skatingforums
On the Ice => The Pro Shop => Topic started by: icefrog on December 05, 2010, 09:51:48 PM
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So I was looking around the Jackson Ultima website for a friend today who is looking for skates and I found some new things. Jackson Finesse boots and a Finesse blade.
Boot
http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/Index.aspx?product=eqn4FaNKEoXot1a2b3c4d5esslU1a2b3c4d5eEZw1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E (http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/Index.aspx?product=eqn4FaNKEoXot1a2b3c4d5esslU1a2b3c4d5eEZw1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E)
Blade
http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/Index.aspx?product=qS9/3u1a2b3c4d5e1a2b3c4d5e7yjoW2ayDQMYnw1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E (http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/Index.aspx?product=qS9/3u1a2b3c4d5e1a2b3c4d5e7yjoW2ayDQMYnw1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E)
The boot looks like a cut down Premier and the blade looks like the Synchro blade from what I can see in the picture. Does anyone have any information on them? Can jumps be done in the Finesse boot? It looks very interesting and I want the set lol.
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Both seem to be geared towards synchro or dance rather than freestyle. The boots definitely are, with the rolled top and low heel back. It says the boot is very flexible, so I think that they'd break down quickly if you did freestyle jumps and spins in them.
The blade description indicates that jumps are do-able on the blades; it would be like using a beginner blade. If you currently have blades with a big toerake (like Pattern 99's), this would take a while to get used to since the smallish toerake is higher. The biggest obstacle would be the 8' rocker radius if you're used to a 7' rocker.
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I'm kind of planning ahead lol. I have newish skates and I won't need new ones for another year or so. I do dance and freestyle, but I enjoy dance much much more, but since I've done freestyle since my teenage years I don't want to let that part of me go just yet (even if I'm terrible at it). My blades have a smaller toe pick and I'm in Ultima blades already so it wouldn't be a huge change. I'm not a genius at dance, but I like it so much more. These boots look really nice I was wondering if they were stiff enough for my jumps even if the best I can do on an awesome day is an axel.
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bumping up an old thread...
Does anyone know anything about the Finesse boot?
The Premier was suggested to me yesterday, but a few coaches (not my current one...will have to see what he thinks) have suggested I look into a dance boot, for better knee/ankle bend. This seems to be a synchro boot- so it's a little bit of a dance/freestyle boot rolled into one.
I do freestyle, and a poster on the thread mentioned they'd worry about a synchro boot breaking down- but current synchro demands some pretty high level freestyle skills. I'm not doing axels, and those synchro girls are definetly doing flips and loops. Or are high level synchro skaters in stiffer boots than these?
How do you think this boot would work for low level adult freestyle (like bronze level)?
I'm not looking at the finesse blade, as I don't want a shorter tail... I'm probably going to go with their legacy if my paramounts don't fit on the new skates.
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I'm in the Jackson synchro boot and there's no problem jumping in the boots. They're designed to withstand jumps through doubles. Synchro demands jumps up through axel, so the boots have to be relatively tough.
I'd say the synchro boots are as tough as the Elite as my previous boots were the Elite Plus.
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Hmm...it looks like Jackson has two synchro style boots: the "Advanced Synchro" and the "Finesse". The Adv. Synchro is listed as "Strong Support" whereas the Finesse is listed as "Moderate Support". I'm not looking at the Synchro boot (the Elite would be WAY too much boot for me) but the Finesse.
The Finesse appears to be very similar to the Premier (but with the low back) and that is listed as "Firm Support". I wish I knew what Moderate/Strong/Firm (or Firm/Strong?) meant in relation to each other...
Looking at the pictures it also looks like the Finesse is cut lower than the Synchro, where the synchro's hard boot stops at the same place, but then it has a softer support that goes a bit higher up, like the elite dance does.
Can I ask you what you think about jumps/spins in a low back boot? I'm a pretty low level skater- is it going to freak me out, and make me feel like I don't have enough ankle support? (The idea here is to help increase bend, so I know I'd be losing some ankle support.) Do you think the coach's idea to go with the dance/synchro boot to help bend/foot articulation makes sense?
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I just bought Edea boots at the PSA Conference, and have a coupon for a deep discount on Jackson Ultima blades, which I am using for the Finesse. The Jackson rep at the conference told me it is an intro dance blade. It has all the dance blade characteristics except that it is the same thickness as freestyle blades.
