when she was in the freestyle levels and did ok. I know the freestyle boot comes in narrower and wider widths. What boot is she in now?
Yes, the heel is different on Jacksons and Riedell. My dd has worn both and honestly, today was her first day back in Jacksons and I do not think we will go back to Riedell. She is skating well... even for them being new skates! :)
Good luck shopping!
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Thanks
That was interesting. The heel height doesn't look very different.
it may not look different, but they definately are different. So much so, Riedell skates require a bigger blade then Jackson skates. My daughter just outgrew a size 5 Riedell boot. I was hoping to reuse her blade on her size 6 Jackson boot, but I was unable to do so due to the blade from the size 5 boot being too LONG for the Jackson boot! it was only by a 1/4 inch but no dice! *sniff* I am told it is largely due to the fact that Jackson skates have a different heel.
Oh and about the ankle thing on the LS models... my daughter's friend is a pre-juv skater and wears skates like those and likes them. I think LS stands for light series.
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Mod edit: thread moved to the equipment forum
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Why are you looking for a boot that is "really stiff"? Your DD is young and not a high-level skater, IIRC - ? Generally, you would not be looking for a stiff boot at that age and level ... you would be looking for something your DD could easily flex. What does your coach recommend/want in terms of stiffness?
The padding allows for more toe point and less weight; it is definitely a freestyle boot, although some dancers will use them; they are used by skaters at a range of levels (including high-level landing doubles) - and is well liked by many. There are a range of levels in the LS which does stand for Light Series.
For us, Riedells are far better; for other skaters, Jackson are. Yes, there is a heel height difference: IIRC, it was about 1/4 inch higher when we switched. It actually let us use the same blade on a larger size of Riedells than the Jacksons we switched out of ... which was nice and saved us a blade purchase.
IIRC as well, Riedell and Jackson move to "beyond basic widths" at about the same level of boots ... so, you should be able to get your kid's different width at about the same level in both manufacturers.
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Why are you looking for a boot that is "really stiff"?
I don't think she is - I think what she was trying to say was that in order to get the size/width her DD needs, the boots would be too stiff.
Personally I would get recommendations from the coach and talk to a good fitter... most brands will expand their stock sizing widths as a semi-custom for a fee (usually in the range of $35-50).
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Why are you looking for a boot that is "really stiff"? Your DD is young and not a high-level skater, IIRC - ? Generally, you would not be looking for a stiff boot at that age and level ... you would be looking for something your DD could easily flex. What does your coach recommend/want in terms of stiffness?
The padding allows for more toe point and less weight; it is definitely a freestyle boot, although some dancers will use them; they are used by skaters at a range of levels (including high-level landing doubles) - and is well liked by many. There are a range of levels in the LS which does stand for Light Series.
For us, Riedells are far better; for other skaters, Jackson are. Yes, there is a heel height difference: IIRC, it was about 1/4 inch higher when we switched. It actually let us use the same blade on a larger size of Riedells than the Jacksons we switched out of ... which was nice and saved us a blade purchase.
IIRC as well, Riedell and Jackson move to "beyond basic widths" at about the same level of boots ... so, you should be able to get your kid's different width at about the same level in both manufacturers.
I don't want a stiff boot. The first boot in jackson that comes in her size without a blade is the Premiere which I think is too stiff. The Freestyle would be better, but doesn't accomodate her width at D. I am doing more research on riedell and it seems that it won't work for her as it is more for a narrow foot. Oh well
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Since she is a young lady, you can probably find skates to try on in a store, unless you live light years from a well stocked store. That is the best way to see what fits, rather than guessing based on what other people say for their feet. A few extra hours driving is well worth it to eliminate the pain and medical problems.
For some reason, skates are largely hand-made and vary pair-to-pair, regardless of make, size and model. So it is often a bad idea to find a pair that fits in the store, then order it cheap over the Internet.
Talk to the coach too. Sure, most of them just recommend what they have used, which might or might not fit your DD, but the coach may have an informed opinion on what stiffness you need, and what blade shapes the coach is comfortable teaching your DD to use.
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What about the Jackson Competitor (rated at 50, for single jumps, axel) it has a D width? Based on their website, it is a little less stiff than the Premier (rated at 60 for axel, double jumps), and slightly more so than the Freestyle (40, single jumps).
