Skate Fit Advice

[MCsAngel2]

Is that the same Mark Ladwig who skated at the 2010 Olympics?

Yep, he works for Jackson now. He's also done a series of videos on Youtube about basic skate tech knowledge.

[AspenonIce]

I hope you aren't saying that you haven't seen Marlon yourself since getting these boots? Going through intermediaries isn't the same thing. E.g., if you talk in person, people are much more likely to offer you a refund, or a free or discounted fix.

Likewise, corresponding with Jackson itself, rather than intermediaries, even if you purchased the boots through an intermediary, makes them much more likely to offer you a refund, or a free or discounted fix.

If I were you, I would look up Jackson, and dig for a phone number to call. A very quick web search - dig yourself if this isn't still good, gives:

  https://www.zoominfo.com/c/jackson-ultima-skates-inc/54482362
  https://www.allbiz.ca/jackson-ultima-skates-inc-519-888-6500

I made the mistake of not talking directly to a boot manufacturer of a pair of misfit skate boots. (Another brand; and admittedly they were customs.) It turns out that if I had talked to the manufacturer directly in a timely fashion, and went where they asked, they would have made replacement boots for free.

If you haven't directly seen Marlon, and talked to Jackson, since the boots arrived, the longer you wait, the less likely they are to help.

That is correct. I went to Henry first and he jumped in and took full responsibility for the situation even though Marlon was the original fitter.

I was able to get the second pair of boots for a discount after I was refitted.

I contacted Jackson first after the 6s didn't fix the problem and they contacted Henry themselves to find out what he was doing for me. From then on, all communication with Jackson was through him. He arranged to have my boots sent back to Jackson earlier this year and paid shipping. I'm still not sure what exactly was done to them, but they did it based on foot tracings that Henry took and sent to them. They either did industrial level stretching or rebuilt the boot, I'm not sure which and have been trying to find out so we know where to go. Although, my group coach still thinks I need a lower heeled boot so I need an entirely new pair of boots anyway.

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[AspenonIce]

Send them a message on their Facebook page, when I did this a year ago, Mark Ladwig was prompt in getting back to me and spent a long time on chat talking about my issues.

https://www.facebook.com/jacksonultima

Be aware that you won't get the same instant notification that you do for your friends, you'll have to open messenger and see if there are other pending messages.

I will attempt this to figure out what exactly was done to my boots so I can move on from there. I did not realize it didn't send notifications.
My last message was looking for another fitter on 7/9 and they didn't reply until 7/27.

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[AspenonIce]

I have emailed Mark with details of the situation and will see what he has to say!

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[Query]

You have so tried to do everything right! This must be so frustrating.

Why did you switch to Henry? Isn't Marlon the better known fitter?

I'm amazed that Jackson can afford Mark's help. With his skating record, maybe he could earn $80-$120/hour as a coach. https://www.zoominfo.com/c/jackson-ultima-skates-inc/54482362 claims Jackson only has $394,000 revenue.

[MCsAngel2]

I'm amazed that Jackson can afford Mark's help. With his skating record, maybe he could earn $80-$120/hour as a coach. https://www.zoominfo.com/c/jackson-ultima-skates-inc/54482362 claims Jackson only has $394,000 revenue.

Look more closely at that chart - their revenue has fallen off a cliff in 2020 for obvious reasons, but they posted $11M in revenue 4th quarter 2019. Jackson is a big dog, I'm sure they'll survive.

[AspenonIce]

You have so tried to do everything right! This must be so frustrating.

Why did you switch to Henry? Isn't Marlon the better known fitter?

I was not aware of Marlon's status at the time.
I think the original plan was to just have the 5.5s stretched and to ask if the bruising on my big toes was normal and it turned into Henry helping me after talking to Marlon to get his input. If Henry hadn't jumped in, I probably would have gone back to Marlon to figure out what to do.

I'm sure there's something else I could have done that would have made this all easier. For sure, going back to the fitters in Buffalo, NY that saw my wide feet immediately would have been beneficial, but I didn't have the money before I graduated and left the state.

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[Christy]

My feet hang over the insole maybe a 1/4”.
And I have collapsing arches. They look normal until I stand on them and then they're close flat.

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I assume you mean at the sides? How is the length?

Also have you tried having the skates heat molded? and if so were you wearing your skating socks or a thicker pair?

[AspenonIce]

I assume you mean at the sides? How is the length?

Also have you tried having the skates heat molded? and if so were you wearing your skating socks or a thicker pair?

Yes, over the sides. The length is fine.

They were heat molded when I first got them and I only wear skating tights to skate or for fittings.

