Competing without a coach present

[~Twinkies~]

My daughter is a beginning skater, competing at a Basic 4 level.  There is a basic skills competition she'd like to enter, but it's far from home.  I can't bear the cost for the coach to travel; since it will only be one skater, we'd pay the whole cost - which in this case is close to $1,000.  She would like to enter this specific competition because it's where my in-laws live, we can plan a family visit around it and the relatives (grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins) would be able to come and watch her skate.

I asked her coach what she thought of her skating without her there.  She told me that some events won't let skaters compete without a coach present (or prior coach approval?) and they certainly won't allow me to accompany my DD rink side before her event in the coach's place.  Since DD is new to competition, she doesn't think it's a good idea for her to "go it alone," which I can't argue with.

I contacted the competition chairperson and asked them if a) skaters without coaches are permitted, and b) if I would be allowed to accompany my skater rink side in place of her coach.  They replied: yes and yes.  She is certainly welcome to participate without her coach present and I can stand in for the coach rink side.

She's a low level skater, and she competes for fun.  The competitions and working on a program give her concrete goals to reach in her skating, provide a little ego boost along the way to keep her motivated to work hard and learn more.  She's not an Olympic hopeful.  She takes it seriously, but for her it's not so high-stakes that she feels like her future rides on the results of this event.  Sometimes her coach takes things a bit too seriously, though.  I'm trying to figure out if this is one of those times, or if I really am out of line thinking of having her compete one event with me as her "stand in coach." 

After all that longwindedness, here's my question - has anyone done this?  Have you or would you compete (or have your child compete) under this circumstance? 

[fsk8r]

I'm an adult so I don't get the mother standing at the boards for me, but I will get friends to stand in. They generally just keep me distracted so I don't get too nervous.
My coach would however expect to go with me for a local competition but appreciates that for a more distant one she won't. She would however be aware of when I'm due to compete and send text messages in advance wishing me luck and helpful hints.
Given that your daughter is still competing basic skills, that would seem like an appropriate thing to do. It sounds like a wonderful idea for her to compete close to her grandparents as I'm sure they would love to see her skate.

 

[jjane45]

She's a low level skater, and she competes for fun. 

I have never competed but have tested without a coach present. It was alright.

Considering you are permitted to be present, I'd say it's not a problem as long as she is not afraid of skating in front of a crowd of strangers.

[Live2Sk8]

I'm an adult skater and I have competed many times without my coach present.  I think it's wonderful for your daughter to participate in this competition where extended family can come cheer her on.  I think her coach is being too hard core about needing to be there.  Make it a fun opportunity and a way for your daughter to 'show off' in front of her relatives.  This will probably be something she remembers forever!  If you want some advice on what to say rinkside - my coach always says to have a good time, remember to breathe and to smile.  That's all you need to say, too.  Hope you decide to sign her up!

[icedancer]

One thing you could do that your coach may approach of and may be affordable and fun for your daughter would be to contact a coach in the area where she will be competing (maybe your coach even knows someone) - who would be willing to put her on the ice - they might require that you do one lesson first so they can get to know each other a little.

Have a good time - it sounds like fun (which is what skating should be after all!).

[JSM]

icedancer2 has a great suggestion!  I know plenty of skaters who have met up with a local coach to help them on the ice.  Spending that much money on getting the coach there is very unrealistic, IMO, especially for a Basic Skills competition.

I've put myself on the ice more often than I have had a coach present, both as a child and as an adult.  To be honest I prefer to go it alone- my coach makes me nervous.  Besides, if you have prepared properly for a competition, and are ready physically and mentally, I think the skater can do just fine on their own. 

Your daughter will have a great time at the competition with family around!  You know your daughter and what she needs to hear.  Tell her she's ready and to smile!

[SynchKat]

Ice dancer has a good suggestion.  Coaches are usually more than happy stand in.  Heck it makes them a little extra money.

I have though as a kid competed with my mo. by the boards. I don't remember any problems with it. As an adult if I competed I wouldn't have a coach. M

[~Twinkies~]

Thank you to everyone who replied.  I really do appreciate the input.  We're so new to skating that I'm constantly second guessing myself and doubting if my judgement is sound. 

My DD is 9 - which is a tough, hyper-sensitive age for girls like mine.  She's not super confident or super athletic, but she loves to skate.  Her coach is really great at working with her on skills and has handled some tense emotional times during the past 2 years.   But, sometimes we're on different wavelengths about the intensity with which she wants to pursue competitive skating and the importance of each individual week/class/practice/event.