It comes with a blade, but you could just take that off and put your blades on it.
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What about the Jackson Competitor (rated at 50, for single jumps, axel) it has a D width? Based on their website, it is a little less stiff than the Premier (rated at 60 for axel, double jumps), and slightly more so than the Freestyle (40, single jumps).
It comes with a blade, but you could just take that off and put your blades on it.
I guess I may do that. I can get the boot at the store and order online for the blade...maybe will be cheaper?
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The blade that comes on the competitor is actually pretty decent through axel- what blade is she using right now?
I found Rainbo Sports did a good job of fitting through email scans. I have no pro-shop, so we I sent scans in, they sent skates out. It only took one back and forth shipping- so a little more expensive than just a normal order, because I did have to pay return shipping, but way cheaper than driving to the nearest pro shop and staying in a hotel overnight...
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Falen, has your DD tried on the freestyle C width in a size 3? I always thought Jackson's ran wider than what I would have thought. I also think anything over a freestyle is too stiff for a young skater, unless of course you buy used!!! Sometimes, that works great!
As for the low cut in the back or the "extras", I wouldn't necessarily worry about all of that. The most important "feature" you should be looking for is that the boot is not too stiff! I've seen too many skaters in boots that are way too stiff. This can cause stress fractures in the legs. Not to mention, they really prevent the skater from learning proper skating skills, posture, and necessary knee bend. I'd rather under-boot my DD than over boot her any day!!!
As for blades, if you have to get a pair that come with a lower level blade than your DD's coach wants, just order the correct pair and have the pro shop take the stock blades off and replace them. It's done all the time!
Good luck on your search for new equipment!
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I guess I may do that. I can get the boot at the store and order online for the blade...maybe will be cheaper?
It might be cheaper and you can possibly buy used off ebay, myskatingmall, or the swaps here. You might have to pay for the pro shop to mount the new blade which can cost up to $75 at least where I live it can.
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The most important "feature" you should be looking for is that the boot is not too stiff! I've seen too many skaters in boots that are way too stiff. This can cause stress fractures in the legs. Not to mention, they really prevent the skater from learning proper skating skills, posture, and necessary knee bend. I'd rather under-boot my DD than over boot her any day!!!
Yes, when my dd had just turned 9 and was learning her first bunch of doubles, she had been fitted with very stiff Jacksons and ended up with the start of a heel fracture on her landing foot-- she just couldn't BEND to absorb the shock.
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I also think anything over a freestyle is too stiff for a young skater, unless of course you buy used!!! Sometimes, that works great!
True. Seemingly if buying used skates that are already broken in, it's fine to go up a level or two. My fitter recommended me get Jackson Competitor if buying new, Jackson Elite / Elite plus if buying used.
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Risports fit wide - or so I've been told by other parents. Have you looked at them - ?
In terms of the Riedells ... you can get narrow, med and wide starting at the 910 LS and the 255 TS levels, both of which come with a decent blade. The 910LS is a bit less stiff than the Freestyle; our coaches are rapidly abandoning the Jackson Freestyle in favour of the 910, where possible based on the skater's feet, as it is far lighter, and flexes better on small lightweight kids. Very comfy too, and it encourages toe point, which is a great thing to have happening at an early age.
I know of quite a few skaters with wide feet who fit Riedells nicely - and not in the Wide widths either. They simply have feet that fit the Riedell last - the heels, etc being a point. My DD did NOT fit the Jackson last; she does fit the Riedell last, not so much because of the narrowness as because of the shape of the heel, the shape of the toe box, and the internal "height" of the boot ... If there is any way you can travel to find a good boot fitter, do it - that way, you'll know which maker has skates that fit your own kid's unique feet - and you can stay with that manufacturer. Plus, a good fitter can make a not-so-perfect fit - fit.
Sorry for misreading your original post; it was late and my eyes crossed ... in the middle of ice show craziness ...
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Risports fit wide - or so I've been told by other parents. Have you looked at them - ?
I'm in Risports and they fit my wide feet. I'm not sure the exact width. It's definitely wide though, when I was younger, I remember having to go to specific shoe stores that specialized in wide widths...