I will be starting in my new equipment in mid-June. I'm currently in custom Klingbeils and Coronation Aces a half inch longer than my Finesse blades will be, so wish me luck! I think many swizzles and lots of simple figure 8's are in my near future :)
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I will be very interested to read your impressions of the Edea boots. Many of the kids around here are in them now and say they are great. My coach just tried them and had to return them. She said they felt great when she tried them on in the shop. Once the blades were mounted though, she found the ankles lacked stability -- like wearing a broken down hockey skate is how she put it. She is very particular about the feel of the ankle support and said she could not detect the problem before the blades were mounted.
Hope your experience is much more positive. Please post and let us know!
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I don't jump, except for bunny hops, and got the Edeas because I need a boot that feels secure while not laced as tightly as possible. The Edeas were as close to a perfect fit as I've ever experienced, and I'm pretty desperate to relieve the pressure on my feet, so I'm giving them a try. I'll definitely check in after I've skated in them a while.
Edited to add that I tried on all the models, and found the the Chorus, to be the best for me. I had hoped to get the Flamenco Ice dance boot but the ankle area exerted way too much pressure. Another coach, also trying Edeas at the same time, said the same thing, so I think they must make the ankles narrower on that boot.
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and got the Edeas because I need a boot that feels secure while not laced as tightly as possible.
Really interesting- the only complaint I've ever heard about Edeas is that they won't stay tight enough. One ended up switching back to his other boots, the other girl deals with it but relaces often. But both skaters I know who have had them do triples, so that is probably a big difference.
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Really interesting- the only complaint I've ever heard about Edeas is that they won't stay tight enough.
As I said on FB, the fitter instructed me in lacing the boots, and it really did require instruction. They use a nylon/cotton blend lace, and have to be laced through the top of the holes, which locks the laces in place at each hole, thus allowing for variability in tightness up the foot. That's one of the things I liked. I'm sure you could do that with any boot, but the Edeas also fit me extremely well, whereas the Jackson fitter told me I needed a different size for each of my feet. That was after trying to put me into a recreational skate that looked like a ski boot with the "power strap." :o Jackson did not have their act together at the conference. They treated me like garbage the first time I went there to see about boots and I almost did not go back for the blades, but 50% off is a lot of money to walk away from.
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Hmm...it looks like Jackson has two synchro style boots: the "Advanced Synchro" and the "Finesse". The Adv. Synchro is listed as "Strong Support" whereas the Finesse is listed as "Moderate Support". I'm not looking at the Synchro boot (the Elite would be WAY too much boot for me) but the Finesse.
Don't be too quick to reject the Synchro boot. I have those and I'm by no means a high-level skater (dancer at the equivalent of probably USA bronze level). Obviously you'll be guided by your coach, but I looked at the video you posted in another thread, and I'd be worried that the Finesse is too little boot for you - it's not very firm?
I wish I knew what Moderate/Strong/Firm (or Firm/Strong?) meant in relation to each other...
From the Jackson site:
Freestyle boot = 45 ("moderate")
Finesse = 45 ("moderate") - according to Kinzie's Closet. Jackson doesn't have the rating on its own site - not sure why.
The current Competitor boot/blade set is rated 55 ("firm"). I don't know whether you have the current model Competitor or the older one (you said your current boots were used when you got them) - I've been told that the older model was stronger than the current one.
Premiere boot = 65 ("firm")
Synchro = 70 ("strong")
Elite = 75 ("strong")
Elite Dance = 80 ("strong")
Elite Supreme can elect 69/80/90/95.
That puts the new Finesse boots as the equivalent of the Freestyle (in other words, lightweight skater doing beginner dance), and the Synchro boot as the rough equivalent of the Premiere. The Elite Dance is the equivalent of the Elite.
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Can I ask you what you think about jumps/spins in a low back boot? I'm a pretty low level skater- is it going to freak me out, and make me feel like I don't have enough ankle support? (The idea here is to help increase bend, so I know I'd be losing some ankle support.) Do you think the coach's idea to go with the dance/synchro boot to help bend/foot articulation makes sense?
I've got the synchro boots for doing dance with. I liked the knee bend but wanted the firmness given that's what I'm used to as I wanted the jump option. I've also got synchro blades. And I've finally started doing synchro in them.