  I think her coach is being too hard core about needing to be there.  Make it a fun opportunity and a way for your daughter to 'show off' in front of her relatives.  This will probably be something she remembers forever!

This is exactly how I feel.  It seems like her coach is being too 'hard core' and serious about it, when my DD is excited about the chance to go 'show off' for the grandparents (et al) during an a actual skating competition.  What are the chances that there would be an event local to them at the exact time we're planning to visit?  It feels like karma.  I have until next week to enter her.  I keep bringing up the entry form, then abandoning it because I don't have the coach's support.  Maybe I just don't trust myself to go against her advice at this point.

Convince me!!

[MadMac]

I think your coach could stand to lighten up a bit. I understand the concern coach has for guiding a young skater through the first competition, but that can certainly be done with the help of a surrogate coach as suggested above. Contact the club hosting the competition and ask for a few names of local coaches who might be willing to guide your skater through the competition. I'm sure there will be someone willing to take it on. Even the elite skaters do this sort of thing at times when their head coach cannot accompany them. I like the suggestion of arranging a lesson with the surrogate before the actual competition. Although not required, this would let your skater get to know the surrogate and help them both to feel more comfortable. It would not have to be more than a 10 to 15-minute lesson I would think.

Respectfully explain all this to the coach from the perspective of her/his employer, which is what you are. Include the fact that you checked it all out with the competition chair and got their approval.
 
You could also go the route of putting your skater on the ice yourself, however, you will enjoy the experience more if you can turn your skater over to a coach and just stand back in the roll of proud parent. Like many others here, I generally put myself on the ice. But I'm an adult, not a 9-yr-old first-time competitor.
Hope it all works out well for everyone. Enjoy!

[Skating_Jen]

My coach was never present at my competitions. Not even the close ones. I always had my mum there :-)

[blue111moon]

We're talking a Basic Skills competition, not Regionals or a large Open.  It's supposed to be a fun competition.  So if your daughter wants to skate, I say let her, coach or no coach.  Have her grandparents cheer her on and then afterwards go out for a meal or ice cream and celebrate no matter where she comes in. 

As for prep, I'd just go over what she needs a coach for before the competition:  to keep her calm, to help her remember the program, to offer encouragement, and then do ONLY that.  I compete myself without a coach all the time (my previous coach got too nervous and it stressed me out so I was better off without her.) and I've served my fellow skaters as stand-in coach many, many times.  When I fill in, I figure that my role is to simply encourage and hold stuff (sweaters, guards, tissues, etc.).  To my way of thinking, the warm-up for a competition isn't really a time for a technique lesson anyway, so I generally limit my comments to generalities like "Keep your head up." and "Smile!"  My general mantra is "We do this because it's FUN!" which is always a good thought to remember.  And when the skater finishes, I always try to have something positive to say and a hug. 

[~Twinkies~]

Thanks for the confidence.  She has competed before, twice, at our home rink.  There is another competition that she wanted to skate in this summer that is 2 hours away, but the coach talked her out of it.  Now, this one has come up and she really wants to do it.  We're going to go for it.  I'm going to ask her coach if she knows anyone in that area that she can recommend as a stand-in coach for that day.  If she doesn't have a recommendation, I'll call the rink's skating program director and get her advice.  I'm more comfortable with that arrangement and I can enjoy the day as a spectator.

When I consider my relationship with the coach as more of an employer/employee situation, it makes me realize that I am the one in control and she should be supporting and encouraging my daughter in the ways I desire more than pushing her in the direction she (as a coach) wants.  Since we're new to the world of skating, I guess I was letting her intimidate me, which is rather silly.

[FigureSpins]

Is it possible you misunderstood what the coach said, or you caught her off-guard and she was tongue-tied?

In the past few years, the USFSA has implemented coach/instructor registration and education compliance.  While all of the test sessions, non-qualifying and qualifying competitions have enforced the rules, Basic Skills events were pretty laid-back about who could put skaters on the ice for those events.

It's possible that your coach was warning you that YOU might not be allowed to put your DD on the ice.  That means being in the coaching areas near the ice during practices, warmups and competition.  Some clubs won't allow parents in those areas because of traffic or compliance concerns.  Others don't even pay attention to who's blocking the door, lol. 

