You are viewing as a Guest.

Welcome to skatingforums - over 10 years of figure skating discussions for skaters, coaches, judges and parents!

Please register to be able to access all features of this message board.

Author Topic: bielman spins  (Read 2232 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline skatingmum2

  • Homologating Quadrubles
  • **
  • Joined: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 132
  • Total GOE: 3
bielman spins
« on: March 02, 2013, 12:53:49 PM »
Daughter used to have a good Bielman. she probably had a back which was too flexible. Back flexibility deteriorated after injury (a year ago now - possible L4 stress fracture - somehow never fully decided). When injured flexibility not helped by something like a 5 inch growth spurt - she has done well to get back all the doubles and to be working hard on double axel etc.

Since then she has been nervous of stretching too much in her back - prior to injury there were handstands into backbend (I'm sure there is a better term for this) etc. She can do Bielman's but obviously to do a Bielman spin it needs to be easy flexibility.

 Are there any web-sites with good stretching programs?

Offline nicklaszlo

  • Lipping a Lutz
  • ****
  • Joined: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 1,099
  • Total GOE: 215
Re: bielman spins
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 07:57:21 PM »
Assuming your daughter is growth-spurt age, it's not normal for her to get stress fractures.  It is normal for her to get reduced flexibility.  I'd suggest checking with a doctor or physical therapist before trying very much.  Don't forget to consider diet as well as training issues.

Speaking from an adult male perspective, sometimes one needs to accept the limits of ones' flexibility.  Biellmann spins are nice but not necessary for successful skating.

Offline rsk8d

  • Homologating Quadrubles
  • **
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 133
  • Total GOE: 12
    • Sk8Strong
Re: bielman spins
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2013, 09:05:27 AM »
Nicklaszlo perfectly said! Skatingmum2, as a physical therapist, I despise the biellman spin, and have had several disagreements with coaches about the spin. Some skaters are just not meant to do a biellman, as it is not a normal, nor healthy position for the spine.  To avoid an injury such as a stress fracture, a skater has to have a very mobile hip joint capsule, good flexibility in the hip flexor, hamstring, and adductors, as well as good shoulder rotation.  Without that,  a skater is susceptible to injuring the back.

My recommendation for your daughter is to stop trying them, if she wants longevity in the sport.  There are plenty of other ways to earn points in skating.  You can check some of my articles at www.sk8strong.com/articles.html about injury prevention. http://www.sk8strong.com/articles/article/6311334/135979.htm
Visit www.sk8strong.com for off-ice training information, DVDs and more

Offline skatingmum2

  • Homologating Quadrubles
  • **
  • Joined: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 132
  • Total GOE: 3
Re: bielman spins
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2013, 04:08:48 PM »
That makes sense - she has not the most brilliantly flexible hips although her back was super flexible..... She has done loads of strengthening stuff since her back injury to try and reduce mobility of back.... She has a good layback where she pulls her foot to her head - its the bielman bit she couldn't do - but - maybe one to avoid.

Offline hopskipjump

  • BladeLock
  • Ice Dancer
  • ****
  • Joined: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 1,018
  • Total GOE: 59
Re: bielman spins
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2013, 08:12:14 PM »
I would rather dd did any spins other than bielman.  She isn't going to be an olympian - I don't want her to suffer with medical issues because she thought she needed a beilman when she was 12.

Offline Doubletoe

  • Quintuple Salflutzchow
  • ****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1,219
  • Total GOE: 135
Re: bielman spins
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2013, 05:23:27 PM »
If she does a sideways leaning spin for 3 revolutions and then goes into the layback position and does a haircutter variation (holding her blade to her head) for 8 revolutions, that's still a level 3 layback spin.  Adding the Biellmann position for a level 4 would only add 0.3 points to that.  *0.3* points.  That's less than the value of a single toeloop.  Is that really worth risking her back for?  Maybe it's time for her physical therapist to teach her some stretches to increase her hip flexor and hamstring flexibility.  Then she can do a Y or I spin position and get points in her combination spins that way.

Offline skatingmum2

  • Homologating Quadrubles
  • **
  • Joined: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 132
  • Total GOE: 3
Re: bielman spins
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2013, 06:01:52 PM »
Thank you! Just the sort of information daughter might listen to. When we had a conversation about "leaving" Bielman spins I had a very grumpy "funny you want me to give up before I've started" and loads of other general adolescent grumpiness. 0.3 of a mark though - might make her listen. Not sure if she gets 8 rotations on the "hair-cutter" (had no idea it was called that) but that sounds like a much better aim for her. She used to do nice y-balance spins and she has some good sit spin variations including some where she does some rotations in different positions in the same spin.

There used to be (ages ago) some spin where she did a sit spin with her leg in front and somehow brought it round the back into a layback spin. Maybe she needs to try and do this one again.

Offline fortune8

  • Ice Warrior
  • *
  • Joined: Aug 2012
  • Location: down south
  • Posts: 37
  • Total GOE: 1
  • Gender: Female
Re: bielman spins
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2013, 04:48:15 AM »
I used to coach gymnastics and my elder daughter and I have a tutorial on YouTube that you may find helpful. It's incredibly important skaters understand the stretch in a Bielman comes from the shoulders not the back. They should stop stretching immediately if they feel discomfort in their lower back. If her doctor says she can carry on using this spin and she's done it before I'd guess it wouldn't take much work to get it back. (PS: The handstand to bridge is called a limber  :)).