In terms of jumping, I hated jumping in them when I first got them. Mainly because I had no knee bend so then I did rock back and notice the low back. But now I've broken the boots in, there's no issues at all. I don't even notice the low back when jumping as your weight is over your toes when you land. Also note my original problems jumping were probably more to do with being worried about the shorter blades as I was worried I was going to fall backwards (which makes you lean back!)
But I now don't worry about jumping in them at all.
But the dance coach loves them because she gets toe pointing without any effort at all. It proves I was trying all along, but just couldn't do it in freestyle boots which come halfway up your calf.
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One note: the Finesse boot only comes in "B" and "C" width, so if you need a wider width, you're out of luck.
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Don't be too quick to reject the Synchro boot. I have those and I'm by no means a high-level skater (dancer at the equivalent of probably USA bronze level). Obviously you'll be guided by your coach, but I looked at the video you posted in another thread, and I'd be worried that the Finesse is too little boot for you - it's not very firm?
Well the synchro boot is out of my price range, is the issue...
I need to ask the coach what he thinks of the Finesse- I worry it's not firm enough too. If it's equivelent to the freestyle, I'm in a stronger boot than that now, but I've had it for years, got it used, and it's not creasing at all- so it's possible I don't need much firmer. Kids do doubles in the freestyle, and while they are much lighter than me, I won't ever go above a flip...
Much to consider...
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Well the synchro boot is out of my price range, is the issue...
I need to ask the coach what he thinks of the Finesse- I worry it's not firm enough too. If it's equivelent to the freestyle, I'm in a stronger boot than that now, but I've had it for years, got it used, and it's not creasing at all- so it's possible I don't need much firmer. Kids do doubles in the freestyle, and while they are much lighter than me, I won't ever go above a flip...
Much to consider...
I think it depends on the skater... I have the elite plus (stiffness rating is 85 I think?) and I have creased them, but just barely (the creases on mine have formed just at the edge of the eyelet below the flex notches).. that took about 6 months of actual skating time over the course of about a year.
I am obviously not doing doubles right now, but I've always been very hard on boots - I have always needed boots much stiffer than my skating level would otherwise suggest, and I've never had problems with knee or ankle bend, even in stiff boots. I love my boots and I am happy I didn't go with something softer - I would probably be boot shopping by now, but I expect mine to last at least another year, and hopefully longer than that.
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One note: the Finesse boot only comes in "B" and "C" width, so if you need a wider width, you're out of luck.
Not sure if the Finesse/Freestyle can be made wider as a "semi custom" for their usual charge of $50? Or does that service only start at Competitor/Synchro?
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I think I read in the Mr. Edge article about the new line that it starts at the Competitor.
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I would be very interested to know the stiffness of the old line...so when we boot shop we can compare (exactly what # are my old Elites compared to my old Competitors?) KWIM?
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I would be very interested to know the stiffness of the old line...so when we boot shop we can compare (exactly what # are my old Elites compared to my old Competitors?) KWIM?
I just had a look on the Jackson site and they no longer have the link to superseded models they used to have.
Grrr.
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You could try emailing them for the info - I would think they'd still have it. Who knows, if they get enough requests, maybe they'll put it back up on their site.
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I would definetly like to know how the old competitor compares to the new one! That will make a huge difference in whether or not the Finesse is appropriate for me.
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The Jackson Discontinued Models page is here: http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/ContentPage.aspx?SitePageId=Nco0ysU0IM0/bgwiBzcLpw1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E
But it doesn't have detailed information on the boots' stiffness or features. The numeric stiffness ratings are newfor 2011, so you won't find anything in the old catalogs that say the Competitors were "## support rating."
IIRC, the models in order of stiffness were:
. Mystique
. Glacier
. Artiste
. Classique / Marquis (Men/Boys)
. Freestyle
. Competitor (old version)
. Premiere (Introduced after the original Competitor was out of production)
. Elite
. Elite Plus
. Elite Supreme
. Elite Supreme Stiff
When they were reintroduced to the product line, the competitors were reported to be more stiff and less padded than the older model.
http://skating.zachariahs.com/skatingforums-onice/www.skatingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-31260.html
From reading personal reviews on the web, it seems that the Premiere boots are more stiff than the old Competitors, but not as stiff as the new Competitors.
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Well the synchro boot is out of my price range, is the issue...