I think this is an opportunity for your DD to step up and take ownership of her skating, by going it without a coach to plan the hour or so.  I'm proud when my students feel confident enough to try a competition solo because it means they are prepared well, and they know what to practice/warmup.  A 9 year old can pull that off easily, assuming your coach works with her to plan it out during practices at home.  With the friends/family in the audience rooting for her, it could be a lot of fun.

I think your plan sounds fine.  If they're using Entryeeze, your coach will have to approve the entry, so just make sure she's on board.

As a coach, I don't feel that skaters should miss out on fun opportunities in skating just so that I can control everything.  I've had skaters go to competitions, workshops, etc. without me and they did fine, even if they didn't skate well. Some skaters do need support and coaching at events, but not all.

[4711]

Unless you are in danger of being dropped by the coach, I would say to just go.

I mean, the expectations are low, there won't be any people she skates with making fun of her should she belly flop. This is just a great way to show family what she is doing, having the ice to herself (I am guessing) and her best outfit on.

I think this is a great way to break the ice for competition. Win, lose or draw, it will be the throw-away fun show.

Although I don't skate, I have to say I am amazed at the level of dependency I encounter (not skating specific, mind you).
Most of my family rode at some level of competition. There was never a coach on the sidelines, always 'only' a parent, my sister went 99% solo!

My son and I competed in martial arts with an organization not set up for coaching, nor was the format. bring what you got, hope you brought enough! It was a friendly atmosphere for most parts, and the learning opportunities were  great. Especially in adversity, I might add! Heck, once I started competing, I did not even get to watch my kid, since our mats ran at the same time!

There is a point when the person with the wallet (parent, athlete) has to make it clear just who is paying the bills!

Since the event organizers will let you come without coach, I do believe this is meant to be!

[PinkLaces]

I have been in your situation. There was a competition that my daughter wanted to compete at because her cousins were also competing at it. It was 350 miles away. I would've paid for the coach to come, but she didn't want to.  She allowed my DD to compete (needed coach's signature on the competition form), because my sister who is a registered coach was going to be there to put her out. She was 12 at the time and new to competing.

I get that most adults put themselves out for competitions and tests. I think it is a little different when it is a kid and an inexperienced one. I don't think the coach is being a jerk by being concerned. You said that the coach has handled some tense emotional moments with your daughter. I've seen my daughter get a little worked up after a bad warm up. Her coach was able to get her calm.

 Being without a coach can be a disadvantage if the skater gets nervous or if there is question about rules. My daughter (then 18) skated at ISI Worlds last year without a coach. There was a question about the rules that came up. Another coach (my daughter had made friends with her skater during the week) was kind enough to look into it for us.

I am not saying not to compete away without a coach. My daughter did several times...even took some dance tests without her coach due to partnering issues.

What I am saying is work with your coach. If the competition will let you stand in, great. The competition that my daughter competed at was very strict about only letting people with USFS certs behind the barrier. Work with the coach for a warm up plan. Help your daughter remember the all the elements in her program and the order. Sometimes kids forget. It happens especially at a new/different rink.

I would tell the coach that your daughter really wants to skate to show her family. Ask her how you both can make that happen. Get her on your side.

[icedancer]

Is it possible you misunderstood what the coach said, or you caught her off-guard and she was tongue-tied?

In the past few years, the USFSA has implemented coach/instructor registration and education compliance.  While all of the test sessions, non-qualifying and qualifying competitions have enforced the rules, Basic Skills events were pretty laid-back about who could put skaters on the ice for those events.

It's possible that your coach was warning you that YOU might not be allowed to put your DD on the ice.  That means being in the coaching areas near the ice during practices, warmups and competition.  Some clubs won't allow parents in those areas because of traffic or compliance concerns.  Others don't even pay attention to who's blocking the door, lol. 

This is what I thought when I first read this thread - even a Basic Skills competitions there may be rules about who carries an official credential and who is allowed to be there next to the ice for the skaters.  I don't know if a parent gets a credential or not.

I judged a local competition recently that was Basic Skills + USFS non-qualifying up to Senior level and one of the judges asked about the credential of a coach that she did not know who was standing at the rail.  So yes, people are definitely looking at that.