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[MCsAngel2]

Yes, over the sides. The length is fine.


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They are too narrow. You need a semi custom with a wider width.

[Christy]

Wow, that's a big difference in width. You definitely need a wider boot, as even if you stretched the upper of the boot you'd have no support for your soles.

[AspenonIce]

If I can get these boots to work at least until this virus is gone, I'll be happy and willing to pay whatever for a wider pair next time around.

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[MCsAngel2]

Additionally, your insoles show that your skates are too long. Very common mistake to keep sizing up boots to get a fit when you need a wider width, but it will cause incorrect posture and it's not safe to do jumps on skates that are too big. You need at least another half size down, in addition to a proper measurement for width (why has the shop you're dealing with not measured you correctly for width yet?)

These pics show insole wear on boots that are too large and one that is correct. Although yours is better than the first example here, you can still see comparing to the correct example that yours are still too long.

https://ice.edeaskates.com/en/tech-info/what-is-my-size/how-can-i-check-if-i-have-the-right-size/

[MCsAngel2]

Also, read this page to see what issues are caused by not wearing the correct length boot - your arch won't line up with the boot, the ball of your foot won't be in the right place over the sweet spot on the blade for spins. Even just a half size.

https://ice.edeaskates.com/en/tech-info/what-is-my-size/foot-issues-caused-by-wrong-size/

I reread this thread and if I were you I would be pissed that they sized you up from a 5.5 to a 6 when that's clearly not the correct length, and that they did this to accomodate your width, continuing to put you in stock width boots. All your pictures show that it's very obvious that you need a custom width and the regular wide isn't going to cut it. What they've done is so unprofessional, I can't even, because they've put you in boots that are 1) still too narrow and 2) the wrong length which puts you at risk for injury if you try to do skills in them. 

Jackson has their own sizing chart, including widths, and it doesn't sound like they've used it. I just can't believe they're a recommended fitter when they've done so many things incorrectly.

[AspenonIce]

Additionally, your insoles show that your skates are too long. Very common mistake to keep sizing up boots to get a fit when you need a wider width, but it will cause incorrect posture and it's not safe to do jumps on skates that are too big. You need at least another half size down, in addition to a proper measurement for width (why has the shop you're dealing with not measured you correctly for width yet?)

These pics show insole wear on boots that are too large and one that is correct. Although yours is better than the first example here, you can still see comparing to the correct example that yours are still too long.

https://ice.edeaskates.com/en/tech-info/what-is-my-size/how-can-i-check-if-i-have-the-right-size/

My front toes were being bruised by the 5.5s. I wasn't attempting singles in those either, I can't fully remember, but I was probably only doing waltz jumps in those, if that. So just skating around was enough to bruise them.
That's part of why I was moved the the 6s, he thought it would be a win-win and I didn't know enough to try for a semi-custom at that point.

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[MCsAngel2]

My front toes were being bruised by the 5.5s. I wasn't attempting singles in those either, I can't fully remember, but I was probably only doing waltz jumps in those, if that. So just skating around was enough to bruise them.
That's part of why I was moved the the 6s, he thought it would be a win-win and I didn't know enough to try for a semi-custom at that point.

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They should have tried punching out the front of the 5.5s first. But the bigger issue is the width - based on these pictures I don't think it's possible to stretch them out enough.

[AspenonIce]

They should have tried punching out the front of the 5.5s first. But the bigger issue is the width - based on these pictures I don't think it's possible to stretch them out enough.

That was never suggested.
But yes, it didn't matter much, neither fit correctly.

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[AspenonIce]

My skates have been sent to Mark. I will have to miss out on skating this week, but he will be modifying the heel to make it lower for me.
Hopefully this at least helps keep me more balanced on my blade and maybe will shift the weight distribution across my foot and help alleviate some pain.

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[lillian641]

I found that a plain felt insole helped with my foot pain in the balls of my feet. The arch support on the stock insoles of my new skates wasn't in the right place and my previous skates had had felt insoles, so I just moved them to my new skates. Craft felt is the same weight, not the thick felt insoles I have seen for sale. They also sell quite a few different types of arch support that can be custom placed, I used to use stick on arch support to put support in just the right place. It looks like now you can get sleeves with the arch support built in or different sizes and shapes of support.

Also, have you ever been to a chiropractor, my mom had her feet adjusted and foot pain that had bothered her for years went away and her balance improved.

[icepixie]

Yes, over the sides. The length is fine.

They were heat molded when I first got them and I only wear skating tights to skate or for fittings.