I need to ask the coach what he thinks of the Finesse- I worry it's not firm enough too. If it's equivelent to the freestyle, I'm in a stronger boot than that now, but I've had it for years, got it used, and it's not creasing at all- so it's possible I don't need much firmer. Kids do doubles in the freestyle, and while they are much lighter than me, I won't ever go above a flip...
Much to consider...
Did you ever ask your coach about this? I love the huge pick on my elites, and the support of the premieres for jumping, but those picks are hell for dance . . . I'm wondering about the finesse boot & blade as a second pair. The price point is low enough that I could swing it without too many tears, lol, and if the boot is supportive enough for dance, I'd rather do that than switch out my elites for something with less pick (legacy?).
Is anyone else working with two pairs of skates? I used to do it for figures and freestyle and don't remember having trouble switching back and forth . . . then again, I didn't have trouble with much back then, but I'm having trouble with everything these days. :P
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I don't do dance at all, so my needs were difference- I was not looking at the Finesse blade, just the boot.
In the end, we decided the idea could work if I got the upper level dance boot, as it would have enough stiffness for jumps, but the Finesse would not. The upper level dance boot was too expensive for me, so I ditched the low-cut back idea.
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I don't do dance at all, so my needs were difference- I was not looking at the Finesse blade, just the boot.
In the end, we decided the idea could work if I got the upper level dance boot, as it would have enough stiffness for jumps, but the Finesse would not. The upper level dance boot was too expensive for me, so I ditched the low-cut back idea.
Do you mean the Edea boot?
I tried on their dance boot, but it pinched me just behind the ankle bones. None of the other boots did that. Someone else had the same comment on the dance boot.
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No, I am talking about Jackson boots.
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Thanks, Skittle - good to know. I'm still super curious about them though. Hmm . . . I foresee a trip to my pro-shop in the near future.
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They have the same strength level as the Jackson Freestyle. If you are doing low level dances, then they should work for you.
But if you are doing the higher level dances that put more stress on the boot, then it might not be enough.
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I have JAckson Classiques now and they've got another 6 months in them, and I'm thinking of getting the Finesse next year. The one thing I want to know is the boot actually shorter up the leg than the Classique, or are those 3 hooks just spread out wider over the same distance. They're the same stiffness. So maybe it won't make any difference.
That was an issue with another boot I was looking at. It said it was a Dance boot, and it only had 3 hooks, but someone on the board (Bill_S? Jim?) said it was actually the same height as the freestyle boot.
Sorry this is garrulous. It would be better if I could remember what the leg part of the boot is called. The shaft, maybe?
(Rant on: maybe I should just get the wussy JAckson Aspire with its 25 stiffness. It takes me a year to break in a boot God what I wouldn't give for the knees I had as a 14 year old.:Rant Off)
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No, I am talking about Jackson boots.
I was too tired when I read your post! I saw "idea" and thought you might mean "Edea." LOL
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They should have cut down backs. I would bet the front is the same.height as regular boots. That is how dance boots usually are (or they have a flexible back.panel.at the normal.height).
Finesse should be slightly stiffer than classique.
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Great questions. I had the Jackson elite plus dance boot which is now discontinued and I am looking for another boot. I am an adult artistic/ gold/master pairs level skater. I loved the cut back and I usually had dance scallops put into my skates anyway. The dance boots were fine for jumps up to double sal. You do have to have good jump technique, as you can not press back as it's elastic. However, it is very useful in correcting positions in spins. Outside eagles were also harder as you had to really press down and not back. The new boots, DJ3900 do come in different stiffnesses, so if I got them, I'd probably go with strong. I was looking at the finesse boots as well, but am not sure if they would be supportive enough. The current Jackson dance boot is also a strong, and has 3 hooks, which I'm not sure about either. The synchro boot was pretty comfortable, but it, like the pair I currently have do bother the back of my foot where the elastic meets the leather. I wish there were another dance boot oiption. I love the ability to flex and point the toe.
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I don't think they discontinued the dance boot, it's just been renamed to the elite dance? I think they actually made that change a few years ago but I could be wrong.
I don't think I would be able to skate in the finesse - it's just not stiff enough.
Jackson will for a fee modify any stock boot to have a lower back and/or fewer hooks though - you just need a fitter or pro shop aware of the options and how to order the boot that way. One change is $50, but you can make up to 4 (which they consider a semi-custom) for $150.
