Author Topic: When and how do you decide to move a kid to a 'top level coach'?? (Read 6847 times)

jumpingbeansmom · « **on:** February 27, 2011, 08:19:43 AM »

and other than the obvious (ie Frank Carroll), how do you FIND them? Can a kid even become an elite skater without finding one of these coaches?

Sk8tmum · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2011, 09:29:11 AM »

What do you consider a top level coach? Do you mean the Frank Carroll level or coaches who coach kids who go to nationals, etc?

jumpingbeansmom · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2011, 09:39:27 AM »

Quote from: Sk8tmum on February 27, 2011, 09:29:11 AM

What do you consider a top level coach? Do you mean the Frank Carroll level or coaches who coach kids who go to nationals, etc?

I don't know...all of that I guess.. what is the natural progression for kids who might have the drive, talent and commitment to become one of those top level skaters.

Sierra · « **Reply #3 on:** February 27, 2011, 09:50:59 AM »

What's wrong with the coach you have now? I'd stick with them unless they just don't have the coaching prowess.

jumpingbeansmom · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2011, 09:56:40 AM »

Quote from: Sierra on February 27, 2011, 09:50:59 AM

What's wrong with the coach you have now? I'd stick with them unless they just don't have the coaching prowess.

Nothing at all...we LOVE our coaches...I am just curious as to whether a kid can stay with their local coach to become a top level skater or whether it really isn't possible in the long term.

icefrog · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2011, 12:23:18 PM »

I know if you live in a skating area with many rinks some talented kids will get in with a big name coach for just once a week. Hoping eventually they will be a fulltime student when it is needed.

jumpingbeansmom · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2011, 12:38:40 PM »

Quote from: icefrog on February 27, 2011, 12:23:18 PM

I know if you live in a skating area with many rinks some talented kids will get in with a big name coach for just once a week. Hoping eventually they will be a fulltime student when it is needed.

Yeah, we don't really have that here...although we do have one girl that is skating in Junior Worlds, but not for the US

fsk8r · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2011, 02:30:10 PM »

I know a junior dance couple who made the decision a couple of seasons ago to make a move to a better training facility. They were already at junior level but wanted better facilities/coaches. They went on their own as the younger one was 16, although it's been tough having to fend for themselves (you know the cooking and cleaning part of life). They've now just moved again to an overseas training facility just before Junior Worlds. But they didn't make the move until they were a high enough level to be getting JGP.

Equally I've heard of younger skaters who have parents who'll move around the country to a better training facilities.

icefrog · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2011, 06:20:40 PM »

Quote from: jumpingbeansmom on February 27, 2011, 12:38:40 PM

Yeah, we don't really have that here...although we do have one girl that is skating in Junior Worlds, but not for the US

By close by I mean 1 1/2 to 2 hours each way, and with some of the kids its the parents that feel they need the extra coaching. They would be totally fine with just the coaching staff at our rink, but thats just IMHO.

Isk8NYC · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2011, 06:44:23 PM »

At some coaching seminar I attended, a skater's parent told me that her daughter was one of a group of several skaters whose parents take turns car-pooling the kids to a rink about 4 hours away. They stayed at a hotel nearby the rink so the kids could skate all weekend and have lessons with the elite coaches. I can't remember if they did this every weekend or maybe one weekend/month.

During the week, they practice closer to home and take lessons with local coaches as well.

My cousin has a friend whose daughter was an international Pairs skater. The mom and DD relocated across the country to Colorado to train with the coaches there and her Pairs partner lived with them.

As for how to find them, it would be through camps, clinics and workshops. I remember one Olympic-coach saying that he didn't have a telephone for several years because people kept calling him day and night to set up lessons for their children. People can be pesty and that rarely wins people over.

drskater · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2011, 08:45:01 PM »

You should listen to Allison Manley's podcast (US Nationals) for this month. She did a very interesting interview with Jason Brown's Pro, who describes how she (the coach) was constantly struggling to "prove" that she could coach in the major leagues.

jumpingbeansmom · « **Reply #11 on:** February 28, 2011, 08:12:08 AM »

Quote from: icefrog on February 27, 2011, 06:20:40 PM

By close by I mean 1 1/2 to 2 hours each way, and with some of the kids its the parents that feel they need the extra coaching. They would be totally fine with just the coaching staff at our rink, but thats just IMHO.

I have seen this kind of thing...a girl at our rink was doing this...commuting to 2x a week to skate with one of the elite coaches-- maybe a 2 hour one way drive, and I am not sure it was worth it...they ended up not doing it anymore after about 9 months I think.