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These look like the overhang to the side my feet had in various iterations of stock boots. You also have that extra padding on the outside of the foot behind the ball that I have. I'm pretty sure that part was getting crushed when I was in the wrong skates, leading to similar pain you feel, pain that came on after a few minutes and would go away quickly if I took the skates off. (I had other troubles related to high arches and insteps, but the width in places stock boots don't account for didn't help.) Raising the arch does help some with getting the pressure off that part of the foot.

Jackson semi-customs (5A/C) didn't work for me. I got them because a stock Jackson 5B Premiere had worked okay, with lots of punching in the toes, skipping a hole over my arch, and bulking up the arch support with cut-out foam insoles, but they apparently changed their last between the two pairs and the new ones didn't work at all. I ended up going full custom with Avanta, which was able to accommodate that fat along the outside of the mid-foot, as well as all my other difficulties. If you think you may have a high volume foot (i.e., high instep), regular length/width measurement is almost never going to work well. Getting my feet plaster casted and the casts sent off to the bootmaker helped tremendously. Hopefully your problem is fixable with semi-custom Jacksons in the right width!

[AspenonIce]

These are what my boots look like now. No pain reduction even though they have been punched out.

The shaved off heels has helped a lot with keeping me where I'm supposed to be on my blades! I'm finally starting to figure out how to spin correctly now and it's great! I managed to just pass into ISI Freestyle 3 recently.

I think my plan is to go back to the Fairfax arena and have Marlon fit me for semi custom boots. I definitely need a non fusion sole as the heel height is too much for me and probably an E or EE width toe.

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[MCsAngel2]

Boy, it seems like over the last year I'm hearing more and more complaints about issues with Jackson's 2000 line. The Duraguard is a bust, no one I know likes it, and a bunch of people are opting to get other brands instead of anything in the 2000 line. The men's boots are awful looking, and the latest I heard about the plastic covering over the women's boots is that it YELLOWS after a few months! Glad I bought my Debuts before they started using it, I wouldn't buy them now.

I have heard about the change of the last they use for them, I know the current last is much more snug than what they used to have. It's been an issue for me but didn't realize it's been a problem for other people too.

Then there's the fusion sole. I know they used to be LCL before. I know LOTS of people who hate the fusion sole, specifically the heel. Something about the height or pitch is too much, it's much more exaggerated than the old heel used to be.

Mark, if you or anyone else from Jackson is reading this, please try to convince TPTB that they are going in the wrong direction with changes to the 2000 line. They're going to start seeing reduced sales because of it.

The only change that seems negligible is making the boot from microfiber instead of leather. But boy, every other update to that line seems to be really unpopular. I notice that none of those updates have made it to the 5000 series, hmm. 

[tstop4me]

Mark, if you or anyone else from Jackson is reading this, please try to convince TPTB that they are going in the wrong direction with changes to the 2000 line. They're going to start seeing reduced sales because of it.

If you want to provide feedback to Jackson, I suggest you contact them directly ... rather than hoping they monitor skating forums.  Whether they pay heed to you or not is a different story. 

[AspenonIce]

Boy, it seems like over the last year I'm hearing more and more complaints about issues with Jackson's 2000 line. The Duraguard is a bust, no one I know likes it, and a bunch of people are opting to get other brands instead of anything in the 2000 line. The men's boots are awful looking, and the latest I heard about the plastic covering over the women's boots is that it YELLOWS after a few months! Glad I bought my Debuts before they started using it, I wouldn't buy them now.

I have heard about the change of the last they use for them, I know the current last is much more snug than what they used to have. It's been an issue for me but didn't realize it's been a problem for other people too.

It's validating to hear that other people have had issues with these boots. After what I've gone through with them, I guess I'm not too surprised these have been a bust in general.

I think when I go up to see Marlon, we will have to have a discussion on what type of boot to get and if I need to switch manufacturers to get a better fit for me. My Riedell Opals were too long and too narrow, but I think everything else about them worked for me (Maybe this is revisionist history or wishful thinking, but I'm 0-2 with Jackson and only 0-1 with Riedell). Or maybe I should just skip it and go for Harlicks. Do you have to go to California to be fitted for those or will they work with you through a local fitter?

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[FigureSpins]

Three skaters I know just switched from Jacksons to Risports, mostly due to the Fusion heel pitch.  I told Mark @ Jackson about the issue at Nationals and he stated that it wasn't an issue, yet two of my skaters were pitched forward like they were skiing while wearing those skates.

The Risport frontal support isn't as strong as Jacksons, but using the Edea lacing/tying method helps a lot.

One note on the Risports: the lower-end boots have inside seams on both sides of the heel backstrap and the padding wears out really fast if the skate's tight-fitting.