[~Twinkies~]

It's possible that your coach was warning you that YOU might not be allowed to put your DD on the ice.  That means being in the coaching areas near the ice during practices, warmups and competition.  Some clubs won't allow parents in those areas because of traffic or compliance concerns.  Others don't even pay attention to who's blocking the door, lol. 
......
I think your plan sounds fine.  If they're using Entryeeze, your coach will have to approve the entry, so just make sure she's on board.

As a coach, I don't feel that skaters should miss out on fun opportunities in skating just so that I can control everything.  I've had skaters go to competitions, workshops, etc. without me and they did fine, even if they didn't skate well. Some skaters do need support and coaching at events, but not all.

Her coach told me we shouldn't enter specifically because they would not allow me into the coaching area to put her on the ice.  She was not caught off guard, she had her answer ready to go.  It's the same excuse she used to talk us out of attending another basic skills competition this summer that's 2 hours from home.  There are 3 girls from our rink that all wanted to compete, but the coach is unavailable that weekend so she told the girls they couldn't go without her.  I wish I had questioned it earlier because, between the 3 families, we could have hired a local guest coach for the day.  That alternative plan never crossed my mind.

Even though the club near my relatives has told me that I will be allowed to put her on the ice, I'm going to contact the director and see if she can recommend a local coach I can hire for the morning as a stand in.  The registration is through Entryeeze, so I will certainly tell her coach of our plans before I register her.  I may steal your sentiment about how my DD shouldn't miss out on fun opportunities just so that the coach can control everything, because that is exactly what I feel is going on here. 

[Irene]

Hi there ~  We have the exact same situation and are also evalutaing skating without a coach for a showcase event for my 9 year old prelim skater.  I have a call into the hosting club to find out if we need one as well as email into the local skating club to see if any coaches may be interested in helping us out.  Her jump coach is going to be attending with another family for whom he is the primary coach.  I could segue off of that to have him there for us as well but really don't want the significant cross country travel expenses. We chose this event specifically to skate for our extended family and so are there for fun -- not necessarily placement.  Still, do you think the jump coach will feel that we have dissed him seeing that he is already attending?  I aim to be honest and let him know that, much as we'd love to have him with us at the event, his travel on our behalf just ins't in this year's skating budget.  Hope we don't feel awkward when we see him there.  Thoughts?

[SynchKat]

Twinkies...any updates?

Irene...let thre jump coach know the situation.  I think he wo use be miffed if he saw you there with another coach and also once he saw you might decide to help out and you might end up with an unexpected bill.  Best to be up front in this case.

[~Twinkies~]

I'm having my DD meet with one of the coaches at the hosting rink for practice ice in the AM before the competition and that same coach will put her on the ice for her event.  Oddly enough, shortly after I told her coach of our plans, I got a call from the director of the competition apologizing for giving me the wrong information about accompanying her rinkside - that I would not be allowed to unless I had coaching credentials.  I can't be sure our coach called and instigated that, but the timing was very, very suspect.

Here's the thing that's pissing me off.  Her coach is being a real downer.  She clearly doesn't want her to go anywhere or participate in anything outside of our home rink and/or the coach's small universe of control.  I can't figure out why, though.  This is a fun thing and it feels like she's crapping on it for my DD.  Maybe doing this competition is not the optimum circumstances, maybe the situation isn't perfect, but my DD is willing to go out on a limb and stretch her courage in order to do it.  She's self-motivated and willing to take a risk.  Shouldn't her coach be behind that?  She's a little emotional in a newbie 9-year-old sort of way.  Worst case scenario, she'll let the jitters get the best of her and not skate at her best.  So what?  She's a pretty mature, clear-headed kid - she's certainly not so fragile that if she does poorly it will stop her from skating.

Irene - I would be up front with the jumping coach, let him know that you'll be there as an aside during a family vacation, and that pitching in on his travel expenses is outside of your budget.  I have to think these things happen all the time.  I think it will be uncomfortable if you don't say anything, then see him at the event.

[4711]

I'm having my DD meet with one of the coaches at the hosting rink for practice ice in the AM before the competition and that same coach will put her on the ice for her event.  Oddly enough, shortly after I told her coach of our plans, I got a call from the director of the competition apologizing for giving me the wrong information about accompanying her rinkside - that I would not be allowed to unless I had coaching credentials.  I can't be sure our coach called and instigated that, but the timing was very, very suspect.