Doubletoe · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2011, 03:06:21 PM »

Coaches who are household names are not always household names because they are the best coaches. Sometimes it's because they are the best self-promoters. There are lots of coaches out there who are wonderful technicians and should actually be getting the credit for the good skating skills of those students who have big name coaches with them at competitions. They just aren't that interested in getting on TV.

Purple Sparkly · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2011, 03:37:45 PM »

Quote from: drskater on February 27, 2011, 08:45:01 PM

You should listen to Allison Manley's podcast (US Nationals) for this month. She did a very interesting interview with Jason Brown's Pro, who describes how she (the coach) was constantly struggling to "prove" that she could coach in the major leagues.

My thought is that all elite coaches begin as a local coach and have to prove their coaching ability. Even Olympic skaters have to prove they can coach high-level skaters. I will look up Allison's podcast for this later, I think it will be interesting. Thanks!

kssk8fan · « **Reply #14 on:** March 04, 2011, 10:51:25 PM »

Ryan Bradley has skated with the same coach since he was a little tyke. They both moved to Colorado from St. Joseph, MO. I think when you start coach hoping, things get messy. Unless you are moving for more ice time, better training conditions, etc... I think any coach can move up the ranks, especially now with the IJS.

twokidsskatemom · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2011, 01:46:49 AM »

Quote from: kssk8fan on March 04, 2011, 10:51:25 PM

Ryan Bradley has skated with the same coach since he was a little tyke. They both moved to Colorado from St. Joseph, MO. I think when you start coach hoping, things get messy. Unless you are moving for more ice time, better training conditions, etc... I think any coach can move up the ranks, especially now with the IJS.

Keegan Messing,skating tonight at Jr worlds, has had the same coach since he was small too. He also is from Alaska, and we dont have the same training chances as others.
jason Brown is also at Jr worlds :}

jumpingbeansmom · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2011, 07:26:19 AM »

Quote from: twokidsskatemom on March 05, 2011, 01:46:49 AM

Keegan Messing,skating tonight at Jr worlds, has had the same coach since he was small too. He also is from Alaska, and we dont have the same training chances as others.
jason Brown is also at Jr worlds :}

All good points, we locally have 3 skaters at Junior Worlds, with 3 different local coaches. I agree that coach hopping isn't necessarily a good thing.

Sk8tmum · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2011, 08:13:23 AM »

One of the marks of an excellent coach is when they acknowledge that they do need to add additional coaching to help a skater reach their potential, and then aid and assist in finding that additional coach. Yes, some skaters have reached the top levels with what would seem to be obscure coaches, but, these coaches had the ability to either a) coach the triples, L4 spins, etc , OR they had the intelligence and focus to find other coaches to help in that. The difficult part is where a coach is in over his/her head, and cannot admit it to him/herself or others.

drskater · « **Reply #18 on:** March 05, 2011, 12:40:29 PM »

Hmmmmm, this discussion makes me ponder the whole "chicken vs. egg" scenario. So many coaches are perfectly capable of coaching "elite" skaters, but they probably don't encounter such an athlete very often. For a lucky few coaches, a skater who has the talent, dedication, ambition, longevity, and the $$ resources can reach the top and elevate the coach with her/him. And suddenly that coach is an elite coach too!

Isk8NYC · « **Reply #19 on:** March 05, 2011, 10:55:44 PM »

Adding to the list of coaches and skaters who worked together to go all the way ... Sarah Hughes (OGM) and ~~Paula~~ Robin Wagner, right?

I have a coaching friend who is her skaters' coach, first and foremost. She's on their side, she teaches and prepares them for events. She sends them to carefully-chosen experts for the things she feels someone else can do better, such as ballroom dancing, strength/conditioning training, the male side of pairs skating, and jumps. The skaters do camps and/or clinics as well.

MadMac · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2011, 04:21:22 AM »

That was Robin Wagner w/ Sarah Hughes. Paula Wagener's the one with the choreography program -- Artistry In Motion, I think it's called.

davincisop · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2011, 10:58:39 PM »

I've met/know miss Paula! Yes she's known for the artistry in motion. Very very nice woman.

I love when I get to see her. My little sister unknowingly had a conversation with her at an ice show I was in saying "that's my big sister out there!". I found this out from miss Paula herself lol. She thought it was adorable.

Clarice · « **Reply #22 on:** March 07, 2011, 07:58:37 AM »

Paula Wagener (note the extra "e") wrote the Artistry in Motion course. She's great! We went to the same high school, and I took ballet from her at her mom's studio many, many moons ago.

blue111moon · « **Reply #23 on:** March 07, 2011, 08:00:51 AM »

Brian Boitano was with Linda Leaver his entire career as well.

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Author Topic: When and how do you decide to move a kid to a 'top level coach'?? (Read 6847 times)