Help with getting new boots

[kurunut]

This is my first time posting here, I hope this is the right place!

I'm currently in Jackson freestyle (size 5.5C) with Mark IV blades, which are starting to break down. I've been doing reading through this forum and have contacted some online skate shops, and came to a conclusion of purchasing the Jackson Premier with Matrix Legacy blades.

So here's my first question: I'm getting the same size as my current skates, 5.5C. Since I'm getting Jacksons again, should I be concerned about actually going to a pro shop and trying them on rather than just ordering them online? I know that it's always better to try them on in person, but I don't want to drive there if possible... just in case they don't have what I need in stock, etc.
If anyone has experience going from freestyles to premiers, I would like to know about how different (or similar) the fit feels!

My second question: My Freestyles have 9" blades on them, but Jackson's blade chart says that 9 1/4" blades are suggested(?) for size 5.5 boots...so now I can't figure out whether I'm supposed to be getting 9" or 9 1/4". Are there any noticeable differences when you go to different blade sizes on same size boots? (If that ever happens) and if possible, I would like to know which one would be the "appropriate" size blades.

Thank you!!

[Loops]

Out of curiosity why are you so reluctant to go to the shop?

It's ALWAYS better to go directly to a reputable skate shop.  You'll get fitted and get into properly sized/shaped boots that way.  I'm guessing you're happy with the fit of the stock Jacksons, which is awesome.  But by developing a relationship with an actual person you'll also have a trusted source for boot modifications (heat molding/punching out/repairing hooks, adding hooks...) and blade sharpening and mounting + adjustments.   You'll never get that from an internet store.  If you have a good skate tech, they are worth the drive.

They almost never have what you need in stock, expect to order.  But do call ahead and tell them what you're looking for especially if you have to drive a long distance.  You may be surprised at what they say.  Fwiw, the online shops are probably taking your order and more or less forwarding it to Jackson anyway.  I'm sure there are exceptions, but I doubt most shops have all sizes of all models in stock.  That would be expensive, and take up space.  The wait online may not be different.

I don't think many people will disagree with me when I say it's worth the distance.  I personally will have to drive/fly 2/3 across France to get to a shop (if I can vet it this summer and they pass) or come back to the US for skates.  There are others on this forum (who are in Europe too) who also have to go great distances.  My US skate tech sharpens skates by mail even!

I don't know anything about the Jackson line, but believe I have read on here that Premieres fit differently from the less stiff boot models.  If no one chimes in here with more information, then you might want to investigate that further.

As for the blade length, I don't think you'd notice that much difference if you went with the 9 1/4 blade, and if you did the adjustment would be less than adjusting to the legacy profile from that of the mark iV.  Just make sure the blade is mounted flush with the toe of the boot. 

[fsk8r]

I'd call the pro shop and discuss your needs and see if they actually have what you want in stock. At a size 5.5 they may actually have that size in stock because it's probably quite popular. I need a Jackson size 9 so I expect to have to order it in, but even then some shops may actually carry stock in the boot I'm interested in.

But I would most definitely go and see the pro shop. I know that in the lower level Jackson boots they don't fit the same so I was being predicted to need a different size to the ones I already had. As I was moving from one high end boot to another, I decided that I'd risk ordering exactly the same again and it worked for me. But I wouldn't have done that moving from a lower end boot to a higher one because the fit was different.

[Horseandpony]

I'm still a skating newbie, so I don't have much advice for you, but I definitely recommend going to the skate shop. Unless you live a really long way from the shop, I see no harm in going. If they don't have what you were after, they can always order it in (if you buy it online it'll be the same process but in the shop you can try a few pairs on and get some good advice tailored to you).

It's good because you can try on a few different sizes and brands. You may find that something else actually works better for you. For example, my first skates actually didn't fit well, but I wouldn't have known if I didn't get fitted again and try on a few pairs. I also found that my feet are well suited to Jackson's and that I hated Wifas. You can show the guy at the skate shop your old skates and get some good advice as well.

Skates are a bit of an investment. Badly fitting skates can really affect your skating, and you'll use your new skates for at least a year. Might as well go the more time consuming route to get more advice and try stuff on. It can't hurt to go.