Here's the thing that's pissing me off.  Her coach is being a real downer.  She clearly doesn't want her to go anywhere or participate in anything outside of our home rink and/or the coach's small universe of control.  I can't figure out why, though.  This is a fun thing and it feels like she's crapping on it for my DD.  Maybe doing this competition is not the optimum circumstances, maybe the situation isn't perfect, but my DD is willing to go out on a limb and stretch her courage in order to do it.  She's self-motivated and willing to take a risk.  Shouldn't her coach be behind that?  She's a little emotional in a newbie 9-year-old sort of way.  Worst case scenario, she'll let the jitters get the best of her and not skate at her best.  So what?  She's a pretty mature, clear-headed kid - she's certainly not so fragile that if she does poorly it will stop her from skating.

Ah, bummer. But good for you for finding somebody.
I wish I could tell you what it is that makes coaches so controlling. A fascinating subject for me, looking in from the outside.
But I guess it tell you where you stand with her. Good heads up to have, makes shopping around easier....
I am keeping my fingers crossed for DD!

Irene - I would be up front with the jumping coach, let him know that you'll be there as an aside during a family vacation, and that pitching in on his travel expenses is outside of your budget.  I have to think these things happen all the time.  I think it will be uncomfortable if you don't say anything, then see him at the event.

If the jumping coach is already there, why not hire her!

[Clarice]

Oddly enough, shortly after I told her coach of our plans, I got a call from the director of the competition apologizing for giving me the wrong information about accompanying her rinkside - that I would not be allowed to unless I had coaching credentials.  I can't be sure our coach called and instigated that, but the timing was very, very suspect.

No, this has nothing to do with your coach, and everything to do with USFS.  In recent years they've instituted mandatory coach registration, which involves having a criminal background check done, proving that you have liabiilty insurance, and a program of continuing education.  Coaches have to pay a fee and re-register each year.  Non-compliant coaches are not allowed to put skaters on for competitions or tests.  USFS has sent some pretty strongly worded messages to clubs reminding them of their responsibility to enforce coaching compliance at their events.  All coaches have to present their credentials in order to stand by the boards at a competition.  No parents or non-credentialed coaches will be allowed to coach from the boards.  I have no idea why your coach is so negative about this event (I think it's a great opportunity to skate for family, and wouldn't object if one of my students wanted to do something like this.  I'd prepare the skater and Mom to handle things on their own.), but this particular issue isn't coming from them.

[~Twinkies~]

I'm aware that the USFS has rules about who is allowed rinkside, but in this case the director had personally told me it would be OK for me to accompany my DD and put her on the ice.  Then, shortly after me relaying that to our coach, she changed her stance.  Perhaps she had received a reminder letter from the USFS and that's what spurred her call, but the timing was really strange.  In addition, the director knew I had hired a local coach for the event and wasn't planning to be enter the competitors' area (she helped me arrange it), but felt compelled to call and let me know about the "misinformation" anyway.  The whole thing was just weird.

[fsk8r]

I'm aware that the USFS has rules about who is allowed rinkside, but in this case the director had personally told me it would be OK for me to accompany my DD and put her on the ice.  Then, shortly after me relaying that to our coach, she changed her stance.  Perhaps she had received a reminder letter from the USFS and that's what spurred her call, but the timing was really strange.  In addition, the director knew I had hired a local coach for the event and wasn't planning to be enter the competitors' area (she helped me arrange it), but felt compelled to call and let me know about the "misinformation" anyway.  The whole thing was just weird.

She may have wanted to let you know in case you enter again in the future and decide to go it alone. They probably don't get too many skaters who are out of area competing.

[CaraSkates]

Oddly enough, shortly after I told her coach of our plans, I got a call from the director of the competition apologizing for giving me the wrong information about accompanying her rinkside - that I would not be allowed to unless I had coaching credentials.  I can't be sure our coach called and instigated that, but the timing was very, very suspect.

That comes straight from USFS - and it is a recent thing. The director may not have been aware because in past years, parents/friends had been able to put skaters on (not sure if it was allowed but it happened!). July 1 marked the start of the new skating year and this year all clubs have to comply with Safe Sport, putting extra emphasis on coach background checks and clearance. Just in the past six months, I have seen many more competitions introduce credentials - where the coach must check in and get a badge that must be displayed to enter the area where skaters get on the ice. Ice monitors have been very strict about enforcing that just in the past few months. I would guess the director thought it was ok at first and then got an email from USFS reminding them about the new coaching policies.