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I guess I may do that. I can get the boot at the store and order online for the blade...maybe will be cheaper?
Since your daughter is so young and also still in the lower levels, I would imagine a boot/blade combo would serve her fine. If you do order the Jackson Competitor, I bet you will be happy with the blade on the boot(unless your coach wants something else). I will say that 2 years ago, I bought used competitor skates and they were too stiff for my then, 60 something pound daughter. She would have been about Freeskate 2 or 3 at that point. She ended up going into a Jackson Freestyle boot with the stock blade. It served her well and she landed her first axel in them. Maybe call Jackson and see if they can make her a size D width boot in a freestyle?? Just a thought.
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What about the Jackson Competitor (rated at 50, for single jumps, axel) it has a D width? Based on their website, it is a little less stiff than the Premier (rated at 60 for axel, double jumps), and slightly more so than the Freestyle (40, single jumps).
It comes with a blade, but you could just take that off and put your blades on it.
You're right about the Competitor coming as a D width, but OP's DD only wears a Jackson size 3, so she's presumably pretty small (my tall skinny DD is 9yo and wears Jackson size 5). Earlier this year, she was a Freestyle 1 skater - I'm not sure what jumps are usually done in that level? Would 10 degrees of stiffness more than the Freestyle be too much boot?
OP, what does your DD's coach say she needs in terms of boot strength?
I don't want a stiff boot. The first boot in jackson that comes in her size without a blade is the Premiere which I think is too stiff. The Freestyle would be better, but doesn't accommodate her width at D.
Most brands will expand their stock sizing widths as a semi-custom for a fee (usually in the range of $35-50).
I believe Freestyle is the lowest level boot for which Jackson will do special width (cost $50 per width change)? I was told by my fitter that Jackson does split sizes as a matter of course, so if you buy standard C width, this means you get C Ball + B heel. If you order D ball, I don't know whether you'd get B ball or C ball as standard, so you'd need to check.
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I actually wear Jackson size 3 D width myself. I have worn both the freestyle and the competitor and can't tell any difference in them at all. I'm a fat for my height adults, but I only do teeny tiny little jumps if I jump at all, so I don't put much stress on my boots.
I just thought it would be useful to see that the competitors isn't as stiff as the premier based on their ratings- I don't know what the numbers really mean in terms of stiffness, so I don't know how much of a jump 10 is... YKWIM.
But if the skater is doing single jumps to axel, they are rating it for a kid (not an adult with small feet like me)- the adult competitor is stiffer (45)
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I saw one of the kids with riedells ls...they are so PADDED...ooooo that has to be comfy!
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Are you able to take her to a full service pro shop? If so, do that. Hopefully they will have a variety of skates for you to look at.
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Jackson Competitor boot and blade set is the lowest model that they will do D widths, but what you could do is get Jackson Freestyles in C width (or Classique if Freestyle is also too stiff, depends on her level/requirements) and have them stretched out to a D - this is what I had done to my Jackson Freestyles and it's great! (I really need something much wider like an E or EE width but at least D is better than squeezing into a C!).
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I saw one of the kids with riedells ls...they are so PADDED...ooooo that has to be comfy!
Yea, I gave those boots a serious look when I was shopping, because they are so padded, but I love me some Klings. Only thing I don't like about the Klings is the tag they put on the outside of the Ankle that gives me a blister when breaking them in (but stops after they're broken in, thankfully).
Nothing like getting a blister one day, and then having it rub off the next day because you forgot to cover it.
Anyways, those Reidell boots look so densly padded, that they drew my attention.
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I think it may be most cost effective to go with competitior and change the blade to what coach wants...Riedells are pricy.
Thanks
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Are you able to take her to a full service pro shop? If so, do that. Hopefully they will have a variety of skates for you to look at.
I agree. If you have a good pro shop, with someone you can trust, they will put your DD in the best skates for her. We are fortunate to have Jim Reid do ours, he outfits Emanual Sandu but with us, he's never steered us wrong or tried to upsell anything we don't need. He knows the coaches personally, he knows the kids personally and when finding them skates, he goes by height, weight as well as what they are working on to fit them with the right skate and blade. My DD can get brand new skates and barely notice a difference. Good luck!