Edit: I don't know much about blades, but 1/4 inch is not too much. Jackson freestyles come with stock blades, and I find it unlikely that Jackson would mass produce boot and blade sets with incorrectly fitting blades. Both sizes would likely be fine. Double check with someone else on this though.

[kurunut]

Thank you to everyone for responding!
As all of you have suggested, I'll be making a trip to my local fitter whenever I get the chance. The main reason I was wondering if I could order them online was because my work schedule was difficult to work around with the hours of the fitter– but if it's worth getting help in person, then I'll figure things out somehow.
Hopefully it won't take too long for me to get the skates because I'm moving out for college in a couple months time, and it would suck if I can't be there to get it. I'm probably worrying too much though, haha. I'll definitely contact the pro shop and ask if they have any in stock, though!

I found it interesting that the lower-level Jacksons fit differently than higher-level ones, although being the same brand. Besides, my current skates are quite old– probably around six years old to be exact (I stopped skating for a while and am just getting back into it again, thus I kept them for so long) so I'd assume Jackson might have changed some things around a bit.

[Query]

My recent experience is that I am very happy (happier than when I ordered custom boots) wearing somewhat oversized boots that weren't designed for me, which could have been ordered fine by mail - but I know how to make them fit myself. If you haven't much experience modifying boots to fit, using a good fitter is well worth the investment in time and money, even if you have to take off from work.

If you were desperate to save money, one could understand your desire.

But just to save time? Unfortunately, a lot of people who order boots, stock or custom, find they don't originally fit, no matter who made them. If you can go through a good fitter, there will be a lot less hassle [edit: AND TIME] making them fit.

But use the best fitter you can, based on other people's reviews! Aside from the uncontrolled variability in size and shape, the lowest level boots sometimes fit because they naturally stretch a bit to fit your foot, but higher level boots don't.

[Query]

P.S. Blade length is a complicated issue.

In principle, ideal blade length and shape has almost nothing to do with the boot, and everything to do with your personal anatomy, because, AFAICT, what you mostly want to do, through blade length, shape, and placement, is

1. Place the sweet spot (curvature change point, which is more or less a good balance point) just behind and underneath the ball of your foot, so you can balance easily both slightly behind, and at, the sweet spot. (BTW, a really good skate sharpener can modify sweet spot placement - so if your sharpener is that good, this is a secondary criteria.)
2. Place the back of the blade an appropriate distance behind and underneath the back of your heel. It needs to be short enough that you don't trip on your tails, but long enough to keep skate friction to a minimum, and prevent you from falling backwards on jump landings, and other moves where you might otherwise fall backwards.
3. Place the toe pick an optimal distance (varies by skater) ahead of and underneath the front of your toes, so the amount of toe point your foot needs to reach and jump off of your picks is comfortable and controllable, and just plain feels right. Part of what makes that complicated is that factors associated with controllability vary with both anatomy (e.g., flexibility) and skating skill.

However, because the points of your foot project approximately vertically to points on the ice, if your new boots have a higher heel, you would need a slightly shorter blade, all other things being equal. In addition, most fitters, in practice, mount the front of the blade mounting plate flush with the front of the outsole. While that is quite arbitrary, silly, and isn't always optimal for you, it means that outsole placement on the boot does affect what your blade length should be, so you can't ignore the boot maker's advice completely.

Advanced blades make it easier to reach the toe pick, so it is conceivable, depending on your body, that you might want a slightly longer blade to partially compensate - but I'm not too sure of that. (Mark IV's are very much beginner blades, and are deliberately designed to make it less likely for a skater to accidentally touch the toe picks.)

A really good fitter can try to make a good guess on what blade length will be optimal for you, though there aren't many fitters that good. But if you trust him/her reasonably well, it's a good starting point.

Good luck!

[ChristyRN]

I went from the Competitor to the Premiere a little over a year ago and the difference is huge. It wasn't so much that it was a bit stiffer, but the heel and achilles padding was much thicker. I can't wear two pairs of tights any more, just one pair gets pulled up because the heels are so much snugger. I have NO heel movement now.    And you really want to go to a local fitter to mount your blades and heat mold your boots.