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Hi,
There were two dance boot options, and I went to reorder mine, and was told it was discontinued. The one I have has 4 hooks and is more like the coach or synchro boot. I had the 3100 elite, but they just didn't fit at all, so I was left with a second pair of new boots that didn't fit (the first were Harlicks). These are now for sale! I went to the shop and Mike took down every boot he had for me to try on, and I chose the dance boot. I really do like it with the exception of the irritation in the back. I also think the finesse boots won't be stiff enough.
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The synchro boot was pretty comfortable, but it, like the pair I currently have do bother the back of my foot where the elastic meets the leather. I wish there were another dance boot oiption. I love the ability to flex and point the toe.
That's a common problem (at least, both DH's and my boots did that! Does that make it "common"??) Solution for us was to put a small piece of duct tape (the 1.5inch wide fabric stuff which is really strong) over the join. Worked a treat. I could wish Jackson did something to their method of joining the elastic to the leather though - it's obviously not a one-off problem.
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Did you ever ask your coach about this? I love the huge pick on my elites, and the support of the premieres for jumping, but those picks are hell for dance . . . I'm wondering about the finesse boot & blade as a second pair. The price point is low enough that I could swing it without too many tears, lol, and if the boot is supportive enough for dance, I'd rather do that than switch out my elites for something with less pick (legacy?).
Is anyone else working with two pairs of skates? I used to do it for figures and freestyle and don't remember having trouble switching back and forth . . . then again, I didn't have trouble with much back then, but I'm having trouble with everything these days. :P
Did you ever get them? Or anyone else? I'm kind of thinking of asking for them with the new Eclipse dance blade and using them as a second dance pair. Decisions decisions.
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No, not yet. I was waiting to see if anyone else was going to post, and then I did something to my foot. I've been off the ice for a few weeks. :(
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I think Agnes mentioned that she ordered a pair of Finesse boots a couple of weeks ago..I haven't seen any update about that though.
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I think Agnes mentioned that she ordered a pair of Finesse boots a couple of weeks ago..I haven't seen any update about that though.
Still waiting for them to come in. Any day now. :WS:
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Still waiting for them to come in. Any day now. :WS:
It was supposed to be today, there were lesson conflicts. Oct 1 is official day I get to pick them up.
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I'm sorry, I forgot to reply to this post after the boots came in. I've only skated in them at the fitters, so I can't give you a report in detail. I blogged about them, here (http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2011/10/new-boots-halloween-scarefest.html), but after Friday when I get a chance to skate in them I'll give a better report.
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I'm sorry, I forgot to reply to this post after the boots came in. I've only skated in them at the fitters, so I can't give you a report in detail. I blogged about them, here (http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2011/10/new-boots-halloween-scarefest.html), but after Friday when I get a chance to skate in them I'll give a better report.
Because I have a dance test soon, I don't want to confuse my feet. I'll post a report in December.
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Thanks Agnes, I'm still off the ice (*headdesk*), so in no hurry to order new boots. Thanks for keeping us in the loop though . . . and good luck on your test! :)
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I have Jackson Classique now, bought because I needed "temporary" boots, and I already suspect they won't last long if I keep skating regularly. But they are a good fit for me - my old Edea caused me way too much pain because of foot cramps; with Jackson I don't have any, and they're comfy like slippers. I want to upgrade to either Premiere or Elite. Technically, Premiere is my level, but I wonder if I also need to take unto account my weight - I'm quite tall and have a but of postpartum "padding" - and go for stiffer boots. My Edea Angel used to be quite stiff, and I like the feeling of strong support. Any thoughts?
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I have Jackson Classique now, bought because I needed "temporary" boots, and I already suspect they won't last long if I keep skating regularly. But they are a good fit for me - my old Edea caused me way too much pain because of foot cramps; with Jackson I don't have any, and they're comfy like slippers. I want to upgrade to either Premiere or Elite. Technically, Premiere is my level, but I wonder if I also need to take unto account my weight - I'm quite tall and have a but of postpartum "padding" - and go for stiffer boots. My Edea Angel used to be quite stiff, and I like the feeling of strong support. Any thoughts?
I'd recommend the Jackson Premiere - that is what I am in and I'm at a similar level to you. I am quite heavy yet they are still fine and very supportive for what I'm doing. They are very comfy boots too! Lots of padding and a rolled topline.
Elites are very stiff boots, I think I'd only move to them if I ever do doubles.
Probably best to go to a shop and try them on to see how you feel in them too, but I think you'll like the Premieres :)